rsa supporting e-scooters

tomasrojo

I recall a few legal cases that had to be retried because they got an MD as expert witness to explain the likelihood of some occurrence or attribute, and got it substantially wrong. And they seem overall to have trouble understanding test results.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28166019

Mind you, those calculations of probability based on background prevalence are quite confusing.

As someone said already they didn't here, and usually don't, compare cyclists with pedestrians; people don't think walking is all that dangerous, and cycling doesn't compare all that badly to walking. In fact, if you calculate KSIs on a per-km basis, cycling looks safer (mind you, so might the Soviet space programme).

tomasrojo

It often gets forgotten, but habitual cyclists live on average longer, and show lower occurrences of and better recoveries from a lot of ailments. And that's without removing cycling-related collisions from the dataset.

magicbastarder

yeah - and that discussion is relevant to this article (also posted on the journalism thread);

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2024/12/12/cyclists-e-scooter-users-11-times-more-likely-to-be-seriously-injured-on-roads-than-motorists/

the first correction (and there are more) should be that (say) cyclists who are injured are 11 times more likely to be seriously injured than motorists who are injured.

the figures available from the IRC say nothing about actual chance of injury in the first place.

funny enough, leo varadkar was opining the other day that many politicians don't understand percentages.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122948418#Comment_122948418

Which they can't because we can all assume a number of them, potentially a vast majority, do not result in hospitalisation and or reporting, and even then, it may not always be recorded what caused the accident so it is not clear.

magicbastarder

another thing to bear in mind is that if a motorist is involved in a collision with another motorist which results in any sort of injury, it's almost certain to involve insurance claims. a collision significant enough to result in injury is not one which is usually handled privately.

whereas if a cyclist or scooter user is 'slightly' injured in a collision with a car - maybe it's more likely the motorist will not want to involve insurance companies, so it's handled privately; or else the cyclist does not have a chance to pursue the motorist for insurance. which would skew the data for cyclists/scooter users towards the significant injury side.

MojoMaker

Never misses an opportunity…

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122948398#Comment_122948398

You get none of the benefits of cycling from an escooter and even assisted cycling is just getting the person moving, they are all fecked if the battery dies

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122950444#Comment_122950444

I would disagree with you on the ebike side of things, I would estimate that in a case where a person was unlikely to use a bike at all if not an e bike, then it should still decrease your all cause mortality, albeit, not by as much.

I agree on escooters, long distance escooters are just a recipe for long term ergonomic issues.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122948418#Comment_122948418

Not surprised about the report, I'd say eScooter drivers are more likely to get into incidents while out on the roads…

eScooters are the "Wild-West" of commuters, no lights, dark clothes/no helmet, don't stop at traffic lights, travel well above 25kph..

Henry Ford III

I really don't like the legislation or even the enforcement of it.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122950516#Comment_122950516

Coincidentally, coming home this evening, I was cycling in the bus lane along Grange Castle road doing 40-45km/h when I was overtaken by a lad on an escooter and we swapped the lead for a few hundred metres. Leaving aside his poor skills at interacting with traffic at the two roundabouts we passed, the bus lane surface is littered with gravel and stones. You'd really want to be mad to travel at that speed on that surface on small wheels with nothing worthwhile to light the road ahead.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122950599#Comment_122950599

That's almost the rule rather than the exception, probably smoking a joint whilst doing 50…

I don't usually mind seeing one of them on a high-speed scooter, but if there's two it can mean that one of them can hop off and try rob another eScooter or bike…

I see over in Southern Spain there's a list of fines for eScooter drivers, not sure what enforcement is like but can't be any worse than here:

– Driving under 16 years of age: 60€.
– Driving two or more people on the same scooter: 90€.
– Driving without lights: 90€.
– Driving on the pavement, promenades and pedestrian areas: 200€.
– Parking outside permitted areas: 200€.
– Exceeding the maximum speed limit of 25km/h: 200€.
– Driving under the influence of alcohol, drugs or in a reckless manner: 500€.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122948418#Comment_122948418

You know there's an agenda when they combine stats. Flower pressing with chainsaw juggling. Stamp collecting with free climbing.

tomasrojo

I think there was a study from Norway that showed people using e-bikes made more trips and longer trips by bike than average bike owners, and this compensated for the lower levels of exertion per trip. I vaguely remember some other source of evidence did not show this effect though.

I suspect a pedelec with a dead battery is probably not that much harder to cycle than our bakfiets (non-electric). And I cycle that a lot.

Can't imagine too many health benefits from e-scooters alright.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122950516#Comment_122950516

Totally, The percentage of escooter operators who I see who are operating their escooter in dark clothing and absolutely zero lights, or even anything reflective, well it’s several most days, late afternoon / evening.

My neighbour is a speeding on the path merchant , coming around the corner and down the path which is a downward incline, and as stated in another thread I think the TA one , I witnessed a person having to take evasive action…this piss artist on the escooter doesn’t even slow, or doesn’t noticeably slow approaching the corners… must be doing 10-15 kmph…on a path. Flying. Load of OAPs and you have this clown seconds from home… so just slowing and remaining where he is supposed to be, ‘on’ the road can’t be even the slightest inconvenience…authorities need to get a hold of this sort of gimp. Genuinely don’t care what harm comes or doesn’t come to him seeing as he doesn’t care about anyone else but it will be tough for any innocent individual he clatters with his idiocy, selfishness and carelessness.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951365#Comment_122951365

I wouldn't mind but the eScooter drivers are using their own vehicles so can't even blame the behaviour on a few silly tourists! Self-entitled and ignorant is how i'd describe a lot of them, a hazard to cyclists, pedestrians and motorists..

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-9-year-old-grandchild-uses-her-e-scooter-with-no/id962141893?i=1000680149834

zell12

They took the childers santa present!

Kerry RPU seized this e-scooter after witnessing the child almost collide at speed with a pedestrian on a footpath.

https://www.radiokerry.ie/news/tralee-gardai-seize-e-scooter-from-12-year-old-who-almost-collided-with-pedestrian-415073

Flinty997

About time they enforced the rules.

MojoMaker

"Blame the parents" is something we often trot out, in many cases in misguided fashion, but it would seem to fit well here.

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122994117#Comment_122994117

I'd blame Santa

Patches oHoulihan

Tax , insurance and a licence on the motor vehicles like Ebikes and Escooters.

A **** scourge

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122995237#Comment_122995237

wait til you hear what cars have been up to…

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122995237#Comment_122995237

Not really though, I see loads every day in a rural area, most are just people going in and out to work. When I lived in a town, there were a few kids who irked me but the vast majority were harming no one but themselves. When I thought about it, it was just me getting older and developing an irrational dislike. Once I got over this, with rare exception, they were effectively harmless.

E scooters actual biggest issues are a) wheels too small and pose a risk to user and b) cheap batteries with non OEM chargers being left in overnight by a generation who don't turn stuff off at night, the latter being the only genuine issue.

E bikes are just bikes with a pro athlete rather than a lard ass like me on them.

GooseB

" E bikes are just bikes with a pro athlete rather than a lard ass like me on them. "

The trouble is, they give the performance of a pro athlete to those with the bike handling skills of Mr. Bean. Was cycling to work during the summer and got taken out by an idiot not looking where he was going. One of those ones with a single heavy steel main "tube" and the small, fat-bike style tyres. It must have weighed as much as a tank and it certainly won the battle with me on my bike.

I was cycling home the Thursday of last week when an e-biker caught up with me in traffic. When the cars pulled away, I let them gain some distance on me for safety, knowing I'd only be slowing again for them at the next pedestrian lights or mini roundabout. The guy on the e-bike was right up the car's squeaker - if the car braked any way hard your man would have been into the back bumper. When the traffic sped up and we had room on a cycle lane, the guy on the e-bike started moving at a decent pace but nothing ridiculous. He was actually pedalling at a good cadence which is rare as usually they're more twisting and going. I stuck with him, just far enough behind to be safe but still catch some slipstream. Between that and the tailwind we were cruising at 38 to 39 km/h. Then a second e-biker passed the both of us - I reckon he was going 5 to 7 km/h faster than us. We were on the cycle lane but he was on the footpath. What a tool. Luckily the path was wide enough that he could get by the teenage girl walking towards him. Another e-bike with the small fat-bike style tyres. If he hit that girl with that heavy bike at that speed he would have caused some serious injuries to her.

magicbastarder

It might sound like a cop out answer, but that bike you are talking about is legally a moped. So there's no disagreement there that legally that rider needs tax, licence and insurance.

cletus

Alao, while what @GooseB is saying might be anecdotally true (I've no reason not to believe them), the assertion by @Patches oHoulihan is not statistically not bourne out

According to the Road Safety Authority, between January 1, 2022, and September 24, 2023, the total number of e-scooter users injured was 51, three of which were fatal.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/number-of-patients-with-e-scooter-injuries-increasing-year-on-year-at-dublin-hospital/a1905096477.html

In 2022 alone there were 7,302 injuries sustained from cars, 1,424 of which were categorised as serious

https://www.rsa.ie/news-events/news/details/2023/01/01/13-rise-in-road-deaths-recorded-in-2022

That's obviously just a very simple comparison, but I've neither the time nor the inclination to do a deep dive

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122996282#Comment_122996282

Consider there are 200k driver speeding offences each year and around 2000+ car fires.

While absolutely there are issues with eScooters but as you say let's look at the wider context.

zell12

collision between an electric scooter and a pedestrian.. incident happened November 18, on the N4 Ballinalee Road, Longford. https://www.independent.ie/regionals/longford/news/gardai-issue-public-appeal-as-pedestrian-seriously-injured-by-e-scooter-incident-in-longford-town/a129577599.html

Six weeks later, does that indicate a really bad injury?

zell12

He made a great show of taking out his smartphone, pressing stop, and then pushing up the hat to remove the earbuds from his ears, in order - sigh - to listen to what my husband had to say.

“You’re not allowed to drive that scooter on the footpath,” my husband observed.

“It’s a cycle-way,” the man argued.

We all looked at the broad pavement traversing the Opera House Bridge. No cycle-way markings.

“No, it’s not,” I said. “You’re supposed to travel on the road.”

“I don’t give a sh***e” what you say,” he said coldly.

The lights changed. He scooted off across the road, and, yes, without any hesitation, mounted the opposite pavement on his e-scooter, and disappeared around the corner in the direction of Academy Street.

The old lady sighed.  “They’re all doing it,” she said. “There’s nobody around to be stopping them. They do what they want. You have your heart in your mouth doing your bit of shopping around town these days.”

https://www.echolive.ie/corkviews/arid-41549197.html

Seth Brundle

We all looked at the broad pavement traversing the Opera House Bridge. No cycle-way markings.

Is this the broad pavement (note the sign on the left of the image!)?