Cyclists and lorries on rural roads...

ampleforth · 12-07-2019 2:33pm #1

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/frightening-footage-shows-near-head-on-collision-between-cyclist-and-lorry-on-rural-road-35652315.html

Wondering if the picture here is that obvious to be the full fault of the lorry.

The lorry driver appears to have overstepped about 50cm or so over the line which is bad driving.

However, is the real problem not just the narrow roads, the missing lanes for the cyclists or even, and I am just assuming here, the cyclist's false sense of security that leads him to occupy the full lane despite his obvious absence of body armour and super powers?

Are quite unrealistic about the amount of space these narrow country roads actually have?

Shai · 12-07-2019 2:39pm

If the lane had contained a car instead of a cyclist, and the lorry did what he did, then there would have been a major (potentially fatal) crash. Would you also be wondering if the lorry was to blame in that scenario?

Mickeroo · 12-07-2019 2:41pm

The lorry veered into the wrong lane, that puts him at fault whether it's a cyclist or an imperial star cruiser coming the other way. Basic stuff.

blackwhite · 12-07-2019 2:43pm

Truck driver very cleared veered towards the cyclists.

I would hope the footage has been shared with Garda RPU

xckjoo · 12-07-2019 2:43pm

ampleforth wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/frightening-footage-shows-near-head-on-collision-between-cyclist-and-lorry-on-rural-road-35652315.html

Wondering if the picture here is that obvious to be the full fault of the lorry.

The lorry driver appears to have overstepped about 50cm or so over the line which is bad driving.

However, is the real problem not just narrow road, the missing lanes for the cyclists or even, and I am just assuming here, the cyclist false sense of security that leads him to occupy the full lane despite his obvious absence of body armour and super powers?

Are quite unrealistic about the amount of space these narrow country roads actually have?

Lol. Do you think a car is going to do much to stop one of those trucks if it hits it at speed?

Boom_Bap · 12-07-2019 2:43pm

Lorry crossed a solid white line, previous to crossing the line, it appeared to have ample space in the lane.

ampleforth · 12-07-2019 2:50pm

The lorry IS at fault here, but I do believe that the issue is being provoked by narrow roads and false sense of security. As a cyclist I would not dare to drive close to the middle of the lane just simply because I love being alive.

As a car you don't have a choice, you just die if you don't get away with a lost mirror... but as a cyclist you have.

TheValeyard · 12-07-2019 2:53pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

The lorry veered into the wrong lane, that puts him at fault whether it's a cyclist or an imperial star cruiser coming the other way. Basic stuff.

I disagree. An Imperial Star Cruiser always gets the right of way.

ampleforth · 12-07-2019 2:53pm

In short: Being right vs. being alive.

ampleforth · 12-07-2019 2:53pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

I disagree. An Imperial Star Cruiser always gets the right of way.

Don't mess with the force!

Odyssey 2005 · 12-07-2019 2:54pm

Why was the cyclist cycling in the middle of the road ?, on one or two occasions almost crossing the white line himself.

elperello · 12-07-2019 2:55pm

Scary.
I can't figure out why the truck driver crossed the line.
Inattention?

Odyssey 2005 · 12-07-2019 2:55pm

ampleforth wrote: »

The lorry IS at fault here, but I do believe that the issue is being provoked by narrow roads and false sense of security. As a cyclist I would not dare to drive close to the middle of the lane just simply because I love being alive.

As a car you don't have a choice, you just die if you don't get away with a lost mirror... but as a cyclist you have.

False sense of security ?. You mean a camera ?

12-07-2019 3:00pm

Shai wrote: »

If the lane had contained a car instead of a cyclist, and the lorry did what he did, then there would have been a major (potentially fatal) crash.

Disagree. Any experienced car driver knows to give a lorry extra space, it's just good driving sense. that means moving as far into your verge as possible. If this road user was too dumb to know that I'm afraid there's no point blaming the lorry and they can count themselves lucky. I expect he/she will not make the same judgement error again.

meeeeh · 12-07-2019 3:01pm

elperello wrote: »

Scary.
I can't figure out why the truck driver crossed the line.
Inattention?

It happens. This would be equally dangerous if not more dangerous if there was car driving opposite. I hope it was not intentional or because he was watching something on the phone.

I remember a family stopping on a hard shoulder of a motorway in another country. Truck driver was inattentive and veered into them from behind at full speed. They were all instantly dead and truck driver ran away from the location of the accident. He was found a few days later hanging of a tree.

Deagol · 12-07-2019 3:03pm

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Why was the cyclist cycling in the middle of the road ?, on one or two occasions almost crossing the white line himself.

That's neither here nor there. He was entitled to be there and was doing nothing wrong. What's frightening is that the lorry driver clearly and deliberately pulled across the road to intimidate the cyclist for no reason other than to be a cock.
Either that or he wasn't paying attention and wandered across but that from the looks of it, it isn't that benign.

Hopefully Gardai get involved and charge him with at the very least, driving without due care.

happydan · 12-07-2019 3:03pm

cyclist said he was out in the middle of the road as he had a beginner cyclist beside him.
he's NOT entitled to cycle two abreast on a narrow road with a solid white line.
hopefully he learnt his lesson.
not great diving by truck either in fairness

Odyssey 2005 · 12-07-2019 3:06pm

happydan wrote: »

cyclist said he was out in the middle of the road as he had a beginner cyclist beside him.
he's NOT entitled to cycle two abreast on a narrow road with a solid white line.
hopefully he learnt his lesson.
not great diving by truck either in fairness

Alsy,why would you bring a beginner cyclist into a road like that. I agree about the truck driver but the cameraman Carrie's some responsibility. Wonder how many he was holding up

RobbieMD · 12-07-2019 3:06pm

happydan wrote: »

cyclist said he was out in the middle of the road as he had a beginner cyclist beside him.
he's NOT entitled to cycle two abreast on a narrow road with a solid white line.
hopefully he learnt his lesson.
not great diving by truck either in fairness

Of course they’re allowed to cycle two abreast. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. The HGV crossing the white line is the problem here

Deagol · 12-07-2019 3:07pm

happydan wrote: »

cyclist said he was out in the middle of the road as he had a beginner cyclist beside him.
he's NOT entitled to cycle two abreast on a narrow road with a solid white line.
hopefully he learnt his lesson.
not great diving by truck either in fairness

You need to go back and do your driving lessons again and read the rules of the road.

Where someone cannot pass safely on their own side of the road then they must give way to traffic on the other side. And cyclists are perfectly entitled to cycle two abreast on any road. Though most don't on a narrow road to be courteous to other traffic.

In this case - lorry driver was being a dick and you know it.

12-07-2019 3:08pm

Deagol wrote: »

What's frightening is that the lorry driver clearly and deliberately pulled across the road to intimidate the cyclist for no reason other than to be a cock.
Either that or he wasn't paying attention and wandered across but that from the looks of it, it isn't that benign.

Hopefully Gardai get involved and charge him with at the very least, driving without due care.

You can see that there is something on the Lorry side of the road that he is being cautious to avoid, as is correct course of action. The footage looks like it comes from April 2017 so if no action was taken yet I doubt any will be,

ratracer · 12-07-2019 3:08pm

happydan wrote: »

cyclist said he was out in the middle of the road as he had a beginner cyclist beside him.
he's NOT entitled to cycle two abreast on a narrow road with a solid white line.
hopefully he learnt his lesson.
not great diving by truck either in fairness

This video is over two years old, but, what section of the ROR says the cyclist can’t cycle two a breast?

Deagol · 12-07-2019 3:09pm

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Alsy,why would you bring a beginner cyclist into a road like that. I agree about the truck driver but the cameraman Carrie's some responsibility. Wonder how many he was holding up

Ah, let me guess. He should have been on a quiet country road??

Or he should have been on a busy wide road?

Tell us which you would suggest is suitable to take begineers out on?

Boom_Bap · 12-07-2019 3:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You can see that there is something on the Lorry side of the road that he is being cautious to avoid, as is correct course of action. The footage looks like it comes from April 2017 so if no action was taken yet I doubt any will be,

slowing down and waiting for a safe opportunity to pass the obstacle on his side is the correct way to do it.

ampleforth · 12-07-2019 3:10pm

I wonder why this is printed now... and not two years ago.

12-07-2019 3:10pm

Boom_Bap wrote: »

slowing down and waiting for a safe opportunity to pass the obstacle on his side is the correct way to do it.

Yeah, try that in a lorry, Mate. Nobody was harmed so maybe he/she knew what they were doing.

ratracer · 12-07-2019 3:11pm

ampleforth wrote: »

I wonder why this is printed now... and not two years ago.

Look at the publication date......

Deagol · 12-07-2019 3:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You can see that there is something on the Lorry side of the road that he is being cautious to avoid, as is correct course of action. The footage looks like it comes from April 2017 so if no action was taken yet I doubt any will be,

Either your being deliberately obtuse or you are deluded. I'm looked at the video 8 times and there is clearly nothing on the side of that road that is causing the lorry driver to swerve. It was the first thing I thought to check to allow me to give the lorry driver the benefit of the doubt.

Call a spade a spade and admit the driver was being a complete dickwad.

12-07-2019 3:13pm

Deagol wrote: »

Either your being deliberately obtuse or you are deluded. I'm looked at the video 8 times and there is clearly nothing on the side of that road that is causing the lorry driver to swerve. It was the first thing I thought to check to allow me to give the lorry driver the benefit of the doubt.

Call a spade a spade and admit the driver was being a complete dickwad.

There is. Look closer. Can't make out exactly what it is but it is there, and was obviously enough to cause the driver concern.

biko · 12-07-2019 3:14pm

happydan wrote: »

he's NOT entitled to cycle two abreast on a narrow road with a solid white line

Here's a source for your claim www.StuffIjustMadeUp.com

5uspect · 12-07-2019 3:25pm

happydan wrote: »

he's NOT entitled to cycle two abreast on a narrow road with a solid white line.
hopefully he learnt his lesson.

Yes, yes they are. Cyclists are traffic just like anyone else on the road.

The lesson here is that some road users seem to think they have more of a right to the road than the most vulnerable on our roads. These people are dangerous idiots.

jam_mac_jam · 12-07-2019 3:29pm

Even though the lorry is on the wrong side of the road, it is still the cyclists fault? Really?

happydan · 12-07-2019 3:29pm

5uspect wrote: »

Yes, yes they are. Cyclists are traffic just like anyone else on the road.

The lesson here is that some road users seem to think they have more of a right to the road than the most vulnerable on our roads. These people are dangerous idiots.

you saying that the cyclist who was in the middle of the road facing an oncoming truck was not the idiot in this ?

ampleforth · 12-07-2019 3:52pm

happydan wrote: »

you saying that the cyclist who was in the middle of the road facing an oncoming truck was not the idiot in this ?

Again, i would like to point out that being right is irrelevant to the rough-decision making of nature, especially the concept of sudden death.

5uspect · 12-07-2019 3:53pm

happydan wrote: »

you saying that the cyclist who was in the middle of the road facing an oncoming truck was not the idiot in this ?

The cyclist wasn’t straddling the white line. He was well within his lane. Wide-angle action cameras can make this hard to see when the front wheel isn’t visible, which is why I always tilt mine down a bit.

The lorry veered violently across the solid white line and was clearly driving recklessly. If that makes the cyclist an idiot then we all, cyclists and motorists, may as well stay in our homes and never go out because the roads are simply not safe.

You started by claiming that the cyclist had no right to be on the road, now he’s an idiot for being on the road. We’re going to continue to have awful and avoidable road deaths unless attitudes like this stop. It’s no different to drink driving.

paleoperson · 12-07-2019 4:03pm

ah lads come on... I spent a while trying to find this video as the site doesn't work for me, thinking it was going to be something shocking.

All this discussion and horror and a newspaper article over a driver going slightly over the line?

You cannot see from the video how close the truck was. Sometimes when you see things from one perspective that look close from another you can see he was miles away and clearly knew what he was doing the entire time. How many tight situations do you see huge buses and lorries in the city pull through?

As for what caused it - ever heard of potholes? Believe it or not but they're quite common on Irish roads. They can be dangerous if you go straight into them so you should avoid them. A rock may have come off the side of the ditch, there might have been a dead animal, it could be so many things. No need to fantasize about how maybe the lorry driver was texting.

All road users are expected to stay as close to their own side as possible. That's the whole point of cycling one after the other rather than next to each other. Many people, including the law, generally want to ascribe all the blame to one party, when that's usually not the case. While the truck driver may or may not be a clown, the cyclist is a clown for sure with that position.

Plasmoid · 12-07-2019 4:22pm

paleoperson wrote: »

As for what caused it - ever heard of potholes? Believe it or not but they're quite common on Irish roads. They can be dangerous if you go straight into them so you should avoid them. A rock may have come off the side of the ditch, there might have been a dead animal, it could be so many things. No need to fantasize about how maybe the lorry driver was texting.

All road users are expected to stay as close to their own side as possible.

That seems like a strange belief. So if a collision had occurred, between this Lorry and the cyclist, or another car, or another lorry avoiding a pothole on it's side of the road, that's just how things are, no blame on anyone.

I hope i never meet you on the roads.

12-07-2019 4:53pm

Plasmoid wrote: »

So if a collision had occurred, between this Lorry and the cyclist, or another car, or another lorry avoiding a pothole on it's side of the road, that's just how things are, no blame on anyone.

You can blame who ever you want, but one thing is for sure: if a collision occurs between a cyclist and a lorry the cyclist won't be blaming anyone.

Safer to keep well into your own side when there is a lorry coming towards you.

evolving_doors · 12-07-2019 5:06pm

What's with this 'beginner cyclist' training nonsense?
Is the cyclist near the middle of the road actually instructing someone on their left on how to cycle?

freshpopcorn · 12-07-2019 5:08pm

Mod NoteMoved to motors please follow local rules/charter/etc.

amcalester · 12-07-2019 5:09pm

evolving_doors wrote: »

What's with this 'beginner cyclist' training nonsense?
Is the cyclist near the middle of the road actually instructing someone on their left on how to cycle?

Probably trying a encourage motorists to pass wider than normal.

A new or inexperienced cyclist could easily fall over if close passed at 80kmh.

astrofool · 12-07-2019 5:10pm

Lorry should not have done that, and was very close to causing a tragic accident.

The "beginner cyclist" excuse for cycling in the middle of the road feels very tacked on as if they knew they were wrong being there, it still doesn't excuse the lorry though.

elperello · 12-07-2019 5:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You can blame who ever you want, but one thing is for sure: if a collision occurs between a cyclist and a lorry the cyclist won't be blaming anyone.

Safer to keep well into your own side when there is a lorry coming towards you.

I'm not taking sides but there is an equal onus on the truck driver to keep well to his own side.

On a country road a couple of weeks ago a large group of cyclists came around a bend.As I was approaching them one cyclist just veered across the road for no reason. I don't know what caused it but I just stuck the car to the road. Disaster averted.

Reason for recounting is to point out that we need to look out for each other not retreat into separate camps.

jelutong · 12-07-2019 5:18pm

How anyone can argue that the lorry driver wasn't 100% in the wrong beats me.

wonski · 12-07-2019 5:18pm

happydan wrote: »

cyclist said he was out in the middle of the road as he had a beginner cyclist beside him.
he's NOT entitled to cycle two abreast on a narrow road with a solid white line.
hopefully he learnt his lesson.
not great diving by truck either in fairness

What is this beginner thing???

Was it 8 years old beginner or a middle aged man who was just slow?

Being slow is OK as long as you keep to the left.

The driver was a dick regardless. Lost concentration, on his phone or watching YouTube. Whatever it was.

somefeen · 12-07-2019 5:42pm

This is 100% on the truck driver. Whether the cyclist should have been there or not is irrelevant, he was there.

Truck drivers have licences and certification, cyclist don't. A truck driver getting mad at a cyclist for being in the middle of the road is like an adult shouting at a toddler for bumping into them.

Allinall · 12-07-2019 5:47pm

Weepsie wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with taking the middle of the lane though

There is if you get hit by a truck.

No point in being right in the graveyard.

12-07-2019 6:00pm

jelutong wrote: »

How anyone can argue that the lorry driver wasn't 100% in the wrong beats me.

It's not really a right/wrong situation though because nothing actually happened.

wonski · 12-07-2019 6:26pm

I still don't understand the whole beginner thing.

So you drive in front of another cyclist who is not used to driving on the road and act as a barrier?

All good, but unless you are made of concrete you are a little bollard. If something is going to happen it will happen.

Most adults can cycle on the road without a special vehicle in front of them anyway.

work · 12-07-2019 6:42pm

The truck driver was speeding and veered at the cyclist. Criminal negligence or attempted murder take your pick
The cyclist broke no rules, not ideal to be out so far though but that is NO EXCUSE for blaming him, if there was an incident the responsibility lies with the truck driver 100%

wonski · 12-07-2019 6:48pm

Nobody is blaming the cyclist, work.

Cyclists and lorries on rural roads...

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