how to futureproof a house when doing new build

FrankPoll.

No it won't tell you much about price

But are you saying it has nothing to do with the network or not?

KCross

FrankPoll. wrote: »

No it won't tell you much about price

But are you saying it has nothing to do with the network or not?

As I said, to my knowledge, its just a billing thing.

If you get tagged as DG2 then you are a rural customer and so you pay the higher standing charge. Thats all it means.


antoin's own quote from the ESB is fairly clear...

4.1.1 Urban Domestic Connections
Urban domestic connections are defined as domestic connections that are fed from three-phase overhead or underground LV network. This rule ignores the service which may be single or three phase.

DG1 designation tells the Op nothing in relation to 3ph.

FrankPoll.

KCross wrote: »

As I said, to my knowledge, its just a billing thing.

If you get tagged as DG2 then you are a rural customer and so you pay the higher standing charge. Thats all it means.


antoin's own quote from the ESB is fairly clear...

4.1.1 Urban Domestic Connections
Urban domestic connections are defined as domestic connections that are fed from three-phase overhead or underground LV network. This rule ignores the service which may be single or three phase.

DG1 designation tells the Op nothing in relation to 3ph.

You're mixed up there anyhow

It states a connection to the 3 phase network

The service is the supply entering the premises which can be either 1P or 3P

The network is stated as 3p overhead or under

I'm more curious than anythinh

KCross

FrankPoll. wrote: »

You're mixed up there

It states a connection to the 3 phase network

The service is the supply entering the premises which can be either 1P or 3P

I'm more curious than anythinh

There are two "or's" in the statement. Read the first line again. It doesnt say 3ph via overhead or underground... it says 3ph overhead or underground LV. That under ground LV can be 1ph or 3ph.


DG1 does not necessarily mean you are connected to the 3ph network.

FrankPoll.

3P overhead or underground LV

Means 3P 380v overhead or underground not 1P


Like I said im only in it for the debate, never heard before a definition

FrankPoll.

KCross wrote: »

As I said, to my knowledge, its just a billing thing.

If you get tagged as DG2 then you are a rural customer and so you pay the higher standing charge. Thats all it means.


antoin's own quote from the ESB is fairly clear...

4.1.1 Urban Domestic Connections
Urban domestic connections are defined as domestic connections that are fed from three-phase overhead or underground LV network. This rule ignores the service which may be single or three phase.

DG1 designation tells the Op nothing in relation to 3ph.

Dg1 there means a 1P or 3P service from the house connecting to an overhead or underground 3P network

Its fairly clear to me

KCross

FrankPoll. wrote: »

3P overhead or underground LV

Means 3P 380v overhead or underground not 1P


Like I said im only in it for the debate, never heard before a definition

I dont read it that way.

We're just spinning our wheels now really.

Ultimately, the Op would like 3ph and that requires a quote from ESB networks and DG1 or DG2 is going to have zero influence on that quote.

It could be a case that a DG2 customer would get connected cheaper than the Op on DG1. For example, if he was in a housing estate it might have a 3ph connection somewhere feeding it but 1ph LV to his house so it would require phishing cables underground... its not like the 3 phases are outside every DG1 customers door just waiting to be connected up. It could be 100s of metres away. The whole DG1/DG2 thing is a red herring for the Op.

FrankPoll.

I'm 30 years reading esbn handbooks and electrical regulations

The dg1 statement is simple and self explanatory to my reading, not sure about spinning wheels

KCross

FrankPoll. wrote: »

I'm 30 years reading esbn handbooks and electrical regulations

The dg1 statement is simple and self explanatory to my reading, not sure about spinning wheels

I think we've come to a conclusion on the subject then!

As I said, its irrelevant to this thread whether the Op is DG1 or DG2.

air

KCross wrote: »

antoin's own quote from the ESB is fairly clear...

4.1.1 Urban Domestic Connections
Urban domestic connections are defined as domestic connections that are fed from three-phase overhead or underground LV network. This rule ignores the service which may be single or three phase.

I do read that as DG1 means you are supplied from a 3 phase transformer.

However I'm also in agreement with Kcross that it's of no relevance in predicting an upgrade quote.

Will check out the profile/DG on the commercial bill later out of interest. The ones I checked had the same standing charges which would indicate to me the DG was the same.

antoinolachtnai

air wrote: »

I do read that as DG1 means you are supplied from a 3 phase transformer.

However I'm also in agreement with Kcross that it's of no relevance in predicting an upgrade quote.

Will check out the profile/DG on the commercial bill later out of interest. The ones I checked had the same standing charges which would indicate to me the DG was the same.

No difference in tariff on commercial between rural and urban networks. Most (230000 odd) are DG5. 20000 or so are DG6 (larger users). A few thousand large sites make up the others, which are mostly large customers. There's also unmetered.

air

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

No difference in tariff on commercial between rural and urban networks. Most (230000 odd) are DG5. 20000 or so are DG6 (larger users). A few thousand large sites make up the others, which are mostly large customers. There's also unmetered.

Yes, all DG5 irrespective of MIC, location (urban/rural) or number of phases available.

0lddog

Do the retail tariffs that are listed on Bonkers and the like apply equally to 3p and 1p supplies - or just to 1p supplies ?

With regard to the original topic of the thread ( ) I'd suggest paying considerable attention to the hot water pipe run lengths.

( A peev of mine is where I am at present it is necessary to run off around 3 liters of water before hot water comes out of the hot tap in the kitchen. Its a waste of cold water and a waste of hot water )

catharsis

Just to update (and thanks to all of the contributors for an interesting aside about DGs :-) )

I have requested an upgrade to 16KVA and 3PH from ESB, I will revert with the quote to the thread for information, I was also told I had only an 8KVA connection to the house which was a surprise given we have an existing EVSE.

I will also request the architect to let me know whether it is possible in some way to have a 'divided fuseboard' so that I can connected the EVSE, any future Solar connections etc outside the house in an area outside the airtight envelope.

If I am specifically asking what to do here would that be requesting something like an additional "distribution board" ?

air

What i'd recommend doing would be the following:

1. Relocate the meter to an external cabinet away from your house.
This will ease meter reading, reduce intrusion from same and most importantly mean that any future works that you carry out from then on will not need to involve ESB.
It also simplifies insulation and air tightness detailing for your architect.
It should be mandatory at this stage IMHO, makes life easier for everyone.

2. Locate a small sub board within the meter enclosure with your main customer fuse together with an outgoing circuit for both your house and your EVSE / outdoor board.

IIRC the few breakers within the meter enclosure may be against regs strictly speaking but I've never heard of it being raised as an issue in practice and I don't see any problem myself.

16kVA sounds too small for 3 phase, it wouldn't be a standard option.
It would cause issues for you as you couldn't run a lot of standard domestic single phase appliances - electric shower, 7.2kW EVSE etc.

catharsis

air wrote: »

What i'd recommend doing would be the following:

1. Relocate the meter to an external cabinet away from your house.
This will ease meter reading, reduce intrusion from same and most importantly mean that any future works that you carry out from then on will not need to involve ESB.
It also simplifies insulation and air tightness detailing for your architect.
It should be mandatory at this stage IMHO, makes life easier for everyone.

2. Locate a small sub board within the meter enclosure with your main customer fuse together with an outgoing circuit for both your house and your EVSE / outdoor board.

IIRC the few breakers within the meter enclosure may be against regs strictly speaking but I've never heard of it being raised as an issue in practice and I don't see any problem myself.

16kVA sounds too small for 3 phase, it wouldn't be a standard option.
It would cause issues for you as you couldn't run a lot of standard domestic single phase appliances - electric shower, 7.2kW EVSE etc.

Firstly many thanks for the above

Secondly just to confirm that the ESB engineer had a site visit today and verbally let me know that the upgrade to 3 phase would be "whatever the minimum charge is" in effect - because the lamppost directly across the street has 3 phase supply.

This might be useful information for anyone else considering an upgrade and/or installing an EVSE in particular.

air

No problem, happy to help.
I'd recommend revising your application up to 29kVA if you're going ahead at 3 phase anyway.

This will give you decent charge rates with a 3ph EV and good single phase capacity also.

On commercial supplies at least the PSO levy is the same flat rate up to 29kVA.

It shouldn't be a problem getting a revised quote at this stage.