Incident at Lost Lane on Saturday

end of the road

Bonniedog wrote: »

It's not my hang up at all. The left liberal narrative here is that if you are black then even if you do bad stuff - which they barely acknowledge anyway - then it is not your fault. Blame it on slavery or some such bollox which in the context of Nigerians and Kenyans and others is more likely to mean that your ancestors were slavers rather than slaves.

Ebun joseph's father worked for the Nigerian federal government during the Biafran war when the federal army murdered millions. And yet she comes here bullying imbeciles into thinking she's some sort of fkn victim. From one of the nastiest most corrupt ruling elites on the planet.

no, it's not the left liberal narrative, either here or anywhere.
yes, certainly a small number on the left may believe what you state above, but for most people, while there may be some mitagating factors in terms of why a crime may be committed, they do not excuse the crime or mean one should be relieved of being punished for it.
rather they are about insuring targeted intervention surrounding those factors.
but once again, the individual still remains responsible for their crime.

Pkiernan wrote: »

Any criminal that can be deported legally should be and must be.

How could any normal person disagree with this?

as i said, they already are, it's just not going to be reported on the news as it's not a big issue.
i don't know anyone who has an issue with criminals being deported as long as the process is fair and the deportation takes place within a reasonable timeframe, as in straight after their sentence once they have been given sufficient notice of their deportation so they can appeal and put forward their case.

Bonniedog

end of the road wrote: »

no, it's not the left liberal narrative, either here or anywhere.


a.

Perhaps not for you, but it is certainly the dominant narrative on the liberal left, which because the old left no longer has an alternative economic model, encompasses every party in Dáil on "social issues". With exception of aontú solely on abortion.

Malcolm X despised the attitude that crime could be excused by past or even present oppression. When white liberals were excusing rampant crime in Harlem which was escalating as heroin became rife in early 1960s, Malcolm and others took on the drug dealers. Drugs was then of course very much a part of deviant left culture.

joe Higgins tried to incite racial unrest in Dublin 15 when an African chap was killed during an altercation with other local yokes, after there had been a mugging carried out by a gang of which the African chap was part.

Higgins was either deeply cyncial enough to distort this for political gain. Or deeply stupid. or both.

Anyway, same attitudes still prevail, and for same reasons across the "left."

Omackeral

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I agree but the vast majority of the group in this case are Irish & have never lived in another country.

Most non Irish that go through the prison system get deported on competition of their sentence. They get escorted from the prison by immigration detectives

First I’ve heard of this. Serving prison officer 12 years.

AlekSmart

Omackeral wrote: »

First I’ve heard of this. Serving prison officer 12 years.

Perhaps because it's not happening ?

Omackeral

AlekSmart wrote: »

Perhaps because it's not happening ?

Well yeah that’s what I was subtly suggesting. The only case it happens is if people arrive in this country without passports, they are detained for a short period and then escorted by GNIB. The post saying the majority of non nationals get deported straight from prison is a statement of fiction.

Bonniedog

Omackeral wrote: »

First I’ve heard of this. Serving prison officer 12 years.

No one is deported straight after release. Among the very few who are there are prolonged taxpayer funded appeals to get the scum to stay here.

The Bohs/Waterford gang rapist wasn't even sentenced and was taken on by Waterford to play LOI after he had gotten a derisory suspended sentence.

He only left the country when he got job with a Vietnamese club.

AlekSmart

Brian? wrote: »

So people's feelings trump facts now? That's an interesting take on it.

Only if one is engaged in some form of competition ?

Reading the details of the affray,and taking into account the careers and service of the two quoted witnesses,most reasonable people would use those opinions to add some depth to their own understanding of the factors that drove this savagery,surely a desireable part of human response ?....not to mention "interesting" as well...... Yes ?

Eric Cartman

Omackeral wrote: »

Well yeah that’s what I was subtly suggesting...

Why does everyone have to make up blatant lies to pretend we have a functioning immigration system or that theres benefits of non EU migrants.

Literally every poster with a positive anecdote or trying to downplay the negative impacts has told an easily unraveled lie.

There is no good faith concrete argument to take anyone from outside the EU it seems.

AlekSmart

Omackeral wrote: »

Well yeah that’s what I was subtly suggesting. The only case it happens is if people arrive in this country without passports, they are detained for a short period and then escorted by GNIB. The post saying the majority of non nationals get deported straight from prison is a statement of fiction.

Damn !! caught out by the subtlety bug again Grrrrr :mad:

But it does underline the pressing need for more GNIB resources,particularly given the somewhat interesting situation which will develop post Brexit ?

Donald Trump

Bonniedog wrote: »

It's not my hang up at all. The left liberal narrative here is that if you are black then even if you do bad stuff - which they barely acknowledge anyway - then it is not your fault. Blame it on slavery or some such bollox which in the context of Nigerians and Kenyans and others is more likely to mean that your ancestors were slavers rather than slaves.

Ebun joseph's father worked for the Nigerian federal government during the Biafran war when the federal army murdered millions. And yet she comes here bullying imbeciles into thinking she's some sort of fkn victim. From one of the nastiest most corrupt ruling elites on the planet.

Was it not pointed out ("alleged") about her that her ancestors were a very "wealthy family" in the state where the main economic activity was trading slaves? (i.e. as recent as her grandfather bought and sold them)? Or was that someone else?


Didn't the British abolish it officially there but it still persisted there well into to 20th century in some parts due to blind eyes being turned because of "tradition"


Anyway, gangs of fellas trying to storm a nightclub isn't exactly a common thing in Dublin. Yes there are always skangers but it doesn't mean you have to allow a free for all.

Omackeral

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Why does everyone have to make up blatant lies to pretend we have a functioning immigration system or that theres benefits of non EU migrants.

My question is why was the post thanked twice?

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

There is no good faith concrete argument to take anyone from outside the EU it seems.

Oh, I could... but I'd be shouted down because I'd be promoting certain regions or culture groups over others. Irrespective of the statistical evidence that shows their greater benefits to the host nations.

Eric Cartman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh, I could... but I'd be shouted down because I'd be promoting certain regions or culture groups over others. Irrespective of the statistical evidence that shows their greater benefits to the host nations.

The chinese, a great bunch of lads

Bonniedog

Donald Trump wrote: »

Was it not pointed out ("alleged") about her that her ancestors were a very "wealthy family" in the state where the main economic activity was trading slaves? (i.e. as recent as her grandfather bought and sold them)? Or was that someone else?


.

Don't know about the slavery part although according to Slavery Index there are well over a million slaves in Nigeria. Apart from those trafficked into Europe as prostitutes, it is apparently common for the elite from which Joseph originates to have "house servants" usually young girls bought or taken from northern villages. https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/data/country-data/nigeria/

Interestingly when someone published an article including all of the above, one of her UCD chums suggested her kicking up the usual fuss. Strangely, Dr. Ebun said nowt ...

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The chinese, a great bunch of lads

huh?

Isn't that a reference to the manner of their governance, and the beliefs of the Chinese who live in China, rather than those who migrate abroad?

Still... I could point to a wide variety of nationalities who "generally" do very well in western nations.

Eric Cartman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

huh?

Isn't that a reference to the manner of their governance, and the beliefs of the Chinese who live in China, rather than those who migrate abroad?

Still... I could point to a wide variety of nationalities who "generally" do very well in western nations.

Well in general, while they dont really integrate, people from east asia rarely cause problems here and have a strong work ethic. Ive never seen threads started about chinese gangs or violence.

Wibbs

As a demographic they also illustrate how "we must do more about integration and that will solve our woes" is hopelessly simplistic. Same for the Indian diaspora, the Malay and others.

Donald Trump

Bonniedog wrote: »

Don't know about the slavery part although according to Slavery Index there are well over a million slaves in Nigeria. Apart from those trafficked into Europe as prostitutes, it is apparently common for the elite from which Joseph originates to have "house servants" usually young girls bought or taken from northern villages. https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/data/country-data/nigeria/

Interestingly when someone published an article including all of the above, one of her UCD chums suggested her kicking up the usual fuss. Strangely, Dr. Ebun said nowt ...

Here is a bbc an article about a Nigerian writer excusing the fact that her ancestor bought and sold slaves because...

Nwaubani Ogogo lived in a time when the fittest survived and the bravest excelled. The concept of "all men are created equal" was completely alien to traditional religion and law in his society.



It would be unfair to judge a 19th Century man by 21st Century principles.


Assessing the people of Africa's past by today's standards would compel us to cast the majority of our heroes as villains, denying us the right to fully celebrate anyone who was not influenced by Western ideology.


Igbo slave traders like my great-grandfather did not suffer any crisis of social acceptance or legality. They did not need any religious or scientific justifications for their actions. They were simply living the life into which they were raised.

On the other hand, Irish people have to put up with shite and excuses for some some prick acting the scumbag because he happens to be black. Load of bollix.





By the way, the article states that it was still going on there in the 1950's

Acclaimed Igbo historian Adiele Afigbo described the slave trade in south-eastern Nigeria which lasted until the late 1940s and early 1950s as one of the best kept secrets of the British colonial administration.


While the international trade ended, the local trade continued.

Fall_Guy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Why does everyone have to make up blatant lies to pretend we have a functioning immigration system or that theres benefits of non EU migrants.

Literally every poster with a positive anecdote or trying to downplay the negative impacts has told an easily unraveled lie.

There is no good faith concrete argument to take anyone from outside the EU it seems.

Let's say that there is absolutely no benefit to having any African immigrants / asylum seekers allowed into Ireland. Let's say it has nothing but a negative impact on our society as a whole.

Seeing as you have already given plenty of reasons as to why living in Ireland is immeasurably better than living in many parts of Africa, do you not see any moral obligation for us as a nation to give a certain number of people the opportunity to live in a country with better prospects of a decent life? Not completely open doors, but a certain number.

No one chooses the conditions into which they are born, its by virtue of nothing more than winning the global birth lottery that we were born in a country which, despite its imperfections, allows the vast majority of us to live very privileged lives, in global terms.

Do we have the right to just say "tough ****" to every single person who we feel is unlikely to contribute positively to our society (whether that belief is right or wrong, I'm not arguing)? I'm not talking about people who may be deemed tangible security threats at the time of their attempts to seek asylum here, just people who you feel are unlikely to make upward social moves, may have children who are involved in antisocial behaviour down the line etc...

Eric Cartman

Fall_Guy wrote: »

Let's say that there is absolutely no benefit to having any African immigrants / asylum seekers allowed into Ireland. Let's say it has nothing but a negative impact on our society as a whole.

Seeing as you have already given plenty of reasons as to why living in Ireland is immeasurably better than living in many parts of Africa, do you not see any moral obligation for us as a nation to give a certain number of people the opportunity to live in a country with better prospects of a decent life? Not completely open doors, but a certain number.

No one chooses the conditions into which they are born, its by virtue of nothing more than winning the global birth lottery that we were born in a country which, despite its imperfections, allows the vast majority of us to live very privileged lives, in global terms.

Do we have the right to just say "tough ****" to every single person who we feel is unlikely to contribute positively to our society (whether that belief is right or wrong, I'm not arguing)? I'm not talking about people who may be deemed tangible security threats at the time of their attempts to seek asylum here, just people who you feel are unlikely to make upward social moves, may have children who are involved in antisocial behaviour down the line etc...

Our country owes its success to its natives building and working hard to elevate our society to that level, all someone has to do to come in legally is personally prove themselves by getting an education, avoiding crime and learning to integrate and behave by our rules, the opportunity to work for a better life is there for them.

The illegal migrants just want a free ticket to welfare and want to bring cultures and behaviours over here that have no place in Ireland and could decrease the quality of live for natives.

This is not a case of ‘fool me once’ , weve got the hard data to prove it doesnt work, the experiment is over, shut the door.

Bonniedog

Donald Trump wrote: »

Here is a bbc an article about a Nigerian writer excusing the fact that her ancestor bought and sold slaves because...






On the other hand, Irish people have to put up with shite and excuses for some some prick acting the scumbag because he happens to be black. Load of bollix.





By the way, the article states that it was still going on there in the 1950's

The elites who took over from the Brits tended to be the old collaborationist tribes and classes. and bear in mind that colonialism only lasted around a century in most African countries. So it can hardly be a get out of jail card for infinity.

Anyway, that race baiting Democrat in Milwaukee Omar is from a Somali slave owning tribe. And her father or grandfather was one of the ruling elite put into power by the Brits when they left. They were overthrown by that lunatic Barré which is how her tribe became refugees.

Fall_Guy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Our country owes its success to its natives building and working hard to elevate our society to that level, all someone has to do to come in legally is personally prove themselves by getting an education, avoiding crime and learning to integrate and behave by our rules, the opportunity to work for a better life is there for them.

The illegal migrants just want a free ticket to welfare and want to bring cultures and behaviours over here that have no place in Ireland and could decrease the quality of live for natives.

This is not a case of ‘fool me once’ , weve got the hard data to prove it doesnt work, the experiment is over, shut the door.

Whatever you attribute our country's success to, you didn't choose to be born here. You certainly didn't contribute anything meaningful to the historic development of the country. You are the beneficiary of being born in a wealthy country.

You are no more responsible for your relative success in life than you would be to blame for a lack of "success" in life if you had been born into different conditions in a different part of the world. Nice and all as it is to think, we aren't all self-made men who are the authors of our own destiny, most of what's gets us to where we are in life is things we had no choice over (place of birth, genetics, parents, socio-economic background, relationships during our lives, positive or adverse childhood experiences, yada yada yada...)

If there were no immigrants or asylum seekers in Ireland there would still be a large number of people who are born into positions of disadvantage and who for the most part, stay at the same point on the social ladder generation after generation. Does that mean the experiment of social democracy has failed?

Fall_Guy

Fall_Guy wrote: »

Do we have the right to just say "tough ****" to every single person who we feel is unlikely to contribute positively to our society (whether that belief is right or wrong, I'm not arguing)? I'm not talking about people who may be deemed tangible security threats at the time of their attempts to seek asylum here, just people who you feel are unlikely to make upward social moves, may have children who are involved in antisocial behaviour down the line etc...

Yes, except we are prioritizing those immigrants over the poorest members of our own society, whose problems with education, housing, etc haven't been resolved, and in fact, are progressively getting worse. Think of the Irish children who need to beg in order to have adequate clothes to go to school..?

Rather than look to the problems within Irish society, and resolve them, you would like for Ireland to bring in a new underclass, many of whom will need substantial financial supports to give them a lifestyle even remotely comparable with the average Irish person.. because the focus is not giving these migrants the life of the lowest, but the life of the average.. So, why are we not focusing on our own poor, and vulnerable in the same way?

Yup, I can tug on supposed emotional heart strings too.

Eric Cartman

Fall_Guy wrote: »

Whatever you attribute our country's success to, you didn't choose to be born here. You certainly didn't contribute anything meaningful to the historic development of the country. You are the beneficiary of being born in a wealthy country.

You are no more responsible for your relative success in life than you would be to blame for a lack of "success" in life if you had been born into different conditions in a different part of the world. Nice and all as it is to think, we aren't all self-made men who are the authors of our own destiny, most of what's gets us to where we are in life is things we had no choice over (place of birth, genetics, parents, socio-economic background, relationships during our lives, positive or adverse childhood experiences, yada yada yada...)

If there were no immigrants or asylum seekers in Ireland there would still be a large number of people who are porn into positions of disadvantage and who for the most part, stay at the same point on the social ladder generation after generation. Does that mean the experiment of social democracy has failed?

No, but considering we still have citizens who do not thrive in these great conditions, it is only right to expect somebody from even worse conditions with none of the advantages in upbringing will thrive here. Therefore considering the burden we already have in looking after our own, allowing in more people who have a high chance of being state dependent is at best foolish, at worst destructive

Your Face

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Well in general, while they dont really integrate, people from east asia rarely cause problems here and have a strong work ethic. Ive never seen threads started about chinese gangs or violence.

Just because threads on certain subjects dont get started on boards doesn't mean these problems dont exist.


There has been problems for decades with Chinese gang crime.

Sleeper12

Omackeral wrote: »

First I’ve heard of this. Serving prison officer 12 years.

I know you are. But is is fact. I think you are in the Joy & probably not too many international drug smugglers in there. Even if there are a few, they aren't usually released from there. They end up is open prison. Most of these smugglers go to Cloverhill on remand. Then they are offered to come back after conviction. So they serve most of the sentence in a remand prison. I'm sure if you ask around on the job someone will tell you about it. Because they don't know any Irish people they give them jobs on reception handing out prisoners clothes or cleaning out visiting area after visits. They are on a separate wing. This cuts down on the risk of Irish people getting to them & talking them into passing drugs through the prison. With about 18 months left in their sentence they get transferred to Loughlan House. On release they are brought to Dublin airport where they are deported. This is fact & happens every few days or weeks. There are detectives in emigration who spend a lot of time on planes bringing these home.
Edit: I don't know about now but certainly 10 years ago there was another special wing in Cloverhill for people they were going to deport.

Eric Cartman

Your Face wrote: »

Just because threads on certain subjects dont get started on boards doesn't mean these problems dont exist.


There has been problems for decades with Chinese gang crime.

In Ireland ? What problems.

Also yet again lovely to see the only defense of problem country immigrants is the ‘well these others do it too’

Your Face

Your Face wrote: »

Just because threads on certain subjects dont get started on boards doesn't mean these problems dont exist.


There has been problems for decades with Chinese gang crime.

Yup. Australia falls within the circle of the Triads, as does the US. What Chinese gang crime is ongoing in Ireland?

There is always going to be some crime from nationalities. However, in terms of migration to a host nation, the Chinese do extremely well in Western nations, whereas other nationalities don't. Nor do we often see disorder within society from their children, which we can see happen from other nationalities. Nor do we see the demands for state supports, and a need for them to gain special recognition as victims..

Your Face

Eric Cartman wrote: »

In Ireland ? What problems.

Also yet again lovely to see the only defense of problem country immigrants is the ‘well these others do it too’

In Ireland yes.

Chinese gangs are involved in people trafficking, drug trafficking, protection rackets and close connections with international cartels.

Its somewhat surprising that you are ignorant of this, seeing as you're expert on everything else.

Eric Cartman

Your Face wrote: »

In Ireland yes.

Chinese gangs are involved in people trafficking, drug trafficking, protection rackets and close connections with international cartels.

Its somewhat surprising that you are ignorant of this, seeing as you're expert on everything else.

When is the last few times a chinese person was arrested for such things here, genuine question as I have no recollection of ever seeing stories about these things.