Young wans nowadays

Sunny Disposition

Firstly I’m auld enough.
Fifteen years or so ago I thought young people coming up were very impressive, very hard working, quite clever, generous to others.
Now it seems to have turned, they want things handy, have a real sense of entitlement, very easily upset and crucially not a bit resilient.

Now don’t get me wrong, of course there were young people with these traits and ones without them now, but generally the point is true.

Would people agree? And what advice would you give to someone looking to make an adult out of someone in their late teens or early 20s now?

Feisar

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Firstly I’m auld enough.
Fifteen years or so ago I thought young people coming up were very impressive, very hard working, quite clever, generous to others.
Now it seems to have turned, they want things handy, have a real sense of entitlement, very easily upset and crucially not a bit resilient.

Now don’t get me wrong, of course there were young people with these traits and ones without them now, but generally the point is true.

Would people agree? And what advice would you give to someone looking to make an adult out of someone in their late teens or early 20s now?

You're going to get a lot of posts saying it has always been the same. The older generation always admonish the next saying they are lazy etc.

For every lazy article I see there's another grafting to get ahead.

edit - 15 years ago I was that young person coming up.

BDI

They all have anxiety.

tastyt

Lovely arses though....

Augme

Brilliant, another "back from n my day things were amazing" post. I really do love these.

Sunny Disposition

Feisar wrote: »

You're going to get a lot of posts saying it has always been the same. The older generation always admonish the next saying they are lazy etc.

For every lazy article I see there's another grafting to get ahead.

edit - 15 years ago I was that young person coming up.

I don’t think it was always the same though, like I say 15 years ago I had a totally different view and I was long gone bast my 20s.

Feisar

BDI wrote: »

They all have anxiety.

Do they feck!

I see a "young wan" down the road from me changing the script, working away and putting herself through college.

kieran.

tastyt wrote: »

Lovely arses though....

There must be something in the water.

dhaughton99

They don’t seem to do responsibility.

The world has changed and the people in it change too. Becoming an adult today is different from every other decade, the same metrics don't apply.

SEPT 23 1989

I blame the drugs

Not good enough anymore

ILoveYourVibes

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Now it seems to have turned, they want things handy, have a real sense of entitlement, very easily upset and crucially not a bit resilient.

in their late teens or early 20s now?

I am just a bit above that.

You have certainly hit upon my insecurities.

Panthro

Aw stop. We've auld wans telling us we'd it soft and didn't do near enough compared to them.

We've young wans telling us we wrect the joint and its all our fault the planets gone balubahs.

It's like a house party that was both Shyte and epic at the same time.

Sunny Disposition

Candie wrote: »

The world has changed and the people in it change too. Becoming an adult today is different from every other decade, the same metrics don't apply.

People have changed but it doesn’t seem to be in a good way. Huge amount of mental illness now, particularly anxiety, less practical skills among young men as anyone trying to hire lads will know. Youngsters don’t seem to be able to get it together, living at home firstly because they had no money in the latter years of the recession, now because rent is too dear, always think they have it very hard.
Had lads working for me around 04 to 07 and honestly there was never really a problem with them. A few could be hanging on a Monday but they’d be there for sure and get on with things.

dhaughton99

I was only thinking about this the other day. I’m in a small estate and the Vietnamese girl 3 doors down bought herself a small car over the weekend. Passed her test last week. She’s no more than 17. The Africans are all going to college and working part time and playing in bands etc. The natives are all pissing around either on the dole, dealing or living off their parents and playing video games. None of them seem to have any ‘get up and go’. Just waiting to get some yolk pregnant so they can go on a list.

El_Duderino 09

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Firstly I’m auld enough.
Fifteen years or so ago I thought young people coming up were very impressive, very hard working, quite clever, generous to others.
Now it seems to have turned, they want things handy, have a real sense of entitlement, very easily upset and crucially not a bit resilient.

Now don’t get me wrong, of course there were young people with these traits and ones without them now, but generally the point is true.

Would people agree? And what advice would you give to someone looking to make an adult out of someone in their late teens or early 20s now?

Probably look to ancient philosophy. There's a lot we can learn about today form ancient times. I hope you agree.

Here are some practical examples "I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint".
(Hesiod, 8th century BC)

And here's another one.

"The children now love luxury; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are tyrants, not servants of the households. They no longer rise when their elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize over their teachers.'
(Commonly attributed to SOCRATES by Plato)

So what can we learn from this? Old people always whinge about how the young people are gobshytes/pussies/sacks/eejits/fools but that's more a function of being old than any insiteful commentary on young people.

Best thing to do is blame young people and don't question whether maybe you made any mistakes in raising your son.

In short; the world hasn't changed, you haven't changed, all the young people have changed.

Sunny Disposition

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Probably look to ancient philosophy. There's a lot we can learn about today form ancient times. I hope you agree.

Here are some practical examples "I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint".
(Hesiod, 8th century BC)

And here's another one.

"The children now love luxury; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are tyrants, not servants of the households. They no longer rise when their elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize over their teachers.'
(Commonly attributed to SOCRATES by Plato)

So what can we learn from this? Old people always whinge about how the young people are gobshytes/pussies/sacks/eejits/fools but that's more a function of being old than any insiteful commentary on young people.

Best thing to do is blame young people and don't question whether maybe you made any mistakes in raising your son.

In short; the world hasn't changed, you haven't changed, all the young people have changed.

Sunny Disposition 1994- 2008 said young people are mighty, great workers. In 2018-19 he says the standard has dropped seriously and he is 63 now. Was praising them in his 50s.

Sunny Disposition

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

People have changed but it doesn’t seem to be in a good way. Huge amount of mental illness now, particularly anxiety, less practical skills among young men as anyone trying to hire lads will know. Youngsters don’t seem to be able to get it together, living at home firstly because they had no money in the latter years of the recession, now because rent is too dear, always think they have it very hard.
Had lads working for me around 04 to 07 and honestly there was never really a problem with them. A few could be hanging on a Monday but they’d be there for sure and get on with things.

Skills considered crucial to modern society aren't the same. Practical skills don't have the same place in the world as they used to. Tech skills are valued more than trades, and often people look to avoid the hard physical graft of building trades. Education and training has changed how people aspire to spend their working lives, people have more options and working on a building site in winter is less attractive when there's equally well-paying indoor jobs in warm offices.

I'm not sure there's more mental illness, though there's surely more openess and talk about it, more visibility. My grandmother said to me a while ago that there was lots of mental illness in her day but it was swept under the carpet or smothered under alcoholism, or just dismissed. While I think stoicism is a good trait to cultivate, I'm glad that people who are struggling can be open about it with less judgement and stigma in wider society.

El_Duderino 09

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Sunny Disposition 1994- 2008 said young people are mighty, great workers. In 2018-19 he says the standard has dropped seriously and he is 63 now. Was praising them in his 50s.

So either all young people went downhill or you got old. Which is more likely?

ArchXStanton

They lack true grit.. I look at the older men in my family, theyre hardy as be fcuked, same with the women, for all this supposed strong independent women bull****, the older crowd seemed to be much stronger mentally and dealing with things

ILoveYourVibes

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So either all young people went downhill or you got old. Which is more likely?

I don't think my generation is more problematic. They just have different problems.

Nor are they less problematic than the generation before ...just different.

El_Duderino 09

ArchXStanton wrote: »

They lack true grit.. I look at the older men in my family, theyre hardy as be fcuked, same with the women, for all this supposed strong independent women bull****, the older crowd seemed to be much stronger mentally and dealing with things

So do you think those people were always hardy and strong mentally and able to deal with things? Maybe they're skills people learn over time.

Every generation thinks The old people are hardy and young people are rubbish.

So either young people are always lesser than their parents, or young people grow into old people an then complain about how young people are rubbish.

ArchXStanton

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do young think those people were always hardy and strong mentally and able to deal with things? Maybe they're skills people learn over time.

Every generation thinks The old people are hardy and young people are rubbish.

So either young people are always lesser than their parents, or young people grow into old people an then complain about how young people are rubbish.

Yes I do, completely different upbringing with a lot less creature comforts and first world problems

Hoboo

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

People have changed but it doesn’t seem to be in a good way. Huge amount of mental illness now, particularly anxiety, less practical skills among young men as anyone trying to hire lads will know. Youngsters don’t seem to be able to get it together, living at home firstly because they had no money in the latter years of the recession, now because rent is too dear, always think they have it very hard.
Had lads working for me around 04 to 07 and honestly there was never really a problem with them. A few could be hanging on a Monday but they’d be there for sure and get on with things.

I blame the parents.

We all went through recessions, many multiple times. If I didn't have a weekend job at 16 I wasn't getting new clothes, going out, going anywhere. Spend the summer on my arse playing video games or spend 5 days working and enjoying the rest. I don't remember the last time I saw young fellas going door to door washing cars, windows, doing gardens. There's easy cash to be made as a 12 year old,.they just couldn't be arsed.

ILoveYourVibes

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So do you think those people were always hardy and strong mentally and able to deal with things? Maybe they're skills people learn over time.

That is the golden lesson i think we need to tell young people.

El_Duderino 09

The way you know this is just old people bitching about young people is because every generation of old people have the same complaints about young people, but they never conclude that they were a generation of bad parents. It's never their fault for raising an entire generation of rubbish children.

So it's clearly just a phenomenon of getting old. You start to notice faults in the young people that you didn't notice in young people when you were young.

Whinging about young people is just a function of getting old. There have to.be some perks of getting old and and weak and having to p1ss 4 times a night. At least the young people are eejits amiright?

zapper55

I'm twenty years older than the 20 year olds starting work in my office. Nothing entitled about the ones I've met, just hard working. The only difference I notice is they seek more feedback on their work and development of their skills than their older colleagues. They are definitely more emotionally intelligent than I was at that age. I didnt have a notion. I still don't

El_Duderino 09

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That is the golden lesson i think we need to tell young people.

That's what I took from it. If every generation sees old people as hardy and young people as pussies, then either;
A. People Are progressively turning into pussies and you're a pussy compared to your parent. Your parent's a pussy compared to your grandparent. Your grand parent was a pussy compared to your great grand parent and so on.

B. Young people turn into old people and develop skills over time which they forget they didn't always have.

Which one's more likely seems obvious to me.

Sam Quentin

We'll never know what's going on, because unfortunately social media is rearing our children.. hard to hear I know,but it's true.

ILoveYourVibes

zapper55 wrote: »

I'm twenty years older than the 20 year olds starting work in my office. Nothing entitled about the ones I've met, just hard working. The only difference I notice is they seek more feedback on their work and development of their skills than their older colleagues. They are definitely more emotionally intelligent than I was at that age. I didnt have a notion. I still don't

My boss says i am better with clients than anyone at the office.

Only i suspect she is just saying that only to build me up and then double the effects of dumping on me later.:pac:

El_Duderino 09

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Yes I do, completely different upbringing with a lot less creature comforts and first world problems

And do you think this problem has been going on for thousand da of years? Do you see yourself as a lesser version of your parents? Or is this just a phenomenon that applies to people that came after you?

ILoveYourVibes

Sam Quentin wrote: »

We'll never know what's going on, because unfortunately social media is rearing our children.. hard to hear I know,but it's true.

T.V raised my parents generation. They watch hrs of it.:pac:

Sofiztikated

Sam Quentin wrote: »

We'll never know what's going on, because unfortunately social media is rearing our children.. hard to hear I know,but it's true.

Town and Country Magazine, 1771 wrote:

Whither are the manly vigor and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fribbles can never have descended in a direct line from the heroes of Potiers and Agincourt...

Memoirs of the Bloomsgroove family, 1790 wrote:

The free access which many young people have to romances, novels, and plays has poisoned the mind and corrupted the morals of many a promising youth; and prevented others from improving their minds in useful knowledge. Parents take care to feed their children with wholesome diet; and yet how unconcerned about the provision for the mind, whether they are furnished with salutary food, or with trash, chaff, or poison?

The older generation never have a clue whats going on with the children.

the-island-man

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Would people agree? And what advice would you give to someone looking to make an adult out of someone in their late teens or early 20s now?

I'm in my early 30's and just became a father last year so not sure if I fit in your demographic.

I feel in terms of my working life so far I have worked very hard to get where I am. I spent four years in college doing an average of 36 hours or greater per week while living at home and working full-time during the summers. I now get a decent salary working as a Software Engineer although the tax we pay is ridiculous. I have also had the good fortune to work abroad for 3 years.

I think what made me so determined is the summer jobs I had during secondary school and college. I worked in a Supermarket, a hardware, a wholesaler and briefly on a building site. I worked days, evenings, weekends and a couple of nights. Dealing with the public, working odd hours and often doing ****ty work made me realise I didn't want to do that kind of work for the rest of my life.

In saying the above I also have no respect or loyalty for any company I work for. My belief and I realise this is nothing personal on the company's behalf - if the company needs to get rid of you in the morning to survive the decision won't be given a second thought. Likewise if I see a new opportunity that would be better for me financially or for my development I will jump ship.

Finally I think a good thing if you are trying to make an adult out of someone it's a good idea to teach them practical skills. I don't think I got thought much by my father when I was young and I'm only learning DIY skills by trial and error in the last couple of years.

Sunny Disposition

the-island-man wrote: »

I'm in my early 30's and just became a father last year so not sure if I fit in your demographic.

I feel in terms of my working life so far I have worked very hard to get where I am. I spent four years in college doing an average of 36 hours or greater per week while living at home and working full-time during the summers. I now get a decent salary working as a Software Engineer although the tax we pay is ridiculous. I have also had the good fortune to work abroad for 3 years.

I think what made me so determined is the summer jobs I had during secondary school and college. I worked in a Supermarket, a hardware, a wholesaler and briefly on a building site. I worked days, evenings, weekends and a couple of nights. Dealing with the public, working odd hours and often doing ****ty work made me realise I didn't want to do that kind of work for the rest of my life.

In saying the above I also have no respect or loyalty for any company I work for. My belief and I realise this is nothing personal on the company's behalf - if the company needs to get rid of you in the morning to survive the decision won't be given a second thought. Likewise if I see a new opportunity that would be better for me financially or for my development I will jump ship.

Finally I think a good thing if you are trying to make an adult out of someone it's a good idea to teach them practical skills. I don't think I got thought much by my father when I was young and I'm only learning DIY skills by trial and error in the last couple of years.

You’re certainly not the type I was referring to! Fair play. A lot of people think this is me being a crotchety aul fella. I don’t think it is, because when I was 50 I was old enough to think like that but it was only in the last few years I’ve seen this in young people. I meet them in different spheres, employ a few, rent houses to a number of them and am involved in a sporting organization with others. The difference in a few years is huge. Btw social media is definitely part of the reason.

Tired Gardener

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

Socrates (469–399 B.C.)

facehugger99

They're on social media 24/7, telling each other how difficult they have it.


It's a very difficult cycle to break.

elefant

Sofiztikated wrote: »

The older generation never have a clue whats going on with the children.

'Emaciated fribble' is a tremendous turn of phrase.

Sugarlumps

Only have contact with the younger generation through work, mostly dumb broads. Phone permanently glued on. Unable to make simple decisions.

Edgware

dhaughton99 wrote: »

I was only thinking about this the other day. I’m in a small estate and the Vietnamese girl 3 doors down bought herself a small car over the weekend. Passed her test last week. She’s no more than 17. The Africans are all going to college and working part time and playing in bands etc. The natives are all pissing around either on the dole, dealing or living off their parents and playing video games. None of them seem to have any ‘get up and go’. Just waiting to get some yolk pregnant so they can go on a list.

That may be the case in some localties as regards natives. But there are thousands of young Irish getting highly educated and developing great careers. There are thousands not necessarily ging the third level route but working hard developing themselves and advancing their careers also. I agree wth the commens as regards the childre of immigrants. Their parents are working in "ordinary" jobs but they are making sure that their kids are taking the
educational oportunities. If anyone doubts this just check out the local newspapers that report Student of the year, Science stdent of the year, Young Scientist exhibition etc.
Invariably you will find the East Euroean or African names mentioned

Most of the young people i encounter are find and far more confident that I was at that age, a young person I know graduated and while being a very hard worker has a slight attitude of unless the job suits me I am not doing it, or I would like that job but i am not doing shift.


Being that confident is good, but expecting the world to change to suit them instead of realising that may have to make compromises is not a good thing.


The reason that is important is that its often at the root of anxiety and mental health issues.

How can 40% of young people have severe anxiety?

El_Duderino 09

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

A lot of people think this is me being a crotchety aul fella. I don’t think it is, because when I was 50 I was old enough to think like that but it was only in the last few years I’ve seen this in young people. I meet them in different spheres, employ a few, rent houses to a number of them and am involved in a sporting organization with others. The difference in a few years is huge. Btw social media is definitely part of the reason.

Do you said you think young people changedm, en mass, in about 2009. What else changed in 2009?

I wonder if it's even occurred to you that people who were young in 2009 have a completely different set of prospects from old people. Owning a house, having wage growth over a career, career progression, paying more in rent to old people than any geberation has ever paid before. The first 3 are less likely than ever before, the 4th is a certainly.

Young people haven't had fewer prospects than their parents for a few generations, but here we are. Young people are paying unreasonable rent to pay for old people's properties. They're literally buying old people's investments for them, while getting lower pay and almost no wage growth relative to previous generations.

Young people have never had less to gain by bursting their balls paying for other people's investment property, being paid less and getting buckets of abuse from old people.

The social contract has been broken

ToxicPaddy

Get a lot of interns and grads in the office and its a mixed bunch tbh.

Most in fairness are intelligent, mannerly and focussed on work. They want to learn and are not afraid of hard work which is definitely nice to see.

A few are complete write offs, sick days like nobodies business, no clue about hard work and a serious sense of entitlement. But in saying that when I was their age I wasnt exactly the most focussed person and many did write me off, but I learned over time and managed to carve a career out.

Many parents seem to shelter their kids from the big bad world a little too much and when they go out into it as adults, they are pretty much clueless how it works. They see social media influencers and think that's how it really is, so you kinda have to open their eyes a little and then judge the results.

FAILSAFE 00

They feel and are told by peers that the world must change to suit them. Not that the world is the way it is and they must be resilient and push on/through to achieve their goals.

KungPao

A mixture of mollycoddling (for the luckier ones) and layabouts welfare parents who couldn’t be arsed raising their kids has ****ed with their development.
Can’t say boo to a kid now without it being branded abuse. Internet access for all ages hasn’t helped.

super_furry

This take on young people being entitled, lazy and too soft is brand new and has never happened before.

It certainly isn't repeated every by single generation of old people throughout history who have always bemoaned the young.

This is a fun read - 15 Historical Complaints About Young People Ruining Everything
https://mentalfloss.com/article/52209/15-historical-complaints-about-young-people-ruining-everything

It includes some pissy oul lad from 20BC whinging; "Our sires' age was worse than our grandsires'. We, their sons, are more worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt."

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do you said you think young people changedm, en mass, in about 2009. What else changed in 2009?

I wonder if it's even occurred to you that people who were young in 2009 have a completely different set of prospects from old people. Owning a house, having wage growth over a career, career progression, paying more in rent to old people than any geberation has ever paid before. The first 3 are less likely than ever before, the 4th is a certainly.

Young people haven't had fewer prospects than their parents for a few generations, but here we are. Young people are paying unreasonable rent to pay for old people's properties. They're literally buying old people's investments for them, while getting lower pay and almost no wage growth relative to previous generations.

Young people have never had less to gain by bursting their balls paying for other people's investment property, being paid less and getting buckets of abuse from old people.

The social contract has been broken

That is true about material things, but how come someone in there twenties and even thirties can say I am not mature enough to get married, I would not have a clue about looking after a baby ect and think its either find to tell people that or think it funny.


How come in say the space of say 40 years people have become deskilled from a situation where a young person was brought up with the skills and abilities to look after children and run a home in their twenties, to a situation wher its perfectly acceptable to say they are too immature to be married or look aftre a baby and for it to be fine to say that

Something must have happened.




How come in the space of say 40 years

Dramatik

I'm a mature student and the other students in my class average age of 21 are very well put together, I was actually quite surprised, they are extremely hard working. There ain't no snowflakes in my class anyway most are in college till 8 or 9pm, if they aren't working that day and there's even a good few of us that regularly come in on Saturday, work permitting.

super_furry

mariaalice wrote: »

How come in the space of say 40 years

40 years ago they'd have the security and safety of having their own property long term. You could, after a few years in full time employment, have saved enough for a deposit and could get a mortgage and afford the repayments.

If not there was plenty of social housing that could be relied upon and would be there as a long-term and secure base from which you could plan your life.

When people can't get a mortgage and can't afford to save one because the average rent is over €2,000 a month, they don't have the long-term security to start planning to have kids - nevermind the fact that most of their money is spent on providing for themselves, so they can't afford to provide for a kid.

40-years ago a household could run of the wage of one person. That's not the case now and childcare costs are tipping to €1,000 a month. You need both parents working and the second wage is already half gone on childcare.

I'm 40 now and I can see that someone in their 20s starting out their career has no chance. It's not that they 'can't look after babies' - no-one can until they have to, it's the biggest crash course in the world - it's more a case that they can't afford to have babies, so why even think about it?

Dramatik

Dramatik wrote: »

I'm a mature student and the other students in my class average age of 21 are very well put together, I was actually quite surprised, they are extremely hard working. There ain't no snowflakes in my class anyway most are in college till 8 or 9pm, if they aren't working that day and there's even a good few of us that regularly come in on Saturday, work permitting.

That is very true its not about hard work, its about confidence in there own life which is often an inner thing so not obvious sometimes.

El_Duderino 09

mariaalice wrote: »

That is true about material things, but how come someone in there twenties and even thirties can say I am not mature enough to get married, I would not have a clue about looking after a baby ect and think its either find to tell people that or think it funny.


How come in say the space of say 40 years people have become deskilled from a situation where a young person was brought up with the skills and abilities to look after children and run a home in their twenties, to a situation wher its perfectly acceptable to say they are too immature to be married or look aftre a baby and for it to be fine to say that

Something must have happened.




How come in the space of say 40 years

My FIL says they didn't have a clue about having children either. MIL had younger siblings do she had done experience. They just muddled through as best they could. He tells me that we can expect to make bad decisions as parents and there are lots of ways of parenting, the the only thing you HAVE to do is love the children. They Made mistakes, made good decisions and learned as they went. That's what everyone does, isn't it?

That a what they tell me anyway.