Random EV thoughts.....

liamog

The European Parliament approved today the Regulation on on the deployment of alternative fuels infrastructure, and repealing the previous directive on alternative fuels infrastructure. It being upgraded to a regulation means that member states aren't able to apply their own interpretation like you can with a directive. It still needs to be approved by the Commission before it goes into effect.

The regulation calls for minimum infrastructure per km on the Ten-T Core and Comprehensive road networks (charging pool is a collection of chargers aka hub)

Core: by 31 Dec 2025, 1 charging pool of 400kW with at least 1 150kW charger, by 31 Dec 2027 1 600kW of 600kW with at least 2 150kW chargers every 60km in each direction

Comprehensive: by 31 Dec 2027, at least 50% of the network must have a pool of 300kW with at least 1 150kW charger every 60km in each direction.

Pools for each direction can be combined.

Any charger that is publicly accessible must allow ad-hoc charging via either a payment card reader or a contactless reader that is at least able to read payment cards, operators have until 1 January 2027 to ensure that all existing chargers (50kW and up) are updated to allow ad-hoc payments. A single payment terminal can be shared between all chargers in a pool.

For operators offering automatic authentication the user must be presented with a way to cancel the automated authentication and go with an ad-hoc payment.

For any charging points 50kW and up, the pricing must be based on price per kWh but a price per minute can be additionally added to discourage long occupancy, the operator must show this ad-hoc pricing before a charging sessions starts. MSP's also must show this information clearly via electronic means and are not allowed to charge a cross border roaming fee. CPO's aren't allowed to discriminate

Publicly accessible recharging or refuelling points include, for example, privately owned recharging or refuelling points accessible to the public that are located on public or private property, such as public parking areas or parking areas of supermarkets. A recharging or refuelling point located on private property that is accessible to the public should be considered to be publicly accessible also in cases where access is restricted to a certain general group of users, for example to clients.

liamog

It's for sure not as strict as the UK regulation, would of loved to see them put some uptime standards and forced e-roaming compatibility into the regulation.

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835637#Comment_120835637

I was listening to a pod cast last night with an MG dealer (they sell other brands too but it was an MG owners podcast) and he said the flip in supply, interest and sales is having a big impact in the last few months.

That over the last two years around 30% of all inquiries were for EVs, but their supply was around 8% so there was huge demand.

Now interest in EVs has dropped to about 10% of all inquiries, but supply is 20%. With so much supply the wait times of a year ago that were 12-18 months are now 3-6 weeks.

I see it myself, Tesla, VW, polestar all with inventory you can buy today.

But on the flip side second hand value is tanking. Which is driving up PCP finance rates too. They also have to deal with the loss of the grant (UK) and the rise in electricity. Making it more expensive to make to step up.

So for VW who have an under spec'd, over priced car I'm not surprised interest has dropped. Tesla really shook up the market with the price drop.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839954#Comment_120839954

I’m not sure second hand EV prices are “tanking”. I think we’re seeing the used market level out with realistic depreciation rates. The last few years have seen the market distorted because of Covid, unprecedented supply/demand issues and recent interest rate rises. Obviously folks that bought a Model Y last year for over €70K have taken a huge hit because of the exceptional Tesla price cuts but this a very small group of owners. Maybe the Model Y was overpriced here to start with as Tesla transitioned from niche premium to mass market volume.

DaveyDave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840015#Comment_120840015

Exactly this, tired of people saying the EV market is tanking because after 2 years we're starting to see secondhand models at a reduced cost rather than the new RRP for a year old car. If people are so concerned with values then stick to brands that have good equity.

APR reaching a sky high 8-9% certainly didn't help people jump at buying.

People need to stop acting like cars are the stock market. I'd be more concerned about the high cost ICE being worth something in 3 years when EV sales have been increasing rapidly year on year. We know not everyone can afford €50-60k+ family size EVs, there's going to be a lot of demand for secondhand over the years, the cost to change has increased in recent years so people will be holding onto their cars a bit longer or more likely going secondhand. There will still be plenty of new cars bought.

If people are that concerned with values then keep your deposit at 10% and hope you get it back in equity for trade-in time...

cannco253

Electric buses shambles typical of State’s costly inability to deliver

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/07/12/shambles-of-134-new-electric-buses-without-charging-points-typical-of-state-inability-to-deliver/

The National Transport Authority (NTA) bought 134 brand new all-electric buses in June 2022 for use in Dublin. There are 100 new double-decker buses and 34 single-deck electric buses in storage around the city, but none are in use because the NTA failed to get planning permission for the charging infrastructure to enable them to operate. An NTA spokesperson said that the project to plan, commission and seek planning approval for the infrastructure is now “under way”. The buses cost us at least €50 million and we don’t yet know the cost of the unbuilt charging infrastructure.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840181#Comment_120840181

I'm sure this story will be far more popular that the Turbridy shenanigans when it comes before the PAC🤔

markpb

I read that headline a few days ago and assumed that the project to fit the chargers was just slow because ESBN were involved but that story makes it sound much worse! It sounds like DB procured the buses in a reasonable time but the NTA were unable to even start their side of the project. Where were NTA procuring chargers that will presumably be fitted in DB bus depots anyway?

Jack lemmon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839954#Comment_120839954

From my resent experience of trading in a 3 yr old id3 I can’t say I noticed tanking in 2nd hand prices I got €26k for it, cost me 33/34k 3yrs ago(normal enough depreciation) I also wouldn’t consider them under spec’d, probably over priced but what isn’t at the moment. 12 to 14 week wait for factory spec’d which is what it always was pre 2020.

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840369#Comment_120840369

I'm just going on what he said. That a car they would have given 18k trade in for is now only getting 13k. People who had been waiting on a delivery for 6 months now have to find an extra 5k which can be hard.

The main reason is that finance companies are pricing in the market corrections and are de-risking used EVs.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840181#Comment_120840181

I can't access this article as it's behind a pay wall. I heard a few weeks ago from.a contact in Dublin bus that the chargers were ready to be installed but they did not realise planning was needed, and are only now applying. That's third hand gossip. My understanding is NTA normally procure all the busses, and in this case maybe the chargers too.

Assuming it's only a planning timeline it should not take too long. ESB networks grid upgrades can take 1+ years so hopefully the grid can handle the demand.

cannco253

Could it happen here ?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jul/12/elon-musk-tesla-electric-supplier-britain

Elon Musk’s Tesla plans to launch electricity supplier in Britain

Tesla Electric seeks executive ‘with healthy scepticism of status quo’ to manage entry into UK energy market

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840759#Comment_120840759

Taking a look at the recent planning applications from Dublin Bus, there seems to have been a lot of applications for electrical substations in the past year

https://planning.agileapplications.ie/dublincity/search-applications/results?criteria=%7B%22openApplications%22:false,%22applicantSurname%22:%22Dublin%20Bus%22%7D&page=1

It looks like several of the depots have only gotten permission in the past month or so. In addition there seems to have been two applications in many cases, one for an ESB substation and another for an "E-house" to hold switchgear

I'm inferring from this that the E-house holds the transformer and possibly other equipment for the bus chargers. It's possible that the NTA thought ESBN would provide those or that they were included under the original planning permission

veryangryman

What is the breakdown procedure if your car runs out of battery. Like do they simply tow it to.nearest working DC charging facility or do some patrols have some sort of mobile fast charger.

I get it that it varies but has anyone any experience of it

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848637#Comment_120848637

AA have at least one mobile charger but I can't imagine it offers much more than 3.5 or maybe 7kW. Normal is flatbed home or nearest fast charger!

wassie

The only time I thought I may not make it, I contemplated limping to the nearest house and throw a tenner their way to plug in the granny charger for an hour.

Learnt 2 great lessons, first was just go really slow and you can literally squeeze out quite a few extra KMs and still have some volts left over.

Second was trust Tesla's energy meter, as I'm sure it has a safey factors built into its algorithm.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848819#Comment_120848819

There's a good 25-30kms left in a recent M3/Y after it hits zero, see YouTube tests

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848637#Comment_120848637

AA can tow to nearest working charger, as said they may have a box with a slow charger but I heard they removed them from vans as they weren't being used. Probably quicker for them to bring you to nearest charger and leave than sit with you.

Ideally as a driver aim to end your trip with 20% spare and do a top up just in case to reduce stress. I always bring a granny cable and 5 metre waterproof extension lead and a public charging cable everywhere with me.

Your car insurance may have free breakdown, if car is new it may have free breakdown and you can always pay AA even if not a member or ring any local tow truck.

Typically all 4 wheels need to be off the ground and towing with a tow rope or tow bar is not advised as it may damage car and typically cars lock on parking brake when battery is empty.

The car gives loads of warning, in case of broken chargers I saw one case where someone granny charged at a motorway services stringing the cable out the door or window with permission.

munchkin_utd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841165#Comment_120841165

VW also announced they are getting into the Electricity business using old UP! batteries to create "PowerCenter"s to buy cheap power off the grid and feed it back in when the price (demand) is higher. If I understand it right they are already going live this month with the pilot project.

https://ecomento.de/2023/07/13/vw-und-elli-starten-stromhandel-an-der-europaeischen-energieboerse/?fbclid=IwAR2ExQG0DPUXgSk_YTbCfhRTcQbDWZMADf_2s2SXGkfqS2JOsaXBxkdSbng

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848637#Comment_120848637

Flag someone down and get them to tow you around for a bit with full regen on, it'll charge up the battery while you move 😉

DISCLAIMER: don't do this, not a good plan

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849135#Comment_120849135

I always laugh at the car's that panic when there's 20% battery left. Charging a 500km car at 20% gives the same range as my e-Up! did at 100%.

I'm more of aim to charge at 15/20km type of person.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120850864#Comment_120850864

Pretty sure they tow charged a Rivian R1T on the Long Way Up tv show at some point and it worked.

liamog

Can you do it yes, should you? probably not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaGVoB4Zn-Y

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120851029#Comment_120851029

Yeah there were stories of people doing it with the original Leaf in the US, get someone in a pickup truck to drag you around for a few miles

I remember Nissan released a statement saying that while it works, the motor isn't really designed to be used that way and it isn't good for the car

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120850883#Comment_120850883

Same as myself, my auld Leafy gets down below 15km most days and regularly down below 10km.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120851656#Comment_120851656

I presume that won’t do the battery much good in the long term ?

the_amazing_raisin

Did a trip to Newry and back earlier and the car warned me about a low battery with 20% (70km remaining)

Since getting back I've gone to the shops twice and picked up both kids without recharging

Gonna have to give it a top up overnight though, not looking like I'll be getting much range from solar this weekend 😭

the_amazing_raisin

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mrqCaUBEEjI&feature=youtu.be

Interesting charger setup here. The big screens beside the chargers have a camera on them

It can read the licence plate and if you're registered it'll just start the charger for you. Sort of a form of plug and charge

Of course it took 3 goes to work for Bjorn 😂

Raises some other interesting possibilities, like for example detecting if the space is blocked by a car not charging

Also I wonder if those screens show the SoC of the car. You could be sitting in a cafe on the other side of the car park and see if your car is done. Ideally there'd be a status screen inside the cafe, but I don't think we're there yet

Another interesting thing is the price, it changes throughout the day. Apparently it's based on the spot price of electricity, so it's cheaper at off peak times

It'd be great to see people being rewarded for charging at times that are better for the grid, although I wonder if anyone is going to be popping to the charger at 2am when it's cheapest

silver_sky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848637#Comment_120848637

call a taxi and hope it's an MG with the V2L 🤣

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120852183#Comment_120852183

Another interesting thing is the price, it changes throughout the day. Apparently it's based on the spot price of electricity, so it's cheaper at off peak times

Ive often seen in the Lithuanian Tesla Owners group lads posting up graphs showing when to charge because the price goes to €0!!