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"Technological Universities" - window dressing?

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    #92
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    mariaalice wrote: »
    There is another factor at play as well you can't make people do a course just because they should, for example, there is a severe shortage of chefs the job dose not seem attractive because of the weekend working yet they would neve be unemployed and lots of opportunity for traveling.

    But this severe shortage of chefs is a homemade problem. It's a high-pressure environment, anti-social hours and split shifts and the vast majority of employers try to rip you off at every given opportunity while the average pay as chef is not great for the work you do.
    According to an article in the journal a commis in year 4 makes 25k.


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    #93
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,373 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    LirW wrote: »
    But this severe shortage of chefs is a homemade problem. It's a high-pressure environment, anti-social hours and split shifts and the vast majority of employers try to rip you off at every given opportunity while the average pay as chef is not great for the work you do.
    According to an article in the journal a commis in year 4 makes 25k.

    However, they would never be unemployed.


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    #94
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    These technological universities are a swizz - a university requires a level of investment in teaching and facilities that are a quantum above the current I.T's. I see nothing to suggest that funding will be forthcoming.

    “University” and “institute of technology” are fairly broad terms.

    Part of the what’s driving this, even after the elevation of STEM, is snobbery towards “technical” education in Ireland.

    Should CalTech, Virginia Tech or MIT in the US crave “university” status?


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    #95
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    mariaalice wrote: »
    However, they would never be unemployed.

    Chefs and long time hospitality workers are a different breed and many don't cut it. The burn-out rates are absolutely insane in hospitality.
    And I can't blame them, a nice 40h work week is an illusion for many.

    No point in having an industry where you'll always have a job when there's a reason why there are always a lot of jobs. It's a field littered with horrible employers, illegal work practices and there's also a reason why drug use in this trade is rampant.


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    #96
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Cordell


    There is no snobbery in STEM and they can't be elevated enough. I would rather question an University that offers art courses rather than one offering STEM. I'm not saying that, for example, the art degrees are useless (which they are) but the engineers do actually study for their degrees.


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    #97
    knipex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    donaghs wrote: »
    “
    Should CalTech, Virginia Tech or MIT in the US crave “university” status?

    They all do have university status..


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    #98
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    donaghs wrote: »
    Part of the what’s driving this, even after the elevation of STEM, is snobbery towards “technical” education in Ireland.

    We can only promote STEM so much — for simple reason that most Irish students don't have the maths skills to do these courses. By far the most popular science subject for the Leaving Cert is biology, probably because it doesn't require maths.

    Close to two in five Irish students gets less than 200 points in the Leaving Cert. Like it or not, they need career options as well, and are likely to be better suited to a vocational than an academic track.


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    #99
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Cordell wrote: »
    There is no snobbery in STEM and they can't be elevated enough. I would rather question an University that offers art courses rather than one offering STEM. I'm not saying that, for example, the art degrees are useless (which they are) but the engineers do actually study for their degrees.


    Not sure what you mean. I was referring the fact that STEM subjects have received lots of promotion recently, which is a good thing, to make people both technologically aware and employable in the modern world.

    But, Irish society still has a lingering snobbery and suspicion about “technical” education. Computer scientists and engineers may do well, but they are not a proper “profession”. And as for “trades” like electricians...

    The NIHE were modelled on technological colleges in the UK and Europe. They achieved university status (DCU, UL). And being proper universities , they can now offer the full range of arts degree and other esoteric subjects like gender studies: https://www.dcu.ie/courses/Postgraduate/salis/MA-Sexuality-Studies.shtml

    So they are no longer mere “technical” colleges.


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    #100
    GreenandRed
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭GreenandRed


    'Irish society still has a lingering snobbery and suspicion about “technical” education. Computer scientists and engineers may do well, but they are not a proper “profession”.'

    What part of Irish 'society' think like that other than the part that think it's 1950?


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    #101
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users Posts: 4,421 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    GreenandRed wrote: »
    'Irish society still has a lingering snobbery and suspicion about “technical” education. Computer scientists and engineers may do well, but they are not a proper “profession”.'

    What part of Irish 'society' think like that other than the part that think it's 1950?

    I think it still does but you need to be clear about the distinction between status and power.

    Technical courses are low on status but high on power.
    Arts courses are low on power but high on status.

    Status alone won't do it, neither will power.


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    #102
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,373 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    GreenandRed wrote: »
    'Irish society still has a lingering snobbery and suspicion about “technical” education. Computer scientists and engineers may do well, but they are not a proper “profession”.'

    What part of Irish 'society' think like that other than the part that think it's 1950?

    Who cares what others think if someone is making a college carees dicision on what others think it will only lead to unhappness, listned to a very intersting interview with the comedian and doctor Adam Kay about this subject the unspoken pressures to do medicine because of their background or the school they went to. These things are not snobbery its cultural. There are medical and legal familys going back generations which puts huge pressure on people not to be the first to break that tradition.


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    #103
    GreenandRed
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭GreenandRed


    ToddyDoody wrote: »
    I think it still does but you need to be clear about the distinction between status and power.

    Technical courses are low on status but high on power.
    Arts courses are low on power but high on status.

    Status alone won't do it, neither will power.

    Status and power are overrated and won't pay the bills. Even now but year on year technology will make existing jobs obsolete, so in that regard a tech job might have power involved.


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    #104
    GreenandRed
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭GreenandRed


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Who cares what others think if someone is making a college carees dicision on what others think it will only lead to unhappness, listned to a very intersting interview with the comedian and doctor Adam Kay about this subject the unspoken pressures to do medicine because of their background or the school they went to. These things are not snobbery its cultural. There are medical and legal familys going back generations which puts huge pressure on people not to be the first to break that tradition.

    Also pursuing an education in somehing that you're 'good at' before something you have an interest and want to learn more more about mightn't be a great idea.


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