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Why we need Capital punishment (again)

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    #32
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,934 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Capital punishment more than likely won't solve future crimes, people with impulsive behavioral issues, tend to have, well impulsive behavioral issues


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    #33
    Auguste Comte
    Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Auguste Comte


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    If he has some kind of mental illness that causes him to be so impulsive that he can’t be rehabilitated he needs to be permanently in a secure psychiatric clinic not on revolving door.

    ^^^
    Exactly, this is a failure of the mental health services,he has an acquired brain injury and should be in a secure care facility not prison and certainly not euthanized.


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    #34
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,934 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Auguste Comte wrote: »
    ^^^
    Exactly, this is a failure of the mental health services,he has an acquired brain injury and should be in a secure care facility not prison and certainly not euthanized.

    id class it more a 'multi-system failure' and not just a health care system failure, i.e its also a failure of our legal system


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    #35
    UpBack1234
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭UpBack1234


    Killing people seems like a solution doesn't it? Over the centuries they've gotten really creative - impalings, crucifixions, chopping peoples heads off and putting them on sticks outside villages as a warning.. But it has never been a true deterrent, as people keep committing crimes and we just start to look like barbaric sadists who react like a gang of apes, grabbing pitchforks every time someone commits a crime. It's no way to run a justice system.


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    #36
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Capital punishment more than likely won't solve future crimes,

    It'll prevent them reoffending.

    It's statistically proven that people commit significantly less crimes when they are dead.


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    #37
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,934 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    BattleCorp wrote:
    It's statistically proven that people commit significantly less crimes when they are dead.


    An element of the concept of capital punishment is to be a deterrent to others, not to commit such acts, the only problem with this is, impulsive behavioral issues tend not to adhere to this logic, I.e. it probably doesn't do much if anything to prevent others from committing such acts, and we learn very little if anything from dead people with these issues


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    #38
    machiavellianme
    Registered Users Posts: 12,443 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    touts wrote: »
    There is only one thing worse than a state that leaves scum like that walk the streets and that's a state that kills people.

    Totally disagree with capital punishment but this is another example of how our current justice industry needs to be completely reformed. After 3 convictions you should not be permitted things like early release, reduced sentences, bail etc. If you are a repeat offender you serve the maximum sentence for the crime and you don't get the benefit of the doubt that bail represents while awaiting trial. You have proven yourself a danger to society incapable of learning from your mistakes and unworthy of further leniency from society.

    This animal should be locked up where he can no longer harm women or generate income for the justice industry.

    What do you think locking him up will do, bar generate income for the justice industry (prison officers)?
    There's no reforming here. Leaving him to rot for life solves nothing.
    You call him an animal, but as a farmer, if I have a bad animal, I dispose of it (as humanely as possible).


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    #39
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    It'll prevent them reoffending.

    It's statistically proven that people commit significantly less crimes when they are dead.

    Source?


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    #40
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    One of the problems with the death penalty, apart from the obvious, is that it actually incentivises multiple homocides, once you’be done the first one might as well continue

    . Would not apply in this case anyway. This guy deserved 10+ years.


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    #41
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,572 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Seeing as how capital punishment is never, ever again going to exist in Ireland, it's a fairly pointless discussion.

    Sentencing reform is absolutely something that should be talked about.

    I've never been a big favour of three strikes laws or even minimum sentencing, because I think judges should have discretion, but I think the problem is a culture of lenient sentencing within Irish judges.

    When people argue for stuff like three strikes laws, what it really means to me is that we have some really crap judges, and a three strikes law just limits the scope of their crapness. We should be looking for them to be less crap in the first place.


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    #42
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    We know he has a brain injury but do we know that he's only begun commiting these crimes since he was injured? Or were their convictions prior to him becoming injured aswell? No mention of it here...


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    #43
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    We know he has a brain injury but do we know that he's only begun commiting these crimes since he was injured? Or were their convictions prior to him becoming injured aswell? No mention of it here...

    if so then he must needs be removed from where he can harm folk. Used to be long stay secure mental hospitals..


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    #44
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    The judges are already lining up the suspended sentences. https://www.thejournal.ie/car-thieves-dublin-4710159-Jul2019/

    There are no more deterrents for crime in this country.


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    #45
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,934 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Hal3000 wrote:
    There are no more deterrents for crime in this country.


    Again, some humans show little or no signs of changing their behavior due to legal deterrents, this logic and approach simply doesn't work for them


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    #46
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Again, some humans show little or no signs of changing their behavior due to legal deterrents, this logic and approach simply doesn't work for them

    So we put up with crime because some people aren't deterred by strict punishments?


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    #47
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,934 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Hal3000 wrote:
    So we put up with crime because some people aren't deterred by strict punishments?


    No not at all, if people commit crimes, they should be tried by jury, and placed in custody if that is the outcome of the court, they should also receive as much rehabilitative treatment as possible in custody, in order to try integrate them back into society, its probably a good idea to note, some show little or no response to this process, show little or no response to increased sentencing, harsher treatment etc, basically, we don't have a clue what to do about them


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