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UK imports POST Brexit

  • 31-08-2019 9:30am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 673 ✭✭✭


    Seems to me it's gonna be the same as a US import,
    Vat @21% on the whole cost car transport shipping ie everything spent outside the country,and then Customs duty @10% on top of that.
    At least those were the figures last time I looked


«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    Ouch. 31% is a lot to add on.

    AFAIK, approximately 70,000 imports come into Ireland every year so its going to have an impact in both the UK and here. Will UK car sales stall? Drop even more?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,478 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    No-one knows


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,901 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    charlieIRL wrote: »
    Ouch. 31% is a lot to add on.

    AFAIK, approximately 70,000 imports come into Ireland every year so its going to have an impact in both the UK and here. Will UK car sales stall? Drop even more?

    It’s duty on VAT so 33%.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not only that but revenue will base it on the cost to buy in Ireland then add their taxes !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    Customs duty is being paid on all cars imported into the E.U, who gets this money? The E.U. ? Or the Country that collects it ?

    If its the E.U. would that not be a double tax on a car that registered before Brexit?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭BigAl81


    I believe half of all cars last year were imported, something like 100,000 cars!!

    That's a lot of lost VRT and a lot of sales that would presumably now have to happen within Ireland?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,220 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Expensive cars is going to be the least of our problems.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,544 ✭✭✭sk8board


    You might make back a little of the gap from those fixed tax & tariff costs, with sterling depreciation against the euro, and a general recession in the UK dropping car values on the forecourts - both very speculative though


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 310 ✭✭drumm23


    BigAl81 wrote: »
    I believe half of all cars last year were imported, something like 100,000 cars!!

    That's a lot of lost VRT and a lot of sales that would presumably now have to happen within Ireland?

    they don't lose the VRT because people will buy them here (incl VRT)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭BigAl81


    drumm23 wrote:
    they don't lose the VRT because people will buy them here (incl VRT)

    Well second hand UK imports get hit with VRT that second hand domestic sales wouldn't.

    Would we even have enough to sell here?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 310 ✭✭drumm23


    BigAl81 wrote: »
    Well second hand UK imports get hit with VRT that second hand domestic sales wouldn't.

    Would we even have enough to sell here?

    well, sort of, it's a bit zero sum
    might drop off somewhat though because I'm sure the dealers here will lift prices and maybe reduce demand


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,616 ✭✭✭grogi


    BigAl81 wrote: »
    Well second hand UK imports get hit with VRT that second hand domestic sales wouldn't.

    Would we even have enough to sell here?

    We simply will buy more paddy spec new cars.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭Technique


    So is the 33% VAT on the VRT or on the value of the car? I'm guessing the latter?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,014 ✭✭✭Soarer


    Technique wrote: »
    So is the 33% VAT on the VRT or on the value of the car? I'm guessing the latter?

    You pay 21% VAT on the cost of the car to get it to Ireland, ie. Purchase price + shipping.
    You then add the VAT to the total, then pay 10% Import Duty on that.
    Then you go pay your VRT.

    Great little country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭September1


    Soarer wrote: »
    You pay 21% VAT on the cost of the car to get it to Ireland, ie. Purchase price + shipping.
    You then add the VAT to the total, then pay 10% Import Duty on that.
    Then you go pay your VRT.

    Great little country.


    I'm pretty sure customs and VAT rules are stipulated by EU, so I would not blame Ireland for anything but VRT - which is only part not changing. :-)


    However if UK would be doing hard Brexit then there would be one more significant issue with bringing cars, this 23% VAT + 10% customs duty will be paid on value of import, which might be different than purchase price + shipping. I'm pretty sure that after short wave of lower invoices from UK dealers who accept cash payments under table, Revenue would start contesting those and instead of using invoice value use their own valuations. This could impact even honest importers who simply scored a bargain.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 837 ✭✭✭BarryM


    Soarer wrote: »
    You pay 21% VAT on the cost of the car to get it to Ireland, ie. Purchase price + shipping.
    You then add the VAT to the total, then pay 10% Import Duty on that.
    Then you go pay your VRT.

    Great little country.

    What would you suggest as an alternative?

    Imports are only interesting, really, because the £/€ rate is favourable. Post a crash-out brexit that will probably get 'better' for us.

    Spec difference buying is a personal decision.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,220 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    BarryM wrote: »
    Spec difference buying is a personal decision.
    But there a fair few ICE cars that just aren't sold in Ireland in any spec.

    Now in fairness this is mostly due to their undesirable motor tax rates (the Suzuki Jimny being the most recent example I was looking at), which won't apply to EVs, but I'm not sure it's as simple as satnav and upholstery options.

    I just can't see any upside of losing such a major RHD market in Europe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,528 ✭✭✭copeyhagen


    picking her 2017 civic up in wales tomorrow, then heading back hopefully the week after to pick up my tesla model s.

    nows the time to buy if you have the dollar...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭alanowx


    Not only that but revenue will base it on the cost to buy in Ireland then add their taxes !

    No - they cant do that without just cause as to why the Transaction Value method (invoice) or other means was not used to calculate the Customs and VAT elements, see below.
    September1 wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure customs and VAT rules are stipulated by EU, so I would not blame Ireland for anything but VRT - which is only part not changing. :-)


    However if UK would be doing hard Brexit then there would be one more significant issue with bringing cars, this 23% VAT + 10% customs duty will be paid on value of import, which might be different than purchase price + shipping. I'm pretty sure that after short wave of lower invoices from UK dealers who accept cash payments under table, Revenue would start contesting those and instead of using invoice value use their own valuations. This could impact even honest importers who simply scored a bargain.

    Yes Customs Valuation procedures and VAT rules are laid down in EU law and apply across all EU States

    See attached pdf link for how Customs value goods for import into EU. Heavy reading but here you are.
    https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/customs/valuation/valuation.pdf

    In summary there are six methods of valuation which are generally applied in sequence from 1 to 6 namely

    1. The transaction value method;
    2. The transaction value of identical goods;
    3. The transaction value of similar goods;
    4. The deductive method;
    5. The computed method; and
    6. The residual valuation provision.

    You only proceed to method 2 where method 1 is not a runner and so on. So usually the transaction value method is used (the invoice price) when available. It generally will only be overlooked by Customs when they have a reasonable doubt as to the bona fides of that invoice for whatever reason.

    However even if Customs query that invoice price they have to notify the importer of such and explain the basis for that doubt and give the importer the opportunity to respond to the query with a "Right to be Heard". Even after that the importer has the right to appeal the decision if still not satisfied.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭alanowx


    kanuseeme wrote: »
    Customs duty is being paid on all cars imported into the E.U, who gets this money? The E.U. ? Or the Country that collects it ?

    If its the E.U. would that not be a double tax on a car that registered before Brexit?

    AFAIK Most of the Customs duty collected is returned to a central fund in Europe and a small element is retained by the Country that collects it. I believe all the VAT stays with the collection country.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,638 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    BigAl81 wrote: »
    Would we even have enough to sell here?

    There's always Japan - we have been importing used cars from there for at least 35 years, if not more. And we already pay all the tax on cars from there, but depreciation and exchange rates still make it viable. The 10% tariff on cars from Japan is being phased out too.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    I reckon UK garages are panicking a small bit. I enquired about a few cars in UK Garages over the last few weeks and every one of them contacted me again in the last few days to see have I got my car yet.

    I got offered a 3 month old e-golf which has less than 1k miles for £25k sterling today. Damm VAT


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 673 ✭✭✭adunis


    People seem to be missing the point here
    Unless stg absolutely tanks,the UK imports are history when the UK is no longer in the EU
    Remember 33% on top of the current cost.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,122 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    charlieIRL wrote: »
    I got offered a 3 month old e-golf which has less than 1k miles for £25k sterling today. Damm VAT

    Try get a March one. As long as it has 6k km on it then by the time you present for VRT, it will not attract any VAT or VRT.

    Bargains out there. Mike posted up a sub £23k 2019 eGolf this week. You'd land that for €25.5-€26k


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    unkel wrote: »
    Try get a March one. As long as it has 6k km on it then by the time you present for VRT, it will not attract any VAT or VRT.

    Bargains out there. Mike posted up a sub £23k 2019 eGolf this week. You'd land that for €25.5-€26k

    Am staying local for my one!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,122 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Bring a 191 in for €25.5k. Buy the same car here for €35.5k

    Your choice ;)


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    unkel wrote: »
    Bring a 191 in for €25.5k. Buy the same car here for €35.5k

    Your choice ;)

    I didn’t say I was paying 35.5k!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,122 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Now you have me interested. You can get a 191 eGolf (presumably from a main VW dealer like the car in my example) for a lot less than that?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    adunis wrote: »
    People seem to be missing the point here
    Unless stg absolutely tanks,the UK imports are history when the UK is no longer in the EU
    Remember 33% on top of the current cost.

    Where are you getting the 33% from ??

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭September1


    I'm not tax expert, but considering that some cars are manufactured in EU, would duty not apply based on country of origin? Hence some UK imports attracting only VAT and VRT.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 673 ✭✭✭adunis


    UK not in EU anymore
    Just like a for instance US Import
    21%vat on ALL money spent
    10% cousins duty
    And then the VRT


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,638 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    The higher rate of VAT is 23%, it's not 2011 any more :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,014 ✭✭✭Soarer


    Morning lads.

    Let's cut to the chase....

    WTF is gonna happen now??

    Every chance Brexit will be implemented (if that's the correct word) before the end of the year.
    Will there be 1/2/3 years of a window re. taxation before it fully hits car imports?

    Or will some clever people set up a huge car showroom up the North, bring cars over there, and then sell to us (think that's how the no-backstop works!)?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 706 ✭✭✭kaahooters


    Soarer wrote: »
    Morning lads.

    Let's cut to the chase....

    WTF is gonna happen now??

    Every chance Brexit will be implemented (if that's the correct word) before the end of the year.
    Will there be 1/2/3 years of a window re. taxation before it fully hits car imports?

    Or will some clever people set up a huge car showroom up the North, bring cars over there, and then sell to us (think that's how the no-backstop works!)?

    no deal brexit means 100% wto rules route, which is the full whck of vrt vat ect.
    there wont be any windows, itll just be , boom, full rate of wto rules.

    as far as the no backstop, i dont think anyone really knows,and i hanve looks into it enough.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,220 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Soarer wrote: »
    Every chance Brexit will be implemented (if that's the correct word) before the end of the year.
    Will there be 1/2/3 years of a window re. taxation before it fully hits car imports?

    No chance Brexit will be "done" by the end of the year, they'll need all the sitting days (and maybe more) until the end of Jan when the extension runs out.

    Then there's a transition period of at least 21 months, which may be extended for one or two years, or presumably however long it takes to agree a deal.

    There's no chance of a no-deal Brexit at this stage.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 837 ✭✭✭BarryM


    The general comment is that 31.12.2020 is unreaistic. BUT, if Boris gets bolshie he may cut loose and then we are in to WTO.

    His 'suggestion' of a [complete] tax free liaison with the EU is also unlikely, the EU policy is that any deal has to fit in with the customs free zone and all other arrangements already in place. Outsiders are not allowed to upset the existing arrangements.


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,530 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    I thought no deal was off the table regardless of the election. Sure didn't they already vote on a deal?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 837 ✭✭✭BarryM


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    I thought no deal was off the table regardless of the election. Sure didn't they already vote on a deal?

    To be precise - Boris will get the deal already on the table through before the holliers in the commons. Then they will sign off on Article 50 before 31.1.2020 (with a great fanfare....) - all over bar the shouting..... on 1.2.2020 that will commence, with the idea of finishing on 31.12.2020.

    At any time during the period of the discussion Boris may get pissed off.....:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,749 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Whole thing is hard to understand, the week before 31st October the Irish government were running ads on the radio telling UK driving licence holders their licence would be no longer valid from the 31st October, other opinions suggest it will run on for years before any impact on trade occurs. Our government will be bound by whatever deal the EU do, they won't be able to just decide to change import tariffs from the UK when they feel like it.

    In the event of no deal anything can happen I suppose but they do have a deal from EU which they signed up to and now have the mandate to implement.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,186 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Irish main dealers must be delighted. Overnight, on 1 Feb 2020, it won’t be worth going to the UK anymore as the extra Vat and duty will make it uneconomic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,826 ✭✭✭phill106


    So if i had planned on buying a car from the uk in the new year, do it asap?doh!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭BigAl81


    Weren't half of all car sales imported from the UK last year?

    Where will all the cars come from now!?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,053 ✭✭✭Casati


    BigAl81 wrote: »
    Weren't half of all car sales imported from the UK last year?

    Where will all the cars come from now!?

    Japan


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,634 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    BigAl81 wrote: »
    Weren't half of all car sales imported from the UK last year?

    Where will all the cars come from now!?

    Still will be the UK, as the car is being exported, you should be able to claim the UK vat back (like you can if your taking stuff back to the US) but you'll have to pay the Irish VAT instead.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,186 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    graememk wrote: »
    Still will be the UK, as the car is being exported, you should be able to claim the UK vat back (like you can if your taking stuff back to the US) but you'll have to pay the Irish VAT instead.

    That would be limited to VAT qualifying cars though, which is a much much smaller pool of cars to choose from.

    And the extra hassle, paperwork and the reality that you will have to have the inc vat amount in cash (both UK and Irish VAT) and then claim the UK VAT back means alot of people would have cashflow issues and would just decide it's not worth it.

    Im sure plenty will do it, but the numbers are going to tumble I'd say.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,634 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    KCross wrote: »
    That would be limited to VAT qualifying cars though, which is a much much smaller pool of cars to choose from.

    Oh yeah, can only be bought from VAT registered customers the whole way though from new. We got caught with that buying something and we had to walk away because we couldn't claim the VAT back.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Stealthirl


    charlieIRL wrote: »
    AFAIK, approximately 70,000 imports come into Ireland every year
    But every car sold here is an import as non are manufactured here :D
    BigAl81 wrote: »
    Well second hand UK imports get hit with VRT that second hand domestic sales wouldn't.
    They are it's just that used Irish cars already payed it when new so it's included in the used price.

    Another thought also would the price of new cars in the UK go up via export/import rates if the car is manufactured outside the UK ?
    Will new leaf price go up here as it will be imported from Sunderland where it's manufactured


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Casati wrote: »
    Japan

    Insurance broker: "and is the vehicle a Japanese import"

    Joe Soap: ":D It is, just off the boat this mornin"

    Insurance Broker: "ok, just adding two more zeros to the quote sir"

    Joe Soap: ":confused:Whah?

    Insurance broker "oh, and we don't include vaseline for our Jap imports quotes"

    Joe Soap: ":eek:"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    Insurance broker: "and is the vehicle a Japanese import"

    Joe Soap: ":D It is, just off the boat this mornin"

    Insurance Broker: "ok, just adding two more zeros to the quote sir"

    Joe Soap: ":confused:Whah?

    Insurance broker "oh, and we don't include vaseline for our Jap imports quotes"

    Joe Soap: ":eek:"

    Cars for cheese deal between the EU and japan might see an increase in vaseline imports also, which begs the question where does our vaseline come from? and if it comes from the UK whats the duty on it? and whats it like without any lubricant?


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