Help Needed

HelpNeededEx96

I have created an account to ask this. If that is a problem please remove, getting a bit desperate for advice. Sorry for this it may not be a lot of info to cover the full issue. I have an in law staying within me scared to leave the house. This is not their home but we have taken her in. The ex is not in a good place to see the in law along with kids. Now my question is, the ex has informed myself directly that he will come to my property to see the kids soon, the in law does not wish for this to happen. We have looked at protection orders and a barring order is not right for this situation it there anything I can do to keep them off my land (that’s the only way I can think of saying it haha) any help would be great.

zapper55

Your post is a little hard to follow. Do you mean your in law is staying and their ex wants to visit? If you are worried about what their behaviour if they arrive I would seek the advice of the local police station.

HelpNeededEx96

zapper55 wrote: »

Your post is a little hard to follow. Do you mean your in law is staying and their ex wants to visit? If you are worried about what their behaviour if they arrive I would seek the advice of the local police station.

Sorry, my in law is in my house, the ex is trying to come to the house, she is very scared

qwerty13

I don’t understand this. Is the in-law your ex’s parent? Or sibling? Or is the person in question your in-law from another relationship?

LegacyUser

A protection order does sounds like it could apply here.

The following is taken from citizens information:

A safety order is an order of the court which prohibits the violent person (the respondent) from committing further violence or threats of violence. If the person is not living with you, the safety order prohibits them from watching or being near your home and following or communicating (including electronically) with you or a dependent person...


and they describe violence as:

Domestic violence refers to the use of physical or emotional force or threat of physical force, including sexual violence, in an intimate relationship. As well as physical violence, domestic violence can also involve:

- emotional abuse
- the destruction of property
- controlling behaviour such as isolation from friends, family and other potential sources of support
- threats to others including children
- stalking
- control over access to money, personal items, food, transportation and communication.

Former partners are eligible and so are parents with a child in common.


Now you say she is very scared and that the ex is not in the right place to be around them so i'm going to assume that he is doing some of the things on that list. Going by my own past break up and the break ups of some of my friends I know how men can act in these situations, threats, intimidation, suicide threats if they don't get what they want, which in my eyes amounts to emotional abuse, in fact lots of the behaviour can amount to emotional abuse.

I'm not necessarily calling them all abusers because sometimes these guys are practically having mental breakdowns and are not acting like themselves, but their behaviour is terrifying. My ex was on tranquilisers and anti-d's and getting more angry and aggressive all and scary all the time. Have you spoken to the guards at all?

tara73

from simple facts I say you have the right to deny access to your property to anybody you wish. And it doesn't matter who's in the house with you.

That said I don't know the guy who wants to visit, is he aggressive or anything like that ?Why is your relative so scared, can only have something to do with violence? Regarding that, as poster above wrote, the best idea would be to contact/ask the guards asap.

HelpNeededEx96

tara73 wrote: »

from simple facts I say you have the right to deny access to your property to anybody you wish. And it doesn't matter who's in the house with you.

That said I don't know the guy who wants to visit, is he aggressive or anything like that ?Why is your relative so scared, can only have something to do with violence? Regarding that, as poster above wrote, the best idea would be to contact/ask the guards asap.

I have informed the Garda, he hasn’t been aggressive to her but everyone else he has been, that’s why she is scared. It so for all this by the way

leggo

Tell them (by text so you’ve some evidence, don’t chat on the phone) that you’ve been to the Gardaí, they’re aware of the situation and if they show up, not only will they not get entry but the Gardaí will be contacted immediately. If possible, try remind them too that this is a temporary situation and won’t stand them in good stead later when it comes to dealing with stuff like access to the kids, so they’re aware that their actions could have heavy consequences down the line.

They might huff and puff and act like they’ll come anyway but that’d be enough to put 99% of people off. And, if he hasn’t been violent yet, I doubt he’s in that 1%.

Another day

If there are kids, his kids, then unless they are in real danger then their father has a right to see them. Is there a compromise? I understand you don't want him in your home but it is not right to deny the children their father.

ILoveYourVibes

HelpNeededEx96 wrote: »

Sorry, my in law is in my house, the ex is trying to come to the house, she is very scared

He needs your permission to visit your property. You are within your rights to keep him of your property.

Tell him you don't want him to visit your property and you expect him to obey your wishes as the property owner /renter etc.

A court can order her to bring her children (unless they are adults) to another place etc. But if you don't want him on your property that is your decision.

He can't turn up at a random place owned by someone else just because his kids are there. He can ask the mom to bring them to a another place.

If there are kids, his kids, then unless they are in real danger then their father has a right to see them. Is there a compromise? I understand you don't want him in your home but it is not right to deny the children their father.

Yes but not on someone's property. He has zero right legally to meet them there. He can ask the mother to bring them to a neutral space though or to their old home.

The op isn't actually denying the right for the father to see a child. He isn't stopping the children and mother from leaving his property. The mother might be reluctant to but that is nothing to do with the OP. He isn't denying anyone anything.

I think its reasonable not to want a ruckus on your property.

AulWan

The OP may not be denying the right for the father to see his children, but they are enabling it.

No matter the issues between the adults,(in-law and ex) its not right that the man is being denied access to his children.

If the shoe was on the other foot, and their positions were reversed, she would be told to call the gardai to get her kids returned to the family home.

tara73

AulWan wrote: »

The OP may not be denying the right for the father to see his children, but they are enabling it.

No matter the issues between the adults,(in-law and ex) its not right that the man is being denied access to his children.

If the shoe was on the other foot, and their positions were reversed, she would be told to call the gardai to get her kids returned to the family home.

this is not a gender issue!

the OP clarified the father is an aggressive type and shows aggressivenes to many people. the mother of this children is scared and most obviously is looking for shelter and protection in the house of the OP to protect her and her children from possible violence.
let's stick to the obvious facts I would say.

ILoveYourVibes

AulWan wrote: »

The OP may not be denying the right for the father to see his children, but they are enabling it.

.

No he isn't. Its not his fault the relationship has broken down so badly.

The only two people responsible for this are the husband and wife.

Couples can't start blaming random people who have the kindness to actually put a roof over the kids head for their messy lives.

I bet the OP is paying for their electricity and food too.

The vast majority of people wouldn't want to be involved you know. And then the kids would be in some women's shelter.

I doubt the father has thanked him for putting a roof over his kids head at this stressful time.

I would be very very thankful to a son in law who cared enough about my children to give them shelter during my marital breakdown so they didn't end up in a shelter.

AulWan

tara73 wrote: »

this is not a gender issue!

the OP clarified the father is an aggressive type and shows aggressivenes to many people. the mother of this children is scared and most obviously is looking for shelter and protection in the house of the OP to protect her and her children from possible violence.
let's stick to the obvious facts I would say.

There is nothing to say the man is aggressive towards his children. He wants to see them, and he has a right too, just as they have the right to see him.

Maybe you should not assume facts that you don't know.

The issues and the relationships between the adults are completely separate and should be kept that way.

The mother acted illegally in removing the children from the family home without the consent of their other guardian, and is continuing to do so by denying their father access.

Another day

I asked was there a compromise as I read it that father wants to see his children. I doubt he wants to cause trouble. If the mother doesn't want to see him that is grand however unless the father is aggressive or violent to his children a court will award access. Compromise does work, it lessens anger, frustration and everyone wins to a degree. The OP won't have an unwanted visitor, the father sees his children, the wife can get someone to facilitate this.

I understand the wife not wanting to see him and shouldn't have to. Op has the right to refuse access, but offering an alternative will keep things calm. There has to be someone that can meet the ex with the children, in a park, McD's etc.

ILoveYourVibes

Another day wrote: »

Op has the right to refuse access, but offering an alternative will keep things calm. .

I am sorry but the man in question is responsible for keeping himself calm.

The ex needs to adult. No one can keep him calm but him.

Perhaps someone needs to tell him this and have a word.

AulWan

I hope he is also advised to ask the Gardai to escort him to the OPs home, so he can check on the wellbeing of his children who have been illegally removed from their home.

Good advice from Another Day. Maybe ask how you can faciliate the father seeing his children, instead of how you can keep him away.

Because your current stance is only going to raise his stress levels, and throw fuel on the bonfire.

ILoveYourVibes

AulWan wrote: »

I hope he is also advised to ask the Gardai to escort him to the OPs home, so he can check on the wellbeing of his children who have been illegally removed from their home.

.

Not necessarily illegal.

If not married the mother automatically has sole custody.

Also I am not sure of the OP's situation but we have a duty to take posters on PI in good faith.

I am sure his evaluation of the ex is more correct than ours.

He is an adult if he cannot control his own stress levels its time for collaborative mediation to organize things for this man.

There is zero excuse for barking aggression etc and its hardly going to be good for the kids to walk up to a man who is scary enough to frighten their mother.

Walking up to a man smiling and being genial in Miccy D's would be a totally different matter. But i take it in reality from what the op is saying this doesn't sound like its going to happen.

And its about this particular situation not generalizations about men and women going through separations.

AulWan

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Not necessarily illegal.

If not married the mother automatically has sole custody.

The laws on guardianship for unmarried fathers changed a couple of years back.

If they are married he is automaticaly a guardian. If they are not married, yet he lived with them then he is also their legal guardian regardless of the marital status between him and the mother, and as such his consent is needed to remove them from the home.

ILoveYourVibes

AulWan wrote: »

The laws on guardianship for unmarried fathers changed a couple of years back.

If they are married he is automaticaly a guardian. If they are not married, yet he lived with them then he is also their legal guardian regardless of the marital status between him and the mother, and as such his consent is needed to remove them from the home.

Shrug.

I wouldnt care if he was frightening me and my kids. Meeting him is going to traumatize them.

I would tell the guards my fears.


I would also tell the ex some guidelines on how I expect him to behave around me and family members being more respectful etc.

When i was convinced he was being genial then and only then would i think its a good environment for my kids to be in right now.

OP imo he will calm down and come to his senses in a week or so.

Actually TELL him his demeanor is frightening the wife and making her reticent about how the children might feel about meeting him. If he can at least act genial and do the pleasantries etc then you would actually be able to LET him up the house anyway.

AulWan

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Shrug.

I wouldnt care if he was frightening me and my kids. Meeting him is going to traumatize them.

Ah, so as a woman, you would demand all the protections of the law, but when the law means the father also has rights, you shrug and ignore it.

The OP says he was NOT agressive towards his ex, so there is no reason to assume he would be aggressive or traumatise his children.

The mother should be thinking about "our/their" kids, not "my/her" kids. The kids have two parents.

Look,when it all comes down to it, I don't really give a toss about the difficulties between the adults.

But putting the kids right in the middle of it like this, is a crap way for both of them to behave.

Let the man see his children.

ILoveYourVibes

AulWan wrote: »

Ah, so as a woman, you would demand all the protections of the law, but when the law means the father also has rights, you shrug and ignore it.

The OP says he was NOT agressive towards his ex, so there is no reason to assume he would be aggressive or traumatise his children.

The mother should be thinking about "our/their" kids, not "my/her" kids. The kids have two parents.

Look,when it all comes down to it, I don't really give a toss about the difficulties between the adults.

But putting the kids right in the middle of it like this, is a crap way for both of them to behave.

Let the man see his children.

The ex needs to act genial and adjust his demeanor so as not to frighten people.

The wife needs to be a little braver.

They both need to adult better.

It should not be a big deal to say to a grown man look people are a little nervous could you possibly make a big effort to be nice and not barky for an hr or so?



Similarly it shouldn't be a big deal to ask the mother to step up.

But if she is scared the kids will be. Going up to miccy d's to your scowling dad or however he is behaving isn't gonna work. He is going to have to fake it for their sakes.

If he is able to behave genially then the mother is going to have to find some sterner stuff.

But that's for them and the OP can't control them. All he can do is remind them a little of this.

He can't bring the kids or organize anything with them he has no legal rights over them.

I am sure it makes no difference to the op whether the ex sees his kids or not or where the kids live i am sure he would rather not have them in his house sounds crowded.

He isn't trying to not let the man see his kids. Its the wife. And the op can't control her.

Strictly speaking the op can't organize anything. All he can do is say what he is comfortable with happening on his property.

If he is comfortable letting the ex up then he should do that regardless of the wife.

AulWan

Let the man see his children, and maybe he might be a bit more inclined to be genial.

ILoveYourVibes

AulWan wrote: »

Let the man see his children, and maybe he might be a bit more inclined to be genial.

You aren't talking to the wife Aulwan. The op can't make that happen.

If he is comfortable with the ex on his property and that meeting taking place on his property then he should do that. But i doubt he is or he wouldn't have made the post.

And to be honest letting someone think they just get everyone to cave to them by intimidating people is not a good idea or life lesson.

He will just think it works and all I need to do to control people is be bullish instead of learning how to have relationships with the people around him.

wiggle16

Mod warning:

That's enough back and forth. Back on topic please guys.

HelpNeededEx96

Hi sorry I can post back now, just a few clarifications, my in law is staying here out of fear of the ex, they have been aggressive to members of their family. We have decided this house is best for the her and children for the time being. We are not stopping the father from seeing the kids but the behaviour displayed is a great cause for concern right now and we feel some time apart may help. I do not want the ex on my property at all, I myself have kids also and having his behaviour in view of them is something I will not allow. Thanks to everyone who has given help the advice is fantastic.

Edited this in after, the ex has said he will take the children to the mother. He seems to want sympathy from the mother after his aggressive behaviour to others. He is also acting very random and has done things I do not want to go into here but it is reason to be scared of his actions.

HelpNeededEx96

I’m sorry for another post but there was a few posts around the Garda. I have no issues him arriving to my house with Gardaí this home is the safest place she and the kids can be, but I have already informed the Gardaí of the on going issue and they have advised to contact them if the ex appears at my door.

AulWan

I don't believe that at all.

Without a safety or a protection order in place, the Gardai have no grounds unless you call them and say he is creating a scene.

Here's a thought. Maybe let the man come to your home and NOT obstruct him seeing his children and there will be no need for a scene or the Gardai. Or better yet, bring his children to see him at his mother's and avoid him having to come near your house at all.

Please don't claim to have no sway with the mother here, as you have very clearly inserted yourself here as a buffer between them and are very involved given all the "we have" and "we decided" statements above.

Or you can let things continue as they are and it is guaranteed to explode.

HelpNeededEx96

AulWan wrote: »

I don't believe that at all.

Without a safety or a protection order in place, the Gardai have no grounds unless you call them and say he is creating a scene.

Here's a thought. Maybe let the man come to your home and NOT obstruct him seeing his children and there will be no need for a scene or the Gardai. Or better yet, bring his children to see him at his mother's and avoid him having to come near your house at all.

Please don't claim to have no sway with the mother here, as you have very clearly inserted yourself here as a buffer between them and are very involved given all the "we have" and "we decided" statements above.

Or you can let things continue as they are and it is guaranteed to explode.

I am a father myself and the worst thing for me imaginable is not to see my children, but saying that there are behaviours, actions and attitudes that a parent can take ,mother or father, that can lead to that parent taking a break from the kids and the partner, if I was acting the way the ex is I would expect my wife to take the same steps. In this case I have no doubt that it is the correct way forward temporary. I have my children and my in-law’s children under my roof and I may be taking the wrong approach for some people but the safety of the children, physical and mental, is the most important thing right now. He will be given a choice and chance to see the kids when this behaviour changes but during this it is not a good idea. If he explodes and cannot talk reason ,it shows me, speaking just for me, but he is not ready to be around them. I wish I could explain everything but he is a danger to not only those around him but himself also.


And with sway, there is always sway in any situation, I obviously don’t like him or the situation, but again we have all sat down and discuss this best you can expect for the situation I believe, but again I can only speak for myself.

AulWan

Are you a doctor or a mental health professional who is qualified to assess him and make those kind of decisions?

If you are concerned he is a danger to his children, have Tusla been contacted?

You also admit you dislike him, which means you are not an impartial person here.

If he needs some kind of help, offer to get him help, instead of just telling him to go away and come back when he is all better. You've chosen to involve yourself deeply in his family now, so you can't just sit back and deal with one half of it only.

At this point, if he is really as dangerous and erratic as you believe, then the correct route to take is to contact Tusla, and leave it to the professionals to make the assessments.

But just telling him he can't see his children until he meets certain conditions (set by you?) or threatening him with the Gardai for wanting to see his children, is not going to resolve anything, anytime soon.

See post 17 re fuel and bonfires, provoking the situation, not stabilising it. If it's come this far, then professional intervention is needed.

I'm out. Anything else is going around in circles.

Another day

Have you witnessed this behaviour? I ask as I know many people who exaggerate to gain sympathy and support. Be very sure that what you say about him is 100% true.

I'll ask again is he aggressive or violent with his children? If not then please find a compromise.

And just for the record, I am from a violent family background and was never withheld from my father. I also know of cases where the father has done nothing wrong but tarred by lies and untruths hence my questions re you witnessing said behaviour.

Separation is never easy but it can be made easier by communication. If you block the father then he has every right to be angry, just as you would be if it happened to you.

wiggle16

Another day wrote: »

I'll ask again is he aggressive or violent with his children? If not then please find a compromise.

And just for the record, I am from a violent family background and was never withheld from my father. I also know of cases where the father has done nothing wrong but tarred by lies and untruths hence my questions re you witnessing said behaviour.

Separation is never easy but it can be made easier by communication. If you block the father then he has every right to be angry, just as you would be if it happened to you.

With all respect, I think there is a lot of projection going on for a couple of posters. The OP obviously believes the woman and her kids are in danger or at risk. It is not up to the OP to find a compromise between them. They are adults.

The father's anger is not the OP's problem.

AulWan wrote: »

Are you a doctor or a mental health professional who is qualified to assess him and make those kind of decisions?

The OP doesn't need to be. He's taken someone into his home who is clearly in a bad situation. There is another person who the OP does not want to allow into his home. The OP is under no obligation to facilitate the man seeing his children or resolve the issues between the couple as parents. If the mother has taken the children illegally from their father then it's up to him to take the steps to resolve that, no one else can do it for him.

The OP has done absolutely nothing wrong. It is their choice who can set foot in their house, end of. It's not up to them to mediate between two parents. If you shelter someone you do not become responsible for their interactions with other people.

OP I would speak to the Gardaí again to get clarification of your position here and what exactly will happen if he comes to your door. The mother should be exploring getting a barring order if this is necessary - she may be in a difficult situation but she also has a responsibility for making sure that you are not being put at risk for sheltering her.

I would also discuss with her what her next move is going to be with regards a living situation. It's not an easy conversation to have when someone has nowhere else to go and it sounds unsympathetic, but she cannot stay with you long term under these conditions. She needs to get her ducks in a row.

Another day

The OP is involved whether he likes it or not. Yes he has the right to deny access to anyone he doesn't want in his home, absolutely 100%. However, as the unwanted caller is the father of children residing in the house and he cannot see them there then yes compromise is required to facilitate that wish. If the in law residing there cannot deal with her ex then someone has to step up.