290 BHP seemed slower than it should - why?

unkel

Merrick Tinkling Coat wrote: »

You would be doing very well to have the petrol under 1500 as I said Id be close to 2k revs from a very normal start off pulling out of any junction.

Only time I’d be below 1500 would be doing about 70kmh I’m 6th gear.

This is it of course, but you'd be surprised how many people, having got used to a diesel, then drive a petrol in the same way, barely touching the gas pedal and shifting up a gear before 2k rpm. Like the OP. And if you do that in a petrol, it will feel extremely slow. Even when it is a very fast car!

tossy

unkel wrote: »

This is it of course, but you'd be surprised how many people, having got used to a diesel, then drive a petrol in the same way, barely touching the gas pedal and shifting up a gear before 2k rpm. Like the OP. And if you do that in a petrol, it will feel extremely slow. Even when it is a very fast car!

I think you've got to the route of the problem here, i've let a few friends drive manual fast cars i've had in the past and most of them would short shift and be in 6th in no time.

H3llR4iser

Merrick Tinkling Coat wrote: »

Diesel torque or not there is no way a 180bhp diesel feels faster than a 290bhp cupra. The cupra will give a far far bigger wallop and not very much higher if at all in rev range than the BMW.

I have a 150bhp diesel and a 200bhp turbo petrol and the petrol car feels way faster at all times, throws you into the seat far more than the diesel even at low revs and pulls way harder. That’s only 50bhp if a gap the op is talking 110 of a gap.

Sorry, no, the perception can be very different - talking about cars that are not fast per se, my mom's 1.4 TDI Fabia feels much faster than my 1.9 Petrol 159 - 68HP vs 160HP, it's over twice the power. You start the Fabia, floor it, 1st-2nd-3rd gear, it positively feels like making a lot of progress, like there's plenty of push, you look at the speedometer - you haven't even made it to 100kph.



You do the same in my 159 - you can feel a push but it's sedated, calm, comfortable. Feels slow. After a similar time, in 3rd, you look at the speedometer, you're over 140 kph. On the other hand, my dad's 2.0 JTDm 159 feels a hell of a lot faster than mine, but in reality the difference is marginal both on paper and on the clock - 10 HP difference, and they're even the same type of car.



The issue is not in the actual performance - obviously the more powerful car is gonna be faster. It's in the way the brain perceives it; And it's not that every petrol car will "feel" slower than a diesel one - it depends on how they're set up and more importantly driven. The 280HP Giulia Veloce I test drove gave me the impression I was powering a MiG-29 towards takeoff, the Quadrifoglio...Saturn V territory .

unkel wrote: »

This is it of course, but you'd be surprised how many people, having got used to a diesel, then drive a petrol in the same way, barely touching the gas pedal and shifting up a gear before 2k rpm. Like the OP. And if you do that in a petrol, it will feel extremely slow. Even when it is a very fast car!

I think you're on the money here.

DaveyDave

I'd argue the opposite, the amount of people revving the bollocks off diesels either taking off from the lights or just being in the lower gears. People aren't shifting diesels at low revs like an auto box would. The sooner auto boxes become the norm the better.

unkel

DaveyDave wrote: »

The sooner auto boxes become the norm the better.

All EVs are automatic, so that time will come soon

tossy

tossy wrote: »

I think you've got to the route of the problem here, i've let a few friends drive manual fast cars i've had in the past and most of them would short shift and be in 6th in no time.

I suppose it depends on if they are trying to drive it fast or just driving it. During normal day to day driving I’m in 6th from about 70/80kmh in the GTI it’s only if purposely pushing on, needing a faster overtake will I really go up through the revs in every gear etc.

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Sorry, no, the perception can be very different - talking about cars that are not fast per se, my mom's 1.4 TDI Fabia feels much faster than my 1.9 Petrol 159 - 68HP vs 160HP, it's over twice the power. You start the Fabia, floor it, 1st-2nd-3rd gear, it positively feels like making a lot of progress, like there's plenty of push, you look at the speedometer - you haven't even made it to 100kph.
.

There is an element of smaller city vs bigger more refined car there too though more so than just what you are saying. It always feels like you are going faster in a smaller less capable car.

MetzgerMeister

Mike9832 wrote: »

1.5TSI engines peak torque at 1500rpms,

https://m.carsireland.ie/2194075

Some BMW twin turbo petrols make peak torque at 1200rpm

https://www.dreyerreinboldbmwsouth.com/bmw-twinpower-turbo-petrol-engines.htm

The only BMWs that are twin turbo are the M5, M850i and M8. TwinPower Turbo is a single, twin scroll turbo.

Midnight_EG

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

The only BMWs that are twin turbo are the M5, M850i and M8. TwinPower Turbo is a single, twin scroll turbo.

Didn't you own a twin-turbo 335i

MetzgerMeister

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Didn't you own a twin-turbo 335i

I meant the only ones on sale now

Midnight_EG

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

I meant the only ones on sale now

I know, extracting the urine :cool:

Marcusm

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

The only BMWs that are twin turbo are the M5, M850i and M8. TwinPower Turbo is a single, twin scroll turbo.

My old F02 750 Li has twin turbochargers.

MetzgerMeister

Marcusm wrote: »

My old F02 750 Li has twin turbochargers.

See above

JJJJNR

Seat (cupra) are bringing out a 245bhp hybrid in 2020 with 30 mile pure EV. It's called the formentor and also a IMO better looking full EV with 200bhp and 290 range called the el.born.

No details on torque figures as yet.. but things heating up in the EV dept.

unkel

JJJJNR wrote: »

and also a IMO better looking full EV with 200bhp and 290 range called the el.born.

No details on torque figures as yet.. but things heating up in the EV dept.

That's the Seat equivalent of the VW ID.3, the EV replacement of the Golf. Looks like it will be the middle battery model of the 3, so:

RWD, 58kWh usable, range 370km, 204BHP, 350NM, 0-100km/h in sub 6s, 100kW fast charging (so half an hour charging will give you close to 300km motorway range)

Could be my next car