Greta and the aristocrat sail the high seas to save the planet.

Tell me how

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Climate protesters getting arrested now at a college football game in the States. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of this nonsense.

Harvard football captain supports the call for action.

https://twitter.com/DivestHarvard/status/1198336392696410113

Maybe you saw these tweets on Twitter also today.

https://twitter.com/ZonePhysics/status/1198375871238807553

and,

https://twitter.com/Forbes/status/1198379443615682563

A lot of nonsense around alright, isn't there.

Gaoth Laidir

Tell me how wrote: »

Harvard football captain supports the call for action.

https://twitter.com/DivestHarvard/status/1198336392696410113

Maybe you saw these tweets on Twitter also today.

https://twitter.com/ZonePhysics/status/1198375871238807553

and,

https://twitter.com/Forbes/status/1198379443615682563

A lot of nonsense around alright, isn't there.

Yep, all that is nonsense alright.

Graces7

There used to be a saying.. "There is none so blind and those who won't see."

randomspud

Koalas have apparently been functionally extinct since earlier this year.


You'd think the people who claimed this at the time would have warned us that these bushfires were going to cause the exact same headlines again later in the year.

Tell me how

Graces7 wrote: »

There used to be a saying.. "There is none so blind and those who won't see."

They can see Graces7, they just don't care.

That's why it'll ultimately take legislation because relying on the good natured morals of most of society can be negated entirely by just a few trying to undermine it. Bad apples and all that, to use another phrase.

gozunda

Graces7 wrote: »

There used to be a saying.. "There is none so blind and those who won't see."

And another "There's none so daft as folk"*

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

*modern version ...

Thakfully the screaming heebie jeebies has bugger all to do with any science...

drunkmonkey

You can’t legislate for bush fires there a common thing in Australia unless started maliciously.
Absolutely nothing to do with mankind, it’s a natural event.

Tell me how

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You can’t legislate for bush fires there a common thing in Australia unless started maliciously.
Absolutely nothing to do with mankind, it’s a natural event.

Australian Bushfires.

Will you ring the Professor and tell him they are barking up the wrong tree. The idiots seem to have gotten the following idea somehow.

Yes, there is a link between climate change and the prevalence and severity of fires. In fact, the research identifying a link between fires and climate change is "old hat", says Professor Bradstock. "The research has all been done. We don’t need to keep doing it."

jackboy

Tell me how wrote: »

Australian Bushfires.

Will you ring the Professor and tell him they are barking up the wrong tree. The idiots seem to have gotten the following idea somehow.

Most of the fires in Australia are caused by man. Arson and accidents are the main causes.

Gynoid

Human activities are estimated to have caused approximately 1.0°C of global warming above pre-industrial levels, with a
likely range of 0.8°C to 1.2°C. Global warming is likely to reach 1.5°C between 2030 and 2052 if it continues to increase
at the current rate. (high confidence)
Warming from anthropogenic emissions from the pre-industrial period to the present will persist for centuries to millennia and
will continue to cause further long-term changes in the climate system, such as sea level rise, with associated impacts (high
confidence), but these emissions alone are unlikely to cause global warming of 1.5°C (medium confidence).

This morning I downloaded the Headline Statements from Summary for Policy Makers of the newest IPCC Global Warming Report.
You can get it here - https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/sites/2/2019/06/SR15_Headline-statements.pdf

Greta Thunberg bases many of her claims on IPCC reports. They are the global UN body charged with informing us all...

If you read further on in the Headline Statements there appears to be considerably less hysteria than one might expect to be able to form the bedrock of an ideological dogma at the root of a Planetary Catastrophy Cult. And this is from the IPCC who are heavily invested for their raison d'etre in alarmism.

Yes, yes, I know about averages and how 1.5 is already said to be bad et...
But, even the IPCC suggest humans are probably only responsible for 0.8c of that by many estimates, and that 1.5c will be on the manageable scale at the end of the day. 100 % I see the need for cleaning up pollution, removing support from idiotic endless growth economic fantasies, curbing consumerism, being environmenatlly responsible etc - I just do not see the need AT ALL for this horrific screeching millenarianism. It is bizarre.

Gaoth Laidir

The Indian Ocean Dipole, a natural oscillation in Indian Ocean sea-surface temperature distribution, is at a record high this season and has led to the hot and dry conditions up to now. The Australian Bureau of Meteorology said this, not me, so before resorting to the usual name-calling, it might be better to actually go and learn the real science behind these events. By the way, the IOD is also the reason for the multiple hurricanes in the Indian Ocean last month too, which of course the media - but not only the media - had instead attributed to "climate change".

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/iod/#tabs=Positive-IOD-impacts

Drier than average winter–spring
A positive IOD often results in less rainfall than average over parts of Australia. The map below shows rainfall during positive IOD years is generally below the long-term average (decile 3 or lower, indicated by the red shading) across central and southern parts of the country. In no part of the country is there a tendency towards above-average rainfall (decile 8 or higher, indicated by the blue shading).

Warmer than average winter–spring in the south
A positive IOD often results in warmer than average temperatures for parts of Australia. The maps below show the typical maximum and minimum temperature impacts during a positive IOD. Average maximum temperatures are generally warmer than normal (decile 8 or higher, indicated by the yellow–orange shading) over large parts of Western Australia, South Australia and Victoria. Average minimum temperatures are typically warmer than normal in southwest Western Australia but cooler than normal in parts of the north.

BOM Outlook issued November 21.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/outlooks/#/overview/summary/

Climate outlook overview
A drier than average summer is likely for eastern Australia
Above average daytime temperatures very likely this summer.
Summer nights likely to be warmer than average except in the southeast.
A strong positive Indian Ocean Dipole (IOD) and periods of negative Southern Annular Mode (SAM) continue to influence the outlook, increasing the likelihood of warmer and drier conditions for large parts of Australia. The IOD is likely to persist until mid summer, and the negative SAM is expected until at least mid-December.

Gaoth Laidir

And the weekly update from the BOM

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/tropical-note/

Positive Indian Ocean Dipole to delay Australian monsoon onset

The positive Indian Ocean Dipole (IOD) is expected to delay the onset of the 2019–20 north Australian monsoon. The decay of the IOD is associated with the seasonal development of a monsoon trough in the southern hemisphere around December, but this process is well behind its typical schedule. Latest analysis of wind patterns across the Indian Ocean tropics show no sign of a tropical trough south of the equator—a feature that is usually well established by this time of the year.

Climate models generally agree that the positive IOD will continue until January 2020. The current rainfall outlook issued by the Bureau also reflects the influence of the positive IOD, as indicated by the high likelihood of drier than average conditions across much of Australia until the end of 2019.

The positive Indian Ocean Dipole (IOD) remains strong, although the latest weekly value dropped slightly to +1.6 °C. The reduced value is likely due to the recent passage of the Madden–Julian Oscillation over the eastern Indian Ocean, which acted to temporarily weaken the local easterly winds associated with the positive IOD.

Read more about the Indian Ocean Dipole

Madden–Julian Oscillation rapidly weakens

With no Madden–Julian Oscillation (MJO), or other tropical atmospheric waves, expected to significantly influence northern Australia in the near term, rainfall across the Australian tropics is expected to remain below average, as the positive IOD maintains its dominance as the key climate driver across the region.

A pulse of the MJO rapidly weakened as it passed over American longitudes during the past week. Most climate models predict this pulse will become indiscernible in the next few days and remain that way for the next one to two weeks.

An MJO over the Americas at this time of the year is typically associated with reduced cloudiness and rainfall across northern Australia, the Maritime Continent and much of South-East Asia. An indiscernible MJO will have no significant influence on tropical rainfall patterns across these regions.

Read more about the Madden–Julian Oscillation

Tropical cyclone activity continues over western North Pacific
Tropical storm Kalmaegi (Ramon) is forecast to make landfall at Luzon, northern Philippines, late Tuesday, 19 November, and generate damaging winds (Australian category 2 tropical cyclone equivalent) and widespread heavy rainfall. Kalmaegi (Ramon) is expected to dissipate as it slowly moves over the Philippines and is not forecast to re-intensify.

Ex-typhoon Fengshen, which peaked with wind speeds equivalent to an Australian category 3 system, dissipated while over open waters well to the east of Japan. Fengshen did not directly affect any populated land masses.

A developing tropical low several hundreds of kilometres east of the Philippines may intensify to tropical cyclone strength in the coming days.

Tropical cyclone information for this region available at the Japan Meteorological Agency.

drunkmonkey

Tell me how wrote: »

Australian Bushfires.

Will you ring the Professor and tell him they are barking up the wrong tree. The idiots seem to have gotten the following idea somehow.

The professor didn’t say mankind is causing bushfires. Are you of the opinion man came before bushfires?
I suppose we wiped out the dinosaurs as well.

Gaoth Laidir

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The professor didn’t say mankind is causing bushfires. Are you of the opinion man came before bushfires?
I suppose we wiped out the dinosaurs as well.

These people post links of what they want to believe and ignore the science. My two posts prove that.

gozunda

Gynoid wrote: »

This morning I downloaded the Headline Statements from Summary for Policy Makers of the newest IPCC Global Warming Report.
You can get it here - https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/sites/2/2019/06/SR15_Headline-statements.pdf

Greta Thunberg bases many of her claims on IPCC reports. They are the global UN body charged with informing us all...

If you read further on in the Headline Statements there appears to be considerably less hysteria than one might expect to be able to form the bedrock of an ideological dogma at the root of a Planetary Catastrophy Cult. And this is from the IPCC who are heavily invested for their raison d'etre in alarmism.

Yes, yes, I know about averages and how 1.5 is already said to be bad et...
But, even the IPCC suggest humans are probably only responsible for 0.8c of that by many estimates, and that 1.5c will be on the manageable scale at the end of the day. 100 % I see the need for cleaning up pollution, removing support from idiotic endless growth economic fantasies, curbing consumerism, being environmenatlly responsible etc - I just do not see the need AT ALL for this horrific screeching millenarianism. It is bizarre.

I would add that Greta is well on record for screaming that all the adults are to blame for her crappy childhood and that civilisation is going to end in the next decade or wtte amongst other things. She is also the apparent figure head of the 'Planetary Catastrophy Cult'. I see the BBC have asked the kid to direct one of its radio programmes. That should be a hoot anyway ...

Gynoid

gozunda wrote: »

I would add that Greta is well on record for screaming that all the adults are to blame for her crappy childhood ...

Yep...

Tell me how

Gynoid wrote: »

I see the need for cleaning up pollution, removing support from idiotic endless growth economic fantasies, curbing consumerism, being environmenatlly responsible etc - I just do not see the need AT ALL for this horrific screeching millenarianism. It is bizarre.

This is it in a nutshell, 'I know there needs to be change, but I'm damned if a young girl is going to be the one who makes it happen'.

Appears all the dinosaurs haven't been killed just yet.

Tell me how

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The professor didn’t say mankind is causing bushfires. Are you of the opinion man came before bushfires?
I suppose we wiped out the dinosaurs as well.

Way to slalom around the professors point. Nearly impressive dedication to ignoring the cause and effect of climate change.

Gaoth Laidir

Tell me how wrote: »

Way to slalom around the professors point. Nearly impressive dedication to ignoring the cause and effect of climate change.

Meanwhile you yourself are slaloming around the real cause of the bushfires this month. No smart reply to the evidence I posted. No reply at all. Maybe you just don't understand the science, or maybe you just didn't want to read it.

AlekSmart

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Meanwhile you yourself are slaloming around the real cause of the bushfires this month. No smart reply to the evidence I posted. No reply at all. Maybe you just don't understand the science, or maybe you just didn't want to read it.

Fear ye not !

The British Broadcasting Corporation will be facilitating a Christmas Address which will sweep all smart replies into the abyss.

Make sure to check the frequency & time of the broadcast !

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-50515081

Dr. Bre

Poor greta. If she was Syrian nobody would give a toss

Tell me how

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Meanwhile you yourself are slaloming around the real cause of the bushfires this month. No smart reply to the evidence I posted. No reply at all. Maybe you just don't understand the science, or maybe you just didn't want to read it.

Ah, yes, I must respond to your query while you ignore mine.

I didn't respond because there were just so many elements to it that in the context of this wider discussion, it just made me shake my head and think FFS.

Firstly, you using a scientific report in an attempt to support your argument while simultaneously deriding scientists who have collectively said humans need to change our behaviour and use of materials is either plain and simple hypocrisy or flat out misunderstanding.

Secondly, that you do not understand that that same report also supports the wider scientific argument that recent causal events leading to catastrophic outcomes such as bushfires are increasing in frequency and severity and this is the basis of several scientific efforts who then point out that that impact of human practices are at the start of the line in being one of the reasons why events are now happening much as they are.

You can respond to the views of the Professor now if you don't mind.

Gynoid

Tell me how wrote: »

This is it in a nutshell, 'I know there needs to be change, but I'm damned if a young girl is going to be the one who makes it happen'.

Appears all the dinosaurs haven't been killed just yet.

Anyone who did not figure out when they were pre teens that one needs to be environmentally aware and responsible is perhaps a slow learner. That is not what Greta and her devotees like the wealthy cretans in Extinction Rebellion are preaching and screeching. She and they are the face of a globalised taxing system that is far more to do with wealth transfer and control than to do with actually cleaning up the place. Ever notice how the big knobs never go for the jugular and decide to abandon growth economics. No sir, thats how they make their purses full. People do not object to a kid telling them to be environmentally responsible, they object to a kid fronting an hysterical cult which says the world is gonna end.

Tuisceanch

gozunda wrote: »

1.I would add that Greta is well on record for screaming that all the adults are to blame for her crappy childhood and that civilisation is going to end in the next decade or wtte amongst other things. 2.She is also the apparent figure head of the 'Planetary Catastrophy Cult'.

1. No she didn't. Please prove otherwise.
2. No such organisation exists. Pure fabrication hysterically regurgitated for propaganda purposes.

You need to apply yourself better to the subject matter to be taken seriously. Catastrophic failure. A 16 year old could debate better. Here's some reading material to better acquaint yourself with the subject. You're welcome.

https://www.ippr.org/files/2019-02/this-is-a-crisis-february2019.pdf

Gaoth Laidir

Tell me how wrote: »

Ah, yes, I must respond to your query while you ignore mine.

I didn't respond because there were just so many elements to it that in the context of this wider discussion, it just made me shake my head and think FFS.

Firstly, you using a scientific report in an attempt to support your argument while simultaneously deriding scientists who have collectively said humans need to change our behaviour and use of materials is either plain and simple hypocrisy or flat out misunderstanding.

Secondly, that you do not understand that that same report also supports the wider scientific argument that recent causal events leading to catastrophic outcomes such as bushfires are increasing in frequency and severity and this is the basis of several scientific efforts who then point out that that impact of human practices are at the start of the line in being one of the reasons why events are now happening much as they are.

You can respond to the views of the Professor now if you don't mind.

I think you got the wrong guy. Where did I deride scientists? All I pointed out was that this year's bushfires are due to a natural phenomenon that is well understood and not linked to man. This followed your tweets on the koalas and professor. The amount of immediate attribution of literally every event now to man - be it the bushfires, Venice flooding, Oman hurricanes, you name it - is totally ridiculous at this stage, but it goes on unabated.

You've almost 10,000 posts in dozens of different threads over 5 years, but not one of them in a scientific forum, such as the Weather forum. That's fine, maybe you're not scientifically minded, no more than I'm politically minded. I'm posting in the Politics forum purely to try to educate people that may not have have the scientific interest or knowledge to objectively analyse these events. Purely relying on media coverage, which is what you've quoted, is not the best course of action.

Go to the weather forum and look at my posts on e.g. Arctic and Greenland ice melt to see if I'm making it up or not. I don't go for hyperbole one way or the other, but it seems most people do nowadays.

Gaoth Laidir

Tuisceanch wrote: »

1. No she didn't. Please prove otherwise.
2. No such organisation exists. Pure fabrication hysterically regurgitated for propaganda purposes.

You need to apply yourself better to the subject matter to be taken seriously. Catastrophic failure. A 16 year old could debate better. Here's some reading material to better acquaint yourself with the subject. You're welcome.

https://www.ippr.org/files/2019-02/this-is-a-crisis-february2019.pdf

I wonder has this 16-yr old ever heard of the Indian Ocean Dipole or Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. No, I didn't think so.

Tuisceanch

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

I wonder has this 16-yr old ever heard of the Indian Ocean Dipole or Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. No, I didn't think so.

Didn't realize you were only 16. Very impressive. A Sheldon like character. I think,however, you're trying to push your credentials too much rather than explaining your nuanced position which I'm sure many people would be very interested to hear. You do accept I imagine that AGW is a real phenomenon which perhaps needs to be addressed given the geopolitical implications if it's not. I'm sure you would agree that degrading a serious subject to rantings about nonsensical religious or communist conspiracy theories is not the best use of anybodies time.

Tell me how

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

I think you got the wrong guy. Where did I deride scientists? All I pointed out was that this year's bushfires are due to a natural phenomenon that is well understood and not linked to man. This followed your tweets on the koalas and professor. The amount of immediate attribution of literally every event now to man - be it the bushfires, Venice flooding, Oman hurricanes, you name it - is totally ridiculous at this stage, but it goes on unabated.

You've almost 10,000 posts in dozens of different threads over 5 years, but not one of them in a scientific forum, such as the Weather forum. That's fine, maybe you're not scientifically minded, no more than I'm politically minded. I'm posting in the Politics forum purely to try to educate people that may not have have the scientific interest or knowledge to objectively analyse these events. Purely relying on media coverage, which is what you've quoted, is not the best course of action.

Go to the weather forum and look at my posts on e.g. Arctic and Greenland ice melt to see if I'm making it up or not. I don't go for hyperbole one way or the other, but it seems most people do nowadays.

Good for you.

I'm not a scientist, but have numerous degrees which I feel achieving gave me a good insight in to the premise of research/test/record/compare/predict/ publish/analyse etc which is common in scientific fields.

You still didn't comment on the points mentioned though other than to fly your flag. Does that mean you should be taken as the expert on these matters?

Why is it your practice of posting anonymously on internet weather forums bestows a level of expertise but those publicly published professionals aren't being listened to?

Tell me how

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

I wonder has this 16-yr old ever heard of the Indian Ocean Dipole or Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. No, I didn't think so.

Is this it? The 16 year old us getting the attention? Is that what the problem is.

She has repeatedly said that she does not have the answers, how could she, but that people should listen to the scientists.

Why do you have an issue with that?

Gaoth Laidir

Tuisceanch wrote: »

Didn't realize you were only 16. Very impressive. A Sheldon like character. I think,however, you're trying to push your credentials too much rather than explaining your nuanced position which I'm sure many people would be very interested to hear. You do accept I imagine that AGW is a real phenomenon which perhaps needs to be addressed given the geopolitical implications if it's not. I'm sure you would agree that degrading a serious subject to rantings about nonsensical religious or communist conspiracy theories is not the best use of anybodies time.

Not sure why you're pretending you don't know that I was referring to the 16-yr old you were referring to and the subject of this thread.

Anyhow, is there an agw signal in the warming? I'm sure there is in there somewhere. Does it need to be addressed? Certainly not with the level of frantic hyperbole that has grown recently. Should we be moving away from fossil fuels? Of course. It's a finite resource and there are much cleaner ways of powering the planet. Should we be getting away from them because we're in some dire straits, hurtling towards a point of no return? No.

I'll say it again. The message that is going out the the people is not one that is based on ALL the facts. The only man-made signal in these latest fires is down to how they were started. The conditions that have led to their severity and duration are due to a 100% natural phenomenon, as explained in great detail by learned meteorologists way more qualified than me.

On your point about nonsensical religious conspiracy theories: well, that's exactly what some of the hype about Greta et al has become.