Poor Me, Poor Me... Vulture Funds etc...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

amcalester wrote: »

No, by we I mean the people of Ireland. The Government merely act on our behalf, ownership rests with the state i.e. the people.

Can't tell if serious, but I lolled anyway

Wheety

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Yes absolutely they can get the most money for them. Throw in a few along with some doozies.

Suppose for banks, they make most of their profit on mortgages in the first few years as that's where the interest payments are huge. They could then sell it off at a small discount on the the balance still owed and then lend that money to someone else.

So can they just sell an up to date loan like that? And then the new owners of your debt can say 'we're increasing your interest from 2.9% to 4%'?

GreeBo

Hal3000 wrote: »

By we you mean the Government of Ireland. Last time I checked I don't have any ownership of any of the banks, but my taxes paid for it.

You dont have ownership of any of the things your taxes pay for.

suicide_circus

I have a relation who works in insolvency (which is a harrowing and thankless job) and i can tell you two things;

1. Financial institutions are unbelievably patient with people who dont pay their mortgage and fear the bad PR that comes from repossession to a ludicrous level

2. There are a huge amount of piss takers gaming the system. People who know when to engage, when to play dumb and how to force delay for years and years.

MacDanger

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The vulture funds aren't going to demolish the houses so it won't lead to more homelessness.

That's something that irks me - when you hear about private landlords "being driven out of the market" and vulture funds taking over, it's as if the vulture funds don't intend to have anyone living in the houses they buy!!

The reason rents & prices are going up is because demand currently exceeds supply, it has very little to do with who actually owns the property.

Guy:Incognito

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Do you know how many more homeless that could create?

None. Unless you reckon their plan is to buy the properties and leave them vacant forever.

ShlugEireann

I think it's despicable that they are allowed to be called "vulture" funds. Vultures make it sound like they're exploiting people and taking advantage of them.

I will never understand how people defend not paying a mortgage. You knew the terms and conditions when you signed up.
In arrears? Tough ****, move into a smaller house and pay a mortgage where you aren't in arrears.

I don't care if you lost your job. I don't care if you bought at the peak. We all live and die by our decisions. Some people make good decisions, some make bad.

By the way, if people can't restructure their mortgage or pay back extra during an economic boom and labour shortage then they never will. Get them out.

Mad_maxx

ShlugEireann wrote: »

I think it's despicable that they are allowed to be called "vulture" funds. Vultures make it sound like they're exploiting people and taking advantage of them.

I will never understand how people defend not paying a mortgage. You knew the terms and conditions when you signed up.
In arrears? Tough ****, move into a smaller house and pay a mortgage where you aren't in arrears.

I don't care if you lost your job. I don't care if you bought at the peak. We all live and die by our decisions. Some people make good decisions, some make bad.

By the way, if people can't restructure their mortgage or pay back extra during an economic boom and labour shortage then they never will. Get them out.

Combination of two attitudes

1. Lack of personal responsibility - the banks - government shouldn't have allowed me to take out a mortgage

2. Sneaking regard for those who fiddle the system, considerably prevelent Irish trait.

You would be amazed at the number of people who think nothing of not paying various debts, it's not seen as anything close to theft which is exactly what it is

sbsquarepants

I think that people do need some kind of safety net from repossession - it's in no ones interest to have houses taken off families because they've missed 2 or 3 payments, but something like that simply doesn't happen in Ireland - you really need to fúck up badly to have "your" house taken off you.

If you haven't paid your mortgage in 5 years can you really be surprised you're being kicked out - come on now!

All the clowns cheering on this crazy "no consent, no sale" bill will be the very ones to demand something being done when the bank won't give their kids a mortgage in 10 years time. Just think about it - what kind of bank will loan a person hundreds of thousands which they can then just decide to not pay back with impunity - it's absolutely batshít crazy.

There are several reasons interest rates are so high in Ireland at a time of historically low ECB rates - but chief amongst them is it is so damn hard to do anything about a borrower who just doesn't want to pay, or can't pay (As has been stated already the distinction between those groups is entirely meaningless)

Go to Tesco - fill your trolley and walk out - what difference does it make legally if you had money but just didn't want to pay, or you wanted to pay but just didn't have money? None whatsoever, all that matters is that you didn't pay!

Mad_maxx

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I think that people do need some kind of safety net from repossession - it's in no ones interest to have houses taken off families because they've missed 2 or 3 payments, but something like that simply doesn't happen in Ireland - you really need to fúck up badly to have "your" house taken off you.

If you haven't paid your mortgage in 5 years can you really be surprised you're being kicked out - come on now!

All the clowns cheering on this crazy "no consent, no sale" bill will be the very ones to demand something being done when the bank won't give their kids a mortgage in 10 years time. Just think about it - what kind of bank will loan a person hundreds of thousands which they can then just decide to not pay back with impunity - it's absolutely batshít crazy.

There are several reasons interest rates are so high in Ireland at a time of historically low ECB rates - but chief amongst them is it is so damn hard to do anything about a borrower who just doesn't want to pay, or can't pay (As has been stated already the distinction between those groups is entirely meaningless)

Go to Tesco - fill your trolley and walk out - what difference does it make legally if you had money but just didn't want to pay, or you wanted to pay but just didn't have money? None whatsoever, all that matters is that you didn't pay!

Your tesco analogy crystallises the absurdity of it but we are a very immature nation in many ways

Gunmonkey

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Your tesco analogy crystallises the absurdity of it but we are a very immature nation in many ways

Not immature, we just glamourise "chancers" as some kind of new age Robin Hood stealing from the man and the establishment.

Kivaro

This topic was on the Tonight Show last night.
It was such a cry fest. Pierce Doherty from Sinn Fein was his usual self in defense of people who do not fulfill the terms of the legal contract that they willingly signed. The vast majority of us are paying our mortgages; but Sinn Fein and Fianna Fail want the 97% who are not engaging or who are in arrears for more than 4 years to keep their houses.
Sinn Fein should not be called the Shinners anymore ........... Whiners would be more an apt name. Crying all the time with no reasonable solutions to put in place as an alternative.

What concerned me most about the discussion last night was Fianna Fail's response on the topic. Every day they are becoming more like Sinn Fein in their responses ............ with their representative on the Tonight Show talking about the depression and possible suicides of mortgage defaulters. Such melodrama. Some mortgage holders who pay off their mortgages every month also have depression and possible suicidal notions.

Fine Gael = horrible corrupt party. Should not get our votes in the upcoming election.
Fianna Fail = the new Sinn Fein with them chasing the welfare/populist vote. Should not get our votes. Turning too left of centre.
Sinn Fein = constantly losing support and will continue to do so with their ludicrous social and economic policies. Their open border stance is also hurting them.
The other parties are abysmal. Just want to take from the working people in this country.

Looks like Independents are our only option now; at least until a new centre party is formed ........... a party that will represent the will of the vast majority of working/contributing people in this country.

dxhound2005

Kivaro wrote: »

This topic was on the Tonight Show last night.
It was such a cry fest. Pierce Doherty from Sinn Fein was his usual self in defense of people who do not fulfill the terms of the legal contract that they willingly signed. The vast majority of us are paying our mortgages; but Sinn Fein and Fianna Fail want the 97% who are not engaging or who are in arrears for more than 4 years to keep their houses.
Sinn Fein should not be called the Shinners anymore ........... Whiners would be more an apt name. Crying all the time with no reasonable solutions to put in place as an alternative.

What concerned me most about the discussion last night was Fianna Fail's response on the topic. Every day they are becoming more like Sinn Fein in their responses ............ with their representative on the Tonight Show talking about the depression and possible suicides of mortgage defaulters. Such melodrama. Some mortgage holders who pay off their mortgages every month also have depression and possible suicidal notions.

Fine Gael = horrible corrupt party. Should not get our votes in the upcoming election.
Fianna Fail = the new Sinn Fein with them chasing the welfare/populist vote. Should not get our votes. Turning too left of centre.
Sinn Fein = constantly losing support and will continue to do so with their ludicrous social and economic policies. Their open border stance is also hurting them.
The other parties are abysmal. Just want to take from the working people in this country.

Looks like Independents are our only option now; at least until a new centre party is formed ........... a party that will represent the will of the vast majority of working/contributing people in this country.

How closely did you examine the policies of the parties when coming to that conclusion? There are about 20 parties, with huge differences in policies. Independents have proved not to be any better than party politicians.

Potential-Monke

I'll never feel sorry for a family, or sole owner, of a property if they're being kicked out for non-payment. I had to give up my house and take a 20k hit when I could no longer afford mine. No one has the right to stay in something they're not paying for if there is money due. It's that simple.

Kivaro

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How closely did you examine the policies of the parties when coming to that conclusion? There are about 20 parties, with huge differences in policies. Independents have proved not to be any better than party politicians.

Independents are the best of a horrible lot until a new party is formed.

But I'm all ears for your suggestion of a political party that does not cater to the "entitled" members of our society or knee-jerks acquiesce to the shriek demands of the liberal left.

riclad

A vulture fund is a company that invests in property,
some new buildings would not exist unless we had companys
willing to buy 20- 30 per cent of apartment units before they are are built .
Builders cannot always just go to a bank and get 100 per cent finance of a new building and a site to build on.
Some units are pre sold to investors or private companys .
In 2018 there were 2100 new units built .
About 5000 apartments built in 2018 were not sold.
This data is from a sunday times article published last week.
The more expensive ones are still for sale.
Apartment blocks are expensive to build , there has to be common spaces and parking spaces built and lifts .
the days of local authority,s building 1000,s of houses in big estates
seem to be over .
The government seems to be mostly reliant on private companys
to solve the housing crisis .
Its like the people in private accomodation who stop paying rent,
people who do not pay the mortgage will be able to stay in the house for years until they are taken to court and evicted .
The banks choose to sell 1000,s of propertys at a discount
to private companys to write off bad loans .
On houses that were over valued in the boom before 2008.
I Think we are at the peak of house prices in dublin , builders cannot put up prices much more on new builds , as they are limited by the rules set by bank lending limits .

Gunmonkey

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Not immature, we just glamourise "chancers" as some kind of new age Robin Hood stealing from the man and the establishment.

Even better if “the man” is a faceless organisation with the nickname “vulture fund”.

Mad_maxx

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Not immature, we just glamourise "chancers" as some kind of new age Robin Hood stealing from the man and the establishment.

That's immature

is_that_so

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Yes absolutely they can get the most money for them. Throw in a few along with some doozies.

They can do both to sweeten the deal. The reason here is ECB directive to get down to 5% of loans as NPL.

is_that_so

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

But we, the people, do NOT benefit in anyway from the state owning or part owning the banks. Bankers and government ministers benefit, vulture funds benefit, developers who made millions, lost millions and had that debt written off, benefitted. We the people got fúck all.

A lot of those developers have gone now. The banks took the hit with knockdown rollup into NAMA of loans. We /The government/The state took stakes in the remaining pillar banks. They have paid a lot of money for the guarantees and have promised to pay back money lent to them.

mad muffin

MacDanger wrote: »

That's something that irks me - when you hear about private landlords "being driven out of the market" and vulture funds taking over, it's as if the vulture funds don't intend to have anyone living in the houses they buy!!

The reason rents & prices are going up is because demand currently exceeds supply, it has very little to do with who actually owns the property.

Yeah right.

The vulture funds are doing to Ireland what the big tech companies are doing to San Fran.

joe40

Hal3000 wrote: »

And how are you with the banks being bailed out when they had no money?

A Functioning banking system is necessary for a functioning economy to work. I don't know enough about banking to have an in depth knowledge of the details needed, not many do.
Maybe the bank bailouts could have been handled differently and maybe individuals could have been held to account, but our banking system needed to be rescued for our economy to survive

is_that_so

mad muffin wrote: »

Yeah right.

The vulture funds are doing to Ireland what the big tech companies are doing to San Fran.

I think you're confusing your cuckoos and vultures but demand is still the problem.

mad muffin

is_that_so wrote: »

I think you're confusing your cuckoos and vultures but demand is still the problem.

Yes.

Former Former

Saps like me who kept paying his mortgage all the way through are subsidising the people who don't.

Those people should not be allowed keep their homes. That's the cold hard truth.

The idea that we can't evict people who refuse to pay their mortgage is delaying any chance of a return to normality.

PistolsAtDawn

amcalester wrote: »

No, by we I mean the people of Ireland. The Government merely act on our behalf, ownership rests with the state i.e. the people.

We owe our stones:
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/0704/1060035-national-debt/

The government of Ireland own sweet FA.

Those we are indebted to own our banks..

blindside88

Hal3000 wrote: »

True, but the tax payer wasn't able to reposess banks. We just had to bail them out.

The banks are paying back the tax payer.... BOI for example has fully paid back the state with interest

SEPT 23 1989

As we are entering another recession now some of the people defending these funds will be at their mercy in 10 years time

Life is a funny thing

PistolsAtDawn

We owe €205bn
We have paid €33bn in INTEREST over the last five years

Larbre34 wrote: »

Reward those who can't or won't pay their debts (the distinction is quite irrelevant) and we all pay the price in the end.

So Gordon Gekko, by your own logic; what happens us (Ireland) when we can't pay our debts?

amcalester

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

We owe €205bn
We have paid €33bn in INTEREST over the last five years




So Gordon Gekko, by your own logic; what happens us (Ireland) when we can't pay our debts?

The EU hands us back to the Brits.