Poor diction by radio presenters

the_pen_turner

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by that. In some local towns around down home, Borrisokane is pronounced Burris-ikane by almost everyone except outsiders; Cloughjordan is Cloughjurdan, and some people still say Nayna instead of Nenagh.

This would be deemed all wrong by some people on this thread, but it's not.

The Irish for the first stem of Borrisokane is Buirís, which is much closer to the local usage of BUrris--
The Irish for Cloughjordan is Cloch Shiurdáin - again explaining the unexpected letter U in local pronunciation.
The Irish for Nenagh is An t-Aonach, AO in Irish is pronounced AY. This explains the AY sound in Nayna.

A question for for anyone who thinks the locals are wrong. How do you pronounce Birr (Biorra)? Presumably you don't say that phonetically to English (almost only foreign tourists do). The IO in Biorra makes a - yuh- sound in Irish, which is the closest we have to the letter U in Irish -- so it's Burr as in fur and not Birr as in the first syllable of mirror.

I suspect if you ask the locals to pronounce a lot of most local placenames, it won't resemble at all the local pronunciation.

How often does someone on the radio say Weshtport?

Maybe your point is that media should be using local pronounciation, but that would deemed wrong by a lot of people here.

I agree with your pronunciation of those places. The people butchering names are local . They should know better. It's not the small local workers ways to say something that's the problem its more total butchering

dxhound2005

The locals in Fukushima say Foo Koosh Ma. RTE, BBC and others say Foo Koo Shee Ma. Who is doing the butchering there?

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Only one flaw in that argument Tee, the locals don’t call it Gurt.

Ah, I'm thinking of Gortnahoe Co. Tipperary. A rookie mistake. It is the Tipperary version that is pronounced Gurt. The Galway version is apparently pronounced Gort. Curious why that difference might exist, I now read that Gort (Co. Galway) was planted, and the town created, by an officer on the victorious side of the Battle of The Boyne.

Literally Brits of the west. I'm saying nothing.

the_pen_turner

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I agree with your pronunciation of those places. The people butchering names are local . They should know better. It's not the small local workers ways to say something that's the problem its more total butchering

I wasn't clear - I don't agree with the non-local pronunciation. I accept that regional variations exist, and ought to exist.

My problem is with people saying there should only be one pronunciation of anything. I don't agree, because that would eventually lead to a general Dublin accent across Ireland. Apart from a decline in Irish, I can think of no more an undesirable notion in the sociology of language in Ireland than the Dublinification (pronounced Jackeenification) of the regions.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The locals in Fukushima say Foo Koosh Ma. RTE, BBC and others say Foo Koo Shee Ma. Who is doing the butchering there?

Nobody. That's the point.

Two people can pronounce the same word in different ways for legitimate reason. This is called 'accent' or 'dialect'. It is not a new concept.

Brendan Bendar

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I wasn't clear - I don't agree with the non-local pronunciation. I accept that regional variations exist, and ought to exist.

My problem is with people saying there should only be one pronunciation of anything. I don't agree, because that would eventually lead to a general Dublin accent across Ireland. Apart from a decline in Irish, I can think of no more an undesirable notion in the sociology of language in Ireland than the Dublinification (pronounced Jackeenification) of the regions.


Nobody. That's the point.

Two people can pronounce the same word in different ways for legitimate reason. This is called 'accent' or 'dialect'. It is not a new concept.

Nobody saying there should be only one pronunciation of anything.

What the boy was saying is on National radio they should be able to get the pronunciation correct.

No interest in what the locals incorrectly call it.... Fizzboro.....Chapelizard..

All this bolloxology about this that or the other in of no consequence

Just get it right on National Radio.

Not too much to ask, is it?

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Nobody saying there should be only one pronunciation of anything.

What the boy was saying is on National radio they should be able to get the pronunciation correct.

No interest in what the locals incorrectly call it.... Fizzboro.....Chapelizard..

All this bolloxology about this that or the other in of no consequence

Just get it right on National Radio.

Not too much to ask, is it?

National radio comprises practically all of the accents of the nation, and probably fairly proportionately as to population.

You're saying that ways of pronouncing words or place-names should only be heard in one standard way, which would inevitably carry through to local ways of speaking.

How on earth do you think the Dart accent has already come to my old national school in Tipperary? Because the Dart doesn't go there.

Irish accents are probably already converging. I see no reason to guillotine them altogether.

Brendan Bendar

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

National radio comprises practically all of the accents of the nation, and probably fairly proportionately as to population.

You're saying that ways of pronouncing words or place-names should only be heard in one standard way, which would inevitably carry through to local ways of speaking.

How on earth do you think the Dart accent has already come to my old national school in Tipperary? Because the Dart doesn't go there.

Irish accents are probably already converging. I see no reason to guillotine them altogether.

I’m saying that Phibsboro should be pronounced as Phibsboro

Chapelizod should be pronounced a Chapelizod



Are you suggesting that they should be pronounced as Fizzboro and Chapelizard
On. National. Radio

All the boy is saying is that someone takes the trouble to find what the accepted pronunciation is.

Eg Beagh outside Gort.... It’s BEH-ha. Not Beagg.

That’s all the boy is asking, no need to go into dialects, gerunds, diphthongs, inflections, accents.

Surely not.

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I’m saying that Phibsboro should be pronounced as Phibsboro

Chapelizod should be pronounced a Chapelizod



Are you suggesting that they should be pronounced as Fizzboro and Chapelizard
On. National. Radio

All the boy is saying is that someone takes the trouble to find what the accepted pronunciation is.

Eg Beagh outside Gort.... It’s BEH-ha. Not Beagg.

That’s all the boy is asking, no need to go into dialects, gerunds, diphthongs, inflections, accents.

Surely not.

No, I'm saying that people should embrace their local accents. Phibsboro comes from Phibbs Borough, an English name, and Fizzboro (which I'm not sure how common anyway) is obviously a mispronunciation and hardly an accent. Similarly, I'm not sure that Chapelizard is exactly ubiquitous in that part of Dublin. It seems like a mispronunciation, bearing no relation to the English or Irish, and probably not even being particular to any accent. It seems like it fits in with the previous point about 'unnatural' words like Chicago which don't ordinarily occur. Ditto the element - zod.

Brendan Bendar

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

No, I'm saying that people should embrace their local accents. Phibsboro comes from Phibbs Borough, an English name, and Fizzboro (which I'm not sure how common anyway) is obviously a mispronunciation and hardly an accent. Similarly, I'm not sure that Chapelizard is exactly ubiquitous in that part of Dublin. It seems like a mispronunciation, bearing no relation to the English or Irish, and probably not even being particular to any accent. It seems like it fits in with the previous point about 'unnatural' words like Chicago which don't ordinarily occur. Ditto the element - zod.

Ok there is a place called ‘Kilbeacanty’ in south Galway.

You are a newsreader on RTE .

“ A major landslide occurred in Kilbeacanty today”

How do you address the sentence above and pronounce the area name?

That’s what the boy is asking.

Brendan Bendar

storker wrote: »

One of the things that annoys me the most about RTE presenters and reporters (and I'm looking at Ciaran Mullooly in particular), is an inability to punctuate speech correctly, resulting it unnecessary pauses that break up the flow of speech e.g. "The car turned....into the side road and two people...got out." It's as if he's trying to insert pauses for effect but in all the wrong places.

Ever listen to Fergal Bowers?

The king of that stuff.

TheRiverman

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Ever listen to Fergal Bowers?

The king of that stuff.

Fergal Bowers,the health correspondent with a voice and presentation style that would bring on an illness.

Brendan Bendar

TheRiverman wrote: »

Fergal Bowers,the health correspondent with a voice and presentation style that would bring on an illness.

The very lad, have you any Anadin?

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Ok there is a place called ‘Kilbeacanty’ in south Galway.

You are a newsreader on RTE .

When I'm writing the script, I say to the reporter at the scene, or the person investigating the breaking story, "How the fcuk do you say that?"

If I didn't already know to pronounce Gorthalougha or Muckloonmodderee or Lisquillibeen, I'd ask those too. What do you do when you don't know how something is pronounced? Create your own version beyond the common usage?

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Ok there is a place called ‘Kilbeacanty’ in south Galway.

You are a newsreader on RTE .

“ A major landslide occurred in Kilbeacanty today”

How do you address the sentence above and pronounce the area name?

That’s what the boy is asking.

As an aside to the previous answer, I got curious and noticed that Kilbeacanty has an interesting toponymological history -- going back to the 1400s, no less.

Surely a place with a direct link to Gaelic Ireland, which held off the Normans and the British, shouldn't suddenly fall to some twerp in Donnybrook who decides to tear asunder centuries of the development of a placename.

Jellybaby1

Paddyed wrote: »

I love the radio. Generally switch between Newstalk, Radio One and Today FM. However the general standard of proper pronunciation and grammar can be jaw droppingly bad. I just listened to "Sahurday" Matt Cooper hatcheting his t/h words before passing over to Ian Guider who along with murdering his t/h's, also pronounces many words beginning with t/h as "v". Vis means vat ve turty tree teatres vat are located... Its astounding and shocking that a national broadcaster doesn't insist on minimum standards for its presenters.

Three posts in and look what you started! Although some posters are now discussing Gaelic place names it should be noted that the OP seems to be referring to ordinary words like 'Saturday' and 'theatre'.

Brendan Bendar

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Three posts in and look what you started! Although some posters are now discussing Gaelic place names it should be noted that the OP seems to be referring to ordinary words like 'Saturday' and 'theatre'.

Good call Jelly.

I often wonder why some folk seem to be of the opinion that standards don’t matter.
That proper grammar and speech is for the ‘toffs’ and as long as you are understood it’s fine.

They seem to imply that BBC 1950s standards are the way to go when all folk like me want is:

No ‘dones’

No ‘seens’

No ‘She should have wents ‘

No ‘Calsbergs or cavverys’

No ‘Copporations’

Simple ordinary stuff that everyone with any respect for themselves should know.

Elemonator

I understand them perfectly well. I don't see the problem.

storker

storker wrote: »

One of the things that annoys me the most about RTE presenters and reporters (and I'm looking at Ciaran Mullooly in particular), is an inability to punctuate speech correctly, resulting it unnecessary pauses that break up the flow of speech e.g. "The car turned....into the side road and two people...got out." It's as if he's trying to insert pauses for effect but in all the wrong places.

He’s just short of breath, I reckon.

Tell me how

It's not diction as such but I laughed when I heard a news bulletin recently on NT which said 'Conor McGregor has apologised for allegedly punching a man in a Dublin pub recently. The alleged event took place........'. Given that he has apologised for the event, I think you can drop the 'alleged' from your piece without fear of legal recriminations. That and the video of him doing it should be sufficient.

On the diction front, not presenter but there is a voice over artist who voices advertisements for the Independent and she has a very SCD accent. Sometimes, the brief will include reference to agricultural pieces and to hear her reading that sounds completely out place.

I also dislike the pronunciation of 'Cork' which sounds like 'Coork' from some news or traffic readers.

twinklerunner

Almost every GAA reporter/commentator refers to ‘pints’ instead of ‘points’.

Tell me how

twinklerunner wrote: »

Almost every GAA reporter/commentator refers to ‘pints’ instead of ‘points’.

Apart from Ger Canning. He might have the kicker's name wrong, but he'll have the diction correct.

ford fiesta

what's the story with that Darren Frehill lad on RTE Radio sport and him feeling the need to extend his delivery of words?

"m-e-a-n-w-h-i-l-e Dublin have made h-i-s-t-o-r-y to w-i-n f-i-v-e s-t-r-a-i-g-h-t All-Ire-lands after a O-n-e G-o-a-l E-i-g-t-t-e-en to F-i-f-t-e-e-n p-o-i-n-t-s win over o-l-d r-i-v-a-l-s Ke-rry"

Brendan Bendar

Elemonator wrote: »

I understand them perfectly well. I don't see the problem.

Cool!

Tell me how

On the other end of the scale, Aideen Gormley on Lyric is an example of someone with excellent diction.
A pleasure to listen to her.

chicorytip

RTE did, in the far distant past, have some outstanding newscasters. I am thinking of the likes of Don Cockburn, Emer O'Kelly, Charles Mitchel and Maurice O' Doherty. They were all trained journalists - as distinct from just newsreaders - who clearly had been properly schooled in the technique of broadcasting of which proper diction was a far more important element than seems to be the case today. It's unfair to plonk somebody in front of a camera and just perform like a natural. Vincent Browne is a good recent example of this, coming from the print media with no prior broadcasting experience and who, quite clearly, received no formal training whatsoever neither from RTE nor TV3. His journalistic ability and intellect tended not to be demonstrated to it's maximum effect because of his often hesitant, confused and, occasionally, shambolic on air persona.

Brendan Bendar

chicorytip wrote: »

RTE did, in the far distant past, have some outstanding newscasters. I am thinking of the likes of Don Cockburn, Emer O'Kelly, Charles Mitchel and Maurice O' Doherty. They were all trained journalists - as distinct from just newsreaders - who clearly had been properly schooled in the technique of broadcasting of which proper diction was a far more important element than seems to be the case today. It's unfair to plonk somebody in front of a camera and just perform like a natural. Vincent Browne is a good recent example of this, coming from the print media with no prior broadcasting experience and who, quite clearly, received no formal training whatsoever neither from RTE nor TV3. His journalistic ability and intellect tended not to be demonstrated to it's maximum effect because of his often hesitant, confused and, occasionally, shambolic on air persona.

You takin the piss?

Peig Sayers

Tell me how wrote: »

On the other end of the scale, Aideen Gormley on Lyric is an example of someone with excellent diction.
A pleasure to listen to her.

Lyric has some excellent presenters who are a pleasure to listen to!

chicorytip

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

chicorytip wrote: »

RTE did, in the far distant past, have some outstanding newscasters. I am thinking of the likes of Don Cockburn, Emer O'Kelly, Charles Mitchel and Maurice O' Doherty. They were all trained journalists - as distinct from just newsreaders - who clearly had been properly schooled in the technique of broadcasting of which proper diction was a far more important element than seems to be the case today. It's unfair to plonk somebody in front of a camera and just perform like a natural. Vincent Browne is a good recent example of this, coming from the print media with no prior broadcasting experience and who, quite clearly, received no formal training whatsoever neither from RTE nor TV3. His journalistic ability and intellect tended not to be demonstrated to it's maximum effect because of his often hesitant, confused and, occasionally, shambolic on air persona.

You takin the piss?

No. Are you?

Brendan Bendar

chicorytip wrote: »

No. Are you?

Charles Mitchel didn’t join as a “trained journalist”.

All they did was read the news off an autocue.

Nothing else.

dxhound2005

chicorytip wrote: »

RTE did, in the far distant past, have some outstanding newscasters. I am thinking of the likes of Don Cockburn, Emer O'Kelly, Charles Mitchel and Maurice O' Doherty. They were all trained journalists - as distinct from just newsreaders - who clearly had been properly schooled in the technique of broadcasting of which proper diction was a far more important element than seems to be the case today. It's unfair to plonk somebody in front of a camera and just perform like a natural. Vincent Browne is a good recent example of this, coming from the print media with no prior broadcasting experience and who, quite clearly, received no formal training whatsoever neither from RTE nor TV3. His journalistic ability and intellect tended not to be demonstrated to it's maximum effect because of his often hesitant, confused and, occasionally, shambolic on air persona.

Is your memory clear enough to recall exactly what you heard in the far distant past. What is being complained about now is down to the level of a T being turned into a D, or a slightly elongated pronunciation of a word. There is good science behind the way we speak, but the nitpickers want to ignore that.
All that matters is that we can understand what is being said, and that is not a problem with our current newsreaders.

I'd wager good money that Don and company, presented with a sentence containing 27 and .ie, would say Twennyseven and Dod i e, the same as most other people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flapping