Cyclists and lorries on rural roads...

jam_mac_jam

Even though the lorry is on the wrong side of the road, it is still the cyclists fault? Really?

happydan

5uspect wrote: »

Yes, yes they are. Cyclists are traffic just like anyone else on the road.

The lesson here is that some road users seem to think they have more of a right to the road than the most vulnerable on our roads. These people are dangerous idiots.

you saying that the cyclist who was in the middle of the road facing an oncoming truck was not the idiot in this ?

ampleforth

happydan wrote: »

you saying that the cyclist who was in the middle of the road facing an oncoming truck was not the idiot in this ?

Again, i would like to point out that being right is irrelevant to the rough-decision making of nature, especially the concept of sudden death.

5uspect

happydan wrote: »

you saying that the cyclist who was in the middle of the road facing an oncoming truck was not the idiot in this ?

The cyclist wasn’t straddling the white line. He was well within his lane. Wide-angle action cameras can make this hard to see when the front wheel isn’t visible, which is why I always tilt mine down a bit.

The lorry veered violently across the solid white line and was clearly driving recklessly. If that makes the cyclist an idiot then we all, cyclists and motorists, may as well stay in our homes and never go out because the roads are simply not safe.

You started by claiming that the cyclist had no right to be on the road, now he’s an idiot for being on the road. We’re going to continue to have awful and avoidable road deaths unless attitudes like this stop. It’s no different to drink driving.

paleoperson

ah lads come on... I spent a while trying to find this video as the site doesn't work for me, thinking it was going to be something shocking.

All this discussion and horror and a newspaper article over a driver going slightly over the line?

You cannot see from the video how close the truck was. Sometimes when you see things from one perspective that look close from another you can see he was miles away and clearly knew what he was doing the entire time. How many tight situations do you see huge buses and lorries in the city pull through?

As for what caused it - ever heard of potholes? Believe it or not but they're quite common on Irish roads. They can be dangerous if you go straight into them so you should avoid them. A rock may have come off the side of the ditch, there might have been a dead animal, it could be so many things. No need to fantasize about how maybe the lorry driver was texting.

All road users are expected to stay as close to their own side as possible. That's the whole point of cycling one after the other rather than next to each other. Many people, including the law, generally want to ascribe all the blame to one party, when that's usually not the case. While the truck driver may or may not be a clown, the cyclist is a clown for sure with that position.

Plasmoid

paleoperson wrote: »

As for what caused it - ever heard of potholes? Believe it or not but they're quite common on Irish roads. They can be dangerous if you go straight into them so you should avoid them. A rock may have come off the side of the ditch, there might have been a dead animal, it could be so many things. No need to fantasize about how maybe the lorry driver was texting.

All road users are expected to stay as close to their own side as possible.

That seems like a strange belief. So if a collision had occurred, between this Lorry and the cyclist, or another car, or another lorry avoiding a pothole on it's side of the road, that's just how things are, no blame on anyone.

I hope i never meet you on the roads.

Plasmoid

Plasmoid wrote: »

So if a collision had occurred, between this Lorry and the cyclist, or another car, or another lorry avoiding a pothole on it's side of the road, that's just how things are, no blame on anyone.

You can blame who ever you want, but one thing is for sure: if a collision occurs between a cyclist and a lorry the cyclist won't be blaming anyone.

Safer to keep well into your own side when there is a lorry coming towards you.

evolving_doors

What's with this 'beginner cyclist' training nonsense?
Is the cyclist near the middle of the road actually instructing someone on their left on how to cycle?

freshpopcorn

Mod NoteMoved to motors please follow local rules/charter/etc.

Weepsie

happydan wrote: »

cyclist said he was out in the middle of the road as he had a beginner cyclist beside him.
he's NOT entitled to cycle two abreast on a narrow road with a solid white line.
hopefully he learnt his lesson.
not great diving by truck either in fairness

Yes he is. You're very wrong. Also cycling in the middle of the lane on rural roads is to prevent stupid overtakes.

I'm overtaken and left with space generally, but the amount of drivers who put oncoming drivers at risk is nuts.

amcalester

evolving_doors wrote: »

What's with this 'beginner cyclist' training nonsense?
Is the cyclist near the middle of the road actually instructing someone on their left on how to cycle?

Probably trying a encourage motorists to pass wider than normal.

A new or inexperienced cyclist could easily fall over if close passed at 80kmh.

astrofool

Lorry should not have done that, and was very close to causing a tragic accident.

The "beginner cyclist" excuse for cycling in the middle of the road feels very tacked on as if they knew they were wrong being there, it still doesn't excuse the lorry though.

elperello

Deleted User wrote: »

You can blame who ever you want, but one thing is for sure: if a collision occurs between a cyclist and a lorry the cyclist won't be blaming anyone.

Safer to keep well into your own side when there is a lorry coming towards you.

I'm not taking sides but there is an equal onus on the truck driver to keep well to his own side.

On a country road a couple of weeks ago a large group of cyclists came around a bend.As I was approaching them one cyclist just veered across the road for no reason. I don't know what caused it but I just stuck the car to the road. Disaster averted.

Reason for recounting is to point out that we need to look out for each other not retreat into separate camps.

jelutong

How anyone can argue that the lorry driver wasn't 100% in the wrong beats me.

wonski

happydan wrote: »

cyclist said he was out in the middle of the road as he had a beginner cyclist beside him.
he's NOT entitled to cycle two abreast on a narrow road with a solid white line.
hopefully he learnt his lesson.
not great diving by truck either in fairness

What is this beginner thing???

Was it 8 years old beginner or a middle aged man who was just slow?

Being slow is OK as long as you keep to the left.

The driver was a dick regardless. Lost concentration, on his phone or watching YouTube. Whatever it was.

somefeen

This is 100% on the truck driver. Whether the cyclist should have been there or not is irrelevant, he was there.

Truck drivers have licences and certification, cyclist don't. A truck driver getting mad at a cyclist for being in the middle of the road is like an adult shouting at a toddler for bumping into them.

Weepsie

astrofool wrote: »

Lorry should not have done that, and was very close to causing a tragic accident.

The "beginner cyclist" excuse for cycling in the middle of the road feels very tacked on as if they knew they were wrong being there, it still doesn't excuse the lorry though.

There's nothing wrong with taking the middle of the lane though

Allinall

Weepsie wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with taking the middle of the lane though

There is if you get hit by a truck.

No point in being right in the graveyard.

jelutong

jelutong wrote: »

How anyone can argue that the lorry driver wasn't 100% in the wrong beats me.

It's not really a right/wrong situation though because nothing actually happened.

wonski

I still don't understand the whole beginner thing.

So you drive in front of another cyclist who is not used to driving on the road and act as a barrier?

All good, but unless you are made of concrete you are a little bollard. If something is going to happen it will happen.

Most adults can cycle on the road without a special vehicle in front of them anyway.

work

The truck driver was speeding and veered at the cyclist. Criminal negligence or attempted murder take your pick
The cyclist broke no rules, not ideal to be out so far though but that is NO EXCUSE for blaming him, if there was an incident the responsibility lies with the truck driver 100%

wonski

Nobody is blaming the cyclist, work.

Dravokivich

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can see that there is something on the Lorry side of the road that he is being cautious to avoid, as is correct course of action. The footage looks like it comes from April 2017 so if no action was taken yet I doubt any will be,

There is nothing on the lorrys lane that needed to be avoided. Even if there was it didn't just spring out.

Odyssey 2005

Weepsie wrote: »

Yes he is. You're very wrong. Also cycling in the middle of the lane on rural roads is to prevent stupid overtakes.

I'm overtaken and left with space generally, but the amount of drivers who put oncoming drivers at risk is nuts.

Are you the traffic cops now ?

Duckjob

First, Mr lorry driver is a raving psychopath. Anyone who makes a conscious decision to ride 40 tonnes of metal that close and at that speed to any other road user, let alone an unprotected one, needs to have their licence posted to the moon.

When I saw the article I didn't realise at first that the cyclist had another cyclist inside, but lets forget that for a moment and focus on cyclist road position in general-

There seems to be a wide spread belief among motorists that cyclists should be over at the edge because that's the "safest place". Sorry to say, but this premise is rooted in complete (but understandable if you don't cycle) ignorance of realities of cycling in Ireland.

For anyone that's genuinely interested in gaining a better understanding about cycling - here follows a genuine 1st person explanation of why cyclists often ride further out in a lane like this:

Once upon a time, I would have ridden narrow roads like this, on the yellow verge line, even with hedges right beside the line.

Being a good little cyclist. Out of the way of traffic. I should be good and safe there right?

Nope.

Many times I could easily meet Mr Psycho lorry driver or one of his cousins coming from behind me in the same direction, who with traffic passing from the other way would still insist on thundering through the gap between me and the oncoming traffic.

I am now left with nowhere to go to on my left (the very edge of the road), and 40 tonnes of lorry thundering past my right shoulder. As it passes I can feel the suck of air pulling me towards the lorries wheels and I spend a few seconds genuinely visualising my wife and kids crying at my funeral in a couple of days time.

So now, after enduring and surviving that terrifying experience a couple of times, I decide now that if I'm on a road like that, traffic needs to pass me like a car - ie. the opposite lane needs to be fully clear and traffic needs to cross over into it to pass me. If its not clear, the cars need to wait - just like they would for a tractor or a slow car.

And you know what? It works - it may sound counter intuitive but it's a lot safer. What's more - I know in advance the good drivers from the bad ones. The good ones, who would have waited to make a good safe overtake are just as happy to wait as they would have done before. If I get an angry honk behind me, I know it's one of the bad drivers that would have probably have squeezed through and put me in that life threatening situation.

Occasionally one of those bad drivers passes and skims past me to "teach me a lesson", but even then, at least I have space on my left to get away from them if the pass is uncomfortably close/fast.

Of course, In discussing relative safety of road position, it must be said that meeting a psychopath like that lorry driver, and all bets are off - you take whatever evasive action is necessary to preserve your life.

We all put our lives in the hands of other drivers not to kill us every day, although car drivers generally have the luxury of not being driven at in this fashion.

Our only means of beating psychopaths like this on our roads is, as a society to call them out for being psychopaths and point the blame squarely at them for creating hugely dangerous situations that don't have to be on our roads If, instead of doing this , we instead continue to focus our attention to the near victims of these crazy people, then those psychopaths continue unchecked in their actions.

donvito99

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Are you the traffic cops now ?

Is there a code or marker on the back of your full drivers licence which indicates that you are a spa?

Odyssey 2005

donvito99 wrote: »

Is there a code or marker on the back of your full drivers licence which indicates that you are a spa?

Yeah. It says the very same as yours 101

Dravokivich

Dravokivich wrote: »

There is nothing on the lorrys lane that needed to be avoided. Even if there was it didn't just spring out.

Yes there was. A potential hazard at the roadside. Similar in fact to if a cyclist was there, 99.9% of Lorry drivers would pull out a little to give said cyclist a wide berth. This is what happened here. No one was hurt. No one even had to take evasive action. Calm down cyclists, you're ok.

Dravokivich

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes there was. A potential hazard at the roadside. Similar in fact to if a cyclist was there, 99.9% of Lorry drivers would pull out a little to give said cyclist a wide berth. This is what happened here. No one was hurt. No one even had to take evasive action. Calm down cyclists, you're ok.

I looked several times. There was nothing to be avoided. If you're so certain their was, show it.

work

work wrote: »

The truck driver was speeding and veered at the cyclist. Criminal negligence or attempted murder take your pick

And this is exactly why that hideous term 'snowflake' became a thing. I drive every day. Almost every day I avoid a situation that could become an accident. I don't try to label other road users as attempted murderers - why? Because I'm not a hysterical fool.