Are my grandparents being too relaxed about this situation?

chris525

If you have read my previous question regarding this topic then I have discovered that my paternal grandparents didn't know that I existed.

Yes, I am seeing a counsellor but things happen in between sessions and she only wants to focus on me but I also want to get a sense of if I want to bother with this new family I have found and try to get some new perspectives.

My grandparents allege that they have been in contact with my father on a weekly basis since he moved out of their family home. They said that they knew my mother's name as my father spoke to my mother on the phone but my father didn't bother to tell my grandparents about me despite having met me as a child a few times.

My mother alleges that ever time she saw my father he was drunk or high on something. My grandparents allege that my father has never been in a drug rehab center although my father phoned my mother and told her that he had been to a rehab center. My mother alleges that this is what dealing with my father feels like - it feels like everyone is lying because he is different things to different people and tells different people different things. She has friends who have had the same experience with him and yes I did see that he smoke a substance while babysitting me one time. My mother alleges that she did not prevent my father from seeing me; he simply didn't want to see me unless my mother would have sex with him.

Anyways, my grandparents found out that their son fathered a child, kept the child a secret from them, and was an absent parent and they told me that they are going to visit him and help him paint his house. They said that they are going to discuss the matter with him and that they are very sad and this is very emotional for them. They have been emailing me constantly since we came into contact and they said they want to meet and that they are very fond of me.

They allege that they think things panned out the way they did due to the breakdown in the relationship between my parents and they don't want to pry. They allege that they trust their son, he's an honest person and he's been self-employed this entire time etc. How can you say he's honest after keeping such a secret?

I have some issues with this: 1. you find out what your son did and you want to paint his house? 2. despite the breakdown in relationship my father chose to be an absent parent. He didn't see a lawyer, he didn't exhaust all avenues, he didn't make contact with me for years on end at a time, and he didn't persistently try to build a relationship with me.

Do you think they are in denial (having trouble coming to terms with this?) about their son's behaviour or trying to make excuses for him?

I don't think I'll confront them about it because I don't want to get into an argument with them at this time but I'm trying to get a sense of their motives.

paw patrol

while I totally understand that you are upset with the situation , please consider it from theirs

1. you find out what your son did and you want to paint his house?
they are still processing this info so you can't expect them to act immediately or act in a way that suits you.

Also he is their son (regardless of what he has done to you) they probably love him unconditionally and their relationship with him is separate to theirs (or his) with you.


2. despite the breakdown in relationship my father chose to be an absent parent. He didn't see a lawyer, he didn't exhaust all avenues, he didn't make contact with me for years on end at a time, and he didn't persistently try to build a relationship with me.

I don't know what age you are , I know somebody who was born in 1979 with a similar story to you. Father was tracked down years later and his story (which was confirmed by older relatives both sides) is that he was warned to stay away to avoid causing trouble as the mother had moved on and his presence was just an interference in that. The 1980s were a different time.
I don't know if you situation is similar but it's not always fair to judge the past based on attitudes today.

I wish you luck in your journey but you should really focus on what you can control and change and that is yourself. You can't control others nor should you want too.

Idle Passerby

I remember your previous post. I think you need to try to step outside of the situation a bit and try to look at it objectively.

Your grandparents have only just heard of your existence. They have known their son his whole life and presumably love him. I'm sure they are shocked by recent revelations but it won't erase the relationship they have with their son. Why wouldn't they still want to help him paint his house? Yes he kept important information from them concerning you which is dubious but you don't know enough about him or how he relates to any of the other people in this scenario to decide this is reason for his own parents to disown him.

In all likelihood, your grandparents have by now spoken to their son about the mysterious woman who has appeared in their lives claiming to be their granddaughter. Presumably they have accepted that you are indeed who you say you are or they wouldn't be keen to keep in touch. Maybe they already know if your dad is hoping you'll want to make contact with him, or if he hasn't the remotest interest but they are likely to be more concerned with what he wants from the scenario than what you do, he is their son after all, you are a relative they have only just heard exists.

Your parents relationship with each other was obviously dysfunctional. Your mother is clearly angry about the relationship and how it panned out so it's unclear if her representation is entirely accurate. You have referred a few times to your dad being an addict according to your mum. Is it possible he simply dabbled in drugs (not condoning that, particularly when responsible for a child) but taking drugs doesn't necessarily mean that you will have been to rehab or that your incapable of holding down a job. I would take your mum's version with a pinch of salt. There is probably a fair bit of truth to it but its likely coloured by her own bad experiences.

You won't figure out who your dad is/was by trying to stitch together snippets of stories told to you by people who disliked him 20 years ago and others who still love him and have their own take on what happened years ago and why.

I think you need to reconcile that what happened between you, your mum and your dad was really ****ty but raking over all the fragmented information you have isn't going to help you solve the puzzle of why it all went the way it did.

Witcher

What's this 'allege' stuff? You'd swear they had committed a crime, they're not answerable to you for how they feel about their son. If they have no problem with him not telling them about you then you'll have to move on from it.

LegacyUser

Hi OP,

I have read other threads of yours so just going by what you’ve said or other people have mentioned here.

I’m confused about the house painting point, the “after they found out what he’d done.” He’s their son, he was their son before you were born & he always will be. Their relationship with him exists regardless.

Re what you have said about your father exhausting all avenues to see you. Did you mother make it difficult for him? If so, are you not angry at her?

Some of the ideas you have seen a little overly romantic. I understand that you’re upset, presumably your an adult now, be gentle on your father, maybe he did his best, maybe he didn’t but expecting his own parents to punish him or be angry at him isn’t the way to go. If nothing else, what would it solve?

Xterminator

Hi Op

there not in denial, you are.

life isn't a Disney sitcom where everyone is good at heart and people all make up and live happy ever after n the end.

everyone has good and bad in them. just because you father wasn't a good dad, doesn't make him a bad person. And even if he was a bad person, even killers love their mums and dads. And vice versa.

You have a chance of having a relationship with your grandparents. But you might be sabotaging that chance by not understanding the points raised above by posters.

their motives are simple. and you dont know what you father did and didn't try, nor why he didn't maintain contact. you appear to take everything your mother 'remembered' as gospel and shifted all the blame to dad. Now your wondering why his parents love their son!

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh. Please have a good think about the points raised. Please try to understand your grandparents situation. And perhaps perhaps you could suspend your judgement of your fathers actions until you know his side of the story.

chris525

Ilikecookies wrote: »

Hi OP,

I have read other threads of yours so just going by what you’ve said or other people have mentioned here.

I’m confused about the house painting point, the “after they found out what he’d done.” He’s their son, he was their son before you were born & he always will be. Their relationship with him exists regardless.

Re what you have said about your father exhausting all avenues to see you. Did you mother make it difficult for him? If so, are you not angry at her?

Some of the ideas you have seen a little overly romantic. I understand that you’re upset, presumably your an adult now, be gentle on your father, maybe he did his best, maybe he didn’t but expecting his own parents to punish him or be angry at him isn’t the way to go. If nothing else, what would it solve?

I guess this is altogether too much for me. He couldn't be bothered to tell his parents about me after all these years meanwhile he goes on about his life as if I didn't exist. To be honest, I haven't exactly been thinking of him all this time either. It's just that I was looking for genealogical information from the grandparents that I thought knew about me and I didn't know that I was dropping such a bomb on them by writing a letter asking who my great-grandparents were.

My father told my mother that his parents did know about me and that they were not interested/angry. He lied. My mother wanted to tell them but she was afraid to because of what my father told her.

It's just too much for me. Too hard to see other people have such a strong relationship with him while he goes on as if I meant nothing.

If we are such strangers then they should not be putting 'love grandma & grandpa' on their emails. I'm not prepared to hear about the great life my father has been living whilst leaving me in the dust.

Although I have heard from a cousin on Facebook that he has not been a great dad to my half-sister and his ex-wife will no longer allow him to see her (she's 16).

This was not the 1980s in Ireland BTW.

I just think this is going to be too emotional for me and seeing them loyal to him is too hard for me. I don't know what to tell them.

chris525

Ilikecookies wrote: »

Hi OP,

I have read other threads of yours so just going by what you’ve said or other people have mentioned here.

I’m confused about the house painting point, the “after they found out what he’d done.” He’s their son, he was their son before you were born & he always will be. Their relationship with him exists regardless.

Re what you have said about your father exhausting all avenues to see you. Did you mother make it difficult for him? If so, are you not angry at her?

Some of the ideas you have seen a little overly romantic. I understand that you’re upset, presumably your an adult now, be gentle on your father, maybe he did his best, maybe he didn’t but expecting his own parents to punish him or be angry at him isn’t the way to go. If nothing else, what would it solve?

My mother said that she did not prevent him from having a relationship with me and did not prevent him from contacting me (I was the one who often checked the post and phone calls - nothing from him and he knew where we lived).

It's hard to be angry with my mother because he told her to have an abortion and when she would not do it - he dumped her. As a woman, I can really sympathise. If someone did not want your child to be born then I wouldn't want him to have an easy go of it. He didn't want the child you love to exist after all.

chris525

Witcher wrote: »

What's this 'allege' stuff? You'd swear they had committed a crime, they're not answerable to you for how they feel about their son. If they have no problem with him not telling them about you then you'll have to move on from it.

Well then I'll have to move on from them unfortunately. I don't care what his reasons for being absent were. It'll never be good enough for me.

Dial Hard

chris525 wrote: »

Well then I'll have to move on from them unfortunately. I don't care what his reasons for being absent were. It'll never be good enough for me.

There's your answer so. You are never going to get what you deem to be the "correct" reaction from them. He's their son and they love him.

chris525

Dial Hard wrote: »

There's your answer so. You are never going to get what you deem to be the "correct" reaction from them. He's their son and they love him.

But they did tell me that they are very sad and that this is emotional for them.

Dial Hard

chris525 wrote: »

But they did tell me that they are very sad and that this is emotional for them.

I have no doubt that it absolutely is. But you're expecting them to react by disowning their son and that is quite simply never going to happen.

They can be sad and emotional about you and still love him. They are not mutually exclusive states no matter how much you'd like them to be.

chris525

Dial Hard wrote: »

I have no doubt that it absolutely is. But you're expecting them to react by disowning their son and that is quite simply never going to happen.

They can be sad and emotional about you and still love him. They are not mutually exclusive states no matter how much you'd like them to be.

Distancing yourself doesn't mean you're going to disown someone. It just means you're not going to lick their arse by painting their house etc. It means reducing but not cutting contact.

Idle Passerby

Your seeing things in black and white. "My dad treated me badly therefore everyone should finally understand he's a bad person and punish him on my behalf." That's not how complicated human relationships work.

I think the best thing you could do is see a counsellor and work on all those years of anger your harbouring. It's clouding your ability to see things from an objective point of view.

duffman13

chris525 wrote: »

Distancing yourself doesn't mean you're going to disown someone. It just means you're not going to lick their arse by painting their house etc. It means reducing but not cutting contact.

Keep seeing the counsellor, you've a lot to work through. Start trying to see the positives in life somewhat. You've a mother who obviously cares greatly about you. You've made contact with your grandparents who want to have a relationship with you. The more people in your life who love you the better. Your father may not be one of them however don't let him sabotage more of your life than he already has. His parents will love him pretty much no matter what.

As your relationship grows with them then they may start to question him further about his behaviour but that's probably as far as it will go. Your over reaching expecting them to disown them with the limited information they have so far.

chris525

duffman13 wrote: »

Keep seeing the counsellor, you've a lot to work through. Start trying to see the positives in life somewhat. You've a mother who obviously cares greatly about you. You've made contact with your grandparents who want to have a relationship with you. The more people in your life who love you the better. Your father may not be one of them however don't let him sabotage more of your life than he already has. His parents will love him pretty much no matter what.

As your relationship grows with them then they may start to question him further about his behaviour but that's probably as far as it will go. Your over reaching expecting them to disown them with the limited information they have so far.

No, my mother is not one of the positives in my life. No, I did not say that they should disown him but rather not lick his arse by painting his house. My life isn't that good. Sure, I have a husband and 2 kids but I also have to work and I have no time to do anything.

chris525

Idle Passerby wrote: »

Your seeing things in black and white. "My dad treated me badly therefore everyone should finally understand he's a bad person and punish him on my behalf." That's not how complicated human relationships work.

I think the best thing you could do is see a counsellor and work on all those years of anger your harbouring. It's clouding your ability to see things from an objective point of view.

Well, I simply can't handle people liking someone who treated me badly. It's not just in this situation but in all others.

Xterminator

Well, I simply can't handle people liking someone who treated me badly. It's not just in this situation but in all others.

I understand your reaction. its perfectly human. My and if you cannot come to terms with it, that is your prerogative.

But you are denying yourself, and your children a relationship with their grandparents because of how you feel about your father. Its not the intention but because of the bad blood you are punishing yourself, the grandparents, and even your own children. And perhaps it is ironic but the 'bad guy' your father assuming he is as heartless as you suspect, he wont feel one iota of regret! So punishing the innocent for other peoples sins?

I would advise you to go to counselling and see if you can come to terms with your feelings. It is unreasonable to expect them to ostracise their own child on your behalf because of his past sins.

chris525

Xterminator wrote: »

I understand your reaction. its perfectly human. My and if you cannot come to terms with it, that is your prerogative.

But you are denying yourself, and your children a relationship with their grandparents because of how you feel about your father. Its not the intention but because of the bad blood you are punishing yourself, the grandparents, and even your own children. And perhaps it is ironic but the 'bad guy' your father assuming he is as heartless as you suspect, he wont feel one iota of regret! So punishing the innocent for other peoples sins?

I would advise you to go to counselling and see if you can come to terms with your feelings. It is unreasonable to expect them to ostracise their own child on your behalf because of his past sins.

They are my grandparents and my children's great-grandparents. I live 8, 000 km away from both of my parents and my grandparents and we won't be able to afford the plane tickets for all of us to go over so my children will probably never meet my grandparents. Who knows maybe one day but it's going to cost about 5k which we won't have for years.

I'm not confident that I can come to terms with this though. It's too much for me. I am seeing a counsellor but it's not really helping.

Caranica

I'm not sure you can ever resolve this at that distance. Being that far away it's easy to misinterpret or take the wrong meaning from something, especially if communication is predominantly in written format. Face time is good but real face to face is the best way. If that's not an option then I think you need to look forward and not back. Look after your family, make memories and have good times. Don't let the past keep you prisoner.

chris525

Caranica wrote: »

I'm not sure you can ever resolve this at that distance. Being that far away it's easy to misinterpret or take the wrong meaning from something, especially if communication is predominantly in written format. Face time is good but real face to face is the best way. If that's not an option then I think you need to look forward and not back. Look after your family, make memories and have good times. Don't let the past keep you prisoner.

I was originally reaching out to them only for genealogical information. I needed the names of my great-grandparents to proceed with my family research. I thought that they knew about me because my father told my mother that they knew and that they were not interested/angry.

Basically, he told her a malicious lie to keep her away from them.

They immediately wanted a relationship with me and sucked me into this being all nice and friendly for a few months before even mentioning my father. My grandfather said he had a 'hunch' but didn't know whatever that means. I sent them a photo of me (apparently I look just like my father).

They've sucked me in deep sending me photos of my cousins and their weddings and how they can't wait to meet one day.

It's just that I'm not confident that I can cope with my father living his life as if I essentially didn't exist and with people not being angry with him (although they did say that it's very emotional for them). My father did try to reach out a few times when I was a child (maybe 3-5) but that simply isn't enough to forge a bond with a child. You can't expect a child to go running into the arms of a parent who has been absent and is essentially a stranger.

I might go back to visit one day by myself. My grandparents are also being controlling and manipulative over this process. They will not discuss anything with him unless it's in person and I don't want to be at their mercy. I mentioned that I was angry with my father and then they said 'oh we won't tell him that you contacted us then.' That's controlling so I had to give in and BS them just so that I have a chance to connect with the other relatives.

MissShihTzu

OP - I get that you're angry and hurt, with good reason. But I am not sure what advice you're looking for.

You have your own family and own life. I agree with Caranica - focus on those and try to cut your grandparents some slack. Of course they would love to meet you and get to know you. They never knew you existed before! They never sucked you into anything - You CHOSE to send pictures and for me that's a good thing.

Neither do I believe they are being controlling and manipulative. They are walking a fine line -they would like to maintain contact with you, but also need to speak to your father to gauge what is going on without causing upset on either side.

I would distance yourself from them for now to allow time for things to settle on all sides. You have enough to be dealing with as you have your own family.

Good luck!

chris525

MissShihTzu wrote: »

OP - I get that you're angry and hurt, with good reason. But I am not sure what advice you're looking for.

You have your own family and own life. I agree with Caranica - focus on those and try to cut your grandparents some slack. Of course they would love to meet you and get to know you. They never knew you existed before! They never sucked you into anything - You CHOSE to send pictures and for me that's a good thing.

Neither do I believe they are being controlling and manipulative. They are walking a fine line -they would like to maintain contact with you, but also need to speak to your father to gauge what is going on without causing upset on either side.

I would distance yourself from them for now to allow time for things to settle on all sides. You have enough to be dealing with as you have your own family.

Good luck!

I guess I don't understand what's the big deal in causing upset. Of course there is going to be upset - it's impossible for there not to be.

Ursus Horribilis

You don't know/barely any of these people. Because you don't, you don't know the family dynamics or what they're really like. It doesn't help that your mother wasn't a positive force in your life either. So you're filling in a lot of blanks yourself. Your posts are full of guesswork and whataboutery. You have two choices here from what I can see. Either you go into this all guns blazing, meet your father, have these conversations face to face with his parents, read them. Or you back away. The middle ground seems to be tormenting you.

chris525

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

You don't know/barely any of these people. Because you don't, you don't know the family dynamics or what they're really like. It doesn't help that your mother wasn't a positive force in your life either. So you're filling in a lot of blanks yourself. Your posts are full of guesswork and whataboutery. You have two choices here from what I can see. Either you go into this all guns blazing, meet your father, have these conversations face to face with his parents, read them. Or you back away. The middle ground seems to be tormenting you.

Well that's what I want to do but my grandparents are not allowing it. They are forcing the middle ground.

They refuse to discuss the matter with my father unless it's face-to-face and they don't live in the same area so I've to wait until either he visits them or they visit him. It's torturing me. It's taking too long. I want to get it over and done with so I can decide quickly if I want to kick them all to the curb or if I can attempt this.

If my father has something to say, feels the slightest bit bad and wants to make it up to me then I think this situation is salvageable.

If not, I think it's too hard for me to have a relationship with them if they aren't going to be angry with him. Only time will tell.

MissShihTzu

chris525 wrote: »

Well that's what I want to do but my grandparents are not allowing it. They are forcing the middle ground.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything. It's your choice how to handle this from your own perspective.

chris525 wrote: »

They refuse to discuss the matter with my father unless it's face-to-face and they don't live in the same area so I've to wait until either he visits them or they visit him. It's torturing me. It's taking too long. I want to get it over and done with so I can decide quickly if I want to kick them all to the curb or if I can attempt this.

Fair comment. A situation as sensitive as this, can ONLY be discussed face-to face. How else is it to be handled? You've waited for years for an explanation - another few days/weeks/months will not matter.

chris525 wrote: »

If my father has something to say, feels the slightest bit bad and wants to make it up to me then I think this situation is salvageable.

I agree with you. I don't know about the feeling bad bit. I'm not saying either way what he did was good or bad, but your father probably had his reasons. Why don't you wait and hear what he has to say? You can make up your mind from there.

chris525 wrote: »

If not, I think it's too hard for me to have a relationship with them if they aren't going to be angry with him. Only time will tell.

For me, this is an odd comment. Why are you expecting people to be angry with your father? You don't know what his side is, neither do your grandparents. That is why they want to speak to him.

Personally, I think you should step away completely. All this anger is not healthy. I think you should get further counselling - get another one if the one you have isn't working for you. You need peace and healing and all this angst about your father and whether your grandparents should paint his house or whatever isn't helping you.

I hope it works out. I really do. Good luck!

chris525

MissShihTzu wrote: »

Nobody is forcing you to do anything. It's your choice how to handle this from your own perspective.



Fair comment. A situation as sensitive as this, can ONLY be discussed face-to face. How else is it to be handled? You've waited for years for an explanation - another few days/weeks/months will not matter.



I agree with you. I don't know about the feeling bad bit. I'm not saying either way what he did was good or bad, but your father probably had his reasons. Why don't you wait and hear what he has to say? You can make up your mind from there.



For me, this is an odd comment. Why are you expecting people to be angry with your father? You don't know what his side is, neither do your grandparents. That is why they want to speak to him.

Personally, I think you should step away completely. All this anger is not healthy. I think you should get further counselling - get another one if the one you have isn't working for you. You need peace and healing and all this angst about your father and whether your grandparents should paint his house or whatever isn't helping you.

I hope it works out. I really do. Good luck!

Why would you hide the existence of a child from your family? He was already living 8 hours away. The reasons can't be good.

I'm willing to hear his side of the story but the fact remains that he kept this from his family and lied to my mother about it. I should hope that he feels bad.

He asked for my phone number when I was 18 and I said no because it was such a deadbeat thing to do - wait until the kid is 18. He didn't cross my mind for most of my life it's just my mother did something awful to me this year and it made me question things.

I guess it's the ego/rage that I'm someone's secret love child and that he got away with this and he kept it a secret and went on with his life as if I didn't exist.

I'll see what he has to say but at the end of the day I might have to kick them all to the curb.

chris525

MissShihTzu wrote: »

A situation as sensitive as this, can ONLY be discussed face-to face. How else is it to be handled?

Why does it need to be sensitive? Why not just phone him and tell him off? This situation is all his doing. Why be sensitive?

MissShihTzu

chris525 wrote: »

Well that's what I want to do but my grandparents are not allowing it. They are forcing the middle ground.

They refuse to discuss the matter with my father unless it's face-to-face and they don't live in the same area so I've to wait until either he visits them or they visit him. It's torturing me. It's taking too long. I want to get it over and done with so I can decide quickly if I want to kick them all to the curb or if I can attempt this.

If my father has something to say, feels the slightest bit bad and wants to make it up to me then I think this situation is salvageable.

If not, I think it's too hard for me to have a relationship with them if they aren't going to be angry with him. Only time will tell.

chris525 wrote: »

Why does it need to be sensitive? Why not just phone him and tell him off? This situation is all his doing. Why be sensitive?

Tell him off for what? Presumably, your father is a grown man. And you DON'T KNOW the situation at the time!! Look - I've been in your situation. My father had THREE other children much older than I that we knew nothing about until we were much older. Adults in fact! One has since died but I have an excellent relationship with my two sisters who live in another country.

You need to let this go. You are now being irrational as well as angry, and I'm sorry I can't help any further.

You need peace. I hope you get it.

chris525

MissShihTzu wrote: »

Tell him off for what? Presumably, your father is a grown man. And you DON'T KNOW the situation at the time!! Look - I've been in your situation. My father had THREE other children much older than I that we knew nothing about until we were much older. Adults in fact! One has since died but I have an excellent relationship with my two sisters who live in another country.

You need to let this go. You are now being irrational as well as angry, and I'm sorry I can't help any further.

You need peace. I hope you get it.

Tell him off for being a complete failure as a decent human being. How could someone keep such secrets and how could they be there for one child but not the other?

Telly

chris525 wrote: »

Tell him off for being a complete failure as a decent human being. How could someone keep such secrets and how could they be there for one child but not the other?

This has happened over and over again to many people in all walks of life. You need to forget about the past and look into the future. If you want to build a relationship with them then do but let go of what has gone on.

And you have no right to get angry on who's house they want to paint, that simply is none of your business. Oh and find a new counselor, that one seems to be useless.