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One year on from Ms Cash's impassioned speech

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    #212
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,792 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I don't think there's any point in blaming Cash for any of this. Traveller women start knocking out kids in their teens and aren't given any chances to interact with the real world. So how is she supposed to work or get an education?


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    #213
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I don't think there's any point in blaming Cash for any of this. Traveller women start knocking out kids in their teens and aren't given any chances to interact with the real world. So how is she supposed to work or get an education?

    Where's the benefit for the likes of her getting a job? A job won't provide as much for her and her family as the State will.


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    #214
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,792 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Where's the benefit for the likes of her getting a job? A job won't provide as much for her and her family as the State will.

    Well she never had a chance to get a job because she was knocked up as a teenager


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    #215
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Well she never had a chance to get a job because she was knocked up as a teenager


    And to hell with the consequences. Mr. Taxpayer will pick up the tab.

    The system needs to be changed to disinsentivise people from choosing this kind of lifestyle.


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    #216
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,792 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    And to hell with the consequences. Mr. Taxpayer will pick up the tab.

    The system needs to be changed to disinsentivise people from choosing this kind of lifestyle.

    Well she didn't choose it. Traveller women don't have a choice. They are oppressed.


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    #217
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Well she didn't choose it. Traveller women don't have a choice. They are oppressed.

    Oppressed by other travellers.

    I didn't stop her from going to school. The State put up no impediment to her going to school. You didn't stop her from going to school and getting an education. In fact, if you are in your 40's, you probably chipped in for her to go to school.

    Who oppressed her?


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    #218
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,792 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Oppressed by other travellers.

    I didn't stop her from going to school. The State put up no impediment to her going to school. You didn't stop her from going to school and getting an education. In fact, if you are in your 40's, you probably chipped in for her to go to school.

    Who oppressed her?

    Traveller culture means she's uneducated and pregnant as a teen. What chance did she have really? What was she going to do, run away and make it on her own with no support network?


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    #219
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Traveller culture means she's uneducated and pregnant as a teen. What chance did she have really? What was she going to do, run away and make it on her own with no support network?

    Traveller culture is now protected as an ethnic minority to insure that young girls will be married off and pregnant before the age of 18. Why is this government policy?
    I can see Margret being very disappointed if she is not a grandmother by the time her daughter turns 17.


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    #220
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Traveller culture means she's uneducated and pregnant as a teen. What chance did she have really? What was she going to do, run away and make it on her own with no support network?

    So, she was oppressed by travellers because it's their culture to oppress women. And oppress men if they try get education and jobs. Yet the State continually gets the blame because of the 'plight' of the travellers.

    Loads of facilities are there for travellers to abandon the harmful elements of their culture but they won't do it because it's easier to stay a traveller. It's easier to go around with the hand out rather than doing a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. That's an absolutely alien concept for them.

    How are the settled community supposed to help then? The only solution I can see is to force them to abandon their culture and to row in with the rest of society.


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    #221
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,792 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    So, she was oppressed by travellers because it's their culture to oppress women. And oppress men if they try get education and jobs. Yet the State continually gets the blame because of the 'plight' of the travellers.

    Loads of facilities are there for travellers to abandon the harmful elements of their culture but they won't do it because it's easier to stay a traveller. It's easier to go around with the hand out rather than doing a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. That's an absolutely alien concept for them.

    How are the settled community supposed to help then? The only solution I can see is to force them to abandon their culture and to row in with the rest of society.

    It's a tough nut to crack alright, I can't think of any viable solutions. That said, I still think it's unfair to blame Cash for the situation she ended up in, it couldn't really have ended up any other way, she had no opportunities as any other way of life is discouraged by other travellers.


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    #222
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,792 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    tuxy wrote: »
    Traveller culture is now protected as an ethnic minority to insure that young girls will be married off and pregnant before the age of 18. Why is this government policy?
    I can see Margret being very disappointed if she is not a grandmother by the time her daughter turns 17.

    Whether the Gov recognised them as an ethnic minority or not they'd still be married off and pregnant in their teens.


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    #223
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,988 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    tuxy wrote: »
    Traveller culture is now protected as an ethnic minority to insure that young girls will be married off and pregnant before the age of 18. Why is this government policy?
    I can see Margret being very disappointed if she is not a grandmother by the time her daughter turns 17.

    it's the traveler people who are protected as an ethnic minority, not the culture itself. and the protection is not to insure young girls will be married off and pregnant before the age of 18.
    you only need to take a look at some of the posts from people on this site over the years to know why such protection became government policy and was implimented.
    BattleCorp wrote: »
    So, she was oppressed by travellers because it's their culture to oppress women. And oppress men if they try get education and jobs. Yet the State continually gets the blame because of the 'plight' of the travellers.

    Loads of facilities are there for travellers to abandon the harmful elements of their culture but they won't do it because it's easier to stay a traveller. It's easier to go around with the hand out rather than doing a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. That's an absolutely alien concept for them.

    How are the settled community supposed to help then? The only solution I can see is to force them to abandon their culture and to row in with the rest of society.

    something that couldn't actually be done in reality and practice. it would be an unachievable goal.
    thankfully the harmful elements of their culture are already against the law so those parts can be and to an extent are dealt with.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #224
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,792 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    By the way is it legal to keep a feckin' horse in a house in Tallaght or whatever it is? Don't you need licences? I feel awful for the poor thing.


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    #225
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    By the way is it legal to keep a feckin' horse in a house in Tallaght or whatever it is? Don't you need licences? I feel awful for the poor thing.
    Ponies are Hardy creatures. They live outside most of the year on most farms, as long as they have a dry stand and ideally a rug, I wouldn't be the slightest bit concerned.

    The people who tend to abuse horses tend to be those with no experience of them. We sold a pony to the travellers years ago, still today I wouldn't think twice about it if I knew them. In fact, there's an obvious solution to lack of traveller participation in the workforce and that's to get them involved with racing yards and other equestrian sports from a young age.


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    #226
    pgj2015
    Registered Users Posts: 8,952 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    one thing that can be done is cut the child benefit after your second child, there is nothing to deter them having 10 plus kids.


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    #227
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    one thing that can be done is cut the child benefit after your second child, there is nothing to deter them having 10 plus kids.

    Then they increase their level of crime to compensate, exactly what we need.


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    #228
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,792 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    one thing that can be done is cut the child benefit after your second child, there is nothing to deter them having 10 plus kids.

    I really don't think that would stop them, plus more poverty would lead to more problems


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    #229
    HailSatan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 328 ✭✭HailSatan


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Ponies are Hardy creatures. They live outside most of the year on most farms, as long as they have a dry stabd and ideally a rug, I wouldn't be the slightest bit concerned.
    .

    You're saying the Cash forever home has a stable or stables?


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    #230
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I really don't think that would stop them, plus more poverty would lead to more problems

    I agree just like people say more prisons and longer sentences will lower crime, it doesn't.


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    #231
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    HailSatan wrote: »
    You're saying the Cash forever home has a stable or stables?

    Maybe it's standard policy now since that incident(still ongoing?) just outside Thurles


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    #232
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,752 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    HailSatan wrote: »
    You're saying the Cash forever home has a stable or stables?


    Lets be honest, the horse will be lucky if it gets fed. Costs a nice amount to feed a horse you know.


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    #233
    pgj2015
    Registered Users Posts: 8,952 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    tuxy wrote: »
    Then they increase their level of crime to compensate, exactly what we need.




    you cant pander to them, if they want to commit more crime then thrown them in jail like anyone else who commits crime.


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    #234
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Deebles McBeebles wrote: »
    Lets be honest, the horse will be lucky if it gets fed. Costs a nice amount to feed a horse you know.

    In fairness she probably will try to look after it but then end up feeding it pop tarts every morning.


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    #235
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    you cant pander to them, if they want to commit more crime then thrown them in jail like anyone else who commits crime.

    Prisons are full.....


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    #236
    HailSatan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 328 ✭✭HailSatan


    end of the road wrote: »
    it's the traveler people who are protected as an ethnic minority, not the culture itself. and the protection is not to insure young girls will be married off and pregnant before the age of 18.
    you only need to take a look at some of the posts from people on this site over the years to know why such protection became government policy and was implimented.



    something that couldn't actually be done in reality and practice. it would be an unachievable goal.
    thankfully the harmful elements of their culture are already against the law so those parts can be and to an extent are dealt with.

    I thought their culture was a key point in them being recognised as separate and distinct from us?


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    #237
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    HailSatan wrote: »
    I thought their culture was a key point in them being recognised as separate and distinct from us?

    I know they have high levels of inbreeding but even still genetically there is very little to differentiate them from the rest of the Irish population. It's only their culture that makes them different in any way.


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    #238
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    HailSatan wrote: »
    You're saying the Cash forever home has a stable or stables?
    Stand. Like a hard stand where they can get their legs out of the mud. Beyond that, natural shelter is often sufficient. Ponies don't need stabling as a general rule. A small child can mind a pony, that's why they're such good companions for kids. Teach you a bit of responsibility too..


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    #239
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    end of the road wrote: »
    thankfully the harmful elements of their culture are already against the law so those parts can be and to an extent are dealt with.

    Interesting that you note how the parts of their culture that are against the law are dealt with only "to an extent."

    Travellers routinely get away with things that Revenue and the Gardai would absolutely crucify a settled person for.


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    #240
    pgj2015
    Registered Users Posts: 8,952 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    i would Love to see a three strike rule here like they gave in the U.S


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    #241
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    i would Love to see a three strike rule here like they gave in the U.S

    Yes, life in prison for possession of weed has completely stopped all use of the drug in the states with such laws.
    Many states are contractually obliged to fill all the prisons outsourced to large powerful companies and the three strike rule is there to ensure that cells are not left empty.


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