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The Wednesday Night War *Spoilers for AEW and NXT*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Last week’s AEW wasn’t bad but it was very meh. I watched the two live at the same time and NXT was constantly grabbing me and AEW losing me (and I’ve been really into Dynamite). The worry is that they’re running out of game-changing ideas. They do solid, traditional booking and execute well, match quality is always high, but that’s not necessarily stuff that grabs people and gets social media buzzing. Nobody texts their mates to tell them how solid something is.

    It’s a tough spot to be in because they’ve kinda earned their following by doing the basics really well, if they start doing stunts it could come across unnatural or desperate. They can’t just go after ex-WWE lads either because that’s very WCW/TNA. I don’t think they’re going anywhere, but I’d hoped we’d get a year or so of fun before it got to “Well we weren’t REALLY trying to compete anyway” and lads looking to cosy back up to WWE. Hopefully they stop the rot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,389 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Nxt to me has never and hopefully never will do anything that's embarrassing awful. I think that's because of triple h, regal, and HBK being a part of nxt will stop them doing stupid stuff that to me as a longtime wrestling fan is embarrassing.

    I hope AEW succeeds I do, but I'm worried about the fact that the wrestlers as in positions of power. We've seen how this movie can end before with WCW. I hope I'm wrong but it's not likes it's never happened before. Tony Khan for all his talents isn't triple h or regal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    I said it here months back and got absolutely lambasted, it’s all stuff we’ve seen before: inmates run the asylum with someone else’s chequebook, jobs for the boys, high profile lads sign from WWE, do ‘shoot interviews’ and make digs that please the smarks. Kurt Angle was Chris Jericho, Jeff Jarrett was Cody and Christian was Moxley in TNA (now all get paid by WWE).

    They’ve got resources and smarts though so if they can be introspective enough to acknowledge this in themselves they can switch up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,755 ✭✭✭✭Hello 2D Person Below


    Any company that has The Young Bucks and Kenny Omega in a position of authority is pissing into the wind.

    Cody has the smarts, but the other three are jokers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,389 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    leggo wrote: »
    I said it here months back and got absolutely lambasted, it’s all stuff we’ve seen before: inmates run the asylum with someone else’s chequebook, jobs for the boys, high profile lads sign from WWE, do ‘shoot interviews’ and make digs that please the smarks. Kurt Angle was Chris Jericho, Jeff Jarrett was Cody and Christian was Moxley in TNA (now all get paid by WWE).

    They’ve got resources and smarts though so if they can be introspective enough to acknowledge this in themselves they can switch up.

    Why ? You're not wrong leggo. For all vince's faults and there have been many and will be more I've no doubt about it, but the one thing that WWE had that WCW didn't was that one guy was in charge and he had the final say on things. I'm not saying everything WWE did in the attitude era and prior to it was 24 Carat gold but there was a defined chain of command for lack of a better word. WCW never seemed to have that or at least it got less and less as it went along. I mean at times in the late 1990's WCW was spending Ted turners money like drunk sailors on shore leave.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 39,389 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Any company that has The Young Bucks and Kenny Omega in a position of authority is pissing into the wind.

    Cody has the smarts, but the other three are jokers.

    Cody should have the smarts given his family history. Just because he knows how it should be done to be successful doesn't mean he'll do it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,611 ✭✭✭✭ERG89


    Wouldn't be scape goating Omega & the Bucks for the rating last week. If anything the show in general (including Cody) has felt directionless since the last PPV.
    Only Jericho has had a clear path with his title run. Lucha Bros, Page, The Bucks & Omega should be booked stronger even if people inevitably moaned about them putting themselves over it's the right thing to do. Same with giving Jericho the title, you first must confirm who your stars are to help create your next stars.

    As far as creative goes nobody is perfect. Vince gets more things wrong than he does right which is why WWE is often ice cold for most of the last 2 decades. The show very much reflects a man who has now lost his memory.
    Gedo gets a lot of praise (rightfully so) but has got a lot wrong too with title importance, tag teams & poorly reading the landscape at key moments, several times.
    Maybe HHH could amount to something but at the end of the day they had to put NXT over at Survivor Series for a reason.

    I won't discuss clowns like Bischoff or Russo as anyone who thinks they can offer something in 2019 needs to get their head checked. The likes of JR, Prichard & Cornette are all well past their sell by date too.
    Who else is there working in creative in the U.S. now?
    ROH is a disaster with Bully & Delirious in charge. Lagana I wouldn't touch with a barge pole either.
    Scott D'amore has done a good job with Impact as has Court Bauer with MLW but neither of those shows are weekly TV where you need to react to the ups & downs. This is their first kick in the teeth & they need to react to it, not throw their dummies out like others will.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭sky88


    eventually jericho will go back on tour and i think that could hit them hard as hes been a lynchpin for them especially entertainment wise and obviously has the star power no one else has in the company

    in ring isn't going to win this war as both are pretty solid on that its the company with the best stories

    plus with wwe the roster is that stacked they can just put kevin owens, aj styles, cesaro etc could take a trip down to NXT if the ratings take a hit which AEW cant really do so its why i think there stories and new character building need to improve which i think its starting to do


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭sirmanga


    So amusing seeing the AEW diehards make every excuse for the dire rating.
    "It was the day before Thanksgiving"
    Yes, but NXT still did a better number.
    "AEW are doing better with the younger demo."
    Yeah, whatever, who cares.
    "NXT cheated because they have exposure on main roster WWE TV."
    All that says to me is that AEW can only compete with the third brand, minor league version of WWE. And so what if WWE are using everything at their disposal to elevate NXT. AEW are running at half speed. Barely there storylines and match after match. Why would people stick around to watch that?

    Honestly, AEW fans are becoming like a woman who's found lipstick on her husband's collar, noticed his new haircut, and wonders why he's working late every evening.
    No matter what you say, they don't want to believe what they already know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,773 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    But AEW introduced The Blade and the Butcher! How can the ratings be down? It's the Blade and the Butcher!

    Seriously though, when you think about it, I know it's still early, but how many guys in AEW made their name elsewhere and how many are AEW Originals? I mean that in the same way TNA had their TNA Originals in AJ, Joe, Daniels, Abyss, Eric Young, etc.
    Off the top of my head I can think of MJF, Sammy Guevera, Darby Allin and Orange Cassidy, who hasn't even had a proper match yet. A couple women as well like Britt Baker. I think out of those Darby and MJF are worth watching AEW for.
    It's not entirely AEW's fault though since WWE just got to everyone first. If NXT and AEW both started signing guys at the same time it would be a different story


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    sirmanga wrote: »
    So amusing seeing the AEW diehards make every excuse for the dire rating.
    "It was the day before Thanksgiving"
    Yes, but NXT still did a better number.
    "AEW are doing better with the younger demo."
    Yeah, whatever, who cares.
    "NXT cheated because they have exposure on main roster WWE TV."
    All that says to me is that AEW can only compete with the third brand, minor league version of WWE. And so what if WWE are using everything at their disposal to elevate NXT. AEW are running at half speed. Barely there storylines and match after match. Why would people stick around to watch that?

    Honestly, AEW fans are becoming like a woman who's found lipstick on her husband's collar, noticed his new haircut, and wonders why he's working late every evening.
    No matter what you say, they don't want to believe what they already know.

    What’s worse is seeing supposed journalists do this. If fans want to live or die with a company, that’s fine and I can even respect it. But these are people whose job is supposed to be objectively reporting the fact and they’re publicly scrambling to make excuses for a company that just co-opted them. VOW and Brian Alvarez are embarrassing themselves with some of their reactions. Like at least Meltzer is actually mates with the lads, you can almost understand him defending his friends. These are lads who got backstage passes to All-In and a bit of mark treatment for one night and are ****ting on their own objectivity a couple years later.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭sky88


    the die hard fans on both sides are so painful like just accept when one wins one week on another this excuse making is absolute cringe inducing like if aew won this week in the over 50s and nxt in the under 30s theyd be talking about the important over 50 demos

    ive my own opinions that younger people dont like wrestling anymore and its mainly late 20s and onwards that are staying fans were most are dropping off around 12ish


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭sky88


    Of all the weeks to run this also this of real cause you never know these days is very TNA


    https://twitter.com/thenextblgthing/status/1202067431339855872


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭sirmanga


    I'm starting to get a whiff of Voodoo Kin Mafia from AEW.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,389 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    So I see the fears I had for AEW in relation to Tony Khan may have come through which is unfortunate. It's only one incident so hopefully that's it but they'd want to be careful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    So I see the fears I had for AEW in relation to Tony Khan may have come through which is unfortunate. It's only one incident so hopefully that's it but they'd want to be careful.

    Care to expand on this train of thought?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭sky88


    Lithium93_ wrote: »
    Care to expand on this train of thought?


    Might be something to do with this

    no real problems with it but id be more worried about the empty seats even with after the show i doubt that many left

    https://twitter.com/AlexM_talkSPORT/status/1207590739737223168?s=20


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭Cherry_Cola


    Lithium93_ wrote: »
    Care to expand on this train of thought?


    I don't know, the above seems like strong wording for a bunch of wrestlers and the owner letting the hair down after a show and popping a crowd.


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    sky88 wrote: »
    Might be something to do with this

    no real problems with it but id be more worried about the empty seats even with after the show i doubt that many left

    https://twitter.com/AlexM_talkSPORT/status/1207590739737223168?s=20

    So Tony Khan, a huge Stone Cold fan goes out to the ring, when AEW has gone off air, hits a Stunner on Shawn Spears, on Austin's 55 birthday no less, and, the way Itssoeasy had posted, I thought Khan had done something worse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    I don't know, the above seems like strong wording for a bunch of wrestlers and the owner letting the hair down after a show and popping a crowd.

    As already posted above, I thought he'd done something worse.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 39,389 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Lithium93_ wrote: »
    Care to expand on this train of thought?

    Well as others have said it happened after the show was over but whose to say it won't happen on live national TV soon ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Well as others have said it happened after the show was over but whose to say it won't happen on live national TV soon ?

    I'd like to think that Tony Khan is a lot more sensible than you've given him credit for with your above, to not go and do what he did on live TV.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Well as others have said it happened after the show was over but whose to say it won't happen on live national TV soon ?

    You can't criticize a company for something imaginary that might happen. That's just silly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,389 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Lithium93_ wrote: »
    I'd like to think that Tony Khan is a lot more sensible than you've given him credit for with your above, to not go and do what he did on live TV.

    I do too as I've said I want AEW to be a long term pro wrestling company. That's why I wasn't a fan of him doing it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,773 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    I was gonna post this in the AEW thread but since comparing to NXT, will post here.
    I realised tonight that AEW may be competing with NXT but they seem more similar to Raw and Smackdown. By that I mean we seem to get the same guys in the ring every week while NXT seems to be every other week for a lot of guys.
    Take this week for example. In NXT we didn't get a lot of the big names such as UE except for Cole. No Ciampa, Riddle or Lee.
    Same for the women. No Candice, Bianca or Tegan.
    Yet they did a good show.

    Over in the AEW thread there was mention about giving Cody or Kenny the title. With the amount of tv time they get as it is, how would the title promote them? We already seem to be getting through every combination of match with a lot of them and some already seem repetitive.
    I know it's still early but if feel like this already, I can't see much changing the longer it goes on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    I do too as I've said I want AEW to be a long term pro wrestling company. That's why I wasn't a fan of him doing it.

    They will be, but it'll be a bumpy road in a constantly evolving landscape, and anyways it was harmless fun, can't a boss of a company not have some fun himself?

    Storm in a tea cup over something harmless.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭sky88




  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,710 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    sky88 wrote: »

    Ouch for the 50 plus argument.


  • Registered Users Posts: 60,261 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Bad for both shows for sure


    NXT threw away a Takeover level PPV this week and only drew that number that doesn't look good.


    More worrying is there is close to 50% walkaway from both shows by fans.


    2 million on a Monday 1.5ish on a Wednesday and 2m on a Friday wrestling isn't adding new viewers whats the chances it's the same 2 million people watching it all.



    Wrestling in general isn't a draw anymore anywhere on TV.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭sky88


    Seen a tweet earlier saying the 3rd hour of raw has more viewers than nxt/aew which I think says it all about wrestling.


    There’s more money in wrestling than ever before but honestly feel it’ll hit rock bottom soon wrestling just isn’t as popular anymore regardless of how good shows are or aren’t


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