At a total loss - Where next?

yop

Hi,
43 yr old male. Height 1.83 meters.

Current weight 97.5 kg, heaviest 101kg on week 1 of Jan, lightest this year 93.2kg in April.
I've a job where I sit on my bum for min 8 hours per day but if I'm travelling it could be up to 14 hours.

Activity:
Lots of cycling. I'm racing this year. Have clocked up just under 5.000 kms this year. Spending up to 9 hours a week on the bike.
I also play some football.

Background:
All my family are "Big boned", my Da is north of 20 stone, 2 brothers north of 17, sisters probably the same or more.
I've always carried weight, though most would tell me I look closer to 85kg by my build etc etc.

Food wise:
I use myfitnesspal, have done for probably 3 years. I weigh and log everything! Its embarrassing at this stage.

I got a test done there few months back to see how many cals I expect to burn in a rest state (2200) and the breakdown (30% fat, 70% carbs).

On the days I don't train I eat around 1800 cals.
On the days I train I eat 2200-2400 depending. Yesterday I did 70km for example and I ate 2400 cals.
Its porridge breakfast, 2-3 eggs, coffee.
Lunch can be chicken breast/prawns/fish with 150 grams of cooked rice and a mix of veg or corn or beans or stirfry.

Tea then would be a big mixed salad, tine of tuna, rye bread.

Yesterday and Saturday I did have a 99 with my kids. I had done 2 hours of hill repeats on Saturday, so I thought it wouldn't kill me

I drink 3 litres of water per day.

I have 4 coffees.


At this stage I don't know what to do or where to go. It really gets me down as visually and in my clothes I look like a very over weight person for my height.
I've tried fat burners, probiotics, kale tablets etc to speed things up.

Directionless and feeling v hopeless.

Diceicle

Are you still drinking?
Have you taken a good look at the macros ?

Macy0161

If you are really tracking as accurately as you say (and including absolutely everything, accurately*), I would perhaps talk to your GP? As it is just calories in v calories out.

Any blow out days - are you tracking them, and if so, how does the week view look on mfp? Still in the green?

At my current weight at 73kg, my "mainly seated" maintenance calories is 2416, not taking into account exercise.

*maybe double check some of your staple mfp entries for accuracy too? I know I keep picking from "history" - if there was something in there that was wrong, it'd be fecking up my tracking for a long time.

is_that_so

How late do you eat?

runawaybishop

is_that_so wrote: »

How late do you eat?

Doesn't matter.


Op, you are not tracking something. Booze? Underestimating portion sizes?

What changed in April?

yop

yop wrote: »

.........................

Current weight 97.5 kg, heaviest 101kg on week 1 of Jan, lightest this year 93.2kg in April......................
.......................

On the days I don't train I eat around 1800 cals.
On the days I train I eat 2200-2400 depending. Yesterday I did 70km for example and I ate 2400 cals...............

I have 4 coffees.


.................

I don't think you are tracking intake accurately.
Do you weigh food?

You lost nearly 8kg Jan to April, that's a 60k kcal deficit

But you then gained 4kg April to now, that's a 30k kcal excess

If your tracked calories don't tally with that then you are doing it wrong.

Also, there's no way at 90 odd kg 2300kcals/day would sustain you......... I went from 105kg to 79kg on 2300kcals/day and I did nothing like the training you are describing.


Can you detail exactly what you ate yesterday to arrive at 2400kcals?

yop wrote: »

........... Yesterday I did 70km for example and I ate 2400 cals.
Its porridge breakfast, 2-3 eggs, coffee.
Lunch can be chicken breast/prawns/fish with 150 grams of cooked rice and a mix of veg or corn or beans or stirfry.

..........

40g porridfe made with water is 150kcals.
3 eggs are 300kcals
Coffee is 0 kcals (black, no sugar)

150g of rice is 500kcals.............. chicken breast/prawns/fish is fook knows what calories............ so too is a mix of veg or corn or beans or stirfry

colm_c

I've gone from 97kg in Jan to 79kg in June with a similar sedate office work.

If you count your calories correctly and staying under your calorie count, you will drop the weight.

The training should only accelerate this.

However, if you are boozing every weekend, then you will undo the entire week.

How did you test the resting calorie count?

yop

Hi All
Thanks for the rapid replies.
Ill answer the questions in turn.

Booze - I had 2 Heniken zero at barbecue last Friday.
Before that I had 4 Heineken Zero & 2 ciders on the 12th of May
Before that I had 4 guinness back on 12th April when I won a road race.

Eating timing:
Outside of Tues and Thurs, I eat usually at 8-9am for breakfast. Dinner around 1pm. I eat again around 6-7pm. I would eat fruit or nuts as snacks.
On Tues I am on the road early. But I eat at 7am. Dinner around 12. Eat again around 3 which is the large salad. When I get home around 8 its a bowl of malt wheaties or few cracker breads with turkey.

I weight EVERYTHING, thats the mad thing about it. I have a cycling coach and he demands it. He too is stumped by this.
I scan all the barcodes of anything new. I only eat brown pasta and rice.

Sunday - 2hrs 40 on the bike. 71 km, average speed 28 kmph.
Breakfast - 100 grams of dry porridge, added water, cooked, added 30ml of FF milk. Added 15g of honey. 1 black coffee.
On the bike - 1.5 litres of water. 1 Nakd - Peanut Delight Bar, 1 bar (1.24 oz)
Home:
Post spin
tesco - tinned corn, 91 gram
Heinz - Baked Beans (415g), 200 g
Rice - Brown, long-grain, cooked, 250 g
Deluxe - Carved Peppered Turkey Breast, 140 gram
Batts - Tomato and Chilli Chutney, 100 g

Dinner (2 hours later)
Shepards pie homemade. 200g of mash potatoe. 100g of lean mince meat.

Tea (7pm)
Eggs - Boiled Egg, 3 piece
Rowan Hill - Mediterranean Tortilla Wraps, 1 Wrap
Black coffee


Total eaten - 2,394 calories
306 g of carbs
71 g of fat
117 g of protein
2,247 g of sodium
85 g of sugar

TheBoyConor

Your portions are too big. That is it.

100g of dry porridge. WTF? That is way too much. 50g is plenty and 70g is a fine big portion.
15g of honey? That is basically just 15g of sugar. Cut it out.
You ate 415g of baked beans. That is a full tin. wtf?
200g of rice? That is two portions right there. two good portions.
3 eggs is a meal is too much.
Again, 200g of potatoes is too much in a portion.
Tortilla wraps are a no no. They are just carbs.

Get rid of the tortilla wraps and half all of the other items I mentioned.

You're messing around with cardio on that bike too.
You need to do some serious weight training to put on muscle that will raise your metabolism enough to burn those calories. Cycling, or any type of cardio for that matter, won't give you a good physique.

yop

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Your portions are too big. That is it.

You ate 415g of baked beans. That is a full tin. wtf?
200g of rice? That is two portions right there. two good portions.
3 eggs is a meal is too much.
Again, 200g of potatoes is too much in a portion.
Tortilla wraps are a no no. They are just carbs.

Get rid of the tortilla wraps and half all of the other items I mentioned.

You're messing around with cardio on that bike too.
You need to do some serious weight training to put on muscle that will raise your metabolism enough to burn those calories.

I ate 200g of beans.
200g of potatoes was cooked, mashed weight.

I'm a racer, I'm not messing around on the bike. They are focused structured bike sessions, they have to be done. Yesterday for example was 2 hours solid in zone 3 with sprint efforts for 30 seconds every 10 mins.
Saturday was 15 mins warm up, 15 cool down, with 7 min hill repeats up and down for the next 90 mins.

I'd be v interested to hear what replacements though for the beans and potatoes to get the cals up to 2400 for yesterday with the exercise I did.

Not saying your not right on the weights, I lifted weights for 10 years and I know what they can do, but I only put in my weight when I was lifting.

TheBoyConor

You're supposed to put on weight if you're lifting.

Are you looking for just weight loss or improved body composition, ie fat loss?

Because cardio is not great for either tbh. Intense cardio puts your body into a stress response which means it will want to hang on to calories and fat.

If you want to loose weight it is primarily diet that will do that.
200g of beans is still too much
200g of spuds is too much
200g of rice is too much
You dont need to replace with anything. Just half the portions.

runawaybishop

yop wrote: »

I ate 200g of beans.
200g of potatoes was cooked, mashed weight.

I'm a racer, I'm not messing around on the bike. They are focused structured bike sessions, they have to be done. Yesterday for example was 2 hours solid in zone 3 with sprint efforts for 30 seconds every 10 mins.
Saturday was 15 mins warm up, 15 cool down, with 7 min hill repeats up and down for the next 90 mins.

I'd be v interested to hear what replacements though for the beans and potatoes to get the cals up to 2400 for yesterday with the exercise I did.

Not saying your not right on the weights, I lifted weights for 10 years and I know what they can do, but I only put in my weight when I was lifting.

Your calorie calcs look right but if you are putting on weight you need to lower them. Drop the spuds and rice by 20-25%. The beans are relatively high in calories too.

Don't worry about getting your calories up to 2400, either you are eating more than 2400 or you need less than 2400 to lose fat. Either way cut your portion sizes a bit and see how you get on.

Strength work may increase weight, but will reduce fat. Muscle requires more calories also.

TheBoyConor

And you seem fixated on this 2.400 calories. Don't mind what anyone or some app tells you you need to consume calorie wise to lose weight. That is only guesswork and estimations. Your best measure is obervations - you are eating 2.400kcls and not loosing weight, so you are eating too much. Reduce your calorie intake accordingly.

yop

Ok, so this was one day, when I was on the bike for nearly 3 hours. So maybe the numbers for yesterday are taken as my normal day.
2400 is only on days that I would be on the bike that long.
On days I'm 1-1.5 hours Ill have 2200 cals.

So for the days I'm not training:
Flahavan's - Porridge Oats With Water, 75 g
Tesco full fat milk - Full Fat Milk, 20 ml

lunch
Rice - Brown, long-grain, cooked, 140 g
Home Grilled - Chicken Breast, 137 grams
Vegetables - Mixed Vegetables, 2.0 cup / 150 g

Dinner
Pasta - Brown - Cooked (Grams), 100 g
Vegetables - Mixed Vegetables, 2.0 cup / 150 g

Tea:
Ballymore Crust - Aldi - Simply Both Bread, 76 gram
Nakd - Peanut Delight Bar, 1 bar (1.24 oz)

1832 calories total.
253 g of carbs
54g of fat
102 g of protein
651 g of sodium

TheBoyConor

If you are exercising as much as you say and still not losing weight, then it is as simple as this - you are consuming more calories than you are expending. Pull back on the calories, especially the carbs. 200 and 140g portions of carbs is excessive. Rice/porridge and spud should around 80g tops.

TheBoyConor

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Your portions are too big. That is it.

100g of dry porridge. WTF? That is way too much. 50g is plenty and 70g is a fine big portion.
......

2400kcals total though so portion size isn't an issue.

100g porridge is 375kcals.....not a madly high in cals breakfast.

OP....i can't fathom what's going on...Eating 2300kcals/day I lose about 1.5lbs/week. I'm 83kg ... my maintenance kcals are 3000kcals/day.

colm_c

yop wrote: »

Ok, so this was one day, when I was on the bike for nearly 3 hours. So maybe the numbers for yesterday are taken as my normal day.
2400 is only on days that I would be on the bike that long.
On days I'm 1-1.5 hours Ill have 2200 cals.

So for the days I'm not training:
Flahavan's - Porridge Oats With Water, 75 g
Tesco full fat milk - Full Fat Milk, 20 ml

lunch
Rice - Brown, long-grain, cooked, 140 g
Home Grilled - Chicken Breast, 137 grams
Vegetables - Mixed Vegetables, 2.0 cup / 150 g

Dinner
Pasta - Brown - Cooked (Grams), 100 g
Vegetables - Mixed Vegetables, 2.0 cup / 150 g

Tea:
Ballymore Crust - Aldi - Simply Both Bread, 76 gram
Nakd - Peanut Delight Bar, 1 bar (1.24 oz)

1832 calories total.
253 g of carbs
54g of fat
102 g of protein
651 g of sodium

Still seems like a high amount of food tbh.

Are you including things like butter, condiments or snacks?

How are you weighting yourself? Every day? Same time?

To lose weight, you need to be on a 500 cal deficit for a sustained period of time.

Also agree with the weight training, helps massively to burn more calories.

yop

TheBoyConor wrote: »

If you are exercising as much as you say and still not losing weight, then it is as simple as this - you are consuming more calories than you are expending. Pull back on the calories, especially the carbs. 200 and 140g portions of carbs is excessive. Rice/porridge and spud should around 80g tops.

Yup definitely exercising. Ill send you my Strava links if u want.

Worth a try and see what happens.

Cheers

yop

Augeo wrote: »

2400kcals total though so portion size isn't an issue.

100g porridge is 375kcals.....not a madly high in cals breakfast.

OP....i can't fathom what's going on...Eating 2300kcals/day I lose about 1.5lbs/week. I'm 83kg ... my maintenance kcals are 3000kcals/day.

Thanks, hence why I am here trying to see if anyone has the same weirdness!

I have a fairly senior job, pretty stressful so thats a possibility.

When you say x grams of porridge cooked is that wet weight?

Weigh your pasta, rice & porridge dry...the nutritional info is the dry weight.

40g porridge made with water is 150kcals....the 40g is the dry weight though.

yop

Augeo wrote: »

When you say x grams of porridge cooked is that wet weight?

Weigh your pasta, rice & porridge dry...the nutritional info is the dry weight.

40g porridge made with water is 150kcals....the 40g is the dry weight though.

Porridge is dry.
Rice is cooked. Maybe I need to change that.

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

....

You lost nearly 8kg Jan to April, that's a 60k kcal deficit

But you then gained 4kg April to now, that's a 30k kcal excess

If your tracked calories don't tally with that then you are doing it wrong.
...

Did your tracked calories correlate with the weight gain and loss in these periods?

yop

yop wrote: »

Porridge is dry.
Rice is cooked. Maybe I need to change that.

All has to be dry..... 90g dry rice is 300kcals when cooked (boiled in water).

But you are undercounting kcals if measuring it wet/cooked I would think.

TheBoyConor

yop wrote: »

Yup definitely exercising. Ill send you my Strava links if u want.

Worth a try and see what happens.

Cheers

No thanks. But what I will say is you are getting too hung up on numbers and measurements. You are missing the point.
You should let your progress or lack of dictate your diet. not what some app on your phone is telling you.

I have never counted calories or used an app. It's all bull. I just listen to and watch what my body is telling me. I eat big and lift bigger. If I don't progress I up my eating. If I see I've added fat, I pull back on calories and keep going.

That's the sort of body feedback you need to follow, not apps or calorie lists.

You are exercising and not losing weight. Your body is telling you that you you have an excessive calorie intake. Listen to your body. Then adjust your diet.

No-one wants to see you calorie excel sheets or your strava links dude.

TheBoyConor

Augeo wrote: »

All has to be dry..... 90g dry rice is 300kcals when cooked (boiled in water).

But you are undercounting kcals if measuring it wet/cooked I would think.

Massively undercounting.
100g of dry rice or porridge probably turns into 250g when cooked.
OP is seriously overdoing the carbs.

ED E

Are you mid season at the minute?

You're going to have to cut the diet back a bit. This may hamper performance until you get to your new "normal". Up to you whether you decide to postpone this until later in the year. Its harder to burn calories in turbo season though.



NB: Cyclist, not as active as you (3600K), slightly taller, gone from 88 to under 80.

yop

Augeo wrote: »

Did your tracked calories correlate with the weight gain and loss in these periods?

Augeo wrote: »

All has to be dry..... 90g dry rice is 300kcals when cooked (boiled in water).

But you are undercounting kcals if measuring it wet/cooked I would think.

Thanks.
Ok Ill change tact on the weighing of the potatoes, rice and pasta.


I have extracted all this out to excel, putting in sleeping patterns ( I have a garmin watch which tracks steps, sleep, stress etc), and all that.
I've an engineering background, so numbers are my thing!

But I'm head scraching.

Lets start with the smaller portions and the weighted of dry food and see.

Thanks

ED E

TheBoyConor wrote: »

OP is seriously overdoing the carbs.

For cycling its not major, a slight cut back should be all it takes. Carb load before, 2:1 sugars during is standard operating procedure.

yop

ED E wrote: »

Are you mid season at the minute?

You're going to have to cut the diet back a bit. This may hamper performance until you get to your new "normal". Up to you whether you decide to postpone this until later in the year. Its harder to burn calories in turbo season though.



NB: Cyclist, not as active as you (3600K), slightly taller, gone from 88 to under 80.

I am, averaging 1 race per week. In the mix for 2 competitions so worried the affect of a massive carb drop with impact performance then. Need the 50gs of carbs per hour to push the pedals.

Wow! Do u stop eating at all!!!

If numbers are your thing...

Was there a 60k kcal deficit to explain the 8kg loss?
Was there a 30k kcal excess to explain the 4kg gain?

TheBoyConor

I'm an engineer too during the day but it's not all about numbers and excel sheets for calories. With my fitness and training I am very much of the "fly by the seat of the pants" school. I have never counted a calorie or used an app and I went from a wirey 68 kg and I am now nearing 80kg.

At the end of the day man, you are simply eating too much. Cut back.

I have to go get ready for gym now. best of luck.