TV licence collection privatised and replaced with device licence fee in 5 years

fritzelly

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

It does provide with safety though. Locking up convicts.

Alas it doesn't enough

riclad

Rte is a public good in that its a public service broadcaster,
it makes current affairs ,arts, sports program,s , news , etc
that may not get large ratings .
it has various digital radio radio stations .
Commercial tv stations look at ratings and ad revenue,
if a program does not attract advertisers it will be cancelled .Most western countrys have at least public service tv service .
i don,t think many arts or drama programs on radio make a profit if you look
at the ratings or ad revenue they receive.
Its sports coverage is as good as most commercial tv rivals .

Sir Oxman

tototoe wrote: »

I pay it. Begrudgingly but I pay it. But this latest effort of a charge is nonsense until there is some real reform of rte. If they really want to promote Irish content, then stop rte spending on imported shows that most people or anyone really can see free to air. Scale it back to one TV channel and 1 radio station and let them at it.

The idea we should provide more money for Dee Forbes and her bloated team of stars in Montrose is utter horse manure without some real reform.

2fm and rte 2 are just not needed in today's landscape. Nor are most of the digital stations.

Cut their cloth to measure, or feic off looking for more cash for the stars

Yep, a national public service is needed but not one that imports shows that commercial channels can pay for or they can be seen on free satellite if desperate.



A public service does not require every overpaid presenter to have their own chatshow



RTE as a public service should be focussed on news, documentaries, current affairs, heritage & arts, national & international sporting events, Irish language.


It most certainly doesn't require RTE2 or multitudes of radio stations - Radio 1 and RnaG are fine to fulfill their public service remit.


That should cut down the fee to an appropriate level.
I am a firm believer in having a non-private, non-subscription national broadcast service but not the moneyhole RTE currently is.

Tony EH

GarIT wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0802/1066568-rte-tv-licence-fee-reform/

The collection of the TV licence fee will be given to the lowest bidder via a public tendering process tendering process. So some private company is going to be noseying around our homes looking in our windows for a TV etc. Then after 5 years the TV licence fee will be replaced with a device licence fee to make sure everyone pays whether they consume RTE content or not.

I didn't think this government would do it, they kicked the can down the road since the early 2010's. I'm disgusted, I'd happily pay for an independent news/investigations media company with some home made content but not the bloat that is RTE.

Between this, the go-ahead/DB privatisation and the Maria Bailey case I will find it very hard to vote for FG within the next ten years.

It's Fine Gael. Did you expect anything less?

Tony EH

whisky_galore wrote: »

What can they do in the event of non payment? Cut you off?

Could be like Irish Water all over again.

And so it should be. People should just not pay this crap in numbers. There's really nothing that can be done. They might cut off your RTE (boo fucking hoo), but are they then going to cut off your internet connection too?

Protest this nonsense by just not paying.

Shefwedfan

riclad wrote: »

Rte is a public good in that its a public service broadcaster,
it makes current affairs ,arts, sports program,s , news , etc
that may not get large ratings .
it has various digital radio radio stations .
Commercial tv stations look at ratings and ad revenue,
if a program does not attract advertisers it will be cancelled .Most western countrys have at least public service tv service .
i don,t think many arts or drama programs on radio make a profit if you look
at the ratings or ad revenue they receive.
Its sports coverage is as good as most commercial tv rivals .

Bit of a ramble which I think you are saying RTÉ is good

I think we should have a public broadcaster, but RTÉ needs a review. It’s bloated and doesn’t actually provide a good service for the money invested....

Always Tired

Let's storm RTE like the lads in America want to do to Area 51. They can't stop us all.

Pa ElGrande

riclad wrote: »

Rte is a public good in that its a public service broadcaster,

RTE can no longer be considered a "public good" (this is an economics term see previous post) since the technology has advanced they can restrict both digital signals (encryption) and internet access. RTEs internet services absolutely fail the "public good" defence since the consumer must establish a TCP/IP connection to their RTE.IE domain and the number of connections that RTE can provide is limited, plus the economics of the process is different. RTE must charge a subscription fee to its consumers who access its services by internet and it does this today for GAA coverage. In short the public good" defence fails due to technological developments over the past few decades as I said previously you could have argued this point up to the 1980s with some validity, but definitely not since RTE have gone digital.

riclad wrote: »

it makes current affairs ,arts, sports program,s , news , etc
that may not get large ratings.

RTEs top programs consistently are news and current affair and sports, not surprising since their tend to generate new content instead of rehashing old content to fill their time on air thus wasting resources and increasing the national carbon footprint and wasting their consumers time broadcasting content that has been seen before.

Arts is a rather nebulous term ( EastEnders and Fair City qualify as art)
They can also charge for the popular content in order to subsidise less popular subjects where the cost of production exceeds the revenue gained.

There is a more fundamental problem with their content, very little of it can be said to be public service as pointed out by a previous commentator on this thread.

Windowsnut wrote: »

There is nothing of any educational value on the network, no open university, no schools programming, no leaving or junior cert revision courses, nothing on career guidance.

Current affairs programming only focuses on economic issues nothing of note on technology, science, research, arts, culture or history.

Old repeats of keeping up appearances, sub-mediocrity and pretentious crap polluting the airwaves and the air given the CO2 emissions of the transmission network!

riclad wrote: »

it has various digital radio radio stations.

Most of those services on the digital channel are provided by other commercial or specialist radio broadcasters already. In light of its current financial mismanagement of resources, the digital radio stations are just filling up slots in a desperate attempt to to capture listeners and contributing to spreading their resources very thinly.

riclad wrote: »

Commercial tv stations look at ratings and ad revenue,
if a program does not attract advertisers it will be cancelled .Most western countrys have at least public service tv service .
i don,t think many arts or drama programs on radio make a profit if you look
at the ratings or ad revenue they receive.
Its sports coverage is as good as most commercial tv rivals .

RTE has a commercial remit. You are going to have to be clear what you mean by public service? Tesco, Lidl and others provide a vital public service on a daily basis, it does not mean they can't be replaced. RTE board of management should really be seriously considering examinership like any other company in its position.

Pa ElGrande

This if from the UK


YouTube and Netflix are now as popular as the top four TV channels as streaming revolution gathers pace

• The number of people signing up to paid services rose from 11.2m to 13.3m
• Traditional viewing still accounts for most TV time but has slightly dropped
• Some 38 per cent of online viewers can imagine not watching traditional TV at all in five years' time

source

One other aspect of internet streaming that is not spoken of in the context of public service broadcasting is Adult entertainment or PR0N (deliberately misspelled). These sites are competing with RTE and other terrestrial services for eyeballs and revenue. PR0N is not a new development , during the 80s with VCR technology it was available widely under the counter from your local video rental store.

Pa ElGrande

Tony EH wrote: »

And so it should be. People should just not pay this crap in numbers. There's really nothing that can be done. They might cut off your RTE (boo fucking hoo), but are they then going to cut off your internet connection too?

Protest this nonsense by just not paying.

It would be better to act now and try head off the changes.

Tony EH

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

It would be better to act now and try head off the changes.

That, more than likely, won't work. Besides, the aiming point is a paltry 1000 names. That's pitifully low.

However, if nobody pays this stupid cash grab, the the govt. will have no recourse but to go back to the previous situation.

Of course, they could just lash it onto an existing tax grab, like their LPT.

Best solution, get FG out.

A Teddy bear

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Who posted 2fm was supposed to support itself? Fair wad on cash going on those idiots

2fm stopped being self-sufficient 9 years ago when Gerry Ryan killed himself with cocaine.

Pa ElGrande

Tony EH wrote: »

That, more than likely, won't work. Besides, the aiming point is a paltry 1000 names. That's pitifully low.

However, if nobody pays this stupid cash grab, the the govt. will have no recourse but to go back to the previous situation.

Of course, they could just lash it onto an existing tax grab, like their LPT.

Best solution, get FG out.

If you are on facebook you could also join TV LICENCE RESISTANCE IRELAND.



What about contacting the TDs and pointing out the alternatives which was what I suggested?


What they are proposing to do is tack the TV tax onto either utility bills (electricity or internet) or property tax and they are intent on removing the opt out option (not having a TV) that currently exists.

I have no problem with RTE charging their consumers a subscription fee and on principle I doubt payers of the existing annual TV tax would either if RTE delivered them a better service. I take serious issue with them charging me for a service where I made a concious decision to not use them or any other domestics terrestrial TV provider and have fully complied with the law. By pursuing a mandatory charge they are disadvantaging me and my family by taxing my labour as I would have to work to earn a multiple of the TV tax to pay them off, this is economic serfdom.


How do you avoid paying when the TV tax if it is attached to your utility bill when you need these utilities in order to conduct your business and earn a living, a broadcast service is not a utility that is necessary to conduct your business unless you are employed by content providers such as RTE and their competition.


On the nature of resistance if the utility provider cuts service to you because you deduct the TV tax from the payments made to them, then the state, its ministers and servants have effectively tied one behind your back with lost income due to loss of access to the utility you cannot fight them.

scamalert

well i had a visit few weeks back from tv license inspector, did fill out form earlier in the year that no tvs in house, as had person move out so was no need more.


tough it didn't go as most tell horror stories online.


Inspector says theres a sat dish on your house :pac: , and instead beating round bush i was just come in and take a look - refused, talked a bit more, then I asked again is he sure he doesn't want to come in, his response was ,he was convinced after first invite and that's it.




as looking whats proposed for next half decade is a bit of a bull***t i get they will implement device tax, but cant see how that should go towards some national tv broadcaster, as whining about not enough cash when clearly people dont use the service and dont enjoy content should be obvious that its legacy service that is not needed anymore.


all this points to most likely larger outrage then there currently is if it ever goes to fruition.

Pa ElGrande

Sir Oxman wrote: »

RTE as a public service should be focussed on news, documentaries, current affairs, heritage & arts, national & international sporting events, Irish language.


It most certainly doesn't require RTE2 or multitudes of radio stations - Radio 1 and RnaG are fine to fulfill their public service remit.


That should cut down the fee to an appropriate level.
I am a firm believer in having a non-private, non-subscription national broadcast service but not the moneyhole RTE currently is.

Why should RTE continue to be an arm of the state? Indeed, given that public service broadcasting is a defunct concept, there should be no state broadcaster or involvement in broadcasting any more than there should be a state newspaper publisher.


Now that both individual programmes and channels can be encrypted and made excludable (the public goods argument) the appropriate, and sustainable, way of funding RTE is via subscription, either on a period basis or pay-per-view or a mixture of both.


Since you object to RTE being fully privatised on a commercial basis, then would it be more appropriate (and certainly more politically feasible) to turn RTE into a subscriber-owned club, rather like the UK National Trust (as proposed by Alan Peacock) in the UK. Anybody would be free to watch any other television or streamed content without paying RTE if they wished. However to watch RTE you would have to be a member or pay for individual programmes. RTE would also be free to exploit its commercial freedoms and use profits to reduce costs to subscribers.

Bigmac1euro

Rolling on 3 years with no license.
Woo, saved myself a few hundred quid.
Also do my own recycling and waste disposal. Saved about 1000-1200 quid here so far.
It’s amazing how much money you can save with a little effort.
Don’t open your front door unless expecting someone. I just get 3 letters a year saying. The resident of such and such address has no tv license. They can’t bring “The Resident” to court surely ?
Anyway I’ll hang on for another 11 months and then my address changes

auspicious

Anyone care to develop an app. that irrevocably blocks RTE programming on owned platforms? An app. that can be presented to say one does not watch s***e RTE.

Pa ElGrande

auspicious wrote: »

Anyone care to develop an app. that irrevocably blocks RTE programming on owned platforms? An app. that can be presented to say one does not watch s***e RTE.

Your internet router can likely be configured to block all access to the RTE.IE domain and there are Apps to do the same on your smartphone.

scamalert

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Your internet router can likely be configured to block all access to the RTE.IE domain and there are Apps to do the same on your smartphone.

As you said it should be actual service provider who should implement encryption or some sort subscription service.


any user can download simple plugin to block certain ips on a browser to blacklist them. thats non issue here.


Its claims that its national and needed service which is BS.

auspicious

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Your internet router can likely be configured to block all access to the RTE.IE domain and there are Apps to do the same on your smartphone.

I was a little tonge in cheek. Even so such app.s will probably be no justification for swerving the charge.
Leaving the country is an option I suppose.

Pa ElGrande

auspicious wrote: »

I was a little tonge in cheek. Even so such app.s will probably be no justification for swerving the charge.
Leaving the country is an option I suppose.

The trend in recent years for countries is to abolish the TV licence and fund the state broadcaster using a grant from general taxation. That's very likely the way this will head since RTEs established radio/TV model will not be viable due to the death and desertion of much of it's audience over the next decade. This also has implications for privately owned stations operating in Ireland that are incorporated into the Anglosphere.

Ten Pin

Anyone care to develop an app. that irrevocably blocks RTE programming

There already is one....it's called the RTE Player...plays ads without a hitch and then...more ads...but no program.

Shefwedfan

Ten Pin wrote: »

There already is one....it's called the RTE Player...plays ads without a hitch and then...more ads...but no program.

I thought was just me....3 ad's and then nothing....refresh and watch 3 ads again.....

Sir Oxman

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Why should RTE continue to be an arm of the state? Indeed, given that public service broadcasting is a defunct concept, there should be no state broadcaster or involvement in broadcasting any more than there should be a state newspaper publisher.


Now that both individual programmes and channels can be encrypted and made excludable (the public goods argument) the appropriate, and sustainable, way of funding RTE is via subscription, either on a period basis or pay-per-view or a mixture of both.


Since you object to RTE being fully privatised on a commercial basis, then would it be more appropriate (and certainly more politically feasible) to turn RTE into a subscriber-owned club, rather like the UK National Trust (as proposed by Alan Peacock) in the UK. Anybody would be free to watch any other television or streamed content without paying RTE if they wished. However to watch RTE you would have to be a member or pay for individual programmes. RTE would also be free to exploit its commercial freedoms and use profits to reduce costs to subscribers.

Ok, abolish RTE then setup a real, independent PSB sans commercialism and Eastenders etc.


PSB is not defunct in my view, but we won't fall out over that.

8-10

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I thought was just me....3 ad's and then nothing....refresh and watch 3 ads again.....

It's infuriating. It also doesn't allow you to turn on the live e.g. RTE1 stream for a 7pm show at 6.59pm. You have to wait until the time passes, the app updates to the new time slot and the show appears, and then watch a bunch of ads before it hopefully plays. Missing the first few mins of the show everytime

The J Stands for Jay

8-10 wrote: »

It's infuriating. It also doesn't allow you to turn on the live e.g. RTE1 stream for a 7pm show at 6.59pm. You have to wait until the time passes, the app updates to the new time slot and the show appears, and then watch a bunch of ads before it hopefully plays. Missing the first few mins of the show everytime

Does the rte player only pay live TV? I always assumed it was an on demand service. Otherwise, what's the point of it? Do they show the same ads as are broadcast?

Shefwedfan

McGaggs wrote: »

Does the rte player only pay live TV? I always assumed it was an on demand service. Otherwise, what's the point of it? Do they show the same ads as are broadcast?

Oh its on demand


They have up to date shows like the OC



That was only cancelled in 2007.....sure nothing better to sit down and watch an American TV series which was cancelled over 10 years ago :p:p

They actually include that in all their TV ad;s :eek:

AustinLostin

There really needs to be some kind of conscientious objector clause to this fee. Besides the news, I would never watch any original programming from RTE - its just not very good. I think a lot of people would happily forgo access to RTE media.

8-10

McGaggs wrote: »

Does the rte player only pay live TV? I always assumed it was an on demand service. Otherwise, what's the point of it? Do they show the same ads as are broadcast?

It does both, and ads are different, in general it's just a blank screen with a logo during ad breaks

thomas anderson.

Tried to Cast the match on Saturday, ended up using another app because it was so useless