How can Shannon turn its fortunes around

lisasimpson

Still numbers declining for shannon compared to Dublin and Cork..
Surely with the motorway developments from Galway to Limerick and the M8 it should have been able to capitalised on this. Plus it has the advantages of a longer runway than Cork.
In April flew one friday to Edinburgh. Apart from a flight to New York after it there was going to be no other departure for nearly 3 hours.
Yes the Boeing issue I'd out of their control the Toronto route was one with potential.

Locker10a

What happened to it becoming a cargo hub?

TPMP

I always use Shannon when going transatlantic. Flight times to other destinations however are always a pain unless you're going to London. I live beside the airport but unfortunately have to use Dublin to go to Tenerife next week as I don't want to go on a Thursday and take 3 days off work.

EchoIndia

Locker10a wrote: »

What happened to it becoming a cargo hub?

Who would want to use it as a cargo hub? Europe is already well-served with such hubs and they are relatively centrally placed, not on the very edge of the continent.

c.p.w.g.w

TPMP wrote: »

I always use Shannon when going transatlantic. Flight times to other destinations however are always a pain unless you're going to London. I live beside the airport but unfortunately have to use Dublin to go to Tenerife next week as I don't want to go on a Thursday and take 3 days off work.

If your going to NYC they keep cancelling flights and putting people on the Dublin return flight.

Skuxx

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

If your going to NYC they keep cancelling flights and putting people on the Dublin return flight.

To say they "keep cancelling flights" is a bit of an exaggeration to be fair. For sure it has happened in the past a few times, but looking back over the last 3 months of flight radar history for the flight I can't see a single cancellation!

I have used the flight quite a bit this year and my issue with it isn't the risk of cancellation, its the awful 757's they use!

I don’t think there is to be honest. I think Shannon is slowly lowering itself to its natural level of traffic.

The motorways being built won’t suck passengers in as much as facilitate people to get to Cork and Knock as easily.

People beg for routes, airlines start routes, no one uses the routes, airline cancels the route. Rinse and repeat year after year.

BZ

It's not all bad news Air Canada will be back again next year providing the MAX issues are sorted. Talks of added European route by EI in the mornings while the second A321will be on the ground.Certain areas are performing strongly such as transit business and GA traffic with it being a very strong year for these.

In terms of changing things get a clear out of the higher management and board. Rose Hynes should not of been appointed for another year and the department of transport are squarely to blame for this. Marketing department requires a major shake up. The airport needs to be more aggressive when it comes to marketing and the areas they are aiming at.
Ryanair cancelled three routes last week that were performing well. The airport needsto grow a pair and to get away from Ryanair, aim to other airlines and European low cost / legacy carriers. Lufthansa for frankfurt being an example that has worked.

Dublin will always suck in the majority of traffic but that doesn't mean that Shannon and other airports on the island can't have a share.It may be a small share but its about getting out their and marketing and selling the airport and its entry to the west and Wild Atlantic Way. And one last thing as someone who lives close by if routes are provided locals must support them. I've encountered a lot of people who say I saved a 100euro flying from Dublin but forget the hassle, the driving or bus costs, food etc.

c.p.w.g.w

Skuxx wrote: »

To say they "keep cancelling flights" is a bit of an exaggeration to be fair. For sure it has happened in the past a few times, but looking back over the last 3 months of flight radar history for the flight I can't see a single cancellation!

I have used the flight quite a bit this year and my issue with it isn't the risk of cancellation, its the awful 757's they use!

In march alone it happened 5 times in a 2 week period. Know people working in the airport and taxi driver who does the airport as a neighbor for my sister. It happened me too in Match

Locker10a

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

In march alone it happened 5 times in a 2 week period. Know people working in the airport and taxi driver who does the airport as a neighbor for my sister. It happened me too in Match

So obviously there was some operational disruption during that period, and it’s barely happened since.
Shannon routes will be among the first to be upgraded to the brand new Aer Lingus a321neo aircraft serving long haul and selected London routes from this winter.

rivegauche

What is its purpose? If it is to serve the people of the Mid West then adjust landing and passenger fees and attract in as many ATR72s and Q400s as they can. There are operators out there looking to fly profitable routes that the LCCs are too big to serve...or just keep lobbying to keep charges at Dublin high and see where that gets them.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/dominance-of-dublin-airport-harms-regions-report-954590.html

lisasimpson

100% agree in relation to the marketing department. One of the cheapest and easiest marketing tools they have is under utilised... social media. If you look at their Instagram page for example it looks more like a Munster rugby supporters club page rather than an airport page ( and before anyone says anything yes I know they sponsor munster)
A comment people would say about shannon is young people don't use it. Here this is where social media should be used for. For the few European destinations it serves I have only seen one post about a Christmas market trip from shannon. Also your 20 and 30 somethings are more likely to holiday in long haul destination. I've never seen them plug the transatlantic destinations as a transfer hub to other destination in the US central or south america. It's not hard just go onto the airlines website and see where they have connection to from New York etc.

It's clear Ryanair are not overly interested in Shannon. They pulled Ibiza after 1 season even they it was popular with young people. Time to target some of the other airline in Europe

Also I think there is potential east. There is quite a significant Indian population living and working in the midwest. Along with the amount of Irish in the UAE and Oz. I know Emerites recently said they aren't focused on secondary airports but again maybe another airline

They should take another look again at renaming the airport. Internationally v few would know where Shannon is or where it's near. Remaining it something like Shannon the wild atlantic way airport would go along way in overcoming this
Actually on the talk of social media whoever runs its facebook page was v unprofessional a few weeks ago in their reply to someone who commented on the lack of routes

chicorytip

The "Shannon Stopover" ruined the status of the airport and resulted in the creation of not one single extra job not alone in Shannon Town but in any area of the entire western seaboard. Parochial, backyard, gombeenism at it's worst.

tippilot

lisasimpson wrote: »

It's clear Ryanair are not overly interested in Shannon. They pulled Ibiza after 1 season even they it was popular with young people. Time to target some of the other airline in Europe

You are 100% spot on with the rest of your post but I must disagree with the above.

Every airport needs a staple and without Ryanair Shannon would be a ghost town. Load factors are apparently good even though there may be a sense of boredom creeping in among the travelling public with the routes on offer. Given that Ryanair are expanding out of every other Irish airport, the question must be asked what are Shannon airport doing differently? Why for example was a highly popular year round route like Berlin moved to Kerry? The airport wont support competition on routes like BHX and EDI, yet most prospective passengers will choose the drive to Dublin over premium pricing. Though it may be a hangover from the last time Ryanair dramatically downsized at Shannon, such thinking prioritises a pointlesss minimal airline diversity over passenger numbers and airport sustainability.

While the airport should continue to search for new partners, it most definitely should engage more actively with an airline with ready made access to a huge number of European destinations. The two approaches are not mutually exclusive and it should be borne in mind that any further contraction of services by FR would more than likely lead to a loss of a based aircraft, something that would have massive consequences for passenger throughput and employment at the airport, both directly and indirectly.

While the airport seems to be doing well from ancillary revenue such as aircraft parking and private jet technical stops, the approach to developing passenger traffic leaves a lot to be desired.

There was talk over the last few weeks that Omni were trialing a German airport over Shannon and if that comes to pass it would be a disaster for the airport.

Shannon has many unique selling points for passengers. It is a highly family friendly, low stress airport with short queuing times and walking distances. It is infrastructurally well connected in our non public transport car-centric society.

Definitely a Wild Atlantic Way rebranding would be a great idea and would go a long way to developing more inward focused routes. There is also huge potential for developing city break routes like Rome, Paris or Prague.

A change of approach or personnel is certainly needed at this point.

xtradel

Their mobile app is really cheap looking with very limited info for flights and services available. I agree with what was said above that a complete rebrand and relaunch is required including new app, website etc.

Del2005

tippilot wrote: »

Shannon has many unique selling points for passengers. It is a highly family friendly, low stress airport with short queuing times and walking distances. It is infrastructurally well connected in our non public transport car-centric society.

If it starts getting more passengers and routes then it won't have it's unique selling point of being family friendly, low stress and shot queues anymore.

lisasimpson

Del2005 wrote: »

If it starts getting more passengers and routes then it won't have it's unique selling point of being family friendly, low stress and shot queues anymore.

It still could be family friendly. With 2.6 millions passengers this year Cork airport is a dream to use with kids compared to dublin so shannon should be using this as a selling point esp with the sensory room they opened last year

gctest50

Bulldoze it and turn it into a high speed train hub

What is the true figure for passenger numbers for Shannon in 2018 ?

Shannon airport claims a very round figure of 1.86 million but the CSO stat is 1,677,661. Corks number is only 5,000 up on the CSO figure, Dublin 160,000 up but over 31.5 million passengers though.

Does Shannon include tech stopover passenger numbers in their figure ?

Balf

Deleted User wrote: »

Does Shannon include tech stopover passenger numbers in their figure ?

I'd expect that any passenger who disembarks or embarks is counted. So if 100 people get off a plane, walk around the terminal building, and get back on the plane I'd take it that's 200 passengers in the numbers.

As to the broader issue, I think Shannon needs to look to its strengths. Their Chair was in the Oireachtas last week making the kind of statements that are only to be expected from politicians, but not what sound like a commercial strategy.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_transport_tourism_and_sport/2019-10-02/

Dublin had 95% of all new business coming into Ireland between 2012 and now. That means that of any 1 million passengers, Dublin takes 950,000 and the rest of us take 50,000 between us.

Dublin doesn't "take" 95% of new business. It attracts 95% of new business.

Since 2010, Dublin has attracted 13 million more passengers. That's about four times the peak Shannon number. It's business Shannon never had, nor was able to attract. And its really best for Shannon not to fixate on whatever Dublin is achieving.

There focus still seems to be to "drive" business out of Dublin. There's no point in trying. The business will just evaporate. And the negative campaigning helps no-one. I commented on another thread on this point. Its ironic that Limerick Chamber of Commerce pays a Danish consultancy called Copenhagen Economics to say that Dublin Airport has too large a market share, when Copenhagen Airport has much the same share to the Danish market.

In fairness to Shannon, they do seem to be trying to make that connection to regional travellers - sponsorship of the Munster team being a centrepiece of that. It really does come down to local travellers actually choosing the airport in preference to Dublin.

Thanks Balf that's what I thought alright.

Dublin doesn't "take" 95% of new business. It attracts 95% of new business.

That is a very good point. The narrative from Shannon and many people online is that Dublin is taking this traffic like it was proposed as an all Ireland route and the airports were bidding for it:rolleyes:. The suggestion from many is that these routes should be shared around the airports in Ireland :rolleyes:. That is not how this works at all. Dublin as Balf has said attracts these routes.

Markcheese

gctest50 wrote: »

Bulldoze it and turn it into a high speed train hub

Interesting proposal... Not really on any high speed rail lines though, and not much of a hub location either really...

Markcheese

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thanks Balf that's what I thought alright.



That is a very good point. The narrative from Shannon and many people online is that Dublin is taking this traffic like it was proposed as an all Ireland route and the airports were bidding for it:rolleyes:. The suggestion from many is that these routes should be shared around the airports in Ireland :rolleyes:. That is not how this works at all. Dublin as Balf has said attracts these routes.

Our entire road network hubs off Dublin, and it happens to be the main population centre...
Any other airport just can't compete.. So If you want to start a flight, Dublin is within 3 hours of most of the population, nowhere else comes close...

easypazz

Markcheese wrote: »

Our entire road network hubs off Dublin, and it happens to be the main population centre...
Any other airport just can't compete.. So If you want to start a flight, Dublin is within 3 hours of most of the population, nowhere else comes close...

Also close to Belfast, and on the right side of Dublin for Nordies.

HTCOne

tippilot wrote: »

There was talk over the last few weeks that Omni were trialing a German airport over Shannon and if that comes to pass it would be a disaster for the airport.

They’ve been using Hahn lately for a number of flights. They left Shannon altogether around 2012 or 13 IIRC in favour of Bucharest before returning. When the Yanks give up on Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan altogether (which is getting increasingly likely) then these flights will cease anyway.

BZ

HTCOne wrote: »

They’ve been using Hahn lately for a number of flights. They left Shannon altogether around 2012 or 13 IIRC in favour of Bucharest before returning. When the Yanks give up on Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan altogether (which is getting increasingly likely) then these flights will cease anyway.

Hahn only temporary. Will be a long tíme before the yanks give up moving troops around the world.

Stovepipe

Shannon's location and it's long runway is a strategic asset to the State so, no matter what, it will be kept going.

x567

I think Balf has hit the nail on the head above in that "...it really does come down to local travellers actually choosing the airport in preference to Dublin".

It is good to see services like the now twice-weekly Lufthansa summer one slowly gaining a foothold, but they do need to be promoted and supported locally. It would be nice to see other European operators come in - maybe Vueling would be a fit, at least seasonally; and a new EI A320 service whilst the 321NEO does the 380/381 rotation is a good opportunity for growth.

There was some discussion about SNN's viability on another thread a while ago - my post to that (repeated below) still holds true:

"I agree with much of the recent discussion above. Whilst Shannon does need to be independently viable and absolutely has to be managed with that mind-set, the airport is, however, an important national asset, at least in my view. Its runway length, diversion capability (pretty frequently used by weather diversions from Dublin and Cork as well as the transatlantic emergencies) and USPC abilities are significant attributes that make it important to keep Shannon active and thriving. It also has a reasonably significant proportion of the country connected to it by motorway these days – lack of an M20 notwithstanding; and parking that is extensive and affordable compared to Dublin.

The airport’s success with transatlantic flights in the summer season is commendable, no doubt building on the impressive Wild Atlantic Way marketing for O&D’s. I have noticed quite a lot of transfer traffic from these flights to the London EI flights though, so there must be some transfer demand there. I hope that both of the EI routes to the USA are given a fair chance to succeed in this market and don’t continue to be somewhat sacrificial when there are airframe shortages elsewhere as they seem to have been in the recent past.

Accepting that EI will want to focus on building Dublin as their hub for efficiency reasons, its current capacity constraints do make me wonder whether some of EI’s O&D holiday traffic - bucket & spade routes and maybe Orlando could make a little more of SNN and take some pressure off DUB to allow them to focus more on transatlantic business and transfer traffic. A bit like BA and VS do by using LGW for a fairly high proportion of their sunshine routes, many of which attract passengers from across the UK rather than just from London and the South-East"

Noxegon

x567 wrote: »

Accepting that EI will want to focus on building Dublin as their hub for efficiency reasons, its current capacity constraints do make me wonder whether some of EI’s O&D holiday traffic - bucket & spade routes and maybe Orlando could make a little more of SNN and take some pressure off DUB to allow them to focus more on transatlantic business and transfer traffic. A bit like BA and VS do by using LGW for a fairly high proportion of their sunshine routes, many of which attract passengers from across the UK rather than just from London and the South-East"

You're forgetting that a sizeable percentage of those heading to Heathrow will be coming from inside the M25 – and thus their journey time to Gatwick will not be radically different to Heathrow.

The same is not true for DUB vs SNN.

I'd also quote a fact from the Gatwick website: "Gatwick has the largest rail catchment of any UK airport and 15 million people - more than a quarter of the population of England - can access Gatwick by road or rail within 60 minutes.". I've no idea what the comparable figure is for Shannon, but I'd be surprised if it was seven figures.

x567

Noxegon wrote: »

You're forgetting that a sizeable percentage of those heading to Heathrow will be coming from inside the M25 – and thus their journey time to Gatwick will not be radically different to Heathrow.

I'm not sure that it would be a sizeable percentage. From my own observations (I've used Gatwick a lot over the years) it seems to get holiday travellers from all over the UK and not just London and the Southeast. It's also not that easy to get to quickly unless you live in or to the South of London.

Their 'fact' about a quarter of the 67m Uk population getting there within an hour is probably a little over-stated; but you're right in that Shannon's catchment and connectivity isn't comparable. It is a relatively easy drive from quite a few parts of the country however, and the parking at Shannon is convenient and affordable.

yer man!

The airport desperately needs to connect to 1 or 2 more hubs like Amsterdam or Paris. I myself am from the west coast but live in the Netherlands, going home I absolutely dread another 2 hour journey to the other side of the country. I would be willing to pay the premium to fly into the place as Dublin is an absolute pain and is heavily congested to get to, to transition through and depart from. My flights out of Dub are waiting on the tarmac for up to 30 minutes on a regular basis now. Shannon is an absolute dream in comparison.

HTCOne

The runway isn’t particularly long. The whole “longest runway in Europe” is a myth and god knows where it started. Off the top of my head Prestwick and Heathrow have longer, and there’s dozens in Europe. When 10L/28R opens in DUB, there’ll be a tiny % of diversions who need that extra 90m, if any. Sure the airport already reduces fire cover during the night because the number of diversions to DUB have increased in recent years.

BZ

HTCOne wrote: »

The runway isn’t particularly long. The whole “longest runway in Europe” is a myth and god knows where it started. Off the top of my head Prestwick and Heathrow have longer, and there’s dozens in Europe. When 10L/28R opens in DUB, there’ll be a tiny % of diversions who need that extra 90m, if any. Sure the airport already reduces fire cover during the night because the number of diversions to DUB have increased in recent years.

Incorrect once again. First off Prestwicks runway is shorter at 2987 metres while SNN is 3199 metres. Second fire cover was not reduced because of the amount of diversions to Dublin. It was reduced to CAT7 to fit the size of aircraft frequenting SNN on a daily basis and to reduce labour costs. However CAT9 is available most days with the likes of Kalitta, Omni etc operating on a nearly daily basis. it is also bumped up to CAT9 for any scheduled charters, tech stops. Look at diversions in recent weeks American and BA both having B777s divert in.

The reason the likes of BA and American are still choosing SNN over DUB for diversions is down to a better service provided due to the airport being quieter, maintenance available on the airfield and no slots required for departure.

Balf

x567 wrote: »

.... take some pressure off DUB ...

I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but I think the "take pressure off" idea is still in that zone of thinking there's some way of squeezing business out of Dublin. Dublin is a successful airport; it's success is down to folk wanting to use it.

That has to be the foundation of Shannon's success, too.

BZ wrote: »

Incorrect once again. First off Prestwicks runway is shorter at 2987 metres while SNN is 3199 metres.

That is correct, but on the wider point its hard to find a basis for the frequent claim that Shannon's runway is especially long. Dublin's current runway is just unusually short for an airport of its significance.

Maybe Shannon's runway was unusually long back in the 1960s. But there's plenty of airports with 4,000 metre runways.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_runways

Balf

Balf wrote: »

Dublin's current runway is just unusually short for an airport of its significance.[/url]

It is unusually short because of protectionist mid west TDs insisted it was shortened from the proposed length so as not to take some of Shannons traffic.

http://www.oireachtas-debates.gov.ie...606060003.html
Dáil Éireann - Volume 367 - 06 June, 1986
US Preinspection Facilities at Shannon Airport: Motion.
It is worth drawing the attention of the House to a phrase in the Minister's speech. He says that officers of the United States Immigration and Naturalisation Service would conduct in Ireland, at Shannon in the first instance, inspection of passengers and aircraft crew required by the US laws. Is it proposed to have this elsewhere and, if so, why? What the Minister said is borne out by [1481] Article IV of the agreement in the Schedule to the Bill where it says:

Preinspection may be conducted at additional locations in Ireland by agreement, expressed in writing, of both Governments.

Why should it be held anywhere else other than Shannon? Has it to do with the proposal which I regard as rather dubious in terms of public expenditure of a new runway at Dublin? For what purpose other than trans-Atlantic flights is that proposed runway required at a cost of £30 million? That proposal has been made for ten or 15 years and it never came to fruition. I do not see the operation of Dublin Airport being adversely affected by the absence of a very long runway that could take fully laden trans-Atlantic flights. We are entitled to ask why that should be the case. The context of Article IV of this draft agreement seems to suggest that, as soon as the runway is provided, these facilities will be provided in Dublin. We have a tendency at official level to think that everything must happen in Dublin and, if it is not happening in Dublin, it is not happening at all.

BZ

Balf wrote: »

I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but I think the "take pressure off" idea is still in that zone of thinking there's some way of squeezing business out of Dublin. Dublin is a successful airport; it's success is down to folk wanting to use it.

That has to be the foundation of Shannon's success, too. That is correct, but on the wider point its hard to find a basis for the frequent claim that Shannon's runway is especially long. Dublin's current runway is just unusually short for an airport of its significance.

Maybe Shannon's runway was unusually long back in the 1960s. But there's plenty of airports with 4,000 metre runways.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_runways

Apologies I meant to say I agree on the point about longest runway in Europe.

BobMc

for me personally its the drive time to Dublin that puts me off, roads are excellent etc. but lets say I want to get this mornings Alicante flight. Leaving 10.10, be at the airport for what time 8am, with parking and rush hour traffic.

A crash on the M50 delays you? So what time do you leave the Limerick region ? average is about 2hr 10/15mins or so with normal traffic I'd imagine any hold up could add considerably to that, so in my book your looking at a 5.30am departure.

what about a flight time that makes you hit dead centre rush hour ! its hassle

As someone mentioned earlier would holiday flights releave some pressure from dublin.

easypazz

Stovepipe wrote: »

Shannon's location and it's long runway is a strategic asset to the State so, no matter what, it will be kept going.

Nonsense, what is so strategic important to the state about the location?

Shannons catchment area is immediately served by Cork, Kerry and Knock airports, with the motorway to Cork and Adare bypass making those closer.

What is the big deal about having a long runway that makes it a strategic asset to the state?

Cookiemunster

easypazz wrote: »

Nonsense, what is so strategic important to the state about the location?

Shannons catchment area is immediately served by Cork, Kerry and Knock airports, with the motorway to Cork and Adare bypass making those closer.

What is the big deal about having a long runway that makes it a strategic asset to the state?

No this is what's nonsense. There are around 250,000 people living within 30 - 40 mins of Shannon. Cork and especially Kerry and Knock do not serve its catchment area. I'm all for it standing on it's own two feet, but please less of the ridiculous statements.

Van.Bosch

BobMc wrote: »

for me personally its the drive time to Dublin that puts me off, roads are excellent etc. but lets say I want to get this mornings Alicante flight. Leaving 10.10, be at the airport for what time 8am, with parking and rush hour traffic.

A crash on the M50 delays you? So what time do you leave the Limerick region ? average is about 2hr 10/15mins or so with normal traffic I'd imagine any hold up could add considerably to that, so in my book your looking at a 5.30am departure.

what about a flight time that makes you hit dead centre rush hour ! its hassle

As someone mentioned earlier would holiday flights releave some pressure from dublin.

Genuine question - given I agree with the hassle you noted, would you take a feeder flight SNN-DUB above that? Assuming it was well timed etc?

tototoe

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Genuine question - given I agree with the hassle you noted, would you take a feeder flight SNN-DUB above that? Assuming it was well timed etc?

Personally I'd prefer not to go to Dublin at all. Despite terminal 2 it is still an awful airport for a passenger. I go via London if I can avoid dub....but that's just me....and even aside from driving or bussing to dublin

x567

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Genuine question - given I agree with the hassle you noted, would you take a feeder flight SNN-DUB above that? Assuming it was well timed etc?

I probably would (and did in the dim and distant past), but doubt it would ever happen now as the DUB slots would be more valuable for other routes as Dublin's successful growth continues.

Where connections are well-timed and not too much more expensive, I have often chosen to fly from SNN and go via LHR or JFK/BOS (when going west) rather than face the journey to and through Dublin for a 'direct' flight. My drive to or from DUB is just under 2 hours to give context.

That said I have been a very frequent traveller for many years with all of the benefits of fast-track, airport familiarity, etc. and understand that less frequent fliers would not take the same view.

easypazz

Cookiemunster wrote: »

No this is what's nonsense. There are around 250,000 people living within 30 - 40 mins of Shannon. Cork and especially Kerry and Knock do not serve its catchment area. I'm all for it standing on it's own two feet, but please less of the ridiculous statements.

But how is it such an important strategic location to the state that no matter what it will be kept open.


I am not advocating it be closed or anything like but, if it became unviable commercially and say for argument sake most of the existing carriers left, then I doubt the state would keep it open for strategic reasons.

Ditto the runway, what is the strategic reason for the government to keep it open?

They seem ok to let Galway, Sligo and Waterford wilt away to nothing.

Balf

BobMc wrote: »

As someone mentioned earlier would holiday flights releave some pressure from dublin.

Leaving aside the "pressure" idea, and whether more holiday flights would still leave Shannon with an even more pronounced seasonality issue, there's no particular reason to stop carriers offering holiday flights from Shannon.

So can anyone account for why they don't?

tototoe wrote: »

I go via London if I can avoid dub....but that's just me....

Not meaning to be cheeky, but it pretty much is just you. Business in DUB is good because, tbh, people use it. Busy, very busy, but that reflects just how many people do choose it.

If folk were gasping for any alternative, Shannon would be booming.

Nijmegen

If Shannon was viable for large scale passenger operations, it would have large scale passenger operations. Particularly in this era of dynamic LCCs, who can and have turned a whole variety of obscure ex-military and part-military airfields into thriving cattle market terminals.

I think there could be something in rebranding around the wild Atlantic way. But it sounds like management are focused on the good old blame Dublin approach.

Perhaps the real future of Shannon is on the services side of things. As already mentioned it’s a good airport for TATL diversions and has a few decent operations already for servicing the industry. A big play here might be a decent idea.

Alternatively the government could lobby for some post-Brexit Airbus investment...!

easypazz

Nijmegen wrote: »

Perhaps the real future of Shannon is on the services side of things. As already mentioned it’s a good airport for TATL diversions and has a few decent operations already for servicing the industry. A big play here might be a decent idea.

Not sure what the point would be in focusing on providing an airport for TATL diversions, the small income from them probably amounts to nothing more than a handy bonus each year.

As regards the servicing side of the industry, that is definitely an area where they can focus, the profits from which could be offset against the operating costs of the passenger side of things.

Cookiemunster

easypazz wrote: »

But how is it such an important strategic location to the state that no matter what it will be kept open.

I am not advocating it be closed or anything like but, if it became unviable commercially and say for argument sake most of the existing carriers left, then I doubt the state would keep it open for strategic reasons.

Ditto the runway, what is the strategic reason for the government to keep it open?

They seem ok to let Galway, Sligo and Waterford wilt away to nothing.

I never mentioned anything about government strategy. I was referring to the ridiculous part of the post about Kerry and Knock serving it's catchment area.

easypazz wrote: »

Not sure what the point would be in focusing on providing an airport for TATL diversions, the small income from them probably amounts to nothing more than a handy bonus each year.

As regards the servicing side of the industry, that is definitely an area where they can focus, the profits from which could be offset against the operating costs of the passenger side of things.

Shannon isn't doing as well as it could be doing, but it's still easily out performing Knock and Kerry. Plus it's already got sizeable MRO and leasing businesses based there and there's a huge widebody hanger almost finished construction. It's not in danger of going under any time soon.

Balf

Nijmegen wrote: »

I think there could be something in rebranding around the wild Atlantic way. But it sounds like management are focused on the good old blame Dublin approach.

For better or worse, the Airport has decided not to rebrand

https://www.clareecho.ie/wild-atlantic-way-rebranding-of-airport-wont-take-off/

Mr Thomas noted that “The Wild Atlantic Way encompasses six formal regions covering nine counties down the entire Western seaboard”. He said six airports were located along this route, Donegal, Sligo, Knock, Shannon, Kerry and Cork, “Shannon Airport therefore cannot be considered the only Wild Atlantic Way airport, nor be branded accordingly”.

“Shannon Airport is an internationally recognised brand in its own right, its brand proposition and images are strong. Our research concludes that rebranding would be a regressive step for the Airport, diluting our existing strong brand equity. The Shannon brand is trusted and credible; known internationally as the place where Duty Free shopping began and where the first free zone was established. Furthermore, a rebrand were it to be approved is a very expensive process estimated to cost millions of euro”.

Matthew who has been in the role since June 2016 acknowledged the “real asset” the Wild Atlantic Way offers. He pointed out that Fáilte Ireland’s Wild Atlantic Way website “has an expansive section” on Shannon and Shannon Airport’s website “has a full page dedicated” to the tourism initiative.

Cllr McMahon’s motion requested the Council liaise with Shannon Group to develop “a more effective strategy” to promote the airport. According to Thomas, they “developed a clear and effective strategy to actively promote the airport locally, nationally and internationally”.

Kerry, Cork and Knock serve their own catchment areas, improving and improved roads enable people to choose between airports. So Shannon is now competing for Knock, Cork and Kerry passengers as all catchment areas overlap in one way or another.

Previously it was heavily suggested that Shannon breaking away from the daa would be the saviour of the airport. It has proven incorrect. Now people are suggesting changing its name will save the airport, grabbing at straws much.

Rather than people looking at why they personally use Shannon over Dublin people should be looking at why people use Dublin, Cork, Kerry and Knock over Shannon. It is one thing having a long runway and an underused airport but passengers don’t care about those things. People need to stop looking at why airlines aren’t serving the airport and asking why passengers aren’t using the airport. Airlines aren’t serving the airport because passengers aren’t using it.

The halcyon days of Shannon airport being a big airport have passed I’m afraid. No amount of leg ups will make it anything other than a small quiet regional airport I’m afraid.

As an alternate to Dublin people should be supporting Cork airport, it seems to have found its way and has ever increasing connections.

BZ

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Kerry, Cork and Knock serve their own catchment areas, improving and improved roads enable people to choose between airports. So Shannon is now competing for Knock, Cork and Kerry passengers as all catchment areas overlap in one way or another.

Previously it was heavily suggested that Shannon breaking away from the daa would be the saviour of the airport. It has proven incorrect. Now people are suggesting changing its name will save the airport, grabbing at straws much.

Rather than people looking at why they personally use Shannon over Dublin people should be looking at why people use Dublin, Cork, Kerry and Knock over Shannon. It is one thing having a long runway and an underused airport but passengers don’t care about those things. People need to stop looking at why airlines aren’t serving the airport and asking why passengers aren’t using the airport. Airlines aren’t serving the airport because passengers aren’t using it.

The halcyon days of Shannon airport being a big airport have passed I’m afraid. No amount of leg ups will make it anything other than a small quiet regional airport I’m afraid.

As an alternate to Dublin people should be supporting Cork airport, it seems to have found its way and has ever increasing connections.

Shannon is an international airport not regional. Why would people from Clare, limerick and galway use Cork, its a worse journey than Dublin.
Shannon will survive but it will be a long time before it breaks the the 2 let alone 2.5million mark again. With the right marketing team, the correct CEO and a new board the airport can be turned around.

HTCOne

BZ wrote: »

. It was reduced to CAT7 to fit the size of aircraft frequenting SNN on a daily basis and to reduce labour costs. However CAT9 is available most days with the likes of Kalitta, Omni etc operating on a nearly daily basis. it is also bumped up to CAT9 for any scheduled charters, tech stops. Look at diversions in recent weeks American and BA both having B777s divert in.

The reason the likes of BA and American are still choosing SNN over DUB for diversions is down to a better service provided due to the airport being quieter, maintenance available on the airfield and no slots required for departure.

Interesting, so why am I regularly getting Notams advising Cat 7 not available during peak eastbound flow?

And indeed I was incorrect about PIK, it seems LGW and LHR are the only civilian airports with runways significantly longer than 3,200m. I’d still love to know where the nonsense about longest runway in Europe came from though.

The airport couldn’t even sustain CDG flights (I was a regular user). For whatever reason people are voting with their feet. Bar the Northeast US & London, it’s an absolute pain in the arse to get anywhere, with 1 & 2 weekly flights here and there. It’s my local airport & I’d love to be able to use it for a long weekend in Rome or Paris but that’s no longer possible. That isn’t the fault of the airlines or Dublin airport, it’s people in the Shannon catchment who used to use it but now prefer saving a few quid or having more choice of flights via DUB.

The likes of Loganair, Stobart and Flybe would be ideal customers for the airport to pursue imo, maybe HOP too.