The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

MayoAreMagic

omega man wrote: »

Not that it’ll ever happen but how would splitting Dublin level the playing field between say Kerry and Carlow for example?

So basically you are suggesting that it has to fix every ill in the sport in one go, before it can be considered?
Nonsense.
It would fix the massive difference between dublin and the majority of counties. That is enough to suggest that it is a move worth taking.

riemann

I don't think Dublin should be split, that would only further the damage years of continued financial doping has done to Gaelic Football.

I don't think there is a quick fix, to be honest I don't really care. I haven't passed much heed on it over the last couple of years in any event.

Plenty of other competitive sports to get involved in, that haven't been ruined by money.

omega man

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

So basically you are suggesting that it has to fix every ill in the sport in one go, before it can be considered?
Nonsense.
It would fix the massive difference between dublin and the majority of counties. That is enough to suggest that it is a move worth taking.

You’re just taking Dublin out so Kerry and maybe a Tyrone, Cork, Galway or even Mayo can win it. Let’s be honest that’s the motive here.

omega man

riemann wrote: »

I don't think Dublin should be split, that would only further the damage years of continued financial doping has done to Gaelic Football.

I don't think there is a quick fix, to be honest I don't really care. I haven't passed much heed on it over the last couple of years in any event.

Plenty of other competitive sports to get involved in, that haven't been ruined by money.

We’ve just had two massively competitive finals with some of the best football played in Croke Park and you think it’s ruined! Tell me when finals produced better football in close games? In the 00s It was usually Kerry winning handy with the exception of the great Tyrone team. What about Dublin’s epic battles with Mayo too. When was it better, more competitive?

MayoAreMagic

odyssey06 wrote: »

Amazing. In the same post you have demonstrated you don't understand the meaning of the words 'exponential' or 'financial doping'. I don't think you could be more wrong if you tried. It doesn't stand up to a moment's scrutiny.

Where did Mayo's 900,000 in fund raising come from in one single year?
Where did Kerry's €7 million euros centre of excellence come from?

When language is twisted and abused like this, it breaks whatever argument it is deployed to support.

Level of financial doping by Dublin = not one single cent.

Any talk of splitting Dublin is the last resort of a defeatist mentality. It's a ridiculous concept that would be laughed at in every other sport.

No it stands up fully to scrutiny, as had been explained in depth. You simply saying it isnt the case doesnt change that. Say it again if you like, it still doesnt change it. Financial doping is an apt description

As for exponential - that is a increasingly rapid increase. This is exactly what the dublin funds, in conparison to to funds of everyone else, is like. It is a gap of 17 odd million at present. Next year it will be 19-20 odd. Now maybe maths isnt a strongpoint, but it should be clear to see that that is in fact a rapidly increasing gap. How are those clarks for a gobstopper?

Mayos money came from fundraising - something all counties can do. Can all counties get a 17 million handout from the gaa and 5 million from the government? No? Point proven.

As for defeatist mentaility, Id be curious as to what kind of mentality you would label a county that turn their back on the game unless they are winning, and need 17 million extra and an intervention from a taoiseach, on top of 12 times the average population, to do it?
To try to suggest that people simply looking for fair treatment have a defeatist mentality is actually a bit sad. If you had any bit of pride at all you would have handed back every penny and gone out and competed on an equal footing with your competitors. Where were these great volunteers then?

MayoAreMagic

omega man wrote: »

You’re just taking Dublin out so Kerry and maybe a Tyrone, Cork, Galway or even Mayo can win it. Let’s be honest that’s the motive here.

The motive is for the game to be fair. At that point let the best team win. Be it kerry, tyrone, dublin north, whoever. But if people think that the way to drive the thing is basically like the SPL with celtic and the joke that has become, they are miles off. Nobody thinks that is a good direction for the sport to go in. The ones that are trying to argue it is are either dubs who dont give a ****e as long as they are winning, or people who are a bit clueless on the topic. Honest enough for you?

Happyilylost

omega man wrote:

We’ve just had two massively competitive finals with some of the best football played in Croke Park and you think it’s ruined! Tell me when finals produced better football in close games? In the 00s It was usually Kerry winning handy with the exception of the great Tyrone team. What about Dublin’s epic battles with Mayo too. When was it better, more competitive?

2001 was the best year football ever was and ever will be. Until the maroon tide rises again

#GalwayforSam2020

MayoAreMagic

omega man wrote: »

We’ve just had two massively competitive finals with some of the best football played in Croke Park and you think it’s ruined! Tell me when finals produced better football in close games? In the 00s It was usually Kerry winning handy with the exception of the great Tyrone team. What about Dublin’s epic battles with Mayo too. When was it better, more competitive?

The 1990s is considered as a highpoint of the all ireland series. It is no coincidence that there was a raft of different winners and teams competing in finals in that decade also...
Do the maths - the more teams we can get to the elite level the better. The worst part is, if we considered dublin as 2 teams, as good as mayo and galway, then at present we woud have as contenders, kerry, both dublin teams, mayo, tyrone, donegal, galway and a few years ago monaghan. It is then you realise that if the gaa had the guts to do the right thing, we would be living in a great time for football.

odyssey06

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

No it stands up fully to scrutiny, as had been explained in depth. You simply saying it isnt the case doesnt change that. Say it again if you like, it still doesnt change it. Financial doping is an apt description
As for exponential - that is a increasingly rapid increase. This is exactly what the dublin funds, in conparison to to funds of everyone else, is like. It is a gap of 17 odd million at present. Next year it will be 19-20 odd. Now maybe maths isnt a strongpoint, but it should be clear to see that that is in fact a rapidly increasing gap. How are those clarks for a gobstopper?
Mayos money came from fundraising - something all counties can do. Can all counties get a 17 million handout from the gaa and 5 million from the government? No? Point proven.
As for defeatist mentaility, Id be curious as to what kind of mentality you would label a county that turn their back on the game unless they are winning, and need 17 million extra and an intervention from a taoiseach, on top of 12 times the average population, to do it?
To try to suggest that people simply looking for fair treatment have a defeatist mentality is pathetic. If you had any bit of pride at all you would have handed back every penny and gone out and competed on an equal footing with your competitors. Where were these great volunteers then?

Yeah that's not what exponential means.
Or what financial doping means. You twist and abuse the language because you have no other case to be made. Just repetition of a jargon phrase which has been stripped of all meaning in relation to GAA.

Splitting another county has nothing to do with fair treatment, it is a defeatist attitude that has nothing to do with fairness. Will Mayo split itself in five to give Leitrim, out of fairness, an equal chance to compete so that it can win more than 2 Connacht titles to Mayo's 48?
So the clear and obvious and transparent agenda to all talk of splitting Dublin has nothing to do with fairness in the GAA.

If Uruguay talked about splitting Brazil they would be laughed at and ridiculed as a bunch of useless losers and that is the proper response to all talk of splitting Dublin.

And in practice, Dublin is already split, unlike Mayo or Kilkenny they actually do compete at the top level in both codes. The funding received isn't all going to one sport or the other, or even to just the men's game.
Do you think that Irish Rugby or the FAI would just abandon their sport in the capital city? No, which is why GAA in the capital needs special attention.

MayoAreMagic

odyssey06 wrote: »

Yeah that's not what exponential means.
Or what financial doping means. You twist and abuse the language because you have no other case to be made. Just repetition of a jargon phrase which has been stripped of all meaning in relation to GAA.

Splitting another county has nothing to do with fair treatment, it is a defeatist attitude that has nothing to do with fairness. Will Mayo split itself in five to give Leitrim, out of fairness, an equal chance to compete so that it can win more than 2 Connacht titles to Mayo's 48?
So the clear and obvious and transparent agenda to all talk of splitting Dublin has nothing to do with fairness in the GAA.

If Uruguay talked about splitting Brazil they would be laughed at and ridiculed as a bunch of useless losers and that is the proper response to all talk of splitting Dublin.

And in practice, Dublin is already split, unlike Mayo or Kilkenny they actually do compete at the top level in both codes. The funding received isn't all going to one sport or the other, or even to just the men's game.
Do you think that Irish Rugby or the FAI would just abandon their sport in the capital city? No, which is why GAA in the capital needs special attention.

Exponential- adjective - (of an increase) becoming more and more rapid.

Oxford definition there. What part of that dont you understand?

From there you just repeat what has already been disproven, ad nauseum. It is just, flat-earther behaviour, equivalent of covering your ears and repeating yourself at loud volume.
Throw in a few references to my county for good measure, like that isnt old hat.
If you want special attention and argue that it is all about games promotion, then you should be happy to compete in the railway cup rather than for sam maguire, right?


Quick, wheel out the exponential spiel again!

Bonniedog

riemann wrote: »

I don't think Dublin should be split, that would only further the damage years of continued financial doping has done to Gaelic Football.

I don't think there is a quick fix, to be honest I don't really care. I haven't passed much heed on it over the last couple of years in any event.

Plenty of other competitive sports to get involved in, that haven't been ruined by money.

Your interest in PED testing in GAA did not last long I see

BarryD2

omega man wrote: »

We’ve just had two massively competitive finals with some of the best football played in Croke Park and you think it’s ruined! Tell me when finals produced better football in close games?

One swallow never made a summer..

riemann

Bonniedog wrote: »

Your interest in PED testing in GAA did not last long I see

Still very interested.

Any information to share?

Bonniedog

I did. On the thread you started. Possibly not the response you were hoping for. You can get the reports on Sports council site. Or you could last time I checked.

omega man

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

The motive is for the game to be fair. At that point let the best team win. Be it kerry, tyrone, dublin north, whoever. But if people think that the way to drive the thing is basically like the SPL with celtic and the joke that has become, they are miles off. Nobody thinks that is a good direction for the sport to go in. The ones that are trying to argue it is are either dubs who dont give a ****e as long as they are winning, or people who are a bit clueless on the topic. Honest enough for you?

Why is it not fair now? Is it because we’ve been winning with one if not the best ever team of naturally talented footballers ever and you don’t like that?

Population and Croke Park were never mentioned until post 2011 when people stopped laughing at us and you’re still not laughing now.

As for the funding, well it’s allowed us to promote a dying GAA here and identify talent that might never have played OUR games only for the vision and support of the DCB and the GAA.

The more of the hate and begrudgery I read here the more pleasure I take from this amazing team and manager. It’s literally gotten Into your heads hasn’t it.

You’re going to have to do more than cry into your pints if you want to compete with us but I’m sure even right now the Kerry lads are plotting as they don’t give a sh1te about anything except matching us on the field over the coming years. They’ll want to beat the Dubs, not Fingal or some abomination like that.

odyssey06

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Exponential- adjective - (of an increase) becoming more and more rapid.
Oxford definition there. What part of that dont you understand?
From there you just repeat what has already been disproven, ad nauseum. It is just, flat-earther behaviour, equivalent of covering your ears and repeating yourself at loud volume.
Throw in a few references to my county for good measure, like that isnt old hat.
If you want special attention and argue that it is all about games promotion, then you should be happy to compete in the railway cup rather than for sam maguire, right?
Quick, wheel out the exponential spiel again!

Except that Oxford definition does not describe the level of funding year on year to Dublin, where, for example, they received less funding in the year 2018 than they received in 2011. Ergo not exponential.

It's not old hat to point out the complete hyporcrisy of a county with 5 times population advantage of one of its rivals, seriously talking about splitting one of its rivals because it has a population advantage. To mention it in the context of fairness! It has nothing to do with fairness.

Railway Cup would be a strange place to promote anything, seeing as it doesn't exist anymore...

I keep repeating the challenge because nobody, after 3000+ posts, has shown, let alone proven, any financial doping on the part of, or unfairness in the advantages, of Dublin. Population differences do not equate to unfairness. Games development funding through the official sporting bodies of the country is not financial doping. It's that simple.

Happyilylost

omega man wrote:

Population and Croke Park were never mentioned until post 2011 when people stopped laughing at us but you’re not laughing now.

Croke Park wasn't mentioned till post 2011 because that is when the Spring Series began and without consultation the Gaa moved Dublin into Croke Park for home league games. The rise in support at the time for Dublin led to an increase of Leinster Championship games also been played in Croke Park to where the status quo became that Dublin played the majority of games in our National Stadium.

tritium

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Kerry were fundraising the money themselves. Every county can fundraise. They werent getting deliberate handouts from the governing body. Dublin were, and continue to do so. That is why it is referred to, correctly, as financial doping.

Re the 'wanton neglect of dublins fanbase', you
really mean because Dublin fans didnt bother going to the games... In fairness, that is nobody elses fault. It shouldnt take the financial doping of an entire sport just to get them to show a bit of interest. The other side of that is however, that the last time dublin won an all Ireland properly was in 1995.

Splitting dublin is very obviously what the next move of the gaa should be. Any neutral observer would say so in an instant. In truth it should be done swiftly by the administration and no more fuss made over it. Its the right move, so make it, then ket all the whinging pass you by and lay no heed.

That’ awkward moment when someone hasn’t read the thread and manages to post something that land both feet firmly in their mouth......


We’ve already worked through the sources of funding for the Kerry COE- hint: it wasn’t the senior team selling lottery tickets outside the Sunday mass

Bonniedog

Happyilylost wrote: »

Croke Park wasn't mentioned till post 2011 because that is when the Spring Series began and without consultation the Gaa moved Dublin into Croke Park for home league games. The rise in support at the time for Dublin led to an increase of Leinster Championship games also been played in Croke Park to where the status quo became that Dublin played the majority of games in our National Stadium.

Dublin playing league games in Parnell was the exception not the rule. Footballers played all home league games there until the re-development era.

You don't even know what you are talking about. And Dublin league attendances fell after 2011, not increased.

You are poorly equipped to be arguing with people who know what they are talking about my friend.

MayoAreMagic

odyssey06 wrote: »

Except that Oxford definition does not describe the level of funding year on year to Dublin, where, for example, they received less funding in the year 2018 than they received in 2011. Ergo not exponential.

It's not old hat to point out the complete hyporcrisy of a county with 5 times population advantage of one of its rivals, seriously talking about splitting one of its rivals because it has a population advantage. To mention it in the context of fairness! It has nothing to do with fairness.

Railway Cup would be a strange place to promote anything, seeing as it doesn't exist anymore...

I keep repeating the challenge because nobody, after 3000+ posts, has shown, let alone proven, any financial doping on the part of, or unfairness in the advantages, of Dublin. Population differences do not equate to unfairness. Games development funding through the official sporting bodies of the country is not financial doping. It's that simple.

The gap between the level of funds available to dublin and the rest has increased by more and more year on year - literally by millions. You seem to want to ignore their ever increasing sponsorship deals for some reason. Maybe because you have gone down the road of doubting the meaning of a word and now your pride wont let you go back. Ironically enough if you had half the pride in your county as a gaa man, you would be rejecting the handout and trying to beat the rest fair and square...

So what you are saying is, because mayo have 5 times the population of someone, the fact that dublin have 60 times their population is null and void? Do you even believe that yourself? Again, this bs about one fix having to sort all the ills of the gaa is wheeled out. Its nonsense.

We would reinstate the railway cup if you wanted to compete. You see we are fair like that, unlike yourself.

If you believe the obvious financial doping hasnt had an effect, then why not hand it all back? If that is the case then it must annoy you that is inconsequential sidepoint would take away from your achievements so much so that your 5 in a row has been labelled the financial 5? So you should be all for handing it back, right?

Happyilylost

Bonniedog wrote:

Dublin playing league games in Parnell was the exception not the rule. Footballers played all home league games there until the re-development era.

Bonniedog wrote:

You don't even know what you are talking about. And Dublin league attendances fell after 2011, not increased.

Bonniedog wrote:

You are poorly equipped to be arguing with people who know what they are talking about my friend.

Apologies. I bow down to your superior knowledge. How many league games did Dublin play in Croke Park in 2010 the year before the Spring Series?

MayoAreMagic

tritium wrote: »

That’ awkward moment when someone hasn’t read the thread and manages to post something that land both feet firmly in their mouth......


We’ve already worked through the sources of funding for the Kerry COE- hint: it wasn’t the senior team selling lottery tickets outside the Sunday mass

Kerry fundraise for their money. They are well organised and manage to raise a lot of money overseas. They have sponsorship from kerry group, but are by no means the most heavily sponsored county. This is all standard stuff.

MayoAreMagic

omega man wrote: »

Why is it not fair now? Is it because we’ve been winning with one if not the best ever team of naturally talented footballers ever and you don’t like that?

Population and Croke Park were never mentioned until post 2011 when people stopped laughing at us and you’re still not laughing now.

As for the funding, well it’s allowed us to promote a dying GAA here and identify talent that might never have played OUR games only for the vision and support of the DCB and the GAA.

The more of the hate and begrudgery I read here the more pleasure I take from this amazing team and manager. It’s literally gotten Into your heads hasn’t it.

You’re going to have to do more than cry into your pints if you want to compete with us but I’m sure even right now the Kerry lads are plotting as they don’t give a sh1te about anything except matching us on the field over the coming years. They’ll want to beat the Dubs, not Fingal or some abomination like that.

Yes they were mentioned. It was advised that dublin be split before that.

Re funding, why is it so important to promote gaa in dublin as opposed to everywhere else? If it was dying, do what everyone else does and promote it voluntarily.

Finally comes the horse sh*t about doing more than that to compete with us, after taking every handout you can grab - why didnt you take the same attitude instead of coming with a begging bowl?

omega man

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Yes they were mentioned. It was advised that dublin be split before that.

Re funding, why is it so important to promote gaa in dublin as opposed to everywhere else? If it was dying, do what everyone else does and promote it voluntarily.

Finally comes the horse sh*t about doing more than that to compete with us, after taking every handout you can grab - why didnt you take the same attitude instead of coming with a begging bowl?

You know damn well the GAA was and still is nowhere near as imbedded in the culture of Dublin communities unlike the majority of rural areas. The GAA saw this and did something positive about it for the benefit of our national sports. Not that you give a crap.
Your mask is slipping.

MayoAreMagic

omega man wrote: »

You know damn well the GAA was and still is nowhere near as imbedded in the culture of Dublin communities unlike the majority of rural areas. The GAA saw this and did something positive about it for the benefit of our national sports. Not that you give a crap.
Your mask is slipping.

Not really. There are different sports in those communities too. Gaa has done well because of the people that drove it on in those communities - whether they are rural or otherwise doesnt come into it. Why should Dublin's shortcoming in that department be anyone elses fault, or responsibility, other than Dublin's? If they didnt put in the effort relative to other communities then that is their loss, the guys who managed to do it right shouldnt have to suffer for it.
It is akin to a team getting to a final, to be deservedly losing in the closing stages, only for the ref to say, 'ah they need a chance, I will give them a penalty to get in front, and if they miss I will give another one'. What would you have said if kerry had gotten that handed to them in the final?
Also, the financial doping of dublin to milk cash out of their fans and keep the then dublin taoiseach happy, is not a positive thing. It is just a shameful sellout and goes completely against what sport is supposed to be about.

kyote00

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/columnists/the-bottom-line-is-all-about-kerry-947162.html

750k from Kerry group.
8m for the currans centre of excellence (1m from Kerry group)

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They have sponsorship from kerry group, but are by no means the most heavily sponsored county. This is all standard stuff.

kyote00

Where ever you last left it

Chlorine1 wrote: »

Where can I find it?

beggars_bush

tritium wrote: »

That’ awkward moment when someone hasn’t read the thread and manages to post something that land both feet firmly in their mouth......


We’ve already worked through the sources of funding for the Kerry COE- hint: it wasn’t the senior team selling lottery tickets outside the Sunday mass

They went over to the states and fundraised a huge sum

When are Dublin going to stop leeching off the association?

MayoAreMagic

kyote00 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/columnists/the-bottom-line-is-all-about-kerry-947162.html

750k from Kerry group.
8m for the currans centre of excellence (1m from Kerry group)

Kerry Group is their sponsor. Fair play to them. Dublin have AIG, whom they get evem more money from. I dont see your point here. What do you think this proves?

Bonniedog

95 games in Dublin across all grades today.

Just to provide some context. There were hundreds yesterday from juveniles up.

Good luck by the way to our colleague Realt Dearg whose team are about to take the field in the Junior A semi final.