The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Dots1982

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Its too big to have 4 though...
Also, the geographic setup must be considered. You cant have cork and kerry or galway and mayo. The area is too large for one team to operate sufficiently.

Every single angle has bee tried at this stage. Splitting dublin cannot be bested, simply because it is the best option.

Yhe coubtry could easily have 20 teams of the level of mayo tyrone donegal etc

Hogwash. Sorry, but how could the country have 20 teams of Mayo or Tyrone’s level?? What’s stopping them right now from being of that level?

And this 4 teams thing you are flouting makes no sense. Here’s the breakdown again...

Kildare Meath Westmeath 505. Pairc tailteann
Mayo Galway. 389 Salt hill
Cork Kerry 689.5. Pairc hi caoimh
Clare limerick Tipperary Waterford 590 Thurles
Wexford Kilkenny Laois Carlow Wicklow 532.5 Nowlan
Offaly longford roscommon Leitrim cavan 291 Hyde
Dublin North. Croke 700
Dublin South no stadium 700
Louth Armagh Tyrone Monaghan 543. Clones
Antrim Derry down 1.4. Casement
Donegal Sligo Fermanagh 285 Enniskillen

Kerry cork would be hard beaten but if that is the territory of the country producing the best footballers then they deserve to be the ones taking the silverwear.

MayoAreMagic

dunnerc wrote: »

Nope Dublin is not for splitting , keep on dreaming

In your hogwashed opinion...

dunnerc

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

In your hogwashed opinion...

In your hogwash opinion Dublin should split , Sorry we don't agree
No harm in you dreaming though …..

MayoAreMagic

Dots1982 wrote: »

Hogwash. Sorry, but how could the country have 20 teams of Mayo or Tyrone’s level?? What’s stopping them right now from being of that level?

And this 4 teams thing you are flouting makes no sense. Here’s the breakdown again...

Kildare Meath Westmeath 505. Pairc tailteann
Mayo Galway. 389 Salt hill
Cork Kerry 689.5. Pairc hi caoimh
Clare limerick Tipperary Waterford 590 Thurles
Wexford Kilkenny Laois Carlow Wicklow 532.5 Nowlan
Offaly longford roscommon Leitrim cavan 291 Hyde
Dublin North. Croke 700
Dublin South no stadium 700
Louth Armagh Tyrone Monaghan 543. Clones
Antrim Derry down 1.4. Casement
Donegal Sligo Fermanagh 285 Enniskillen

Kerry cork would be hard beaten but if that is the territory of the country producing the best footballers then they deserve to be the ones taking the silverwear.

Via good planning, infrastructure and well placed funding.
There is no reason why most teams in the first 2 divisions couldnt be at or close to that level with some input from the gaa. Add in 2 dublin teams and the few amalgamations and with a couple of years development, 20 teams of a similar level is a very real possibilty.

Beats 4 teams out of the 6 odd million people on the island anyway. We had that before by the way, it was called the railway cup...

dunnerc

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Via good planning, infrastructure and well placed funding.
There is no reason why most teams in the first 2 divisions couldnt be at or close to that level with some input from the gaa. Add in 2 dublin teams and the few amalgamations and with a couple of years development, 20 teams of a similar level is a very real possibilty.

Beats 4 teams out of the 6 odd million people on the island anyway. We had that before by the way, it was called the railway cup...

What 2 Dublin teams ? There is only 1 Dublin team :rolleyes:

Dots1982

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Via good planning, infrastructure and well placed funding.
There is no reason why most teams in the first 2 divisions couldnt be at or close to that level with some input from the gaa. Add in 2 dublin teams and the few amalgamations and with a couple of years development, 20 teams of a similar level is a very real possibilty.

Beats 4 teams out of the 6 odd million people on the island anyway. We had that before by the way, it was called the railway cup...

I’ve gave you my list. Show me the 20 teams that can compete with each other through splits and amalgamations?

MayoAreMagic

dunnerc wrote: »

The whole thread is Hogwash lol.....

Why are you on it then?

dunnerc

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Why are you on it then?

To reply to your absolute hogwash

tritium

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

To what end?
Making 3 teams that match dublin?
Straight semi final and final so. Great development for the gaa....

Wouldn’t be vastly fewer games than some teams have taken to win an AI in the past so not really sure what your point is, especially when you see one of those teams as the”template” apparently

seligehgit

Mod Warning

Please desist from the one liners and revert to constructive debate.

Higgins5473

In fairness ‘constructive debate’ is not hundreds of pages of one repetitive loop of so called ‘financial doping, huge population advantage, Dublin playing at home always and split Dublin in two’. There really is very little else in it. The thread is called ‘dominance of Dublin’...not a whisper of discussion on the talent this once in a generation group of players have, just the same repetitive bitterness on a loop.

Dots1982

Once in a lifetime generations are one thing.

An unbeatable team with 14 out of 15 provincial titles and no sign of the gap narrowing are quite another.

MayoAreMagic

Higgins5473 wrote: »

In fairness ‘constructive debate’ is not hundreds of pages of one repetitive loop of so called ‘financial doping, huge population advantage, Dublin playing at home always and split Dublin in two’. There really is very little else in it. The thread is called ‘dominance of Dublin’...not a whisper of discussion on the talent this once in a generation group of players have, just the same repetitive bitterness on a loop.

But they arent one generation. They have changed, pronably more than any top team in fact, over the last decade. They have also improved over time. The golden generation thing is clearly not accurate.

Who are the golden generation players? Brogan? Hasnt been a starter for years. Mcmahon? Has been in and out of the team. As has osullivan, as has mccauley. Andrews dropped. Mcmanaman rarely seen. In fact the two older lads that have been consistantly palyed are mccarthy and cluxton, and cluxton isnt from that generation either... Its a completely different team

dunnerc

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But they arent one generation. They have changed, pronably more than any top team in fact, over the last decade. They have also improved over time. The golden generation thing is clearly not accurate.

Who are the golden generation players? Brogan? Hasnt been a starter for years. Mcmahon? Has been in and out of the team. As has osullivan, as has mccauley. Andrews dropped. Mcmanaman rarely seen. In fact the two older lads that have been consistantly palyed are mccarthy and cluxton, and cluxton isnt from that generation either... Its a completely different team

You cherry picked Higgins5473 post to suit your agenda "as per usual "
Any comment on the main part of the post ?

In fairness ‘constructive debate’ is not hundreds of pages of one repetitive loop of so called ‘financial doping, huge population advantage, Dublin playing at home always and split Dublin in two’. There really is very little else in it. The thread is called ‘dominance of Dublin’

Dyr

Dots1982 wrote: »

Once in a lifetime generations are one thing.

An unbeatable team with 14 out of 15 provincial titles and no sign of the gap narrowing are quite another.

Kerry won 18 provinicial titles in 23 years. Not a peep from ye.

Cork won the others. Not a peep from ye.

Kilkenny won 16 in 18 years, not a peep from ye

Kilenny won 11 All Irelands in 15 years. Not a peep from ye.

Wonder what that is?

Apparently the sky is falling now and something needs to be done for the game and the sake of the weaker counties. Go on outta that.

MayoAreMagic

Dots1982 wrote: »

I’ve gave you my list. Show me the 20 teams that can compete with each other through splits and amalgamations?

Dublin north
Dublin south
Kildare
Meath
Kerry
Cork
Tyrone
Donegal
Down
Monaghan
Mayo
Galway
Roscommon
Derry
Armagh

18 teams left to come up with 5 combined sides capable of competing. The amalgamations would require thought, discussion and investigation. But id imagine clare-limerick would be a strong team. Laois-offaly, sligo-leitrim, longford-westmeath etc.
Id imagine you could probably get more than 20.

People might take issue with say derry for example, but id argue they have the tools to compete and have competed quite recently. A bit of gaa input and a helping hand and they could easily be among the elite again.

Dots1982

Bambi wrote: »

Kerry won 18 provinicial titles in 23 years. Not a peep from ye.

Cork won the others. Not a peep from ye.

Kilkenny won 16 in 18 years, not a peep from ye

Kilenny won 11 All Irelands in 15 years. Not a peep from ye.

Wonder what that is?

Apparently the sky is falling now and something needs to be done for the game and the sake of the weaker counties. Go on outta that.

Probably cause the attendances in those provinces always used to be pretty low.

Leinster football used to be a huge crowd puller. Now it’s a zombie championship and looks like it’ll be that way for 10 more years.

If you aren’t aware that is a big problem then truth is you probably just don’t care about anything GAA related outside of what’s good for Dublin.

MayoAreMagic

dunnerc wrote: »

You cherry picked Higgins5473 post to suit your agenda "as per usual "
Any comment on the main part of the post ?

In fairness ‘constructive debate’ is not hundreds of pages of one repetitive loop of so called ‘financial doping, huge population advantage, Dublin playing at home always and split Dublin in two’. There really is very little else in it. The thread is called ‘dominance of Dublin’

Well in fairness you dont respond to pretty much anything you are pushed on, so why should I take direction from you?

However, since I dont stoop to that kind of level, I will respond to it. The point has been made re dublin. Nobody has countered it successfully. This is because it cant be done, as logically, dublin being split makes total sense and Dublin remaining the same works on no level.
Some people get a bit sore about that so they act out and try to derail or spoil the thread. Some wade in and need things financial doping explained to them. I dont think threads going on for several pages is all that uncommon tbh.
Guys like gaffer91 have offered some excellent insight into the subject, so I dont believe that there is no insight here. Maybe just too many folk with skin in the game reading it

Dyr

Dots1982 wrote: »

Probably cause the attendances in those provinces always used to be pretty low.

Leinster football used to be a huge crowd puller. Now it’s a zombie championship and looks like it’ll be that way for 10 more years.

.

So Munster being a non event since Moses was in short trouses is not a big problem but Leinster being a non event is a national emergency. Have a word with Meath if it upsets you that much, unless it's Dublins fault that they've been journeymen for a decade.

Dots1982 wrote: »

If you aren’t aware that is a big problem then truth is you probably just don’t care about anything GAA related outside of what’s good for Dublin.

Actually I'd go to more Hurling Intercounty games than Football.

Truth is you probably just don’t care about anything GAA related outside of what’s bad for Dublin.

Dots1982

Sure I’m the only one proposing a solution that doesn’t clearly benefit their own county.

The other solutions..

Dubs essentially want to join up Leitrim with Longford which will achieve nothing

The rest just want to split Dublin.

GreenandRed

Dots1982 wrote: »

Sure I’m the only one proposing a solution that doesn’t clearly benefit their own county.

The other solutions..

Dubs essentially want to join up Leitrim with Longford which will achieve nothing

The rest just want to split Dublin.

The solution is to strive to get to Dublin's level. Splitting Dublin in two would mean we'd have two very good Dublin teams for some supporters to complain about and put the blame on for their county's apathy.

Dots1982

GreenandRed wrote: »

The solution is to strive to get to Dublin's level. Splitting Dublin in two would mean we'd have two very good Dublin teams for some supporters to complain about and put the blame on for their county's apathy.

Yes, the solution for the next ten years is to wait and see. If 4 or 5 teams can get to Dublin’s level then great. If it stays at its current level or becomes even more of a farce than it is time to re-evaluate.

dunnerc

Dots1982 wrote: »

Yes, the solution for the next ten years is to wait and see. If 4 or 5 teams can get to Dublin’s level then great. If it stays at its current level or becomes even more of a farce than it is time to re-evaluate.

Yes agreed that makes sense , I would just like to add that I think Dublins Dominance "outside of Leinster" has been exaggerated . Mayo should have had one possibly 2 ALL Irelands and but for bad luck , 2 ridiculous flukey goals springs to mind " and a Mayo player retaliating and getting sent off they probably would have , Kerry also gave Dublin a huge scare in the 2019 drawn game and were within minutes from beating them. I really don't think the current level will be maintained , don't even think we will have to give it 10 years , lets wait and see .

MayoAreMagic

Dots1982 wrote: »

Sure I’m the only one proposing a solution that doesn’t clearly benefit their own county.

The other solutions..

Dubs essentially want to join up Leitrim with Longford which will achieve nothing

The rest just want to split Dublin.

I want to do the best of both.
As for just benefitting mayo, am I really? Mayo will be in transition for a while by the looks of things. No team has won the all ireland with a population as low as mayos in recent times. The two dublin teams and several of the amagamations I have suggested would be far better situated as regards population and facilities, to do better than my own county. So no, I dont think that claim can be reasonably made about what I have said.
I firmly believe that what I have suggested would benefit the game. Similarly, I dont believe that joining every other county in the entire country up simply to match dublin, as you have suggested, would be a good move for anyone. Geographic concerns come into it, optimum levels of the game also, as well as the possibility of the thing actually beig a success in reality.
Your overriding criteria seems to be, I dont want to appear biased. My criteria is, make gaeilc football the best it can be. If someone tries to claim im just being biased, then they cant see the wood from the trees, but that is their problem. Im still going to suggest the best solution, and I have (or am at least close to it) I believe.

MayoAreMagic

GreenandRed wrote: »

The solution is to strive to get to Dublin's level. Splitting Dublin in two would mean we'd have two very good Dublin teams for some supporters to complain about and put the blame on for their county's apathy.

But at least the 2 very good Dublin teams could potentially be matched by other teams from around the country. True there would be all dublin all ireland finals, but so what? Best of luck to them if they can do it. They would be 2 seperate teams the same as everyone else.
Can other teams actually match dublin? For all their well meant striving. Is it reasonable to expect it to actuallycome to pass?
Like we can all strive to be lotto winners. But it doesnt take a genius to work out that it is the actual odds of that happening and nothing else that is going to dictate how many actually manage it, and straight away, we know that it is a very miniscule chance. Otherwise people are just living in a fantasyland.

MayoAreMagic

Dots1982 wrote: »

Yes, the solution for the next ten years is to wait and see. If 4 or 5 teams can get to Dublin’s level then great. If it stays at its current level or becomes even more of a farce than it is time to re-evaluate.

And if that does happen? Say Dublin win 8 of the next 10 all irelands. What would your reevaluation be?

MayoAreMagic

dunnerc wrote: »

Yes agreed that makes sense , I would just like to add that I think Dublins Dominance "outside of Leinster" has been exaggerated . Mayo should have had one possibly 2 ALL Irelands and but for bad luck , 2 ridiculous flukey goals springs to mind " and a Mayo player retaliating and getting sent off they probably would have , Kerry also gave Dublin a huge scare in the 2019 drawn game and were within minutes from beating them. I really don't think the current level will be maintained , don't even think we will have to give it 10 years , lets wait and see .

What was flukey about the goals? Guys getting forced back right onto their goal line and the ball touching them before going in, isnt really a fluke. It is deliberate pressure.

But the mayo player retaliated - he wasnt hard done by. Personally i think the ref would have left small off with a last warning anyway and then the two reds was a handy cop out for him.

Kerry didnt beat them though, because dublin were better.

In reality, even if they had lost one of those games, an odd loss doesnt change anything. That is equivalent to saying that when one of the poorer teams in the spl catch celtic on the hop, that means that all the teams are as good as each other. Its nonsense.

The current level has improved on the 'golden generation', many of whom have struggled to get a game in the last few years. Your propaganda is falling flat in the face of reality.

dunnerc

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

What was flukey about the goals? Guys getting forced back right onto their goal line and the ball touching them before going in, isnt really a fluke. It is deliberate pressure.

But the mayo player retaliated - he wasnt hard done by. Personally i think the ref would have left small off with a last warning anyway and then the two reds was a handy cop out for him.

Kerry didnt beat them though, because dublin were better.

In reality, even if they had lost one of those games, an odd loss doesnt change anything. That is equivalent to saying that when one of the poorer teams in the spl catch celtic on the hop, that means that all the teams are as good as each other. Its nonsense.

The current level has improved on the 'golden generation', many of whom have struggled to get a game in the last few years. Your propaganda is falling flat in the face of reality.

I don't believe the current level has improved , you saying what you believe the ref would have done is your opinion it doesn't make it true ,
In my opinion the goals were flukey ,You saying Dublin were better than Kerry is again your opinion , I believe Kerry were the better team in the drawn match and just lacked a bit of experience to get over the line . Dublin scrapped over the line against Mayo twice , Kerry put them to the pin of there collar with a very young team proves Dublin are beatable and will be beaten. Your agenda is nothing but bitter jealous anti Dublin nonsense.

MayoAreMagic

dunnerc wrote: »

I don't believe the current level has improved , you saying what you believe the ref would have done is your opinion it doesn't make it true ,
In my opinion the goals were flukey ,You saying Dublin were better than Kerry is again your opinion , I believe Kerry were the better team in the drawn match and just lacked a bit of experience to get over the line . Dublin scrapped over the line against Mayo twice , Kerry put them to the pin of there collar with a very young team proves Dublin are beatable and will be beaten. Your agenda is nothing but bitter jealous anti Dublin nonsense.

But they werent beaten. How can it prove they can be beaten, when they werent?
Even if at some stage they perform poorly on the day and do lose a game, like against donegal, so what? They will still come back and beat all round them afterwards. You are trying to say that if they ever do lose a game, the whole thing is justified. This logic is blatently disingenuous.

dunnerc

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But they werent beaten. How can it prove they can be beaten, when they werent?
Even if at some stage they perform poorly on the day and do lose a game, like against donegal, so what? They will still come back and beat all round them afterwards. You are trying to say that if they ever do lose a game, the whole thing is justified. This logic is blatently disingenuous.

Nope that's not what im saying , that's what your saying
Im saying they will lose , not if they lose
Your talking rubbish and you know it
Dublin could have/probably should have lost 1/2 All Irelands to Mayo
They were there for the taking in the drawn game against Kerry
They are very beatable , you are just to bitter to open your eyes