Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388301#Comment_119388301

All bullocks were hung at between 345 and 395 DW this year, average 377kg. All 28/29 months. They were 470-525kg live weight at housing in November. Silage only, then grass, then grass and 3kg meal for a month or 2. What should I have done with them?

They fact of the matter is the majority of dairy beef weanlings for sale in Mar/April are sub 350kgs. How can a 24 month limit benefit them?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388261#Comment_119388261

40 euros a bale seems a little high.

I don’t know how anyone makes money buying yearlings unless they are a serious judge of stock, have good land, have access to cheap feed and also married well

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388352#Comment_119388352

At that DW I’d say you’re doing everything right with them. But if you were forced to kill them at 24 months old then it shouldn’t be too difficult to achieve either. The 3kgs of meal you gave for a month or 2 could have been given to them 5 months earlier. They’d have been fit to kill then by 23-24 months old instead. They would have been 60-70 kgs dw lighter so you’d have a smaller cheque coming home but if you worked out what you’d have saved on your silage and grazing per head, and the head start you’ll have on their replacements, you’d probably still have made the same amount of profit per acre of land.

And this would be all achieved while looking to the general public like you’ve reduced your carbon emissions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388352#Comment_119388352

If you had a got them away sooner you would have got a better base

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388359#Comment_119388359

€40 per bale is certainly not high unless it’s poor quality silage. The majority of decent silage is costing mid €30’s and upwards this year with top quality silage costing not far off €45 a bale to make.

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388420#Comment_119388420

I usually aim for May-June killing (~27 month) but was a bit later this year as thought the price was rising 😳. I aim for then to get the highest base price generally and also get a good early bonus on the AA/HE's. There's usually 30-40c base price difference between Jan and May so that has always but me off it. Would 500kg cattle finish on good silage and 3kg for 2 months?

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388431#Comment_119388431

Yes agreed, but thats still at 27-28 months, not 24 months.

Siamsa Sessions

Apologies for sounding like a life-coach, but if you've been doing what you're doing for a few years now and it's leaving a margin, then you must be doing something right.

Longevity and time are the only real judges. Doesn't mean you shouldn't change, but tinkering around the edges with what you have is a better bet than turning the whole lot upside down and starting again.

Leave "disruptive technologies" to Silicon Valley.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388352#Comment_119388352

At them weights it's only a matter of watching you costs. Question every cost, is it necessary and will it be of benefit to you or will you be giving free beef to Larry &co.

You buy as weanlings and carry little risk or deaths. Silage is costing me 35-37/ bale this year. If it's high DM it's cheap feed. Your bullocks are a bit heavier than mine at housing, however I buy stores ( lightest ones at that) and hang in the 320-350kg weight bracket.

But it's all about cost and margin. One thing many forget is cheap weight gain at grass is where the money is made and keeping you winter coats low by feeding silage only is the key to profitability.

Hard to move grass cattle and earlier than mid June unless you feed them over the winter or from the minute they hit grass. However a wet April will mean land is ploughed l.

Feeding 2kg/ head for 100 days over the winter will cost 80-100 euro next winter. Most bagged nuts are made up of fillers.

If you cattle were Friesians they would have a enraged 1750 with an initial cost of 250-350 as weanlings.

At a grass margin of 14-1500 euro if you did not have a net margin of 700+ I be flabbergasted.

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389035#Comment_119389035

All the cattle I killed this year were bought as yearlings in Mar/Apr last year around 310-350kgs. I bought no weanlings in 2020. 14 x FR for avg 640, 12 x HE for 880, and 9 LM for 750. The LMs and the last FRs went yesterday, the LMs made serious weights - but they took a long time to finish. Net margin on them overall was 550 which was more than I ever got, but next year could be very different if the factories have control back. Edit: sold 6 HE's as stores in early March for 1250 to pay for fert, overall margin would have been higher if I kept them.

I bought a 20 weanlings at the backend of last year and they're doing fine as 18 month olds, but haven't added to them yet. I will do so over the coming months. Probably won't buy any weanlings this backend.

farmertipp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386800#Comment_119386800

it would be interesting to look into that guys finances

Silverdream

I wonder will they force all these Dairy or Beef calves to be slaughtered under 24 months even 18 months in cases. It would be a way of reducing the national herd without culling Cows

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389807#Comment_119389807

No they will not. However they are bringing in a sub 24 months slaughter premium and ABP is proposing a 20 c/ kg on cattle averaging 24 months with an upper limit of 26 months.

However cattle killed off grass at 18-20 months will struggle with weight and grades.

lalababa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388352#Comment_119388352

I'm very dubious about the proposed 24 month slaughtering . Doesn't fit atall with the (also proposed) more extensive farming approach. I suppose they could do it in tandem with stock/set ups that would more easily lend themselves to quick finishing (ie intensive). But , no, doesn't sit right with me atall. Sure they'll be pumping the ground with fertiliser and pumping the animals with meal/ration.

Still I'm not an expert in animal gas expulsion versus intensive imputs versus age.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119379222#Comment_119379222

http://twitter.com/Paskir/status/1551978907787825153

Now Germany is in the firing line re fertiliser. But also now plant protection sprays included.

Unprecedented times of rule on agriculture. Oh covid we miss you..

Silverdream

Prime time on rte had a debate on the emissions this evening

https://www.rte.ie/player/series/prime-time/SI0000000825?epguid=IH000413019

Anto_Meath

I have see it here a few times, you would have a 24 month old bullock that would look fit and stand in fine with the 29/30 old lads but whenever they are hung up they would always let you down, always a grade or fat score behind where you would be thinking & would kill out 2-3 % below the others. My late dad would call them watery, he'd tell you cattle don't firm up until a month of so after they get their two teeth & in fairness from what I ve seen over the years he wasn't wrong. And I have seen it here too the 1 guaranteed to let you down is the Smx.. there is no power at all in them at 24 months.

Base price

If anyone thinks that they can get a 24 month old bucket reared dairy/traditional cross bred bull or bullock factory fit without intensive meal feeding i.e. an increasing level of feed to ad lib for 70/90 days then they are just fooking delusional.

Neddyusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392321#Comment_119392321

Agreed.

A few rare exceptions though, such as a July born AAxFr.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392321#Comment_119392321

And that's with buying the right one.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392321#Comment_119392321

Completely delusional .

Most cattle don’t come into their own until they are for two and a half year old. From then on you will have serious stock

The cattle killed at 24 months are only stores .

Silverdream

I don't think Eamon Ryan & Co. give a shite about whether the cattle are fit or not. They just want to get the Cull regardless of the economics or even the absolute waste of resources of killing animals not fit for slaughter

farmertipp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393177#Comment_119393177

absolutely. and they will keep coming back for more because they are barking up the wrong tree and won't hear of upsetting their support base by asking them to do their bit to save the planet! most of these were unemployed in the past including the senior cabbage head himself

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393193#Comment_119393193

The corporate tax windfalls have the country ruined in this regard, on target for 18 billion this year, its propping up the economy, but the fallout if the above was to be drastically reduce our halved would leave the 2008/09 crash look like a picnic, a 3 billion hole at the time in tax take from reduced stamp duty was enough to have the imf knocking on the door imagen a 10 billion odd hole in the government budget it would be game over....

If and when the above happens whatever government is in power at the time would be dam glad of our agricultural export sector but present day its seen as non-consequiental because of the above

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393422#Comment_119393422

That’s the thing, they’re so thick. The one indigenous industry that we have and they want to run it into the ground by using questionable methane emission calculations. All them lunatics in the Green Party calling for cuts to agriculture need a bucket of water over the head first to wake them up.

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393490#Comment_119393490

Make sure to boil that water first.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393422#Comment_119393422

Nail on the head. It shows how little the environmental crew understand when they whinge on Twitter that the Govt is giving in to lobbying from the IFA to lower emissions targets. The Govt might listen to IFA, but their main goal is jobs and exports. Food is a multi-billion export industry and provides massive employment - that's what the Govt care about, not the oul poor mouth act put on by Tim Cullinan.

As Bill Clinton said, it's the economy stupid. If the Greens don't focus on that aspect, then they'll get even less done than they think.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388420#Comment_119388420

But you would be carrying more heads over a given time period and putting more inputs in.........how does that square with less GHGs?.........I'm beginning to wonder if there's a seaweed Baron dictating public policy or the merchants have new methane reducing feed additives wrapped up somewhere youll simply have to buy....or else😅

The age limits thing makes no sense for a producer only more work and more inputs for questionable if any gain imho

In terms of the heifers I wasn't hoping to get them to 550 kg btw, I think you missed that (I probably didnt make the point very well and conflated it with the benefits of letting the dairy x bullock get to weight without any inputs but I was replying to a poster that asked a direct question), anyway those heifers get there handy enough without inputs and they sell to a buyer looking to put them in calf.....has worked well for me

I've done the sums on a lower age limit and for me it's more heads, more work and more inputs and upgrade facilities just to be back where I am now .... and after what time period, I'm not sure given the unpredictability of the market + plus that's more emissions so they will probably be putting pressure on me to stop it before I've finished paying back....

I'm sick of dancing to the industry tune tbh....we've done beef bullocks here for decades, they get to where its profitable for me off our grass after around the 26 month mark with little or no inputs (about 2/3 months after for most of them)..... for our place/facilities its the most cost effective, least work intensive and the real kicker (given what is supposedly driving this) most environmentally friendly way of doing it (given less heads and less inputs) afaics

If every participant is forced into turning them over at lower age limits I can see it meaning lower prices and more GHGs ....that if they actually bother to calculate the effect of inputs and numbers as everyone tries to follow the piper.....why don't they publish a proper analysis of what lower age limits might mean if everyone does follow the tune or talk about the points I've made.....if I'm an eejit I'll hold my hands up and admit I'm wrong like a man but all I've read to date is data on "efficiencies" and I have a deep distrust of efficiencies when they are applied to what I do as more often than not its not efficient for my pocket or workload.....if someone would explain in plain English to this moron here how a 22/24 month limit might benefit me without big risk intetms of investment and possibly get beaten with a stick for more emissions down the line I'm genuinely interested......why not work with nature and the natural way the product matures.....the other approach is genetically engineer them to be like the frankenstein chickens .....tbh I think its bad in every way for the farmers if they are forced to go down the road of even younger age limits.

And I'm grand with lads trying to flip them at 22/24 months etc if it suits them, to each their own...but I'm not grand with being forced to do it myself.....and tbh I think if everyone is forced to do it...then that won't be good for the lad that's happy to do it at the younger age limits too..

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388359#Comment_119388359

40 euros is cheap this year …factor in fertiliser and full cost of making bale

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393490#Comment_119393490

Rumours of greens pulling out of govt if they don’t get there way …..not best timing but if it wipes them out maby we could live with it ….the silence and lack of action from our farm lobby groups is shocking ….all the green crack heads and farmer bashing groups/individuals are getting a free run ….why aren’t the Ifa et all taking these on ….good time for head Ifa man …Someone you’d want in your corner going head to head against them but v poor in a debate or in front of a camera