Random EV thoughts.....

eagerv

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691701#Comment_120691701

I have an even better idea, why not attach some aerofoil shaped material onto those masts. And travel under wind power..😁

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691861#Comment_120691861

Yeah, they can get f**ked IMO, I've €12 in my account and I'm not topping up to queue to charge up with €5 of electricity

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120691891#Comment_120691891

I think the giant wing thingy also functions as an airfoil

But yeah I kinda wonder why they need to reinvent the sail

AndyBoBandy

Yeah, those big Solar wings will act like aerofoils, like what the previous generation Americas Cup boats had as their mail sail, which was rigid, and generated some serious power

cannco253

New chargers promised for Galway

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/135941/brite-mobility-to-launch-several-high-powered-ev-charging-sites

mailforkev

Interesting article with the VW boss in the IT today about using Ireland as a test bed for a direct sales model. I can see some sweaty palmed dealers in the future.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2023/06/09/vws-global-boss-facing-hard-road-ahead-from-his-forever-home-in-ireland/

wassie

That was interesting. Using Ireland as a test case is concerning as its been flagged before that the agency model may breach European antitrust laws. Car makers can choose what vehicle distribution model they want to impliment. But they cannot combine different models and to take advantage of the benefits of both to the detriment of the consumer.

The other point of interest in that article was the acknowlegement of importance of software. R&D used to be focued on the hardware, but these days software is just as critical and as costly. This is where the likes of Tesla and BYD are ahead of the game.

I did find this concerning:

“In the software world, speed is the other side. And that’s why I am so pushy with governments; we need to create this environment in which we can try out things, especially autonomous driving.

“In China, we can bring something on the road, test it, review it, optimise it. In the European space specifically, we are still too slow.”

Or in otherwords, in an autocracy, human life is worth less than in a democracy.

Schäfer sees this as another opportunity for Ireland to take a lead and allow for advanced autonomous testing, though perhaps not on our rural roads, where he struggles to comprehend 80km/h speeds can be warranted.

Im on the roads all over the country a lot for work and already see enough scary shite on our roads - I'd rather Ireland isnt used as a proving ground.

AndyBoBandy

^^ Yeah, they can go to the U.K. for any of that sh1te... they've no rules or regulations that can't be bought out anymore for the right donations...

Also strange that they'd want to use a RHD market as their testbed for autonomous driving!

CoBo55

Most of that article is yada yada yada, he got that article published because the boss above him was questioning why he wasn't living in Germany to be at their beck and call 24 seven. Such a load of self serving bullshite, none of which will come to fruition.

LasersGoPewPew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120693442#Comment_120693442

I'm happy with a direct sales model if prices lower and with no added dealer related charges.

wassie

Dealers make very little margin on new cars, as much as a couple of hundred euro. The main profit comes from selling accessories, upgrades & finance. Also, what you don't pay in a transparent dealer charge will be offset somewhat by a commission thats hidden in the fixed sale price.

It also means no dealers competiting with each other for your custom, so no more comparison shopping. Most people are propbably ok with this, but those of us whom like to negiotiate will lose out. Im in the latter camp and hence have a bias against the agency model.

Also if you have a difficult issue to resolve, you wont neccessarily be able to force your local agent to deal with it, as they didnt sell you the car.

Be in no doubt, this is not being driven by a desire to bring cheaper cars to market, its about increasing the profit margin for the manufacturer, regardless of how it is dressed up.

MojoMaker

The poor dealers. Literally fighting for scraps 😥

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694744#Comment_120694744

I'm not a fan of the legacy negotiation model. It's always struck me that if a company want's to make a good margin on cars they'll balance it out any discounts given to one customer by being less flexible with another. I believe if two people buy the same car they should pay the same price.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694922#Comment_120694922

They are not needed these days, for new cars, most people want to simply click buy online. I know I'd rather click buy and collect the car from NVD than pay 1k plus in margin for a fancy coffee and multicolored socks. Keep dealers for used car sales and for repairs etc

AndyBoBandy

Legacy dealers will most likely end up as new car collection depots, service depots, and the used car market will be their cream on top...

wassie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695133#Comment_120695133

Tesla demonstrated earlier this year that 2 customers can buy the same car a day apart and pay a different price....to the tune of several thousand.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694744#Comment_120694744

I don't really get the max a couple of hundred euro margin with the ability to bargain. Surely if they have only have a couple of hundred to play with there is no scope for bargaining? Of is it the case they may only have a couple of hundred in the minority of cases where they come up against a hardened bargainer.

Redfox25

It's the trade in where they fleece you too, throw on all the optional extras and finance and that's where they get a few quid.

wassie

In a normal times, dealers would discount for a number of reasons. Often its all about timing. Excess stock, new model runouts, end of the month/quarter/year targets. Its all a numbers game. The negotiation on a new car is less about price and more about getting extras thrown in. Although in the case of a new EV, getting a fully charged battery doesnt quite feel like the same win as a full tank of fuel.

My point is that I think that the Agency model is not necessarily whats best for consumers - its whats best for the manufacturers bottom line.

And before anyone gets the wrong idea, Im no fan of car salesman in the slightest. I rate them with parking inspectors.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695621#Comment_120695621

In the past dealers made more on finance than the actual sale of a new car. People often go with the finance offered by dealer, which is often a bad deal.

Often smaller dealers dont even "own" used cars on their forecourt, often getting a finance companies to own them so the dealer does not have cash tied up in stock.

Often dealers make massive mark up on servicing as the day to day big income.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694466#Comment_120694466

That won't happen, but if they switch to a service model like the ranger service with Tesla then I'd be happy

I'm fed up of bringing the car to the moron brigade in VW to be told they don't know what's wrong with it

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695659#Comment_120695659

To be clear, I believe the agency model actually includes a fixed fee for the dealership. It isn't like Tesla where you buy the car from them directly and have no interaction with the dealership

I agree it gets rid of the ability to negotiate, but it also removes a lot of the hassle dealing with salespeople who haven't a clue what they're selling. Just order a car, pick a dealership for delivery and the rest happens automatically would be ideal IMO

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695285#Comment_120695285

I've no problem with advertised prices changing, it's no different than when Curry's change a price and put that price in front of all customers. What shouldn't happen is person walks into a store, pays €20,000 next customer purchases for €17,000 and the third get's it for €19,000. Your buying a commodity item, the price should be the price.

the_amazing_raisin

Just in case you weren't convinced hydrogen is dead, here's Uncle Bjorn with some hard truths

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AuJqgUUhmkc&feature=youtu.be

The part which shocked me the most is that the Mirai is the size of a Model S but the hydrogen tanks and fuel cells take up so much space it's effectively a Yaris on the inside

Here's a quick summary of why hydrogen is the dumbest thing since they banned sliced bread:

Most hydrogen comes from natural gas and isn't emission free because that's the cheapest way to make it

Electrolysis has huge losses and isn't economically viable

You can just use the electricity for other things

The losses are huge, over 50%. The Mirai has similar motorway range to a Model 3 LR and has a energy content of around 175kWh (compared to 75kWh on the Model 3)

For the price of one hydrogen filling station you can build 20x 150kW chargers (great example of a bus charging depot in the video)

The filling stations can only fill 5 cars before they need to pause to gasify more hydrogen

So yeah, top notch investment, can't wait to see how Japan does with it

wassie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695918#Comment_120695918

What shouldn't happen is person walks into a store, pays €20,000 next customer purchases for €17,000 and the third get's it for €19,000.

Thats exactly what happens. You do realise you can haggle at most department stores on the ticketed price for more expensive goods? People just don't ask.

Do you think you would very feel differently if you were one of the customers who got badly burnt by Tesla earlier this year? I would have been fuming knowing the next guy saved thousands for exactly the same car overnight.

There was massive outrage in the US & China. It was reported that a lot of people claimed that their Tesla adviser told them there were no upcoming price drops and placed orders on that basis. Then in typical Tesla style, overnight they massively discounted the price. That kind of thing leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths such that it feels not too dissimiliar from a bad experience with a dealer.

When your buying a car, often also theres a lead times and finance involved, so not like buying goods from a shop. For most people its the second buggest purchase after a house.

But to be fair, Tesla do allow you to lock in a price at time of ordering and delay delivery. That is something that is a definate plus and has been used by many of us to our advantage. I do wonder how long this will last though as it used to game the system somewhat. I'm not aware of other brands that will allow this on a vehicle with a long lead time and typically would pass on price rises while waiting for delivery on longer waits.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698856#Comment_120698856

Of course I know it happens, thats why I said I didn't like. Two people buying the same item on the same day should pay the same price and not be forced to compete with each other for a bigger discount. With an agency model I don't have to waste time phoning many sellers to try and find one offering the biggest discount.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698856#Comment_120698856

While I get the outrage for existing owners with the Tesla price cuts, and don't get me wrong I would equally be pissed off, the same level if outrage is rarely expressed when it's the other way around, which is the norm tbh.

wassie

Has any one rented or know what the deal is with returning a rental EV with regards to the state of charge?

Typically with an ICE if you dont return the tank to a similar level or better, you get stung on refuelling charges.

But I imagine not so easy to top an an EV just before returning it, at least in this country with our lack of charging, particularly in an around Dublin airport.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120706297#Comment_120706297

I don't think there's anything specific but I'd probably try to charge it up because I wouldn't trust the rental company to do it without burning the place down

wassie

So a bit of googly on the interwebs shows that typically SoC for return vehicle needs to be around 70-75%.

This is Budget's take:

Electric cars will be supplied with at least 80% battery charge. All electric cars must be returned with 70% or more battery power remaining. If you return the car with less than 70% battery a €100 fee will be charged for recharging.

Tesla supercharger usage will be billed when you are returning your vehicle.

Potentially you could get stung for a hundred quid for being a few kW under! OUCH!

When Im away for work, its pretty standard to fill up the vehicle on the way back to the airport to drop it off.

Trying doing that mid-late afternoon around Dublin airport - you would need to allow a hell of a lot of extra time. Becomes more problematic if you have to sign up & install an app in order to get a charge!