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Population and Migration 2019 - CSO figures

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13

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    #62
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,875 ✭✭✭enricoh


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    from a number of conversations i had with the census taker who covered the apartment building i was living in in 2016, the participation rate by non EU residents is tiny. most of my neighbours were from outside the EU, none...NONE of them returned a census form. Most wouldn't open the door to her. This was Dublin city centre. I know its anecdotal but if this pattern is in any way common then we really have no idea who lives here.

    After the last census fingal co. Council looked into renting some of the many empty houses to get people off the housing list.
    They took a sample of 70 houses iirc and went investigating if they could be rented. Turns out 2 of them had no one living there! That plan was swiftly dropped!


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    #63
    InTheShadows
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    Ireland's population has increased by 1 million since 2002
    And FG want to add another 1 million. It's utter madness


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    #64
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,938 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    And FG want to add another 1 million. It's utter madness

    Have you a link for that?


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    #65
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,114 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Boggles wrote: »
    Have you a link for that?

    He doesn't because it doesn't exist.

    They are planning for an extra million because that is what is projected.


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    #66
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,545 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Welcome to Ireland 2019 - I had the same conversation with my census taker here in the sunny south east where natives are in danger of becoming a minority - certainly in the town itself.

    Iv heard several times that Gorey is infested with Dubs :pac:


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    #67
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    If you want your pension paid then yes, yes it is.

    Ireland is way under populated so it is very positive to see decent population growth.

    Could be better though once more new housing starts coming on stream. That's the biggest factor holding things back in my opinion.

    Just on this point. Irish people aren't having as many kids because 1)it is extremely expensive to have more than 1/2 kids and 2) it is almost impossible to afford and raise kids in a one income family.

    So, are we going to suddenly pay these migrants over the odds for the same work Irish people do, so that they can afford large families?? Or are they being brought in not to bother working??

    If it is the latter, using common sense, the social benefits pot will be a lot less, meaning there will be even less money for pensions.

    Care to explain how this will work???


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    #68
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Generally OK as far as I can see. The banlieue continue to be an issue but France is getting to a point of accepting multi-culturalism. Having good sport teams has helped there!

    https://youtu.be/6gZFGpNdH1A


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    #69
    jay0109
    Registered Users Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭jay0109


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    from a number of conversations i had with the census taker who covered the apartment building i was living in in 2016, the participation rate by non EU residents is tiny. most of my neighbours were from outside the EU, none...NONE of them returned a census form. Most wouldn't open the door to her. This was Dublin city centre. I know its anecdotal but if this pattern is in any way common then we really have no idea who lives here.

    The neighbour's beside me in my old gaff in 2016 were a Romanian family. Lovely people...worked hard, raised their child well. We went to kids parties in each other's houses etc.
    But in that small 3 bed house, they had 5 adults and 2 kids sleeping upstairs. And more often than not, they had a few more adults sleeping in the living room.

    One census form went into that house and just the main family of 2 adults and 1 kid filled it out. I know this because they told me and also because I knew the census taker for our area.
    The census taker also told me that the non-participation rate was surprisingly high (he was a 1st timer) and that he had to work really hard to get anything back at all from mostly immigrant households. He also felt that many of those returns were very understated based on his own observations in the neighbourhood over the years.


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    #70
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    recedite wrote: »
    Not sure it would work here right now.
    Apart from being tech savvy and well educated, they are also very honest over there in Japan. Crime rates are low.
    That's the advantage of a very cohesive society. Society looks after the individual, and the individual respects the society they live in. Many towns and villages in Ireland were like that only one or two generations ago.

    Japan isn't tech savy despite being at the forefront of modern electronics industry a few decades ago. They never really moved beyond the fax for business communications and are love a bit of bureaucracy. The vending machine prevalence is more of a cultural thing than anything.


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    #71
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Japan isn't tech savy...
    Hmmm...
    xckjoo wrote: »
    The vending machine prevalence is more of a cultural thing than anything.
    Indeed, the samurai would often take a break in the middle of a battle to grab a bag of crisps and a cola from the vending machine at the edge of the battlefield.


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    #72
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    recedite wrote: »
    Hmmm... Indeed, the samurai would often take a break in the middle of a battle to grab a bag of crisps and a cola from the vending machine at the edge of the battlefield.
    Not too many vending machines around in feudal times mate. You're a few hundred years out there. Lots of fax machines still knocking about Japan though. More fax machines than samurai anyway that's for sure.


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    #73
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,114 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They are/were also super slow to take up credit cards. They also took a long time to move away from flip phones. I wouldn't have said they were wildly tech savvy as a population.


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    #74
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Carrying cash, you are vulnerable to being robbed by your fellow citizens. With cards you can be defrauded by foreign hackers. Its a balance, but for Japanese they only need worry about the latter.
    I don't know about flip top phones, but you'd need to be fairly tech savvy to use a Japanese jax.

    They would consider our toilets to be only fit for barbarians :pac:


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    #75
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    enricoh wrote: »
    After the last census fingal co. Council looked into renting some of the many empty houses to get people off the housing list.
    They took a sample of 70 houses iirc and went investigating if they could be rented. Turns out 2 of them had no one living there! That plan was swiftly dropped!


    Where was this reported? Have you a link to the article?


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    #76
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Welcome to Ireland 2019 - I had the same conversation with my census taker here in the sunny south east where natives are in danger of becoming a minority - certainly in the town itself.


    What town is that?


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    #77
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,875 ✭✭✭enricoh


    cameramonkey wrote: »
    Where was this reported? Have you a link to the article?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/number-of-vacant-homes-may-be-grossly-overstated-1.3220063%3fmode=amp.

    The study involved physically checking out 76 “empty” homes to discover that 63 of them were in fact fully occupied.

    It was 63 of 76 that were in use


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    #78
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    enricoh wrote: »
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/number-of-vacant-homes-may-be-grossly-overstated-1.3220063%3fmode=amp.

    The study involved physically checking out 76 “empty” homes to discover that 63 of them were in fact fully occupied.
    It was 63 of 76 that were in use
    And this is indicative of the situation in urban areas all around the country.
    The government has no idea of the amount of non-nationals in the country and this is due to our porous open borders. The government uses census numbers for planning purposes, so it is no wonder that our services are stretched to the limit.

    What's happening in my locality is those outside the definition of legal residents of the State are having children as soon as possible, which allows access to children's allowance and from there to welfare/free housing/free healthcare etc.


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    #79
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,451 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Kivaro wrote: »
    And this is indicative of the situation in urban areas all around the country.
    The government has no idea of the amount of non-nationals in the country and this is due to our porous open borders. The government uses census numbers for planning purposes, so it is no wonder that our services are stretched to the limit.

    What's happening in my locality is those outside the definition of legal residents of the State are having children as soon as possible, which allows access to children's allowance and from there to welfare/free housing/free healthcare etc.

    If you do not have a legal right of residence in this State, you will not be regarded as habitually resident.

    someone can not calim child Benefit if they are not habitually resident and you can not be havitutally resident if you do not have a legal right of residency.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html


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    #80
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    There are a lot of statutes on the books in this country, with certain requirements and rules on how something should work. The reality is completely different on the ground.
    Just like the situation reported recently about Nigerians coming to Ireland and within days end up on housing lists without meeting the habitually residency rule. They are generally caught when they become involved in crime and end up in court.


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    #81
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Just on this point. Irish people aren't having as many kids because 1)it is extremely expensive to have more than 1/2 kids and 2) it is almost impossible to afford and raise kids in a one income family.

    So, are we going to suddenly pay these migrants over the odds for the same work Irish people do, so that they can afford large families?? Or are they being brought in not to bother working??

    If it is the latter, using common sense, the social benefits pot will be a lot less, meaning there will be even less money for pensions.

    Care to explain how this will work???

    None of the "we need migrants to come, have large families, to pay our pensions" brigade have even attempted to answer this question. Could any of you explain to me how this will work??


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    #82
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    None of the "we need migrants to come, have large families, to pay our pensions" brigade have even attempted to answer this question. Could any of you explain to me how this will work??
    Probably because it's based on such shaky assumptions. Like the assumption that cost is the driving factor in the number of kids people have. I'd think that numbers would show that poorer people tend to have more kids. It's certainly true worldwide, but I'd guess it's also true on a national level. Sex ed and improvements in healthcare are generally the biggest drivers in reduction of birth rate. Can't think of a single case of financial incentives having a significant impact on increasing birth rates, but I could be wrong.


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    #83
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Probably because it's based on such shaky assumptions. Like the assumption that cost is the driving factor in the number of kids people have. I'd think that numbers would show that poorer people tend to have more kids. It's certainly true worldwide, but I'd guess it's also true on a national level. Sex ed and improvements in healthcare are generally the biggest drivers in reduction of birth rate. Can't think of a single case of financial incentives having a significant impact on increasing birth rates, but I could be wrong.

    So then if someone of any nationality is in Ireland and receiving the same sex e and healthcare, it is likely that their birth rate would drop as well and we would end up circular position of always needing "more"?


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    #84
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    enricoh wrote: »
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/number-of-vacant-homes-may-be-grossly-overstated-1.3220063%3fmode=amp.

    The study involved physically checking out 76 “empty” homes to discover that 63 of them were in fact fully occupied.

    It was 63 of 76 that were in use


    behind a paywall


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    #85
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Just on this point. Irish people aren't having as many kids because 1)it is extremely expensive to have more than 1/2 kids and 2) it is almost impossible to afford and raise kids in a one income family.

    So, are we going to suddenly pay these migrants over the odds for the same work Irish people do, so that they can afford large families?? Or are they being brought in not to bother working??

    If it is the latter, using common sense, the social benefits pot will be a lot less, meaning there will be even less money for pensions.

    Care to explain how this will work???
    And what happens when the next recession hits?
    Where is the money going to come from (remembering that we are one of most indebted countries in the OECD) to continue the massive social welfare payouts?


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    #86
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    enricoh wrote: »
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/number-of-vacant-homes-may-be-grossly-overstated-1.3220063%3fmode=amp.

    The study involved physically checking out 76 “empty” homes to discover that 63 of them were in fact fully occupied.

    It was 63 of 76 that were in use
    In last year’s census, a total of 183,000 vacant residential properties were identified across State, some 30,000 of which were in Dublin....
    In the second phase of the project, inspectors from the council visited 74 of those 361 properties to determine their status. They discovered that only 13 were actually vacant.
    Extrapolating the findings to the 360 properties, it could mean that, out of the initial 3,000 properties identified, only between 50 and 60 might be residential properties that are vacant.
    Does anyone know how these properties were labelled as vacant by the census?
    Would the owner/landlord have filled out the census form falsely, or would the census surveyor have been unable to find anyone and just guessed it was vacant? Due to the curtains being drawn or something.

    Maybe a combination of both?


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    #87
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,875 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Kivaro wrote: »
    And what happens when the next recession hits?
    Where is the money going to come from (remembering that we are one of most indebted countries in the OECD) to continue the massive social welfare payouts?

    Eh tax the rich, bankers n landlords n taking apples billions should do it apparently!


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    #88
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,875 ✭✭✭enricoh


    recedite wrote: »
    Does anyone know how these properties were labelled as vacant by the census?
    Would the owner/landlord have filled out the census form falsely, or would the census surveyor have been unable to find anyone and just guessed it was vacant? Due to the curtains being drawn or something.

    Maybe a combination of both?

    No census returned, methinks. We were away when the last one came out n i couldn't be arsed filling it out when we came backn neither could me missus, so the cso can stick another 4 onto the population figures!


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    #89
    fat zombie
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭fat zombie


    The census is nonsense
    Just look at the official amount of Chinese in the country.
    Will you believe the census or your eyes?


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    #90
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    fat zombie wrote: »
    The census is nonsense
    Just look at the official amount of Chinese in the country.
    Will you believe the census or your eyes?


    Can you tell the difference between a Chinese person and a Korean? Can you tell the difference between a person of Asian origin with an Irish passport and one without? Do you believe that all Irish people are white? How do you know when you see something that is racist but the person that has written it does not make that connection?


    Do you get my drift?


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    #91
    fat zombie
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭fat zombie


    cameramonkey wrote: »
    Can you tell the difference between a Chinese person and a Korean? Can you tell the difference between a person of Asian origin with an Irish passport and one without? Do you believe that all Irish people are white? How do you know when you see something that is racist but the person that has written it does not make that connection?


    Do you get my drift?

    Typical lefty response, ostrich syndrome , refuse to see the forrest for the trees.


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