Overwhelmed bride leaving home

LegacyUser

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I've never heard of this. And in an earlier post you suggested that if you had married locally and presumably moved your husband into the house you would have had free childcare, which implies that your parents are capable of taking care of children. And if that's the case then they don't need looking after themselves.

So are you essentially saying that you moved home in your early to mid 20s to live with your parents who currently don't need care, to secure a free house according to this bizarre, non-existent tradition, rather than living an independent life?

And €1800 is barely above minimum wage. That's the bit I'd be most worried about if you have never learned to budget.

Tbf there’s no point for berating me for the past. I’m looking for advice. Also I stated from the beginning I was in a highly unusual situation.
I don’t really see the problem myself with wanting to live in a large home with plenty of room for two families to live and care for one another. Fiancée didn’t have a problem with it.

Also while it may not be a tradition for you who’s to say it doesn’t happen. I can think of a few families and friends in my area where children have moved out and then moved back home to care for their parents with their family and work at home.

Financially I’ll just have to cope with that. I can’t exactly go changing careers aswell. Also I suppose that amount is based on my hours and I can’t increase them in my line of work.

bloodless_coup

I'd say call off the wedding.

The poor fella doesn't know what he's in for. You'll be the financial ruin of him.

wiggle16

doylefe wrote: »

I'd say call off the wedding.

The poor fella doesn't know what he's in for. You'll be the financial ruin of him.

Mod note:

You can give advice without being mean or putting the OP down. If you can't, don't post.

qwerty13

There seems to be an awful lot going on in the back story, which I can’t pretend to understand.

But focusing on the future, there’s a few points:
- do you really need to move away (no need to answer that, just raising it as a question, as it seems to upset you a lot - is there no way you can think of that you could live more locally?)
- you know you need to sort out your finances if you want to be able to get a mortgage. I’m afraid you need to do this fast. You’re going to have to cut a lot of frivolous spending, if not all of it.
- the amount you’re earning seems very low, is there any way you can increase this? You said that you can’t change career or increase your hours. Why not? (Again, no need to answer - I’m just saying that you should consider this. Lots of people change careers / retrain)
- you’re putting yourselves in a very precarious position by living in a house at the whim of a friend. There’s no security there. I think you mentioned doing up the friends house - so I guess that’s in lieu of rent. But does this mean they can or would kick you out if the house is then a better proposition for them to sell or rent out?
- I know you’ve said that you can talk to your partner about all this, but have you both had a proper ‘nuts and bolts’ discussion about how you see your lives working out post wedding? I’m not getting the sense that there’s any plan about finances. You can’t just hope for the best OP, reality is going to hit hard about money. It’s not going to make either of you happy if you’re stressed or fighting about spending and bills.

I think you need to do a LOT more talking to your partner about how you both see your lives going after you get married, and you need to urgently cut out the high end spending. It’s just not sustainable, and is going to impact very heavily on your married life almost immediately.

Postpone for a year. First month, throw 500 into savings, next month 550, etc. And sell some of your luxury stuff. You might find that it's the purchasing of them and not the owning of them that you love.

qwerty13

That’s a really good idea from the last post. I don’t know how the price you’d get compares to what you would paid, but I do know a few people who are very into buying ‘used’ high end handbags. If you have a stock of these, you could sell them to at least get you started on contributing towards your married life

wiggle16

In all honesty there's a lot of things you need to just talk properly and realistically to your fiance about. You don't really have a plan here, and what's coming down the line is not sustainable.

You need to postpone the wedding. I say it like it's nothing, but seriously OP you can't get married yet. You'll be going from living at home with your family to living with your fiance without having had to manage money in any serious way for ten years. That won't be pretty. You know this isn't a case of a couple taking on very traditional roles, or the situation would not be bothering you.

I think you need to learn to make your own mistakes, really. It's the only way you'll address this in the long run. Although you seem to accept you've had a bit of a charmed life and you know how to "adult" in theory, you haven't had to actually exercise responsibility or had to regulate your lifestyle or make difficult decisions for a long time. You know you're not "ready" to move out, you're afraid you'll let people down. OP you're not responsible to anyone but yourself.

I don't think it would do you any harm to have a few things go wrong. I don't mean that unkindly. You need to learn that you can manage independently and that the world will not come crashing down when you don't get things right. You say you are willing to make a new start, but I'm not sure - I believe that a big part of the reason you are feeling so overwhelmed is that you're finding it hard to accept the risks involved in moving out and living independently and you know that you may not have the skills to cope with the change in lifestyle. In reality, you are trying to change as little as possible. You still want to have the disposable income. You're moving into a house rent-and-mortgage free. That's not a new start really.

To put it more bluntly, you know you can't have it both ways. If you move out, your current lifestyle would mean living beyond your means, and having worries and responsibilities you've not had to engage with til now. You're still avoiding the reality of it by moving out under these circumstances.

I'm back living at home at the moment, for different reasons to yourself which I won't get into here, and although my set up is very different to yours I can understand how for a lot of people it is easy to become complacent and lazy when circumstances allow. But as electro~bitch says, you've taken it very easy on yourself for a long time - you need to change that before it catches up with you.

I think counselling is a good idea, especially for whatever is going on in the background here. There may be courses in budgeting and money management in your area also.

rainbowtrout

Sadbride wrote: »

Also while it may not be a tradition for you who’s to say it doesn’t happen. I can think of a few families and friends in my area where children have moved out and then moved back home to care for their parents with their family and work at home.

Financially I’ll just have to cope with that. I can’t exactly go changing careers aswell. Also I suppose that amount is based on my hours and I can’t increase them in my line of work.

I think OP that of all the adults I’ve known that have moved home to look after their parents they have done it out of necessity, because the parent(s) were incapable of looking after themselves, and that doesn’t appear to be the case with you. You appear to have put an independent life on hold in anticipation of that situation - which may never happen.

With regard to work, you don’t have to change career if you don’t want to but based on what you said you earn about €21k a year, and you said you can’t increase the hours due to the nature of the job. As you are earning just over minimum wage, there are loads of jobs out that pay better than what you are currently earning without a major need to upskill if you find that you need a larger income down the line to pay for a mortgage, childcare etc. It’s something to consider.

ILoveYourVibes

How much does your fiance earn? Has that been mentioned?

I hope you have been smart enough to marry a man that can provide for you both if you can't.

I mean if he is earning 200k a year there is no need to worry. It doesn't sound like he is though.

I don't mean to be demeaning to him in anyway or to your choice or relationship with him.

But your choice is your choice. You have to accept the WHOLE of that choice and all its consequences.

Now having said all that. I am sure you will be fine.

If he earns as much as you then you at least have 40k a year. Its not much but its not going to leave you starving.

qwerty13

Joint income of approx 40k in Dublin would mean (if no tax) half of that on rent, and a joint amount of 1800 per month for bills, transport, food plus savings. The situation would be better if outside Dublin, but still no room for any high end purchases. It’s very tight.

If your joint income is only 40k, you both really need to figure out how you can earn a higher salary

ILoveYourVibes

qwerty13 wrote: »

Joint income of approx 40k in Dublin would mean (if no tax) half of that on rent, and a joint amount of 1800 per month for bills, transport, food plus savings. The situation would be better if outside Dublin, but still no room for any high end purchases. It’s very tight.

If your joint income is only 40k, you both really need to figure out how you can earn a higher salary

I don't know about OP. I would find that pressure tough going into a marriage.

New Marriage AND that.

qwerty13

Why not get a second job to try to sort out the financial black hole? Bar work, temping, even babysitting pays a decent amount these days - about a tenner an hour from what I hear, and the expectation with that is that the kids are already in bed

ILoveYourVibes

What does your fiance do and earn?

bloodless_coup

<SNIPPED>

Mod warning:

I already asked you not to post if you can't be decent. I won't ask again.

Wiggle16

ILoveYourVibes

doylefe wrote: »

Yeah feck any personal responsibility, just marry a richer man to solve your short comings.

No. A man who will provide for his family.

A man who loves you will provide.

RhubarbCrumble

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No. A man who will provide for his family.

A man who loves you will provide.

I think I've accidentally stumbled onto mumsnet. Either that or the 1950s.

zapper55

Oh dear ilovevibes, that's very messed up.

heretochat

I won't comment on the "tradition" that youngest siblings mind elderly parents and inherit the house and all with it. I'm the son of two country parents and never heard of that.

Anyway of more concern is the fact OP that you have no experience of (a) budgeting your finances or (b) living with your fiance.

I got engaged last year and shortly after my now fiance moved in with me. I have lived in my own house for a long time and am financially in a good place.

I will not lie and say everything has been 100% since we started living together. That only happens in a dream world. I have had to adapt some behaviours to recognise the fact that I now share a house with someone else. I would always have liked my own space and it took time to accept that i now have to share that space.

But you know what? I worked on my end of things and I have adapted.

My OH is financially independent with her own well paying job and we now share expenses as we see our future in the house we now live in (it'll be our home).

To summarise, I think you are crazy thinking you can move in with someone after getting married, without having any experience of living with them first. You seem to have no sense of responsibility when it comes to money and are you sure this will not be a deal breaker for your future husband?

You are sleepwalking into a situation that could degenerate very quickly...

LegacyUser

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't know about OP. I would find that pressure tough going into a marriage.

New Marriage AND that.

I should add I save €450ish a month on top of this. But I’ve been using those savings for things like holidays, wedding gifts etc when I need it though.

My fiancée earns a varying amount depending on the time of year. We can stay in the house we are moving into for as long as we like as it is family owned. We could stay in it forever and it might come to that.

I wouldn’t want to be too sensitive going by the judgemental replies I’ve been reading. My family have me well versed on what’s ahead and I have to cop on. They give me zero sympathy and rightly so. I just felt I had no one else to talk to about my worries hence I posted here.

I’m not completely dependent on my family I moved home but I still do my own thing if that makes sense. I think I’ll just miss the company most and obviously getting free food was a bonus..! ( And yes I know peoples definition of “dependence” will vary greatly and mine won’t be everyone’s cup of tea..)

wiggle16

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Thanks

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Honey. You thought you'd be staying in the family home forever and then inheriting it. Now that's not happening but you have another place you can stay and it's family owned so it's totally fine, ye might end up there permanently sure...come on.

And you didn't seem to have thought about talking to a mortgage adviser before this thread or to have much idea of many of the practicalities you're shortly going to be dealing with while starting your marriage with a man with whom you've never lived. Your family do not have you well versed for what's ahead.

I'm not trying to lecture you, or be judgemental. You are where you are, you haven't hurt anyone. I hope this works out for you and a bit of forward momentum from your current situation is positive. But you NEED to drop this "it'll probably all be fine" attitude.

baby and crumble

Sadbride wrote: »

I should add I save €450ish a month on top of this. But I’ve been using those savings for things like holidays, wedding gifts etc when I need it though.

Ok now I'm confused. At the start of this thread you pretty much said you use all your money on frivolous things and can't save up.

Now you say you can put away €450 per month and have been using to buy things that most people use their savings for. €450 per month is €5,400 per year. How many weddings and holidays do you go on???

I also don't understand how you say you have a good job but can't take on more hours 'in your line of work'. I genuinely don't understand this, are you working part-time? If so, find the same job in a new company that is full-time. Problem solved.

LegacyUser

baby and crumble wrote: »

Ok now I'm confused. At the start of this thread you pretty much said you use all your money on frivolous things and can't save up.

Now you say you can put away €450 per month and have been using to buy things that most people use their savings for. €450 per month is €5,400 per year. How many weddings and holidays do you go on???

I also don't understand how you say you have a good job but can't take on more hours 'in your line of work'. I genuinely don't understand this, are you working part-time? If so, find the same job in a new company that is full-time. Problem solved.

Two holidays a year, shopping, car insurance, designer purchases and weekends away with friends etc - that’s where I would spend it. My monthly expenditure would also go on clothes, food, nights out, gifts for birthdays, phone bill, diesel etc. I work 22hrs a week that’s the max hours available to me. My weekends I can help out at home but I wouldn’t get paid for that. So yea I’m not v good at saving, even seeing it accumulate and the sense of achievement doesn’t encourage me. I’ve just always loved shopping, good lifestyle etc.

I’ll obviously be cutting back on the spending and holidays. I wouldn’t have time to take on extra work, I’ve tried it before and it’s not worth the tiredness for my day job, and the small money tbh.

beveragelady

Sadbride wrote: »

I should add I save €450ish a month on top of this.

In your first post you say that you haven't saved a penny, so I presume you mean that you're aware you're saving €450 per month by not paying rent etc and you find you spend that 'saving' on luxuries and events. I'm sorry to break it to you but in the real world you're going to have standing outgoings of much, much more than that €450.
If you enter this marriage with so little control of important aspects of your life there are two possible outcomes. Either he's as bad as you are, in which case this will be a disaster. Or, he's in control of things, in which case this is an unequal partnership in which you are the silent and helpless party.

Sadbride

Sadbride wrote: »

I don’t really see the problem myself with wanting to live in a large home with plenty of room for two families to live and care for one another. Fiancée didn’t have a problem with it

Sadbride wrote: »

free childcare and living mortgage free would be extremely beneficial. Unfortunately due to my fiancé’s work situation he cannot move into my home place

Sadbride wrote: »

Living together isn’t possible at the minute anyways as the house isn’t habitable yet. It’s in the process of being renovated. Fiancé is very aware of a big spender and yes we have discussed our financial situation. He has a variable income whereas mine is the more stable hence I do feel under pressure there.

I’m very much in love with my fiancé and I am looking forward to being with him. It’s just the thought of being alone while he is working in the weekends in the evenings etc and me being on my own with nothing to look forward to gets me down sometimes.

OK, I think I've unpicked this (but I could be wrong!) … you and your parents had an understanding that you would move to the family home, take care of them when they were old and inherit the house. You lived your life based on that assumption, possibly also assuming that you would meet and fall in love with someone who would move into the lovely big house with you all, you would have your own family and your parents and your family would live in the house together.

You've fallen in love with someone who works (not sure of the distance but) far enough away from your parent's home that he cannot live in your parents house, although he would have been amenable to that.

Since you have to move away to be with him, another sibling of yours will take over the mind-the-parents-inherit-the-house arrangement. My grand parents had the same plan and when my parents decided they needed a place of their own, they moved out, my Mum's sister moved in and she and her family inherited the house. This was in the 70's but anyway ….

I genuinely don't think that finances are your biggest issue here. I'm even getting the impression that when you move in together you'll have little or nothing to pay in rent so you could take that time to get yourselves organised for a mortgage.

The cause of your sadness is that you're moving away from your family and friends to a situation where you will spend most of your time alone.

Am I ANYwhere near the root of the problem?

You won't be the first couple to get together with different attitudes to spending, you can get through that with planning, counselling and the right attitude.

However, I would be very concerned at the dramatic change in your living situation in that you are well used to being surrounded by people but will now be facing a significant portion of your time at home alone. Does this ring a bell?

woodchuck

I wouldn’t have time to take on extra work, I’ve tried it before and it’s not worth the tiredness for my day job, and the small money tbh.

OP you said you only work 22hrs a week... so you should have plenty of time to take on extra work?? I know you said you help out at home a bit too, but presumably you won't be doing that anymore when you move out. So that should clear up your time to work more hours! And while you might not think the extra money is worth it, you certainly will when you move out into the real world and get a harsh dose of reality.

We can stay in the house we are moving into for as long as we like as it is family owned. We could stay in it forever and it might come to that.

You really need to wake up. You thought you'd be living in your parents house forever and end up inheriting it, but obviously that hasn't panned out. Why on earth would you think you're guarenteed to live in this other house for as long as you want? I'm not saying that offer hasn't been extended to you, but whoever is telling you that could easily change their mind. Anyone I know who has moved into a family owned house has inevitably had to move out (need the money for retirement home, owner dies, family want to sell etc). You have no idea what the future will bring and you would be utterly foolish not to prepare for these uncertainties as best you can.

Obviously you can't change the past, but you really need to change your attitude heading into the future. You come across as very naive.

And for what it's worth, I think it would be a terrible idea to get married right now. You both sound utterly clueless about the real world and it could just end up a total disaster. Why not take things one step at a time? E.g. Start by living together. Then take on more hours at work. All the while working on your spending/saving habits and learning to live together and budget as a couple. THEN if everything is going well, you could consider marriage and possibly even buying your own home. You said yourself, part of the problem is too much change happening at once - but you do have a choice here. You don't HAVE to do everything all at once.

LegacyUser

Leaving aside other issues I think people are making far too big a deal of the fact the op hasn’t lived with her fiancé before. This is still not that unusual certainly in my area/among my friends.

I have 2 friends (in their late 20’s at the time) who married in the last few years (out of my core group of 7 lads) who both lived at home until after they were married having never lived out of home . Their wives were the same also. Only after getting married and finishing building their houses did they move in together.

I’ve another friend outside the core group who lived at home until he got married and only moved in after though his wife was living out of home alright.

It was no big deal to anyone really that they hadn’t lived together in fact it was more seen as being smart and avoiding needless renting though unlike the op all were saving or pumping money into a house build.

beveragelady

Sadbride wrote: »

I work 22hrs a week that’s the max hours available to me.

I'm sure you're aware that people who work full time are working between 35 and 40 hours a week, often more when you include extra paperwork and all the other little things that soak up time. People who work part-time hours, like you, do so because they can afford to live on those hours. People who can't afford to live on those hours get another job either instead of, or as well as, their first job. You're on a low wage, you need to be realistic about your earning potential.

People are focussing a lot on your finances and I'm sure you feel that that's not really the biggest issue. Money can't buy happiness, etc. However, somebody's money-management is often symptomatic of other things. Poor forward planning, poor impulse control, dependence on others, lack of personal responsibility, unrealistic expectations of life. I think maybe that's what posters are seeing in your responses.

I think you need to become independent first and then decide if you want to get married. The days of women instantaneously transforming from a daughter at home to a wife in another man's home with no opportunity to establish themselves as adults with their own identity are thankfully over. You have options here. I have a terrible feeling that your current path is a recipe for a catastrophic relationship that can only damage your confidence and send you back home to mammy and daddy forever.

baby and crumble

Sadbride wrote: »

Two holidays a year, shopping, car insurance, designer purchases and weekends away with friends etc - that’s where I would spend it. My monthly expenditure would also go on clothes, food, nights out, gifts for birthdays, phone bill, diesel etc. I work 22hrs a week that’s the max hours available to me. My weekends I can help out at home but I wouldn’t get paid for that. So yea I’m not v good at saving, even seeing it accumulate and the sense of achievement doesn’t encourage me. I’ve just always loved shopping, good lifestyle etc.

I’ll obviously be cutting back on the spending and holidays. I wouldn’t have time to take on extra work, I’ve tried it before and it’s not worth the tiredness for my day job, and the small money tbh.

To be honest you need to re-evaluate your earning and your spending. I'm not going near your family issues because I don't understand them even after all the posts.

You have no option but to live within your means. That's just life.

I am not a great saver, at all, but I have just had to learn.

Challenge yourself for just one paycheck to buy nothing that you don't have an immediate NEED for. No clothes unless you need something specific that cannot wait, no handbags, nothing. Now, I'm not counting having a life here, so I'm not saying live like a pauper for 30 days, but like, just every time you find yourself about to hand over money for something, ask yourself if you need it. If you don't, then don't buy it. Rash purchases are where so many people fall down.

Being snesible with your money doesn't mean you can't go shopping or have a 'good lifestyle'. You just need to think about whats more important to you. A handbag or a roof over your head.

sullivlo

beveragelady wrote: »

I'm sure you're aware that people who work full time are working between 35 and 40 hours a week, often more when you include extra paperwork and all the other little things that soak up time. People who work part-time hours, like you, do so because they can afford to live on those hours. People who can't afford to live on those hours get another job either instead of, or as well as, their first job. You're on a low wage, you need to be realistic about your earning potential.

People are focussing a lot on your finances and I'm sure you feel that that's not really the biggest issue. Money can't buy happiness, etc. However, somebody's money-management is often symptomatic of other things. Poor forward planning, poor impulse control, dependence on others, lack of personal responsibility, unrealistic expectations of life. I think maybe that's what posters are seeing in your responses.

I think you need to become independent first and then decide if you want to get married. The days of women instantaneously transforming from a daughter at home to a wife in another man's home with no opportunity to establish themselves as adults with their own identity are thankfully over. You have options here. I have a terrible feeling that your current path is a recipe for a catastrophic relationship that can only damage your confidence and send you back home to mammy and daddy forever.

OP could be a teacher/SNA where the maximum or full time hours are 22 hours.