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The kickstarter adventures of Sólás - solaswatches.com
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I really love the attention to detail with these watches and would love to support your campaign.
Please don't take this in a bad way but the one thing I will echo is the font is turning me off. I love the name 'Solas', I love the 'deartha in Eirinn' just can't get past the execution. Is that something you would re-visit pre-production? I fully respect the intention and it may appeal to a certain market. To me it's a blend of Comic Sans and the font on Inis perfume you get on Aer Lingus flights.
I'd love to see a mock up options with smaller text, maybe in a celtic style fine line calligraphy and a then just a plain non-serif font for comparison.
Don't worry about it - it's the internetz so there'll be people who end up saying "this looks like typical Chinese junk"...or an Argos Citizen :pac: (though Citizen make nice watches too - especially their Campanola line). I'm not putting your comment in with those kinds of comments at all btw - just saying that I did steel myself to be ready to get that kind of feedback
You see - I don't necessarily dislike that Inis perfume text either
- the font was something that I liked but I can tell you that indeed at the beginning I did explore a variety of fonts - the sans-serif "standard font" didn't appeal to me - to me it felt too cold. I know that there is a good reason that most watch brands just use a plain font (though I imagine Patek still paid oodles of money to a typographist to work on the minutiae of the typeface for any brand refresh).
Here's a defence of comic sans btw
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUCcObwIsOs
From various fonts (again that were free for commercial use) - the Celtic "book of Kells" typeface just didn't work - they were beautiful on the page but unreadable on a dial (especially as we are working in a mainly horizontal or curved plane and not a vertical one and we are dealing with small text on the dial already).
The custom one I used here after trying a variety of ones was one that spoke to me in terms of going beyond mere "statement of name" and embodies what this brand aims to be. The stylised S is one that I quite like actually and maybe someday I can pay a typographist to design a custom font for the brand but currently this is what I've chosen.
I do hear your concerns though - it kinda goes back to the date/no-date - if I have to choose between the two I'll choose what "I" want to see and trust in my own taste. If we go with a simple arial/helvetica font then what is Irish about this watch at all or different to the Argos Citizens? - I know the more "marmite" you go the more likely you will have people who don't share the same view on aventurine, choice of movement, date, indices, font etc. - so while trying to please many, I do need to please myself too. 0 -
You know what you're dead right. Put in your position I would do exactly the same. Do what you love, you can't be all things to everyone.Don't worry about it - it's the internetz so there'll be people who end up saying "this looks like typical Chinese junk"...or an Argos Citizen :pac: (though Citizen make nice watches too - especially their Campanola line). I'm not putting your comment in with those kinds of comments at all btw - just saying that I did steel myself to be ready to get that kind of feedback
You see - I don't necessarily dislike that Inis perfume text either - the font was something that I liked but I can tell you that indeed at the beginning I did explore a variety of fonts - the sans-serif "standard font" didn't appeal to me - to me it felt too cold. I know that there is a good reason that most watch brands just use a plain font (though I imagine Patek still paid oodles of money to a typographist to work on the minutiae of the typeface for any brand refresh).
Here's a defence of comic sans btw - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUCcObwIsOs
From various fonts (again that were free for commercial use) - the Celtic "book of Kells" typeface just didn't work - they were beautiful on the page but unreadable on a dial (especially as we are working in a mainly horizontal or curved plane and not a vertical one and we are dealing with small text on the dial already).
The custom one I used here after trying a variety of ones was one that spoke to me in terms of going beyond mere "statement of name" and embodies what this brand aims to be. The stylised S is one that I quite like actually and maybe someday I can pay a typographist to design a custom font for the brand but currently this is what I've chosen.
I do hear your concerns though - it kinda goes back to the date/no-date - if I have to choose between the two I'll choose what "I" want to see and trust in my own taste. If we go with a simple arial/helvetica font then what is Irish about this watch at all or different to the Argos Citizens? - I know the more "marmite" you go the more likely you will have people who don't share the same view on aventurine, chose of movement, date, indices, font etc. - so while trying to please many, I do need to please myself too.
For the record, that Inis stuff smells very decent. Missus David is a graphic designer and swears by their lotion :P
If you were to get in with Dublin Airport retail, the Kilkenny's and Avoca's of this world, you'd be onto a winner. My job means I do business with a lot of higher end North American-Irish clients who love nice things, this I reckon would be an easy sell.0 -
You know what you're dead right. Put in your position I would do exactly the same. Do what you love, you can't be all things to everyone.
For the record, that Inis stuff smells very decent. Missus David is a graphic designer and swears by their lotion :P
If you were to get in with Dublin Airport retail, the Kilkenny's and Avoca's of this world, you'd be onto a winner. My job means I do business with a lot of higher end North American-Irish clients who love nice things, this I reckon would be an easy sell.
Thanks - and yes I do agree - it's a "do what you love" project, not necessarily "most commercially lucrative" etc. - if it was I'd be using a cheaper (and much less controversial) dial , a quartz movement and generic case and trying to nab US tourists in the duty free (in terms of maximising revenue). I wouldn't have the energy to spend two years of my life (part time of course) doing something like that for no pay - that sounds like pure work, rather than a project of love and I'd probably hate watches by the end of it all
It's funny since actually I think us watch lovers are a pretty niche group of people - many/most people would baulk at spending 100 euro on a watch, never mind 10,000. And then trying to educate people on how aventurine is different to "glitter sprinkled on blue glass" or a micro-rotor vs a NH35a or even a quartz probably makes most people's eyes cloud over... so if they see a €549 watch in a store or that €99 quartz Irish souvenir watch I suspect Avoca and the likes will sell more of the €99 specials (nothing wrong with that either - customers should buy what they like )
Who knows though - maybe if this project goes well I can always show this to Avoca and their ilk and see if they might be interested in testing it in their stores.
...if nothing else I can always contact Argos too:D:D 0 -
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The way I see it is that strong opinions both ways means that you have a strong design. If everyone likes it then you either have a design masterpiece, or more likely, something fairly bland and generic. You need a niche on KS, and I think the movement should attract watch people, the Irish connection seems pretty unique - and the dial too of course.
I am trying to approach your site again but from the POV of a randomer, not somebody who came across it from boards - where a lot more detail and Q&A is possible.
I do kinda understand the negative feedback on mentioning Patek.
"Usually these types of micro-rotor movements are only found in Swiss brands costing in the thousands to tens of thousands of euro.".
I know what you're getting at, but Kickstarter is full of campaigns that name drop big brands, because they too have an automatic movement or whatever. This does read a bit like the standard "why spend so much on a Swiss watch when you can just buy the same thing direct from us?" that is all over KS.
A bit nit picky, but should "Dial diameter: 38mm" be the case diameter? And maybe include lug to lug measurements too. The latter is prob less important for the average buyer.
I had to google what Horween leather is - seems to be named after an American company? Might be worth being more specific here.
I do understand the Patek comment - I'd like to think that it is one of my only concessions to "marketability" (and perhaps the Irish music element) - I know it will raise a WIS's heckles to see that language - but as in my post to David above - for the average consumer looking at kickstarter we just don't have time to go through Buren/Universal Geneve micro-rotors (here's a new one released by them apparently):
https://www.ablogtowatch.com/universal-geneve-microtor-ug-101-is-every-mans-micro-rotor-watch/
https://www.chrono24.com/universalgenve/microtor--id9441373.htm
...but they may have heard of Patek (probably not even Piaget ha) - and may think "oh, that's a posh brand - well why does that brand use it then?"
I'm counting on the fact that people who are looking for an affordable microrotor watch do not need to be told why it's special/different. People who don't really know much about watches have to be told quickly - because they won't stay around while I lovingly go down through details that are of interest to us WISers but of no interest to them besides potentially "huh it's pretty". So name dropping Patek is the shortcut to that. The link to the blog goes into further detail into the history for people who are interested.
The website I think really is more aimed at watch newbies who might want a pretty watch. I am confident I'm not compromising myself like those tourbillon watch projects which compare their 500-1000 euro tourbillons to 20,000 euro ones while ignoring the plethora of other 500-1000 euro Chinese movement options available. Right now - there really isn't much out there in the affordable microrotor watch category other than the Starlight - I believe it was going to be the only one available until a Chinese company released a 500 euro model (using the Hangzhou 5000A too) at the end of 2019 :mad::pac::eek::o
I've updated the info on the dial/lugs - thanks for picking that up - actually someone else mentioned it to me that they thought the case size at 40mm would be too big if dial is 38mm.
Updated the Horween info too - the Americans will love that it's a US/Irish piece 0 -
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I'd agree with Eoin''s points there.
I'd also add more info on the finishing and machining of the movement, the plates and machining on show in the Starlight are the likes I've which I'd expect to see on a Geneva movement.
The love and attention to detail underneath the back sapphire more of a draw to me on this watch than the dial, altho I must say that's a draw too
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This kind of thing should appeal to any buyer, and sets you a bit apart from the watches that have a display case back to show a bog standard Miyota or Seiko movement, that is not all that pretty.
You are correct - Patek out and rationale in... In fact in the original draft copy of the text I had longer and more in-depth paragraphs going through each feature differentiating between what is "manual wind" (the beautiful ALS 3/4 plates), "automatic" and how micro-rotors are an amalgamation of both.
On writing up the website I found putting in all the explanation to be a bit too long/a slog for non-watch enthusiasts to get through so cut it down. Looking at it again I think you're right that I cut out the wrong bit (the rationale) and left in the name dropping which doesn't impress the type of person I actually am trying to attract with the watch.I'd agree with Eoin''s points there.
I'd also add more info on the finishing and machining of the movement, the plates and machining on show in the Starlight are the likes I've which I'd expect to see on a Geneva movement.
The love and attention to detail underneath the back sapphire more of a draw to me on this watch than the dial, altho I must say that's a draw too
Hangzhou do really good finishing for their price point I have to say. Now the Geneva high-end stuff will all be hand finished etc. But visually I agree that it looks nice.
You're right that this is a key selling point of the movement/watch - if the point of the microrotor is to get the rotor out of the way so the movement can be seen you better make sure the movement looks nice then...
But to be honest - while the perlage and cotes de geneve you find on the Hangzhou is pretty - those would be the only two finishing elements you can name - unfortunately at this price there are no blued screws, chatons, anglage, black polish to speak of - I've decided to let the photos speak for themselves for now rather than give a whole section over to finishing.
...and in a way it's because I know I can do better (just need funds and seed money from a successful campaign to improve on the next one). I don't necessarily want to ever compete with Patek - but I want to be looking more at the Omega's of the world (in terms of purely finishing) and maybe even beating them.Love the look of the watch, slim always works better than chunky imho!
I'm afraid I fall into the group that doesnt care for the typeface. The "irish" typefaces never look sophisticated to me especially shrunk down. If it were me I would look at some of the "elven" fonts (available for free online) as they share the slim sleekness of the watch's design while being elegant and also very celtic looking.
The salmon strap doesnt look great in those pics, but the horween does!!
I know from other crafts I'm involved with that taking pics that close up of anything will show every crazy tiny imperfection like it was a huge error... so I'm mightily impressed with the workmanship on the parts! Really impressive.
The thing with thin fonts is that often they can become hard to read when it's already small text on a dial/caseback (in my opinion).
See Glashutte O here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=glashutte&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=ALeKk03NLJxYtLlX5SPw3Z5veRiTbV5HvA:1590428304667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjruY-Rx8_pAhVoRhUIHaUeDXoQ_AUoAXoECBQQAw&biw=1920&bih=966
I wanted the text to be legible (since I'm using Irish words here - one of the selling points of the watch) while retaining an Irish flavour. You missed my wife saying she hoped the Irish jig music I used should be faster to be more fun (cultural differences on what it means to be Oirish or Irish ) 0 -
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Nylah Red Pope wrote: »I think the next watch you make should be call the "iománaí ar an díog"
The main thing at this stage is to produce a product and not just go round in an endless cycle of redesign to appease everyone. I didnt like the font initially but it grew on me an does suit the aesthetic, it grows on you.
Grows on you...hopefully not like some kind of fungus. :pac:
I actually haven't heard of a hurler on the ditch before - that's an idiom to keep in the backpocket (where wallets are not stored).
Oh yeah - the product itself can't really change at this point now - it will be minimal things like removing the date window completely (I felt the frame was too thick and they couldn't make it thinner) - so removing it should make the "no-date" crowd people happier potentially as it'll be the blue/black dial dissolving into the black date wheel...while the date people will still have their date feature.
Non-public information (until now) - I am trying to squeeze another 0.2mm out of the watch though in terms of height - 9.6mm rather than 9.8 - but that can't be guaranteed yet. But yes we are reworking the custom case mould for the watch one last time to push for this.
On the flip side - now that it's starting to go public I've gotten my first review request from an instagrammer/Youtuber 0 -
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I did see that comment - thought it was a little strange though - on the sólás website isn't the youtube video of the watch just halfway down the page along with a gallery full of photos of the whole watch (those are the same photos I put up on instagram).
Hangzhou 5000A isn't a secret (especially if they check the Chinese Mechanical forum where I've been discussing it already and it's on the front page there ) Hangzhou are a watch movement manufacturer - they do so many movements for various microbrands, mushroom brands and bigger brick and mortar brands too.
edit: though I'll add in a photo at the very start and build it into the opening photo.0 -
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I've a Gaelic name too (semi-jokingly) - Dónal McBhú since I was called Daniel growing up - my father calls himself a "daily Irish speaker" and came up with the McBhú surname transliteration - I think if I reveal that on the Kickstarter page people would say I'm taking the mick
We've been had! :pac:
In all seriousness though, I think the watch looks great. I love the salmon strap, won't be for everyone but hey. Well done for doing something you love.
I think a lot of the comments you're getting about the date being out of place are actually to do with the bezel/outline around it - it looks much thicker than the other pieces on the watch (which could even be because its square-ish), and it sort of draws a lot of focus away from the rest of the face.0 -
On the date window - I agree - it bothered me enough that I've asked them to remove it from the last crack at the production version (where we're aiming for 9.6mm).
It is thicker than the renders also. Think I bumped into a technical limitation (both suppliers who provided prototypes had this).
In a way I think I am trying to balance appealing to general public (font - which hey I like ) and WIS - (no member of the general public cares one iota if it's 9.8 or 9.6mm) - finding that balance is key. I care about those 0.2mm though! 0 -
*smacks head* - you know what I've realised? people saying they can't see the photos of the watch...are probably viewing the website through their mobile browser (which makes complete sense)....
...all this time I've been working on layout on the desktop version - of course most people nowadays use their mobile. I see on the mobile version the photo gallery doesn't immediately show you a thumbnail of the full watch... the fact that I put the full size watch up in background image doesn't really matter because on a mobile screen it's still too small to see the watch clearly
Need to revamp the webpage I think to help mobile users accessibility.0 -
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Btw - this is what I mean by the desktop/mobile divide:
What I see on my desktop - (how can the watch be missed now)
What others see on their mobile
As a result of people saying they're scrolling too far without seeing the watch I've bumped up the youtube video and photo gallery directly up to the top. I guess I had initially thought that people would want to hear about the background, my ideas, inspiration, history...and fair enough - they just want to see if the watch interests them or not - that's absolutely fair.0 -
John Hutton wrote: »As someone who knows very little about watches I view this as a fancy (anything that's not battery is fancy to me) watch that will go well with suit, for work etc with cool looking moving bits that you can see on the back that normally you'd be looking at paying more to have, and the watch has a cool backstory to tell people if they ask about it. I think it looks nice, it is different but not in your face or anything.
I gather from what OP has written that im in the audience he is aiming it at. The only "problem" I see is that I like how it looks, others may not.
Heya John - just to say definitely I do hope the general public likes the watch - but to be entirely honest I had thought WIS (watch idiot savants----fancy name for us watch nerds) would be jumping on an affordable micro-rotor too (even just to explore the movement) - i.e. I thought my "draw" would be for people who didn't want to shell out $4000 for a Universal Geneve microtor (which is 12mm thick and 41mm wide):
https://www.chrono24.com/universalgenve/-microtor-101-stainless-steel-nos--id8433046.htm
Never mind the additional aventurine
Anyway - last update for a while after yesterday's interesting reactions - here is the new (hopefully final render) for both the unique and standard Starlight - nothing has changed from the front apart from the date window being modified to be as inconspicuous as possible:
bradán feasa version:
standard version:
Fingers crossed I manage to get to 9.6mm - the review models are on the way to the reviewers too so we should have reports/videos of the models in professional reviewers' hands in around a week's time when I'll give people an update. 0 -
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Ha - well Fitz - you can't actually buy the SoK version (not because I don't like you
) - the most you can do is bid for it for the charity auction - I discussed it a few pages back - only 1 SoK will be offered to the public as a "halo" version of the Starlight - and people here and myself thought it was better to donate it into a charity auction rather than sell it. Devore is checking with adverts.ie to see if something can be set up... who knows - if no-one is interested in the watch you could pick up a bargain at lower than standard Starlight prices - and just to prevent them getting only a pittance I was going to add 500 on top to ensure Alone gets...well at least 501 euro in a donation (put it this way - I was going to ask 499 on Kickstarter for it (as a unique piece) - hence me adding on 500 - I'd be hoping that Alone could get a grand from it).
The SoK version - in addition to the upgraded movement and rose gold indices, will have that salmon leather (topside) and Italian leather (bottom) strap also - hence the SoK name. A prototype of the strap was made by my supplier here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAOJ5vhHD9X/
The actual production version will have thinner thread to not detract from the strap and the colour will be a darkish mauve to complement the dial more. To answer your question - it was decided earlier on that due to plating concerns - the case, deployant etc. will remain in stainless steel and I was going to get the indices and hands plated.
I am hoping to go with "Helping Alone through Solace (Sólás Watches)" - since I thought it was a relevant charity for the current pandemic. Pieta House would definitely be one on the list for the future though (touch wood for that future part).
The SoK would be prioritised - so we might have that unique one out by early August (though the charity auction might take place before that and the winning bidder would need to accept that they won't get the watch straight away - I'll guarantee their money back if everything goes wrong and no watch ever materialises though). Standard ones should be starting delivery by Jan-Feb 2021.0 -
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Both the design and the business parts of your journey are facinating to track.
Keep us up to speed here ... if we can be strategic with how we support your kickstarter then I would certainly have no issues with that.
Thank you! - I would definitely only ask things that I would be comfortable myself doing - i.e. shills (paid for promotion) is not my intention at all but I certainly really welcome people who are genuinely a fan of the concept and want to spread that info to others (in the hopes of getting it across the line and made).
Will let posters here know if anything else would be helpful promotion-wise.
And... here's something else that has been brewing in the background too (since these things take at least a year to execute, even after finding a reliable partner to work with etc.) - efforts are primarily on the Starlight now of course - but Eclipse has entered R&D phase too (won't be revealing it elsewhere though) - I think most people can figure out why a ratcheting clasp is needed
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Thank you! - I would definitely only ask things that I would be comfortable myself doing - i.e. shills (paid for promotion) is not my intention at all but I certainly really welcome people who are genuinely a fan of the concept and want to spread that info to others (in the hopes of getting it across the line and made).
Will let posters here know if anything else would be helpful promotion-wise.
And... here's something else that has been brewing in the background too (since these things take at least a year to execute, even after finding a reliable partner to work with etc.) - efforts are primarily on the Starlight now of course - but Eclipse has entered R&D phase too (won't be revealing it elsewhere though) - I think most people can figure out why a ratcheting clasp is needed
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I know you are on instagram. What about a FB group, maybe a flickr group as well? On line I think is the way to go. Timing is the key though.If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.
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I would be hoping that word of mouth would be enough with the dedicated website, instagram and the forum engagement (will want to probably have a reddit r/watches presence eventually - after some reviews come out at least - would be hoping for a slightly warmer reception from the reddit crowd than the TZ/WUS (if they can see what the reviewers think of the watch already).
It's a double edged sword having too many groups I think - if you don't spend time to update content constantly then people who pop over and see a dead space will find that off-putting. I do have my day job to look after too - I think having instagram as the media channel that is updated regularly, the website as the go to for all info, and forum engagement *should* (fingers crossed) be enough. It'll move onto Kickstarter eventually too once the project is launched there.
Good news from Alone - This Is It who suggested them got in touch with the organisation and they're happy to let people know about the auction too - I'll let DeVore know and perhaps something can be arranged shortly (or at least some kind of plan as to how this could be run/promoted for the charity). I was thinking of doing something like a mini-20-30 second video of something like "An bhfuil tusa ag labhairt liomsa?" - it's always good to have someone to talk to - supporting Alone through Sólás (solace) - charity Irish watch auction details on *link to adverts.ie*/solaswatches.com
For those who don't know - that phrase is one of the key ones from the Yu Ming is Ainm Dom short film I was in - (I'm speaking to Patrick Kavanagh on the grand canal at 7:32 here - https://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/03/30/an-bhfuil-tusa-ag-labhairt-liomsa/ )
...finally, would any of the people who are potential backers be interested in providing some discreet feedback on my ideas for the Sólás Equinox (name changed from Eclipse as that model will be pushed back further) ? Send me a PM if so 0 -
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