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556 ammo vs 223 Rem

  • 05-07-2019 5:46pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭ john jameson


    Hi members on looking for heavier plinking ammo I messaged tannyoky included in the short list was 62gr soft point 556. I asked if 556 was safe to use in 223 rem an I was told that it "just runs a little higher pressure" and that they have sold " thousands of them"
    My question is have any members used 556 in any of there 223 rem and if so how did ya get on... my tikkais the heavy varmint barrel with an 8 twist it may handle them just fine but not sure any advice appreciated...


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭ alanmc


    I wouldn't use 5.56 in my 223 unless 5.56 was stamped on the receiver specifically.

    Just because of the higher pressure .... and it's my face.


  • Registered Users Posts: 758 ✭✭✭ freddieot


    I agree with Alanmc

    Generally 223 in 556 is okay but not the other way around. Higher pressure..

    That said it depends on the rifle as some guns can take both. I had an H&K SL8 in 223 that would take 556. The reason I know for certain - I asked H&K.

    Personally I would not be putting any round into a rifle of a calibre that is not printed on the side unless you check with the manufacturers first. You only grow one face.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    Unless your rifle is stamped 5.56 NATO then under no circumstances use 5.56 ammo in it.

    223 Ammo can be safely used in 5.56 NATO chambered rifles but the opposite is not so.

    Not only is the 5.56 loaded 'hotter' - more propellant then its civilian counterparts, the over all dimension of the 5.56 chamber is different allowing for and more importantly being able for higher working pressures.

    This is an easy Google search with plenty of bona fide resources to explain and confirm this topic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,177 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    Aside from it being unsafe, would you be breaking the law by being in possession of 5.56 when the licence says .223? I'd guess so.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    ...... I was told that it "just runs a little higher pressure" ......
    Little disingenuous.

    The 5.56 is usually made to NATO spec (its why it's called a NATO round) and is usually "hotter" than your standard 223 round and as such it has much higher pressure than the 223.

    There are other, subtle, differences. The 5,56 has a slightly different shoulder to the 223, and the freebore or leade on a 5.56 rifle is usally a little more than a 223 rifle.

    What that all means. A 5.56 round in a 223 rifle would produce about 15,000 psi more than a 223 round. The round is "longer" than the 223 and hence the free bore is lessened which can increase pressure even more, and because the case (of 5.56) has not the room to expand properly in a 223 all this can lead to catastrophic failure of the rifle. Best case, and by best i mean non life threatening, is the case gets stuck in your barrel, but as a rule it's best to just not shoot them (5.56) in a 223 rifle).

    In case all that is TL:DR do you potentially want this:



    In the reverses (223 in a 5.56) its all the opposite. The 223 has loads of free bore, less pressure, more room to expand, etc. Meaning the 223 can be safely fired from any 5.56 rifle. The only issue is most 5.56 rifles are fast twist rate which are designed to fire a very specific bullet (usually 62-64gr with the occasional 77gr thrown in) and so anything other than these bullets will result in poor performance.
    and that they have sold " thousands of them"
    Doesn't answer you're question though, does it? Selling thousands is not an answer to did anyone loose a face, finger or gun because of using the wrong answer.

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    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    You need a ".223Wylde" to fire both cals no problem. Would say proably 95% of .223s are this cal these days.But as usual.Read the fricken manual,ask the company if it is safe to do so.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Wylde_chamber

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    .................. ask the company if it is safe to do so.
    Except Remington, cause they just won't give you a straight answer. I contacted them a while back because my 223 was rated for both 223 and 5.56 and just to be 100% sure i said i'd ask.

    Between "you can if you want" and "it's your decision" i never got a yes or no from them.

    Have shot both, as the rifle is actually stamped for both, but i love how in our Tort orientated world nobody will say anything with conviction for fear of losing their arse on it. :rolleyes::D

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 801 ✭✭✭ ejg


    I thought CIP pressure is the same between 5.56 and 223. Saami might have a difference. I think a problem might arise if one has a very early 223 rifle that was made for 50-55gr ammo. More modern rifles are all as far as I know chambered for at least up to 75gr factory ammo.
    European rifles are proofed after CIP, I would have no issue putting 5.56 through my T3. Another point is that most Mil ammo is not loaded as hot as they say. They might be at higher pressure when fired out of a very hot full auto rifle. Any 223 ammo would have the same issue.
    edi


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    Except Remington, cause they just won't give you a straight answer. I contacted them a while back because my 223 was rated for both 223 and 5.56 and just to be 100% sure i said i'd ask.

    Between "you can if you want" and "it's your decision" i never got a yes or no from them.

    Have shot both, as the rifle is actually stamped for both, but i love how in our Tort orientated world nobody will say anything with conviction for fear of losing their arse on it. :rolleyes::D

    You could try DPMS on this as well?Remington "badge engineered" our rifles from DPMS in contract,and bar the paint job and Remingtons shoddy quality control,they are identical.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭ john jameson


    Thanks for all the feed back lads..I wont be running 556 in my tikka after watching a video by gun blue on you tube who explained why you should NOT and went through it in great detail the bottom line was NO!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 801 ✭✭✭ ejg


    Best is to actually research it, maybe even ask a proof house. Lots of BS on the net about 5.56/223. Remember our rifles, even US made rifles must be built to CIP standards and are tested to CIP standards not US standards. 223/5.56 have the same CIP pressure rating. Even the mighty 5.56 NATO must fit in a magazine... they are not wildcats. When ammo is supplied to forces they must fit in all rifles not only custom chambers..., run at all temperatures, they are not loaded to the ragged edge. CIP measures pressure in Bar not PSI.
    edi


  • Registered Users Posts: 441 ✭✭ jb88


    A lot of barrels have it stamped on the side what ammo to use.
    If its a .223 wylde as most barrels are today, there should not be a problem with most ammo unless it is defective.

    There have been cases with a lot of 75g Hornady ammo where you have head disintegration after the round is fired which is not good for target shooting, thats a manufacturing problem. The round fired but guys spotting the shooter could see the rd actually break apart about 150 yards out of the barrel and as a result no part of the bullet hit the target at 300 yards

    There are a lot of guys firing 80g Berger bullets in .223 out to 600 yards but GGG 77gr bullets I think they are called are excellent for this form of shooting.

    If your worried about a round in the chamber check with the barrel manufacturer and ammo manufacturer before you make any purchases to be on the safe side.
    If your still worried after that opt for a different round.


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