Women-only Train Carriages

rossie1977

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

They have this in Dubai and it works well. The women don't need to use it of course but it's an option and guarantees them a seat and more space.

It's in India as well. Commuters trains in Mumbai especially are chaos during busy times with trains packed like sardines. The women only carriage gives an option, as you said they don't have to use it.

Silentcorner

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

As someone who believes in aspiring for true equality of the sexes and has been a feminist before the advent of the "me too" era, is it ok if I as a woman "trounce" the comment.

A lot of men (and women) are horny and can glance at attractive people if they want, it's a bit of fun particularly when you are young and single. That's how the majority of us in the 90s and 00s were chatted up or how relationships started, through conversation and body language, not by interacting on social media.

I fear that this new wave of virtue signalling and PC nonsense is going to lead to men and women afraid to look at each other almost like the dystopian world of the Handmaid's Tale or worse like Saudi Arabia. The same "feminists" are possibly insisting on unisex toilets.

When my friends and I were single and if some bloke was acting pervy or pushy we would tell him where to go in no uncertain terms. I feel like the younger generation will not be able to cope with any type of confrontation. Men and women are inherently different and we should celebrate the differences, by all means unacceptable behaviour should not be tolerated but basic human interaction should be allowed to continue.

What is "true equality of the sexes" considering both men and women are inherently different, may I ask?

Sheeps

I'm really good at not doing creepy stuff to women on public transport. Are you really good at not doing creepy stuff to women on public transport?

the-island-man

On a trip to Japan I ended up on a female only carriage in Tokyo without initially realising it. Seemed to work well for them and was being obeyed except for the stupid tourist.

Gimme A Pound

klaaaz wrote: »

Well then, just look around you. Why do women majorly travel around in cars instead of walking?

Where are you getting these numbers from?
We need a car for distances that are too far to walk. Otherwise we walk away grand. I saw countless women out walking and running this evening.

They do not feel safe walking around in the dark due to the real threat of male violence. ( *some males for the pedantics!)

We feel totally fine walking around in the dark (apart from when it's late) once it's a built-up, well lit area/there are plenty of people around.

There is a serious problem internationally and here with certain males who can't control themselves amongst women, they are misogynistic and want to control women using sexual violence if needs be for women committing the crime for being independent, this is evident on a packed Tube where women pack together away from men.

The Tube isn't here. A "serious" problem? As a woman, I can't relate. Now even a small such problem is a problem, but what you're talking about seems like Pakistan. Overall, men here do not have a problem with women being independent

Mars Bar

They have this on the metro in Dubai and I used the women only carriage. I'm only 4ft 10 so I've always my face at elbow height so it can be dangerous. Also, in that heat lots of men smell so it's nice to have the option of being in an emptier carriage with less smelly people.

klaaaz

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Aren’t you a defender of trans rights and self identification which will allow biological males access to heretofore segregated female only spaces.

Hey Franz our friend. I'm not a defender of self-ID, where did you pick that from and how is that relevant in this thread? Yes, i'm supportive of transsexual rights which have no bearing on womens rights unlike the pervy men in the carriages eyeing up on women's bodies.

Women only carriages are long overdue as it's obvious that some men cannot control themselves with women around, they treat women as sexual objects instead of treating them as equal human beings.

Lackadaisical

Being reasonably objective, this does not seem to be something that's a frequent issue on Irish trains. So, are we not just discussing importing some measure for an issue we don't have?

The bigger issue I find on trains in Ireland is occasional drinking and scumbaggery, which impacts everyone equally.

For the most part though, Ireland's extremely safe for travelling around whether you're male or female.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

klaaaz wrote: »

Hey Franz our friend. I'm not a defender of self-ID, where did you pick that from and how is that relevant in this thread? Yes, i'm supportive of transsexual rights which have no bearing on womens rights unlike the pervy men in the carriages eyeing up on women's bodies.

Fair enough. I thought you were. Self ID does have a bearing on women’s rights though. It is relevant because you can’t enforce female only spaces with self id.

Women only carriages are long overdue as it's obvious that some men cannot control themselves with women around, they treat women as sexual objects instead of treating them as equal human beings.

I personally don’t see a problem with that except enforcement in Ireland won’t work. I don’t even think quiet carriages work here.

Fann Linn

Shure we can't even police 'reserved' seats on trains so I look forward to seeing how a full carriage will be segregated. Or perhaps we'll just have women only trains.

klaaaz

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Where are you getting these numbers from?
We need a car for distances that are too far to walk. Otherwise we walk away grand. I saw countless women out walking and running this evening.

We feel totally fine walking around in the dark (apart from when it's late) once it's a built-up, well lit area/there are plenty of people around.

The Tube isn't here. A "serious" problem? As a woman, I can't relate. Now even a small such problem is a problem, but what you're talking about seems like Pakistan. Overall, men here do not have a problem with women being independent

Pound, why you trying to defend men's impulses? Today was a long summer's evening(daylight). the risk of a woman jogging/walking on her own is indeed thankfully minimal.

Look, when it gets dark early you are telling porkies saying women can go around on their own without fear in the dark. They do not! I live in the burbs and women stop going out jogging/walking when it gets dark, the reason they disappear is because of the threat of male violence in the dark.

The Tube in London as per topic is just an example which can happen here on the Luas/bus.

angel eyes 2012

Silentcorner wrote: »

What is "true equality of the sexes" considering both men and women are inherently different, may I ask?

You tell me, that's the stuggle.

Ease of access to resources and opportunities regardless of gender, including economic participation? For example in the Catholic Church woman cannot become priests. The majority of Boards in the financial sector are still dominated by men.

I just think the whole concept of the separation of sexes on public transport is excessive and posters are citing India and Dubai as if they are world leaders in the struggle for equal rights for women.

I saw a woman continually strike what appeared to be her partner today at a Luas stop today and nobody, including me, intervened for a multitude of reasons, I suspect. The majority of violence in this country is enflicted by family members or by people known to the victim. It's actually quite rare that strangers attack other strangers for no reason, yes it happens, however it is still quite rare.

Force Carrier

klaaaz wrote: »

Well then, just look around you. Why do women majorly travel around in cars instead of walking?
They do not feel safe walking around in the dark due to the real threat of male violence. ( *some males for the pedantics!)

There is a serious problem internationally and here with certain males who can't control themselves amongst women, they are misogynistic and want to control women using sexual violence if needs be for women committing the crime for being independent, this is evident on a packed Tube where women pack together away from men.

You can't gauge what an entire gender's opinion on an issue without some research and facts. What sources are you siting to justify this new departure?

Fann Linn

Force Carrier wrote: »

You can't gauge what an entire gender's opinion on an issue without some research and facts. What sources are you siting to justify this new departure?

Her own fears.

Gimme A Pound

klaaaz wrote: »

Pound, why you trying to defend men's impulses?

If "men's impulses" means men being all rapey, I'm not defending any such thing.
I'm saying men behaving in such a manner in this country is not the massively widespread thing you say it is, and I don't understand why you're saying such a thing.

Look, when it gets dark early you are telling porkies saying women can go around on their own without fear in the dark. They do not! I live in the burbs and women sop going out jogging/walking when it gets dark, the reason they disappear is because of the threat of male violence in the dark.

I am a woman living in the 'burbs also. People in general tend not to go out when it's dark - and I'm talking at least 8pm in the winter, not just when it gets dark. Yeah fear of being sexually attacked is one reason (but knowing it's highly unlikely), also fear of being mugged, not liking being out in the dark, winter weather being too cold.

You're making women out to be living in terror of men in this country, and I think it's inappropriate when there are plenty of countries where women actually are. I don't agree with pretending a place is something that it's not.

lawred2

FTA69 wrote: »

A woman I know this week had some creep on the Tube videoing her feet and legs and being a generally sleazy c*nt. He was caught out by another woman and a row erupted needless to say. Nearly every woman I’ve asked in London has had some sort of harassment on public transport; groping, staring, fellas w*nking, being followed, been commented at etc. It’s clear it’s a fairly substantial problem.

I’m just back from Mexico City and it was such an issue there they brought in women-only carriages and everyone I asked about it thought they were great and a welcome respite. Is there a need or scope for it in Ireland?

I'm sure I've read this exact same op on here before

Force Carrier

Fann Linn wrote: »

Her own fears.

Insufficient sample set.

Silentcorner

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

You tell me, that's the stuggle.

Ease of access to resources and opportunities regardless of gender, including economic participation? For example in the Catholic Church woman cannot become priests. The majority of Boards in the financial sector are still dominated by men.

I just think the whole concept of the separation of sexes on public transport is excessive and posters are citing India and Dubai as if they are world leaders in the struggle for equal rights for women.

I saw a woman continually strike what appeared to be her partner today at a Luas stop today and nobody, including me, intervened for a multitude of reasons, I suspect. The majority of violence in this country is enflicted by family members or by people known to the victim. It's actually quite rare that strangers attack other strangers for no reason, yes it happens, however it is still quite rare.

Women have better access to health resourses over the course of their lives, have more educational options and therefore better career options than a lot of men, and benefit from a much kinder justice system...there are less women on the Boards of Directors probably because studies have shown if negatively affects profitability...

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/increasing-number-of-female-board-members-reduces-company-profitability-by-12-per-cent-but-lowers-risk/news-story/feb50b6b1358f1ad4ccc8d7898b95b48?fbclid=IwAR20iLHzdg7ekPkc3Nsu73q9lNMSP4foJI9DLswjQiGGcO_Kac8kDti-hHA



(incidentally I do believe childcare should be more affordable and greater support should be given to mothers who wish to return to the workforce)

I'd agree that the Catholic Church is a completely male dominated organisation, but who honestly cares these days, and I'm not sure the presence of women priests would have any impact, it hasn't had in the Protestant faith.

I'd like to think we live in a country where there is mutual respect for our differences, I'd imagine it is our drinking culture that brings out the worst in us, I don't buy into this divisive culture we see today, it helps no one.

Lackadaisical

Also how would this work for this scenario:

My grandmother was really badly harassed by a bunch of teenage girls on Dublin Bus a few years ago. Verbal abuse, food thrown at her ..

The issues on transport in Ireland aren't male vs female. They're feral, often drunk, scumbags with a notion that they've no consequences vs everyone else.

I'd add my granny was no push over and well capable of tearing strips off them and did.

lawred2

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

All those people that take calls on speaker while going around holding their phone in their hand near their mouth should be shot in the face.

100%

klaaaz

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

If "men's impulses" means men being all rapey, I'm not defending any such thing.
I'm saying men behaving in such a manner in this country is not the massively widespread thing you say it is, and I don't understand why you're saying such a thing.

I never said such a thing as "men being all rapey". Some men have a problem with their sexual urges and control.

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

I am a woman living in the 'burbs also. People in general tend not to go out when it's dark - and I'm talking at least 8pm in the winter, not just when it gets dark. Yeah fear of being sexually attacked is one reason (but knowing it's highly unlikely), also fear of being mugged, not liking being out in the dark, winter weather being too cold.

Open your eyes, men go out when its dark, women tend not to, Ask yourself why?! Who is doing the mugging and harassment, its men using their male privilege.

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

You're making women out to be living in terror of men in this country, and I think it's inappropriate when there are plenty of countries where women actually are. I don't agree with pretending a place is something that it's not.

As said, there is a fear amongst women going out on their own in the dark due to male violence, it's a terrible consequence how male terror has dominated women's lives.

Lackadaisical

I was out cycling a greenway in Cork's suburbs earlier on at about 9:30pm and there were plenty of women out walking on their own and it's most definitely not an intimidating environment.

You'll see loads of women out power walking in most of Ireland most evenings and most of them are not in groups for protection or anything like that. You'll see female joggers, walkers on beaches around Dublin all the time too.

It's generally a very civilised place.

There are parts of most Irish cities that I would feel extremely uncomfortable walking after dark, notably parts of North Inner City Dublin. I have (as a guy) taken a taxi in the wee small hours rather than walk (even though it was only a km and a bit) because I didn't feel remotely safe. I have also been mugged and harassed in some of those areas, so it's not just an over-reaction.

Ireland definitely ranks extremely highly as somewhere that's very safe for single female tourists and so on.

The notion that we somehow need segregated train carriages is really taking things to ridiculous extremes.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Absolutely no need in Ireland. Being a public transport cünt is an equal opportunity endeavour in our fair isle.

Dyr

FTA69 wrote: »

We already have sex-segregated spaces where there’s a clear need for them. In a city like Mexico or Tokyo where harassment is rife then it’s not a bad plan to have one at all. In the absence of them There’s an argument to be made for more security on the trains and stations.

There's an argument to be made for having public transport that segregates black people from everyone else given their over representation in violent crime, are you going to make that argument? After all it's the obvious logical conclusion to your idea


It's f***king moronic.

Gimme A Pound

Lackadaisical wrote: »

I was out cycling a greenway in Cork's suburbs earlier on at about 9:30pm and there were plenty of women out walking on their own and it's most definitely not an intimidating environment.

You'll see loads of women out power walking in most of Ireland most evenings and most of them are not in groups for protection or anything like that. You'll see female joggers, walkers on beaches around Dublin all the time too.

It's generally a very civilised place.

There are parts of most Irish cities that I would feel extremely uncomfortable walking after dark, notably parts of North Inner City Dublin. I have (as a guy) taken a taxi in the wee small hours rather than walk (even though it was only a km and a bit) because I didn't feel remotely safe.

Ireland definitely ranks extremely highly as somewhere that's very safe for single female tourists and so on.

The notion that we somehow need segregated train carriages is really taking things to ridiculous extremes.

Aye. I think it's in poor taste to depict Ireland as somewhere it's not. And I'd love to know who those women are - at least something more specific about them. Yeah some women are afraid they'll be raped - it's a fear of no men in particular though, it's of the unknown. And some men are afraid of being assaulted. And either are afraid of being mugged.

I think it does an injustice to Irish men to claim the place is over-run by misogynistic, uncontrolled monsters who have a problem with women being independent.

Yeah there are certainly places women or men feel scared walking through at night, for various reasons.

Vowel Movement

I don't think there is any need for this in Ireland. And as for women afraid to walk at night I know a woman who walks her dog (a very friendly collie) at 1:00 am every morning through town and out quiet but lit up roads and never gets any hassle.

klaaaz

Just watch the evenings get darker and the streets get quieter void of women walking alone in the dark for about 6 months of the year due to the threat of male violence(sexual and non-sexual). This is the valid reason why women have genuine fear going out on their own, they tend to use the car more as the streets are no longer safe due to the male gaze harassing them.

One eyed Jack

Aye, sure women attacking other women on public transport is unheard of, purely by virtue of the fact they are women of course :rolleyes:

It’s a stupid idea, frankly. I have no idea how it operates in other countries with regard to families traveling together, surely there aren’t separate carriages for them too?

The Irish authorities can hardly police fare dodgers, let alone people who are of a mind to want to assault other people (regardless of the type of assault or the sex of either the perpetrator or the victim), so I don’t imagine they would be too bothered about having to attempt to police unruly passengers or demand that people separate into their respective carriages as though travellers are a 50:50 split by sex.

Is it really a thing in other countries where some carriages may potentially be empty while other carriages have passengers on top of each other by virtue of their sex? Seems a bit silly to separate by sex rather than separate by sexual orientation, if the idea is to protect all passengers from potentially being sexually assaulted?

I imagine the majority of passengers are more concerned with simply getting from point A to point B in as efficient a manner as possible, as opposed to the idea of imagining they’ll be sexually assaulted on public transport.

Calhoun

Do we really think that forced segregation is the way forward?

As for women being afraid to walk the streets, depending on where it is men also have a fear of violence. Doesn't matter what sex you are to some scum they will have a go anyway. The problem is policing and ensuring we have visible presence out and about.

Alternatively we could just attack all men and assume they are on the verge of raping any woman on the street. That accomplishes very little though.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

klaaaz wrote: »

Just watch the evenings get darker and the streets get quieter void of women walking alone in the dark for about 6 months of the year due to the threat of male violence(sexual and non-sexual). This is the valid reason why women have genuine fear going out on their own, they tend to use the car more as the streets are no longer safe due to the male gaze harassing them.

You keep saying that regardless of the facts presented.

You: women don’t go out at night in Ireland.
Other women: yes they do. For example...
You: women don’t go out at night in Ireland.