Marvel's Black Widow

Penn

I think it's acceptable that Disney had to split the release between theatrical and D+ given the situation. That's fair and understandable.

However if people's contracts were tied to it being a theatrical release only, then Disney should have made an offer of a part of the Premium Access sales, or a one-off fee in-lieu of the losses from the theatrical release.

Regardless of how much SJ is worth, Disney took actions which meant SJ lost out on a lot of money. Disney also likely made more money given D+ subscriptions and premium access. Fair is fair. They should have re-arranged the deal to offset the changes in not having a full theatrical release. I think Disney are in the wrong here (morally anyway, contractually/legally I have no idea).

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117682695#Comment_117682695

And Disney are worth bajillions and could easily find 50m for SJ in Donald Duck's shorts. There's no reason SJ should be at a substantial loss when it's likely Disney made a fortune in D+ subscriptions and premium access.

Taking the money on both sides out of it I'm taking the view that as I said it gave a lot more people access to some entertainment in this crappy time

A lot more ordinary people were able to access it as a result

As if it's so virtuous to be rooting for the mega-rich individual movie star vs the corporation anyways

kerplun k

I wouldn’t be rushing to the defence of either side of this one just yet. It could be that SJ is fighting this for the wider staff as well. I doubt she needs the money, and by doing this she’s put her whole career in jeopardy. She’s burnt her bridges with Disney, whilst other studies who have suffered badly may also see her as a trouble maker, someone who hasn’t played ball during a time of uncertainty, so this could potentially blow up in her face. But she’s obviously done this for a reason.

I know WB took the hit and paid off their stars when they released their movies on HBOmax, I bet Disney are regretting not doing the same now.

It will be an interesting one to follow that’s for sure.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117682887#Comment_117682887

"It could be that SJ is fighting this for the wider staff as well"

the minor actors nevermind the non-acting plebs don't get revenue-share deals on franchise films

only primary stars in certain movies and certain directors

but in franchise movies like this it will only be primary stars, not the directors

I'd be very confident in stating that SJ was the only actor with a such a deal on this movie.

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117682804#Comment_117682804

No one's disagreeing with you but Disney using that as some sort of moral high ground in order to get out of paying what is owed is low and it could set a dangerous precedent in the future. Neither side needs the money but contracts have to be honoured. Disney get to keep every cent of money made by the premium access, nothing goes to cinemas or distributors, the fact that they're trying to shaft SJ while simultaneously taking the high ground is despicable and it's just greedy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117682955#Comment_117682955

look yes, a contract is a contract etc but I did say taking the money out of it there is more benefit to the average person having streaming available in the pandemic times

" Filming took place from May to October 2019 in Norway, Budapest, Morocco, Pinewood Studios in England, and in Atlanta, Macon, and Rome, Georgia."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Widow_%282021_film%29

"To maximize these receipts, and thereby protect her financial interests, Ms. Johansson extracted a promise from Marvel that the release of the picture would be a 'theatrical release,'" the suit claimed. "As Ms. Johansson, Disney, Marvel, and most everyone else in Hollywood knows, a 'theatrical release' is a release that is exclusive to movie theatres"

Disney (DIS) responded on Thursday saying that "there is no merit whatsoever to this filing"

"Disney has fully complied with Ms. Johansson's contract and furthermore, the release of 'Black Widow' on Disney+ with Premier Access has significantly enhanced her ability to earn additional compensation on top of the $20 million she has received to date," a Disney spokesperson said in a statement."

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/29/media/scarlett-johansson-disney-lawsuit/index.html

As the filming was completed well in advance of the pandemic so would any contracts obviously it would have been very unusual that an exclusive theatrical release was spoken of in the contract as there would have been no concern about a concurrent streaming release at that point. Notice no mention of "exclusive theatrical release" from SJ's lawyers

Disney seem to be intimating that she'd get some money from Disney + as how could they argue that additional compensation could be gained from streaming otherwise as that just wouldn't make any sense saying that

Over to the lawyers......

JP Liz V1

Emma Stone and Emily Blunt latest names to come after Disney, their films did get cinema released too as well as streamed

flazio

For me, it's the timing that seems a bit out.

Scarletts representatives would have known for a while that Disney would have been considering the dual release. Scarlett would have been aware as she was doing the zoom call PR interviews leading up to the dual release. Why didn't she try to stop the release in the first place?

The negotiations should have been done and settled before the movie hit our screens. I'm not saying she doesn't have a point, but it should have been made earlier than this.

Mr Crispy

Having read Disney's scummy response, I'm rooting for SJ.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117662009#Comment_117662009

I watched it, again, this week as my wife wanted to see it.

They completely ballsed it up doing a weekly drop. It is a different beast altogether, binge viewed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685678#Comment_117685678

Probably because a suit is the last step. Going public hurts both sides and there will have been talks, which have broken down.

Disney didn't give a crap about their new FOX staff, when cutting thousands of jobs. They're a mega business who were never going to the pandemic wall. This is a slimeball exec trying it on.

Edit: She's also a 36 year old actress just killed off in the biggest global franchise after a decade of being passed over for her own lead outings, while being absolutely key to driving said franchise.

BW could have had a trilogy by now and they're screwing her on her only film? Screw that

As for Disney's COVID highground attitude...

They certainly didn't look after their staff, during lockdown either

pixelburp

Disney are a nickel and dime operation, and a corporation in the truest most modern sense. Heck most studios try to skip paying cinemas people or taxes, this isn't new. Hiding behind CoVid in the press release seems on brand for a corpos tactic. While Johansson may not need the money she's entitled to a grievance that she was owed something different. Heck she herself might have had investments tied into an expected, successful cinema release. She could be looking at a larger loss than what she felt was owed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685717#Comment_117685717

I could see the thinking there: those first 3 episodes were a chore to get through at the best of times. Still think the show was poor, possibly having way less story than it had episodes to work with. Felt like a film script stretched paper thin

It didn't feel stretched at all doing it that way, and I did feel that on weekly view. Its pacing is completely different when you continue the story immediately.

The first 2 episodes do what they're supposed to and you're asking what's going on but don't have a week to contemplate are they meant to be funny or not.

E3 and 4 together really open it up and then you're on the home stretch. It's, honestly, opened my eyes to how pacing choices completely change a presentation

Edit: it's actually reminded me of Star Trek Enterprise season 3. During the original airing I was constantly just hoping they'd get on with it. Recent Netflix run through and it's a tight, tense, and claustrophobic (in a good way) season

Sad Professor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685678#Comment_117685678

ScarJo would have had publicity obligations under her contract, so she can't go damaging the film's box office prospects while simultaneously claiming she's entitled to greater compensation. That would her hurt lawsuit as well as her pocket. Other factors may be at play too. ScarJo has another Disney film in the works at the moment. She may be trying to get out of it or negotiate a better deal.

Varik

Pretty sure she's going to lose.

Kind of hard to argue what the definition of "wide theatrical release" is when it's defined in the actual contract you've signed; 1500+ screens.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689298#Comment_117689298

Doesn't have a leg to stand on - was definitely playing on over 4,000 screens

https://www.timescolonist.com/black-widow-soars-to-pandemic-box-office-record-1.24341002

Ironic that any poster "virtue signalling" for SJ that have pirated the movie instead of going to the cinema was doing her out of money 😂

McDermotX

Possibly, but the other argument needs to be put forward, that the world has changed considerably over the last 18 months or so and the likes of Hollywood and the acting classes have to adapt in the same way most others business and people have had to.

Black Widow may have made more if this had never happened, but I'm certainly more certain that it wouldn't have made a significant dent if it was still delayed and not released till 'things were back to normal'. We still don't know what the new 'normal' is after all. Casual glance at the UK box-office shows a level half of what it was pre-pandemic, in what is technically a more or less unrestricted and highly vaccinated market. US box-office outlook already indicates revenue damage for the next 4 years, worse than earlier predictions.

If they'd opened theatrical-only earlier, it would have flatlined, if they delayed for, say, next Spring, it would have had middling returns IMO. Not to mention the impact to other plans. Oft-forgotten is the fact that once a movie is in the can, it's losing money until it sells tickets, whether that's down to investor deadlines, legal obligations, contract disputes etc. It cannot just sit there in the backroom for years.

I don't know the ins and outs of the details of Johansson/Disney's contract, but I suspect she would have liked her vehicle to have been motoring in the cinemas years ago, which is probably more to the heart of the problem, and while I've no sympathy for Disney at all, both parties need to sit back and re-assess their positions. I suspect a compromise down the line, best case.

pixelburp

Thing is, I think there's room for all angles to be correct. There possibly is an element of superhero fatigue, in the sense that if it isn't MCU or DC there's a creeping broad apathy from audiences. The appetite isn't infinite, nor without preferences. Look at how hard Jupiter's Legacy flopped on Netflix, presumably giving the service pause about that big cheque they signed for Mark Milar's work. OK, The Boys on Amazon has done well, but I think it has traded on its inherent violent transgression of the tropes, rather than an embrace of them.

If Hollywood truly is the race to be second, then it stands to reason the properties most resistant to audience disinterest or fatigue would the one(s) that caused the gold rush in the first place. The MCU created a very stable, long-term product that other studios have singularly failed to replicate (mostly cos they keep ballsing it up, cough cough DC), and I would speculate while broad audiences might tire of capes in general, the MCU might tick onwards within its own realm.

Is Jupiter's Legacy any good?

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117792164#Comment_117792164

Truthfully? I didn't watch it myself, but mostly because the consensus from opinions I'd value were a series of gigantic shoulder-shrugs. That it wasn't terrible, just very inessential and lacking spark. Lazy almost, perhaps symptomatic of that gold rush. Netflix agreeing, 'cos they cancelled it fairly soon after release?

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117797127#Comment_117797127

How is it irrelevant? The contract details are key, if they had no wording in the deal that stopped a duel release then Johansson it'll be a tough case to make.

'Compromising' box office ticket sales seems like a stretch when Disney can say they actually saved Johansson far more money by pushing the original release date from peak pandemic to when it was eventually released (not that Disney didn't also gain from it).

Both sides come out of this looking poorly by not dealing with it behind the scenes - sure Disney made money from Johansson for years but she's also made an absolute fortune from them.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117798304#Comment_117798304

That first video is a bit of a joke, she just reads Johannsson's side and nods her head without any effort of thinking what the Disney response could be. The second video has even less substance, just a load of bile from two guys shouting how mean Disney are.

Here's a pretty short article looking from a legal perspective at the case from both sides and it comes to the conclusion that her case is pretty weak. As discussed here previously, it points out how she had nothing in her contract that it had to be exclusively in theatres - the only explicit element was 1500 screens in the US and they released in 9000. We only have sight of the elements of contract and communications that Johannsson's team has chosen to put into the public domain and they aren't anything close to slam dunks.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/scarlett-johanssons-black-widow-lawsuit-1234990644/

A big takeaway is why this was always headed to arbitration - given that it is part of her deal that she very weakly tried to get around and the route she could have gone to from day 1 rather than go public with a lawsuit of Disney. Instead of going this route she agreed to take to resolve contract differences with 'the big bully' she instead took a swing and now her team and many others are trying to paint her as some poor victim after the big bully responded like big bullies do - again both sides coming off really bad.

It's generally accepted in the industry that WarnerMedia and HBO overpaid actors for streaming compensation deals on movies

Hence why there are a few entries on the highest paid roles of all-time by them over the last year and in pandemic times of all times

https://www.businessinsider.com/16-of-the-highest-paid-movie-roles-of-all-time-2018-5?r=US&IR=T

flazio

Bumping to remind you that it comes out on Disney+ this Wednesday.

Slydice

Gave this a watch. Very enjoyable! Way more than I could tell from the trailers.

I thought they did the family parts really well. It was reluctant but it felt like a proper bond. Liked the jokes too! 🙂

Also seemed to work very well after seeing the Hawkeye TV series. Wierd but worked for me.

Spoiler Warning

Especially the sentimental call-backs/call-forwards. Seemed to work both ways

For the future, it's strange, there felt like likes of potential.

Spoiler Warning

Red Guardian kept mentioning fighting Captain America so it almost sounds like there's a back-in-time film lined up for that.

Definitely wouldn't mind seeing more Yelena, Melina, Taskmaster and The Black Widows!

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118453272#Comment_118453272

Chris Evans has left the MCU so there no chance of a live action story with Red Guardian.

I have mixed feeling about such a story. It would be cool to see some post-thaw Rodgers adventures from in between the movies but also it is fun with how they left it ambiguous as to whether or not Red Guardian was telling tall tales.

flazio

Red Guardian was called out on that wasn't he? How Captain America was still in ice when RG claimed to have fought him? Although I have a theory that it might have been Isiah (the old man we meet in Falcon and the Winter Solider)

Anyway, I reckon Marvel are already working on a buddy cop series for "Hawkeye and The Black Widow" featuring Yelena and Kate Bishop.