Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Private profiles - please note that profiles marked as private will soon be public. This will facilitate moderation so mods can view users' warning histories. All of your posts across the site will appear on your profile page (including PI, RI). Groups posts will remain private except to users who have access to the same Groups as you. Thread here
Some important site news, please read here. Thanks!

3D Printing of Parts for a Licensed Firearms, Legalities?

  • 12-08-2019 10:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 428 ✭✭ Brontosaurus
    Registered User


    From my understanding, in Ireland no single part of the firearm is what is legally defined as a "firearm", unlike in the US where the lower receiver/frame is the firearm and you require a license for it. So in Ireland, every part, including the screws, is the firearm?

    Is the making/printing of stocks, grips and handguards then technically manufacturing a firearm and thus needing some sort of license, or are you legally allowed to make any parts for a firearm you already own a license for?

    And as a side question, for rifles like 10/22s people pretty much end up replacing every single part, ending up with effectively a second rifle albeit disassembled, is it the act of assembling the parts into something functional creating a second firearm requiring a license?

    I ask because I got a 3D printer recently for hobbies and making artsy things, but was interested in printing a chasis for my rifle in something like nylon or ABS.

    The laws in this country are confusing.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭ meathstevie
    Registered User


    Your licence allows you to have your specific firearm and component parts for/from that particular firearm.

    I don't think it mentions anything about the origins of those component parts but verify that very carefully before you start printing a plastic shotgun stock or something.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    Possessing the parts under license is one thing as is having spare parts for a firearm you are licensed for.

    The line is drawn at manufacturing of parts and the receiver. The law specifically allows for you to have spare bits and even barrels once they are for the same caliber and firearm you are licensed on. A spare receiver with different serial number requires a new license.

    As for manufacturing parts that falls under the RFD authorisation as RFDs are treated the exact same as gunsmiths. IOW you need an RFD license for both or to do either.

    So in my not infallible opinion you need an RFD license to manufacture any part of a firearm that is classed as a firearm.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45
    Registered User


    The Ghost gun debate arrives at boards.:D
    And with leaps and bounds in technology this gets more intresting. For example , would you even have to go to a gun dealer/smith anymore,when they could literally sell you a programme or remote control your computer and 3d printer,and print up the part for you at home.Did you now illegally make a part?

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭ wicklow_hunter
    Registered User


    Making parts for rifles with rp technologies such as sls Selective Laser Sintering sends a shiver up my back in the wrong hands

    Essentially there are possibilities to make metal parts as well as plastic.

    Anyone with a head for Engineering can easily model and print off 3d Parts in Minutes

    possibilities are endless and in the wrong hands the technology can have devastating consequences.:o


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    This may be a simplistic view, but it's a criminal act to manufacture firearms/parts without authorisation/license so anyone doing this (without the requisite license(s)) is by default acting outside the law, a criminal and hence not going to adhere to laws anyways.

    Goes back to the argument that banning guns from the hand of law abiding, licensed, people will not stop criminals who work outside the law from continuing to get them illegally.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 10,210 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp
    Registered User


    Cass wrote: »
    This may be a simplistic view, but it's a criminal act to manufacture firearms/parts without authorisation/license so anyone doing this (without the requisite license(s)) is by default acting outside the law, a criminal and hence not going to adhere to laws anyways.

    Is making a stock at home illegal then?

    I'm not talking about receivers, bolts, barrels etc. Just a stock.

    I'm guessing probably.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    I want to stress the point that i'm not an authority so everything i say is an educated guess based on my reading/understanding of the Acts.

    Yes.

    It's a component part for a firearm which you covered to have under your firearms license. Even before this SI you could still change the stock on your gun assuming you had one made or bought a new one. However the idea of making one yourself has never really come up but probably will more and more as 3D printing becomes more affordable to the masses.

    This is when you move from buying a firearm component, covered by your license, to manufacturing.

    So take from that what you will, but i'd hazard a guess the answer is probably yes.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 428 ✭✭ Brontosaurus
    Registered User


    I'm not interested in printing load-bearing parts just to be clear, I've no interest in having plastic shrapnel in my face.

    Even if printing in nylon, a stock won't hold up nearly as well as something injection molded.

    Financially viable metal printers for the consumer are still a long ways off.

    So even making a stock out of some nice wood with a carving knife is illegal? I've seen a few homemade stocks, and have seen older posts of people talking about making their own/having seen some.

    So what if I were to replace a screw in my rifle with one from the hardware store, and then take the screw out, does that suddenly become a firearm part?

    If I make my own screw on a lathe to replace a stripped screw, that would then be equally as illegal as making a stock?

    Is the 3D printer aspect just giving people the heebie-jeebies?

    So all I need to do is pay thousands to become a manufacturer? Class.

    Edit: random thought, is modifying an existing part legal without being a manufacturer? Threading a barrel is one thing, but what about filing/polishing feed ramps, chambers, or dremling a smiley face into a wooden stock or even painting it or putting a hello-kitty sticker on it?

    Something tells me that not even the authorities would know the answer to these questions.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    I'm not interested in printing load-bearing parts just to be clear, I've not interest in having plastic shrapnel in my face.
    Does the firearm differentiate? It just says component parts of a firearm but doesn't, afaik, differentiate between load bearing parts and everything else.
    Financially viable metal printers for the consumer are still a long ways off.
    But will be with us at some point.
    So even making a stock out of some nice wood with a carving knife is illegal?
    I've seen a few homemade stocks, and have seen older posts of people talking about making their own/having seen their own.

    So what if I were to replace a screw in my rifle with one from the hardware store, and then take the screw out, does that suddenly become a firearm part?

    If I make my own screw on a lathe to replace a stripped screw, that would then be equally as illegal as making a stock?
    I'll answer all this in one go. Possibly to yes.

    Is it stupid, yes. Is there any real enforcement of it, no. Would AGS try, perhaps, but like the bulet clocks i'd say if you were licensed it would get thrown out of court, not to mention who would say (if stopped and challenged) "oh, btw my stock is not the original but a homemade job".

    As i've said before i'm no condoning illegality, but there is a line that AGS know we don't cross, that we don't cross, and everyone lives in blissful ignorance. Turn that leniency or tolerance into outright abuse and AGS' attitude could change, fast.
    Is the 3D printer aspect just giving people the heebie-jeebies?
    Yes, absolutely. They think we'll all buy one for a hundred quid and start churning out AK-47s with them.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    Something tells me that not even the authorities would know the answer to these questions.
    You, right now.

    PiercingOddFruitfly-size_restricted.gif

    Absolutely hitting the nail on the head. I don't know the definitive answer, AGS most likely wouldn't and i'd chance my arm by saying the guys that drafted the law probably don't know.

    Then after all that mess is sorted it still comes back to enforcement and the workability of it (God i'm using those words a lot this last few days).

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45
    Registered User


    Simple question to the answer...Do custom gunstock makers here,have gun dealer gun smith liscenses then? As then they are "manufacturing, altering,etc" a firearm component,and obviously must have the action to fit it properly and test it for function?

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    .Do custom gunstock makers here,have gun dealer gun smith liscenses then? ?

    Yes. The four i know do.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 428 ✭✭ Brontosaurus
    Registered User


    How much is that?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    RFD license? €1,000. Restricted RFD license, which can only be applied for after three years as an RFD, €1,5000 IIRC.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,124 BryanL
    Registered User


    Be interesting the hear if Edi from PSE Stocks needs a licence to manufacture stocks? Or is it just to take in actions when bedding to said stocks that the licence is needed?

    I can't understand at which point a slab of wooden laminate becomes a firearms component.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    BryanL wrote: »
    I can't understand at which point a slab of wooden laminate becomes a firearms component.
    1. Its a good point. Does it become a component part:
    2. When it's made
    3. When its fitted to the firearm (regardless of how many times it's taken on/off after that)]
    4. Or simply when the intent to make it for a firearm (meaning the lump of wood is now a firearm part).

    The problem is how a firearm is described in Section (1) of the Act.:
    “firearm” means—
    (a) a lethal firearm or other lethal weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged,
    (b) an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such a muzzle energy,
    (c) a crossbow,
    (d) any type of stun gun or other weapon for causing any shock or other disablement to a person by means of electricity or any other kind of energy emission,
    (e) a prohibited weapon,
    (f) any article which would be a firearm under any of the foregoing paragraphs but for the fact that, owing to the lack of a necessary component part or parts, or to any other defect or condition, it is incapable of discharging a shot, bullet or other missile or projectile or of causing a shock or other disablement, as the case may be,
    (g) except where the context otherwise requires, any component part of any article referred to in any of the foregoing paragraphs and, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, the following articles shall be deemed to be such component parts
    The other interesting part of the above is point (f). If you have something that is classed as a component part, even if its missing other necessary component parts to make it work/fire, then its still classed as a firearm.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45
    Registered User


    Making parts for rifles with rp technologies such as sls Selective Laser Sintering sends a shiver up my back in the wrong hands

    Essentially there are possibilities to make metal parts as well as plastic.

    Anyone with a head for Engineering can easily model and print off 3d Parts in Minutes

    possibilities are endless and in the wrong hands the technology can have devastating consequences.:o

    Will those sinter metal parts bear up to continious pressures of 10,000psi plus continously?.IE barrels?ASFIK the 10 thousand usd sinter made 1911,has a commercial barrel in it?

    Anyone with a head for engineering could use a lathe ,milling machine ,or even a bunch of files a hacksaw and a black&Decker drill and make a firearm too...Why go to such elaborateness of £D printing?All that is good for is just making maybe lighter non pressure bearing parts?

    The knowledge and good old metalworking technology is out there that allows anyone with some patience and an IQ of bathwater temps to be able to makea reasonably good gun. Heck the hill tribesmen in Darra in Pakistan,make 1st class repros of everything from SMLE rifles to M4s these days with nothing more than the most basic shop equipment that work 100 % and are spot on down to the markings.

    The 3d scare is just since Cody Wilson made a cheap 97% all plastic single shot pistol.That still needs a metal barrel insert.anti gun politicans sinc then have been losing what few marbles,that everyone with Wilsons 3D cad "Ghost machine" CNC milling device would be running off full auto semi full automatic M47s at the drop of a hat.:rolleyes:

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



Advertisement