Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

K.G.

If you really want to see how much we are being hung out to dry and that there is an agenda to cut agri emissions to protect the lifestyle of people an look after the interests of big business then the Sunday Times edititoral laid it all out for everyone to see.it was a stupid(and I don't use the word lightly) uniformed load of nonsense full of sweeping statements and tabloid headlines which clearly is trying to isolate agri from everyone else.2 statements in particular where he states lower Irish production would not be replaced by South american(rainforest) production and would be replaced by more efficient production.i d like to see him back up these statements

farmertipp

in fairness who reads the Sunday Times? last kick of a dying mule. aren't they laying off half the 'journalists ' working there

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119383656#Comment_119383656

In todays Irish Examiner there is an article from a Senior Medical Officer in the Department of Public Health extolling the benefits of lab grown meat !!!! . You would think that a senior official working in the Irish health system would have more pressing concerns than trying to foist this on humanity

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119384102#Comment_119384102

You are looking at 12 euros a burger there

Siamsa Sessions

We might be about to leave the sanity sphere altogether.

If I understand it, some people don't want livestock farming. They want to reduce the large amounts of burger material we already have on hand, and then replace it with burger material built in a lab instead?

Seems like it's a case of, "I want to knock down your house and then I will build my own house instead."

And the virtue-signallers in Govt think this is a great plan.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119384245#Comment_119384245

Its all about the land as usual.... Farmers are in the way.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119384547#Comment_119384547

I'd say you're giving them too much credit there. What you suggest would mean there's a grand plan in place. But policy-makers and academics don't usually think that far ahead and neither do they have that kind of ambition.

Back to the extra calves: if these wannabe masters-of-the-universe want to replace livestock with lab jelly/meat, then they'll need oat/almond milk to ramp up at the same pace, coz cow milk comes hand in hand with dairy-beef. But as above, I don't know if these people understand that a cow needs to get pregnant and have a calf to produce milk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385009#Comment_119385009

The Israelis are looking in to that https://www.embryoventures.com/startup-news/biomilk-sustainable-production-of-high-value-dairy-products

The drive for these lab solutions is mainly based on the emissions of conventional methods.

Surely the only future for conventional farming is go carbon neutral. The cuts could be an opportunity not a threat.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119384131#Comment_119384131

At 12 euros or 12 cents I don’t want them.

It does seem bizarre that a public health specialist can promote what is largely an untested food source . Very few know what is in this stuff .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386800#Comment_119386800

It’s just muscle tissue.

From an emissions perspective he should be advocating local produce and a balanced diet

Birdnuts

Whats bugging me most about all this is that it appears extensive beef production here is being targeted the most compared to other agri output - despite the fact that it is by a long way the most biodiversity/water quality friendly type of farming we have in this country!!

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385286#Comment_119385286

It is carbon neutral

alps

Only source of carbon is what we are digging out of the ground and putting up in the sky..

This carbon never dissappears.

The only reason food production is being targetted is that we are the only removers of carbon.

If you remove livestock you lower the amount of carbon in the atmosphere.

If you lower the amount of carbon through agri reductions you can continue to burn fossil fuels up and until the fossil fuels emissions have filled the reduction by food production reduction.

Then your fucked, because from then on youbjust have an increasing concentration of carbon...no way to reduce it...no food.

This means that if agri reductions go to 30%, the fossil fuel reduction will be less severe..thus increasing global warming..

The higher the food production redu tions go, the greater the fossil fuel driven global warming we will have...

ButbGreens onlybcare about votes

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386864#Comment_119386864

It is a so called food being produced in a laboratory. For years we were told that processed food was bad but now that we have the ultimate processing on a Frankenstein scale we have Doctors promoting it .

By the way if you read the article you would have got the writer’s gender correct .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386942#Comment_119386942

Well if she is a health expert and she is promoting it based on lower emissions it just shows that she believes it is better for emissions reduction which may not be the case.

My point is if we upped the game and delivered low emitting farm produce backed by science then your lab based alternatives would lose there usp

Glensk do a carbon neutral yoghurt etc

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387005#Comment_119387005

Where does carbon neutral produce fit in the supermarket’s business model? Same as their token organic stuff?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387108#Comment_119387108

There is a good line of organic now in most supermarkets. Milk, butter, meat, eggs, fruit and veg

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387241#Comment_119387241

Its a tiny niche market. What matters is what the masses are eating while watching Love Island.

Silverdream

I don't understand the carbon/greenhouse sums of the whole thing. Firstly if you cut the amount of meat produced here it will end up being produced somewhere else. The demand for meat would still exist. So while good aul Irelande cuts production the usual suspect cash in i.e. the Yanks, Auzzi's and Chinese, all 3 of which don't have anything like enough good land for livestock and can't see 5 years go by now without droughts, fires or floods and cattle dropping dead like flies. Even most parts of mainland Europe are becoming unsuitable for livestock with 40C+ temperatures during the summer how the f%% can cattle live in that.

What will eat the grass here if they cut the livestock numbers? Is it how they want the place to go into wilderness?

carrollsno1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386942#Comment_119386942

Im on a very high protein diet at the moment for the training regime im on 200g plus/day its a tough job to get that from food alone especially in my current situation. I wouldnt be gone on the idea of taking shakes or the like but id use a fair bit of the Avonmore protein milk to get the numbers up but the one thing that always sticks our is that if im late going to the shop to pick it up all the real milk ones are gone and its all the shite pro-oats left which i wouldnt dream of touching.

How the vocal vegan MINORITY think were all just going to change our diets to suit them is bizzare, wasnt there photos of vegan aisles fully stocked while the normal aisles were empty during the pandemic as people wouldnt touch the stuff too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387271#Comment_119387271

The way things are going carbon neutral food will be in big demand.

The consumer can read the science. The last few years have seen the worst wild fires. Farms are literally green field sites that can offer additional solutions around solar, fertiliser reduction, better use of grass, hedgerows, animal efficiency etc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386886#Comment_119386886

I doubt it. But the pitch with all these products is less emissions

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387370#Comment_119387370

Carbon neutral food will never be in big demand until it is cheaper than current “normal” food.

There’s a very vocal minority of people making a lot of noise about it but the majority of customers buy their food based on one parameter only, price.

You can call it home grown, organic, vegan, anything you like, but the majority of consumers currently buy on price and price alone.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387626#Comment_119387626

You are right about price. There are a significant cohort of people that don’t care what they eat and just shop on price. This is partially down to the cost of living crisis but also down to people not caring about where their food comes from within that cohort. A lot of the milk sold in the German discounters comes from over the border.

I try to buy Irish veg, fruit, dairy, meat and eggs. It can be a real challenge to find Irish apples and veg etc.

The origin of this forum was the 1.5 million dairy calves. If they can’t be exported then how can we continue to reduce emissions.

The calf to beef guys are losing money even at a 4.80 base price so does that mean more subsidies and who will pay for that and what will be the conditions?

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387757#Comment_119387757

You're right - this thread is about the extra calves but everything in agriculture is related to the environment and climate. That's always been the case, even if some of the Green Party think they are the ones who made the link just a few years ago.

Two things:

(1) Did you really say "The consumer can read the science" above? First, why should they? Let's be generous and assume they're all specialists in different areas, so why expect them to be science-literate as well? Are you financially-literate and do your own tax return? Are you a mechanically-literate and can change oil/fuel filters, brake pads, etc. on your car?

(2) I see just this morning that the narrative is changing on Twitter now with some self-titled environmentalists. The story now is that Ireland's emissions do not have any real effect on the global environment, but if we do whatever brain-fart Éamon Ryan comes up with next, then we'll be showing "leadership" and China/Russia/India/USA/Brazil will copy us. These countries mistake us for Iceland, if we ever even come up on their agenda. Ireland is to Europe what Inis Mor is to Ireland, never mind the billion-people countries like China and Russia. It is typical D4 arrogance from the likes of Ryan to suggest those big countries, nay empires, would copy Ireland (or him).

Back to calves: not all us calf-to-beef farmers are losing money at 4.80. And obviously, looking at the financial side of things gives only a very narrow picture of farming. Having said that, I'm thinking of keeping a few of the heifer calves I bought this year and putting them in calf in June/July 2023. It might be something of a hedge against future beef prices. There's a few Belgian Blues, Speckle Park, and Simmental heifers shaping up well. Obviously, this is the opposite of the Teagasc model, but then isn't diversifying away from the standard what we're all told to do!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388138#Comment_119388138

Fair play to your work ethic and ingenuity. There are lads cribbing about having to disbud, squeeze and feed calves.

I don’t understand how fellas can’t make a margin at 4.80.

The Green Party lack the backbone to work with farmers to really help them maximise potential around solar, fertiliser, efficiencies etc.

The average individual may not that scientifically literate however they will understand that the climate crisis is real. Rampant wild fires and consistently rising temperatures year on year

smallbeef

I said that I did ok this year at 4.80 actually if you can read. The upcoming wintering costs are going to be higher than ever - bales cost €40+ to make. Factories lost control of the market this year but I wouldn't be banking on even 4.80 next year. Then where is your margin.

I have a full time job and stated the FACT that there is alot of work in rearing calves for a very low margin. Weanling to beef is less work but the risk is higher due to the purchase price of the weanling, inputs involved, and of course the volatility of the beef market.

Now p*ss off. I must go check on my 18 month old ~400kg dairy beefs. Need to check them daily for fear they get over-fat, they're on straw at the moment to slow them down a bit. Shows what you know! As I said p*ss off!

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387370#Comment_119387370

Yet all evidence shows that the consumer will not.

That's a pity but doesn't change it.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388138#Comment_119388138

As a calf to beef farmer I’d certainly be happy to continue what I’m doing if there was a base price of €4.80. I’d never be a millionaire out of it but I wouldn’t be losing money either.

I also find some of the posts on the 30 month age limit a bit strange too. My dairy calf to beef herd would consist of mainly hex with an odd AAX or six thrown in too. I’d have majority of them gone to the factory by December or January when they’d be around 22-23 months old, normally averaging around 280-290 kgs deadweight with minimal meal feeding. Last year they came into the shed the 20th November and were hanging in the first week of the new year. They got 2kgs of meal on top of about 5kgs of beet per day for their time in the shed so about half a ton of beet costing €25 per head and 110kgs of hi maize meal costing €35 per head. Fat scores were all 3+ and 4-.

I don’t understand this narrative that cattle have to be kept past 30 months to be fit to kill, with one poster above hoping to have heifers at 550kg live weight at 30 months. I don’t want to sound patronising but there’s something major wrong with your grazing layout if that’s the target live weight at 30 months. And certainly there’s no money being made on an animal that has to be kept that long to get to that weight.

There are men around here that keep dairy cross stock to 30 months on a regular basis but they’d have them hanging at 370- 400 kgs dead weight so they’d be 750kgs plus live-weight and minimal meal feeding to her to that too. They’d be turning a few pound on them at that weight but there would be no issue having them gone a few months earlier either and fat scores would still be good enough.

Reducing the age limit to decrease our so called carbon emissions should be welcomed by farmers as it’s really a cop out for us allowing us to appear to be doing something without actually reducing the herd.

Danzy

I agree with you Siasmsa but China did copy Ireland on a very important economic aspect for it

It is Why Xi drove past Dublin for Shannon when he visited.

The Shannon free trade zone was a ground breaking idea and has totemic status in China.

China will do what benefits China, it's repeatedly shown it has no interest in climate change.

It will use western tech if useful.

Carbon output globally is now all about Asia, Europe and North America have rapidly falling levels which are a significantly smaller.

Climate change will be won or lost in Asia, Europe and North America going net zero will soften Asian carbon output for only a few years.