NBP part II

ussjtrunks

If they arent fed fibre I really dont see the point to it they will just be giving people similar internet to the wireless systems they already have access to unless they are using point to point wireless fed with fibre but youd imagine thatd be very expensive to run to all the locations

Johnboy1951

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

They seem to have ignored any existing WISP coverage. It is like they don't exist. I'm only going on Government statements and an interview with enet saying they will be wireless. I don't see how they could run fibre to 287 separate locations within 12 months without purchasing expensive dark fibre from open eir which I don't believe they are going to do.

The whole BCP thing is a bit of a sideshow in my opinion. It seems to have been the Government's idea so that they can show something tangible for the first year of the project.

That would seem to be a complete waste of money ...... no matter what way you look at it.

Is it really that the feed to these hubs will be wireless, or is it that the hub will be broadcasting wirelessly?

tsue921i8wljb3

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

That would seem to be a complete waste of money ...... no matter what way you look at it.

Is it really that the feed to these hubs will be wireless, or is it that the hub will be making broadband available wirelessly?

My understanding is that is will be wireless backhaul so fed by wireless. Apparently they will also be dismantled when passed by fibre so they are not permanent.

tsue921i8wljb3

ussjtrunks wrote: »

If they arent fed fibre I really dont see the point to it they will just be giving people similar internet to the wireless systems they already have access to unless they are using point to point wireless fed with fibre but youd imagine thatd be very expensive to run to all the locations

enet have an ubiquitous wireless network capable of delivering superfast and reliable bandwidth to end users in the traditionally "hard to reach" areas.

https://www.enet.ie/mans-search.html (wireless tab)

xxyyzz

theguzman wrote: »

Wireless is not broadband anymore, Broadband can only be delivered by Fibre, Wireless can only deliver a tiny fraction of the bandwidth required and it is not upgradable or future proofed. People on wireless are usually stuck with a very slow upload and they don't have broadband per say anymore.

Once you get fibre into your home the speed can continuously be increased as required and that single fibre optic glass tube the same thickness as a human hair which will be connected to every home in Ireland could carry the worlds entire internet traffic through it from Belmullet to Bantry or Kenmare to Killybegs because it is optical fibre.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/192929-255tbps-worlds-fastest-network-could-carry-all-the-internet-traffic-single-fiber



Fibre is future proofed and until Physics and Scientists develop a way to break the speed of light then Fibre will remain the worlds number 1 method of delivering data around the world. Wireless cannot ever compete with it due to the laws of physics and I for certainly am not going to argue with Einstein's theory of Relativity.

Thanks for the physics lesson now could you re-read my post. I'm asking why they would bother supplying the bcp's with wireless internet when wireless internet would be available locally anyway. That would seem to be non-sensical

The high horse brigade

There is a big difference between licensed uncontended "point to point" and unlicensed contended "point to multi point" wireless. You cannot compare.

xxyyzz

My local bcp is in an area where relatively decent wireless is readily available ( 30 -50mbps) so I really hope this isn't the case.

Gary kk

xxyyzz wrote: »

Thanks for the physics lesson now could you re-read my post. I'm asking why they would bother supplying the bcp's with wireless internet when wireless internet would be available locally anyway. That would seem to be non-sensical

Probably so the can control the download and upload speed

theguzman

Since the BCP would be just one premises it would most likely be given some type of microwave link (24Ghz Ubiquiti airfibre perhaps) This could give 400mbps to 1gbit directly to the BCP. The radio antenna for this costs several thousands of Euro.

Wheras the charlatan Wisps use Ubiquiti nanobeams etc which can be bought on amazon for less than €100.

This would be purely point to point and it is impossible to deliver these type of bandwidths to clusters of rural houses using this wireless technology because the airwaves are jam packed already.

The BCP are purely an exercise in marketing allowing Government minister and County Councillors to do some PR publicity and cut a few ribbons etc. They will come in handy if you lived near than and wanted to download or upload a few massive files in a hurry, it is practically impossible to use Wisp internet for anything nowadays and most of them were obsolete before they ever started.

Thunderbird1

Sure rural ireland has no internet whatsoever, the teens in rural ireland don't know what Instagram or Snapchat is because they can only pick up 1g on their smartphones.... That's certainly the impression d4s have from the media.

theguzman

Thunderbird1 wrote: »

Sure rural ireland has no internet whatsoever, the teens in rural ireland don't know what Instagram or Snapchat is because they can only pick up 1g on their smartphones.... That's certainly the impression d4s have from the media.

Having a 3G signal or a 4G signal is not Broadband Access, real broadband access means you are connected directly by fibre to the national and international grid. The possibilities are endless and having a fibreoptic connection will revolutionise Ireland and finally get rid of the Wireless Providers who have ripped off the people for far too long and who never invested into a network only sprung up a few poles here and there and used 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz licence free transmitter antennas which can be bought extremely cheaply ensuring they profited off large installation fees whilst delivering 5-7mbs of an unusable connection.

Ultimanemo

Thunderbird1 wrote: »

Sure rural ireland has no internet whatsoever, the teens in rural ireland don't know what Instagram or Snapchat is because they can only pick up 1g on their smartphones.... That's certainly the impression d4s have from the media.

The same you can say about any infrastructure in the cities, Dubliners don't need expensive public transport infrastructure, they can all cycle to work, they will be fine.

Thunderbird1

theguzman wrote: »

Having a 3G signal or a 4G signal is not Broadband Access, real broadband access means you are connected directly by fibre to the national and international grid. The possibilities are endless and having a fibreoptic connection will revolutionise Ireland and finally get rid of the Wireless Providers who have ripped off the people for far too long and who never invested into a network only sprung up a few poles here and there and used 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz licence free transmitter antennas which can be bought extremely cheaply ensuring they profited off large installation fees whilst delivering 5-7mbs of an unusable connection.

I get it, anoraks who post here and thank each others posts have a hard on for fibre but that doesn't change the fact that less than 15% of rural households have signed up to eir fibre where it's available because most average members of the public needs are met with wireless

bennyineire

Thunderbird1 wrote: »

I get it, anoraks who post here and thank each others posts have a hard on for fibre but that doesn't change the fact that less than 15% of rural households have signed up to eir fibre where it's available because most average members of the public needs are met with wireless

So this is your third post on boards and 2 have been exact copies, how may other accounts you got here on boards ?

Sad really that someone would waster energy like this

theguzman

Thunderbird1 wrote: »

I get it, anoraks who post here and thank each others posts have a hard on for fibre but that doesn't change the fact that less than 15% of rural households have signed up to eir fibre where it's available because most average members of the public needs are met with wireless

Most members of the public are currently actually met with copper and docsis cable and an increasing amount are changing to fibre daily. The only people who are using wireless are those who have no choice. If we all took your approach then everything in life would be "just have to do". There would be no rural electrification, no Knock or Kerry airports, No Motorways or no Railways.

Times change and people change, Wireless will be consigned to history as technologies change and countries don't stand still. In progressive countries around the World who see the advantages of Infrastructure and the economic benefit it brings there is a massive swing towards fibre optics.

If you build it they will come, in China they have built 30,000kms of High Speed Rail in the last decade absolutely revolutionising their country, fibre is just something they take for granted there. Humanity tends to be positive and optimistic and the NBP will go down in history as one of the best decisions this country ever took, the Govt stood up and have to date made progress albeit delayed but we are getting there.

Wireless companies had to spend very little compared to the return they made and they made enormous profits due to their monopolistic position within that rural market, they are expensive vastly overpriced and deliver inferior quality service limited by the laws of physics and their own greed. A company like EIR competes within the market, has enormous overheads and pension liabilities and despite the flack they get have invested enormously into broadband primarily in urban centres and more recently in rural Ireland also.

The whinging from the wisps is because the goose that laid the golden egg is sick and dying and the most of them will be gone out of business in the next few years.

Johnboy1951

Thunderbird1 wrote: »

I get it, anoraks who post here and thank each others posts have a hard on for fibre but that doesn't change the fact that less than 15% of rural households have signed up to eir fibre where it's available because most average members of the public needs are met with wireless

Hehehehehehehe

Sometimes there is a post that provides a real laugh ....... so thank you!

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Hehehehehehehe

Sometimes there is a post that provides a real laugh ....... so thank you!

I have been chuckling for a few posts here. :P

/M

The Cush

Clare Champion newspaper interview with David McCourt - https://clarechampion.ie/i-couldnt-comment-on-it-before-but-it-was-unfair-david-mccourt/

Interestingly he is based in Newmarket-on-Fergus in Co. Clare, Timmy Dooley's constituency

While the price tag associated with the project was criticised, not least by political parties in opposition, he described some of the commentary as “totally misleading”.

Also …

Now that the deal is over the line, he said things can start to move fairly quickly. “We have areas in Cork, areas in Galway, other areas I can’t remember off the top of my head that we’re getting to right away to start building. Our design contract is done. We have 60 employees already, our civil contractors are already lined up, our supply chain is already lined up, so we can start design right away. You’ll see people in high-vis vests out checking the poles and doing detailed design right away.”

https://clarechampion.ie/i-will-make-sure-this-is-a-success-if-i-have-to-do-it-myself/

The Cush

Peter Hendrick, NBI CEO, Newstalk interview last Tuesday, contract signing day

https://www.newstalk.com/news/exclusive-national-broadband-ceo-signing-contract-historic-day-ireland-926808

tsue921i8wljb3

Fianna Fáil now raising questions about Oak Hill, previously not part of the consortium, but who emerged on contract signing day as providing an unknown share of equity and capital.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/questions-raised-over-last-minute-undisclosed-national-broadband-plan-investor-pt3smttbg?region=ie&t=ie

tsue921i8wljb3

And a rather scathing take on the process from Justine McCarthy...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/justine-mccarthy-why-the-mystery-over-broadband-funding-wpvfzgnh0

allanpkr

nothing like a no news story, that a journalist will try to make into a story. hmmm i wonder does she have ftth already? or is she just a ff supporter.

BarryM

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

They seem to have ignored any existing WISP coverage. It is like they don't exist. I'm only going on Government statements and an interview with enet saying they will be wireless. I don't see how they could run fibre to 287 separate locations within 12 months without purchasing expensive dark fibre from open eir which I don't believe they are going to do.

The whole BCP thing is a bit of a sideshow in my opinion. It seems to have been the Government's idea so that they can show something tangible for the first year of the project.

Couple of things -

-the map reproduced above is a piece of engineering fallacy. If you look at the centre points of some of the circles they are in impossible locations, even in the sea!!
- the post above implies that wireless as a push out from BCPs, is just that, wireless.
- From my own knowledge of the geography of West Cork wireless end point access will involve 100s of poles or some sort of 'carrier'

clohamon

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

And a rather scathing take on the process from Justine McCarthy...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/justine-mccarthy-why-the-mystery-over-broadband-funding-wpvfzgnh0

In fairness to her, she's actually done some work; unlike a lot of the others. And there's no denying that it's been a pretty ugly process overall.

Small point, but Oak Hill, which the article claims are new members of the consortium, are not that new. When the the Irish Infrastructure Fund first took a stake in enet, through Speed Fibre DAC, it was Oak Hill's stake that they bought.

wexfordman2

theguzman wrote: »

Having a 3G signal or a 4G signal is not Broadband Access, real broadband access means you are connected directly by fibre to the national and international grid. The possibilities are endless and having a fibreoptic connection will revolutionise Ireland and finally get rid of the Wireless Providers who have ripped off the people for far too long and who never invested into a network only sprung up a few poles here and there and used 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz licence free transmitter antennas which can be bought extremely cheaply ensuring they profited off large installation fees whilst delivering 5-7mbs of an unusable connection.

While I agree that wireless is absolutely not the way to go, your assesment if wireless providers is unfair and simplistic.

Large installation fees ? 150 euro to have someone install an external antenna on your house, cable it in etc ? Give me a break, that's most likely a loss they make on the install.

My wireless provider took a risk , invested a significant about if time, energy and money into developing and expanding his network, and operates a good service.

The use if unlicensed spectrum is pretty much what enabled them to offer a service in the first place, there were no large.commercial operators out there able or willing to finance the deployment of licenced networks, albeit imagine (and look how they have done).

WISP's took an opportunity available and deployed where no one else would, when no other options were available, and should be commended for that.

Their time has come and gone however.

wexfordman2

Thunderbird1 wrote: »

Sure rural ireland has no internet whatsoever, the teens in rural ireland don't know what Instagram or Snapchat is because they can only pick up 1g on their smartphones.... That's certainly the impression d4s have from the media.

I think you are saying that any form of fixed line broadband is redundant (in rural and urban areas) cos mobile internet is available ?

wexfordman2

Thunderbird1 wrote: »

I get it, anoraks who post here and thank each others posts have a hard on for fibre but that doesn't change the fact that less than 15% of rural households have signed up to eir fibre where it's available because most average members of the public needs are met with wireless

Ahh,

It's fine, I thought you were deliberately trolling, but from your post above, I can see that it's simply that you dont understand.

The requirements and usage levels today, are not the benchmark for future requirements. If you had any understanding about the exponential growth of data (not your fault that you dont), then you would have a better understanding.

clohamon

BarryM wrote: »

Couple of things -

-the map reproduced above is a piece of engineering fallacy. If you look at the centre points of some of the circles they are in impossible locations, even in the sea!!
- the post above implies that wireless as a push out from BCPs, is just that, wireless.
- From my own knowledge of the geography of West Cork wireless end point access will involve 100s of poles or some sort of 'carrier'

I think you're confusing the BCPs with navi's NBI OLT locations.

The BCPs, which are not on the posted google earth map, only serve the premises in which they are located. They will be connected to the wider network by a dedicated wireless microwave link until NBI's fibre network reaches them.

tsue921i8wljb3

BarryM wrote: »

Couple of things -

-the map reproduced above is a piece of engineering fallacy. If you look at the centre points of some of the circles they are in impossible locations, even in the sea!!
- the post above implies that wireless as a push out from BCPs, is just that, wireless.
- From my own knowledge of the geography of West Cork wireless end point access will involve 100s of poles or some sort of 'carrier'

As clohamon said, the BCP and OLT locations are separate and not related. This is a map of BCP locations

https://nbi.ie/map/

I did not publish any OLT map. OLTs have nothing to do with wireless. They are the origin points for the fibre network.

allanpkr

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Ahh,

It's fine, I thought you were deliberately trolling, but from your post above, I can see that it's simply that you dont understand.

The requirements and usage levels today, are not the benchmark for future requirements. If you had any understanding about the exponential growth of data (not your fault that you dont), then you would have a better understanding.

totally true amount of data in near future is totally beyond wireless ability.