Leaving 9 yr old in car?

Darc19

spurious wrote: »

'Didn't want to go to the shop'.
She's nine. She does what her parent says, or there are consequences.
I would start with leaving her in the car while I went in, but it wouldn't finish there. Little madam. She does what she is told, or she cleans her room/misses her TV show/gets the wifi turned off, whatever.

What happens when she 'doesn't want' to go to school/do her homework/pick up after herself?

That would not be my way of dealing with it.

She's 9, she's starting to become independent. As a parent you need to know the important issues.

Not wanting to come into a shop is not important. You let them win those battles.

Not wanting to go to school is important. You don't give in on that battle.

Imo the OP did right and allowed the daughter have her alone time. There was no risk.


As for others

How many children have been abducted by total strangers in Ireland in the past 10 years? Just one in Athlone and he was caught and is serving life.

How many children been hurt by car going on fire whilst parked? Don't think there's ever been a case.


The world is far safer now than ever for children. Only problem is fake news on social media.

facehugger99

People's assessment of risk is hilarious.

Will happily drive at 100kph down a 2-lane road but won't leave a child for 5 minutes in a carpark?

There is probably a greater risk of being injured in the walk from the car to the shop and back again.

biko

I'd be happy to leave her in the car as long as I know she won't unlock it and wander off.
It actually means I get my shopping done faster and there is no nagging to get this or that cereal or chocolates.

eagle eye

sydthebeat wrote:

its called teaching personal responsibility.....
all those youve mentioned above have a consequence on the childs life.... going into a shop doesnt. So if nine year old asks why do i have to go into the shop and the response is "because i said so"... well thats just poor parenting.

Wrong.
There is already a strong relationship there. Just saying that is not poor parenting because it's likely there has been many conversations about situations where the child didn't want to do something before.
Parents might be under a lot of pressure and in a rush so they'll use that line and then sit the child down later when they have time and explain it to them.
Personally I'd tell the child that I'm not comfortable with them staying in the car on their own so it's not happening.

Neyite

olestoepoke wrote: »

This is how snowflakes are created, mollycoddled children end up being useless adults that can do nothing for themselves.

Would you leave your Ray Bans/ Laptop/ Wallet on the passenger seat with the window partially cranked down for 10-15 minutes to go into a shop out of eye-line of the car?
I doubt it.


Road Safety Authority of Ireland advise against leaving children unattended in cars - that's good enough for me, as they are the people who know a bit more about the risks than the rest of us.

KatyMac

When my daughters were that age and they didn't want to come into shop or whatever with me I would leave them the keys. They were able to lock themselves in but also be in a position to get out if necessary.

Neyite

spurious wrote: »

Apparently she could be incinerated for her freedom of choice if you go by the nonsense here.

https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/statistics/v19i2.pdf


This is US statistics: Approximately one in eight fires responded to by fire departments across the nation is a highway vehicle fire. This does not include the tens of thousands of fire department responses to highway vehicle accident sites.

It's smoke inhalation that kills people in a fire, not incineration.



I used to work in a job that dealt with car breakdowns. At least once a day our office would get a call about a car on fire. In Ireland. And our office was only one of 3 such offices. So a conservative estimate for me would be that about three cars a day in Ireland caught fire in some minor way. A child might not even realise that smoke is coming into the interior of the car until they've become unconscious. Or they could already be asleep (like my 7yo always does in the car) and not notice any smoke.

Effects

Neyite wrote: »

Would you leave your Ray Bans/ Laptop/ Wallet on the passenger seat with the window partially cranked down for 10-15 minutes to go into a shop out of eye-line of the car?
I doubt it.

I'd be more worried about someone stealing my laptop/wallet than my child to be honest.

sydthebeat

eagle eye wrote: »

Wrong.
There is already a strong relationship there. Just saying that is not poor parenting because it's likely there has been many conversations about situations where the child didn't want to do something before.
Parents might be under a lot of pressure and in a rush so they'll use that line and then sit the child down later when they have time and explain it to them.
Personally I'd tell the child that I'm not comfortable with them staying in the car on their own so it's not happening.

Im not wrong.

you should do some research into early chiildhood education and sociology if you think your way of doing things is "right".

Teaching your child independence and self though is much more important at that age than to be scare mongering them about bogey men coming to take them, the car going on fire etc.......

perhaps you should step back and take a look at yourself and ask why YOU have a problem with a 9 year old staying in the car for 10 minutes while you go into a shop...

what are YOU afraid of?

meeeeh

It depends. Sometimes it's easier to leave them in the car. If I need to pay for petrol it will be easier, cheaper and quicker to leave them in the car than have an argument why they can't have crisps. And frankly there is a lot more chance someone will steal your laptop bag than decide to kidnap a child. I don't like leaving them in the car when going to supermarket because you never know when you will be stuck behind a donkey having a big ling chat with the cashier.

Dravokivich

meeeeh wrote: »

It depends. Sometimes it's easier to leave them in the car. If I need to pay for petrol it will be easier, cheaper and quicker to leave them in the car than have an argument why they can't have crisps. And frankly there is a lot more chance someone will steal your laptop bag than decide to kidnap a child. I don't like leaving them in the car when going to supermarket because you never know when you will be stuck behind a donkey having a big ling chat with the cashier.

You cant handle a stropy kid that isnt getting their way? I say no, the kid asks why, its becuase I said no.

Also it's not unheard of for people to steal cars with kids still in them. Most theft is about opportunity after all.

DavyD_83

pwurple wrote: »

I know I've only been driving 20 odd years, but in those years, two of my cars have gone on fire. One was a battery fault, it went up in flames while switched off and parked. The other was after an impact... the fuel line was hit. It's still a box sitting on a tank of flammable liquid, and they go up fairly quickly... I wouldn't assume a child could get out in those circumstances. Why lock it?

To be honest, I'd be happier leaving a child at home, or UNLOCKED, than locked in a car, but it really depends on the circumstances. Is it busy there, could the car be side-swiped by a passing bus, or reversed into by some muppet in a carpark... etc

Have you ever seen final destination?

meeeeh

Dravokivich wrote: »

You cant handle a stropy kid that isnt getting their way? I say no, the kid asks why, its becuase I said no.

Also it's not unheard of for people to steal cars with kids still in them. Most theft is about opportunity after all.

I love it how super parents straight away need to tell me how much better they are at parenting than me. I have two ok behaved nice kids who are smart enough to try to get what they want. But I'm glad yours are as obedient as you want them to be.

facehugger99

Dravokivich wrote: »

the kid asks why, its becuase I said no.

I think you're better off explaining the reasons behind a refusal than just saying 'its because I said no'.

Regarding the car being stolen with the kids in it - do you also worry about meteor strikes or shark attacks when swimming? Where do you draw the line at worrying about incredibly unlikely scenarios?

Tombo2001

Parents are among the many go to groups that we 'blame' for things. I blame the parents.

OP, I understand your concern. However, I note you don't show any sympathy for a mother who tasked with doing the jobs that need to be done in running the house, is met with a child who says - nah, cant be bothered, I'm not going in, I'm staying here.

No doubt, that's the parents fault?

Second, something that's note much discussed is that parenting tools that were available up to say 20 years ago are no longer Kosher today.

Back in the day, a nine year old that threw a strop might facing the prospect of a clout; and they'd be thinking a lot longer and harder about whether they should throw that strop in the car park.

(I will say this twice, lest there be any confusion).

I am not advocating violence towards children. I am not condoning violence towards children.

However, in my humble opinion, parents these days need to work a lot harder and smarter to keep their kids in check - and to be honest, if the parents relationship is in anyway disfunctional - then this task becomes really really hard and difficult.

I'm not commenting above on OPs daughter or granddaughter here but speaking in general.

So OP - your daughter needs to buy groceries to feed the kids. Her child throws a strop and wont get out of the car.....

Whats she to do?

Go hungry? Not get the groceries.....after getting in her car and driving to the supermarket?

That's the real life situation she is in.

Tombo2001

facehugger99 wrote: »

People's assessment of risk is hilarious.

Will happily drive at 100kph down a 2-lane road but won't leave a child for 5 minutes in a carpark?

There is probably a greater risk of being injured in the walk from the car to the shop and back again.

Its a great point.

meeeeh

I think we all take certain risks. Two parents watching tv on Friday night and having a bottle of wine won't be exactly in top shape if a kid gets sick. Kids climbing on a tree might fall and get hurt but they will be in a better shape than kids who don't climb. Cycling on roads with kids can be dangerous but for me it's preferable to not cycle. It's safer to keep an eye on kids all the time when they play but if don't they will more likely develop independence and ability to deal with conflict.

A few minutes in car is not the end of the world and to me it seems we are so sacred of doing anything it's starting to limit our experiences. I go for a walk with a dog and kids for a walk in local woods. I was told by some they would never go there in case someone attacks them. I'm pretty sure there was not one incident there in last 40 years. And sometimes practicality just means it's easier to let them in the car for few minutes.

Varik

Got left in the car a lot, given a euro and told to keep an eye out for ticket man and get a ticket if he came.

jackboy

Truth is children at school are only semi supervised. Any of them could just walk out the gate at lunchtime and fair chance wouldn’t be noticed missing for a while. Also, a car could stop at the school gate, a man could jump the gate and have a kid gone in seconds. Do parents worry about these things? In general no.

So, worrying about a 9 year old in a car alone for a few minutes is illogical, especially when they face bigger hazards every day.

zaphodbeeb

https://thetattooedbuddha.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/4cbe5fb73aa20837ed0fd192d7f85191_the-miracle-of-marriage-tip-two-people-arguing-clipart_580-351.jpeg

Like almost every topic on boards these days. Let's respect our differences.

El Tarangu

Dravokivich wrote: »

I wouldn't do it at all. If I'm going to the shops, the kid is coming in with me. If they want to throw a strop, they can do it wherever as far as I'm concerned.

https://youtu.be/dwEg1RoULBw

I just watched a few seconds of that video; in it, he is talking about the weather being 94° (this is 34° Celsius)... Now, I don't think anyone would proposed leaving their kids in the car during a heatwave. There is a big difference between leaving a child/pet in the car wherever your man is, California or somewhere, and doing the same thing here when it is 14° and cloudy AF.

Wabbit Ears

antodeco wrote:

What does the company handbook say in relation to company equipment? Normally there's a part that mentions what the company can/can't do.

I leave my kids in the car relativly often. Think absolutly nothing of it.

This fire talk is pretty much the stupidest line of conversation ive read all week on the internet. FFS people, try, just a little, to ground yourselves in reality for a second.

poeticjustice

Dravokivich wrote: »

A notch in the windows doesn't create any airflow for a parked car.

The last thing you want is airflow in a car that's likely to combust at any second...

Hoboo

meeeeh wrote: »

I think we all take certain risks. Two parents watching tv on Friday night and having a bottle of wine won't be exactly in top shape if a kid gets sick. Kids climbing on a tree might fall and get hurt but they will be in a better shape than kids who don't climb. Cycling on roads with kids can be dangerous but for me it's preferable to not cycle. It's safer to keep an eye on kids all the time when they play but if don't they will more likely develop independence and ability to deal with conflict.

A few minutes in car is not the end of the world and to me it seems we are so sacred of doing anything it's starting to limit our experiences. I go for a walk with a dog and kids for a walk in local woods. I was told by some they would never go there in case someone attacks them. I'm pretty sure there was not one incident there in last 40 years. And sometimes practicality lazy parenting just means it's easier to let them in the car for few minutes.

Would you leave an open bag of money on the back seat for a few minutes? I doubt it.

eagle eye

sydthebeat wrote:

perhaps you should step back and take a look at yourself and ask why YOU have a problem with a 9 year old staying in the car for 10 minutes while you go into a shop...
what are YOU afraid of?

It doesn't happen that often but things do happen like the child gets out of the car and ends up getting hurt or knocked down. Junkies see an opportunity and your kid ends up going through a traumatic experience.
I'd never forgive myself if something like this happened to my child because I left them alone unsupervised in a public place.

facehugger99

poeticjustice wrote: »

The last thing you want is airflow in a car that's likely to combust at any second...

Avoid petrol too just to be on the safe side.

sydthebeat

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd never forgive myself if something like this happened to my child because I left them alone unsupervised in a public place.

That would be considered very smothering actually

do you allow them to do out to play with friends, or do you have to be there to watch them all the time?
do you allow them to go to the shop on their own?

what fears have you ingrained into them by this irrational fear of them stepping out of a car in a car park and getting run over??
have you not thought them how to safely orientate traffic by the time they are 9 years of age??
if not, at what age will you teach them?

nthclare

Anytime I see young kids left in the car, its the usual suspects.

All fur coat and no knickers, too busy running and racing around like headless chickens.

Not enough time to relax and think, all go go go

My son would always leave the car with me and we'd take our time going about our business.

I love him dearly and would always be conscious of his safety and security.

ncmc

Neyite wrote: »

Would you leave your Ray Bans/ Laptop/ Wallet on the passenger seat with the window partially cranked down for 10-15 minutes to go into a shop out of eye-line of the car?
I doubt it.

Hoboo wrote: »

Would you leave an open bag of money on the back seat for a few minutes? I doubt it.

This argument cracks me up. For a lot of people, stealing money, lap top, phone etc is a crime of opportunity. They are small, portable, high value items that are easily converted to cash. So if you take an average 100 people, maybe 5 would steal an item like that from an open car. Kidnapping a child is a crime so far removed from petty theft, it's on another planet. It is the very opposite of a crime of opportunity. You could take an average million people and only a couple would consider kidnapping a child from a car. To use the old 'would you leave your wallet unaccompanied in the car' argument just makes a nonsense of the whole discussion. The chances of a 9 year old being kidnapped from a car by a stranger is so low, that it's not even worth considering.

sydthebeat

ncmc wrote: »

This argument cracks me up. For a lot of people, stealing money, lap top, phone etc is a crime of opportunity. .

completely agreed..... do people actually equate their kids to material goods??
and therefore see them as a similar value for theft??

of course they dont, which just shows the ridiculousness of the argument

Bob Harris

nthclare wrote: »

Anytime I see young kids left in the car, its the usual suspects.

All fur coat and no knickers, too busy running and racing around like headless chickens.

Not enough time to relax and think, all go go go

My son would always leave the car with me and we'd take our time going about our business.

I love him dearly and would always be conscious of his safety and security.

What a sweet story.

meeeeh

Hoboo wrote: »

Would you leave an open bag of money on the back seat for a few minutes? I doubt it.

As much as I love my kids I do realize a bag of money is a lot more tempting to other people than mine or someone else's kids. This type of comparisons are stupid.

nthclare

Bob Harris wrote: »

What a sweet story.

Thanks Bob, sure he's a grand wee lad.

Well he's nearly 20 now lol

Listening to gangsta rap and educating me on flows and poetic justice

MOH

Hoboo wrote: »

Would you leave an open bag of money on the back seat for a few minutes? I doubt it.

You wouldn't download a car ... and then leave a child alone in the car ... with a big bag of money ...

Tombo2001

nthclare wrote: »

Anytime I see young kids left in the car, its the usual suspects.

All fur coat and no knickers, too busy running and racing around like headless chickens.

Not enough time to relax and think, all go go go

My son would always leave the car with me and we'd take our time going about our business.

I love him dearly and would always be conscious of his safety and security.

Are you brilliant in every way or just parenting?

Tombo2001

To make a comparison

Something I see routinely, and do occasionally myself - and is far more dangerous than what OP is talking about here - is having kids travel in a car without a car seat, or with an inappropriate car seat.

Going back to the point on 'people's assessment of risk' - thats far more 'risky' if we are talking about the possibility of something going wrong.......

But 'stranger danger' is more exciting to talk about.

B_ecke_r

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The risk of the car going on fire would be the biggest danger.

do you bring a 9 year old to the toilet with you in case the house goes on fire?

facehugger99

ncmc wrote: »

Kidnapping a child is a crime so far removed from petty theft, it's on another planet.

Caucasian children regularly fetch well into 4 figures on ebay.

Stay vigilant people.

eagle eye

sydthebeat wrote:

That would be considered very smothering actually

I disagree, I call it common sense with a kid under 12 years of age.

sydthebeat wrote:

do you allow them to do out to play with friends, or do you have to be there to watch them all the time? do you allow them to go to the shop on their own?

I allow then go play but their supervised. They mightn't know they're supervised unless something goes wrong.
I'd never allow a kid under 12 go to the shop on their own.

sydthebeat wrote:

what fears have you ingrained into them by this irrational fear of them stepping out of a car in a car park and getting run over?? have you not thought them how to safely orientate traffic by the time they are 9 years of age?? if not, at what age will you teach them?

I don't ingrain any fears in them.

wanderer 22

nthclare wrote: »

Anytime I see young kids left in the car, its the usual suspects.

All fur coat and no knickers, too busy running and racing around like headless chickens.

Not enough time to relax and think, all go go go

My son would always leave the car with me and we'd take our time going about our business.

I love him dearly and would always be conscious of his safety and security.

I read this in a rapping cadence

sydthebeat

eagle eye wrote: »

I disagree, I call it common sense with a kid under 12 years of age.


I allow then go play but their supervised. They mightn't know they're supervised unless something goes wrong.
I'd never allow a kid under 12 go to the shop on their own.


I don't ingrain any fears in them.

well, obviously we have very different parenting styles and im not going to knock choices of anyone... but unfortunately your posts do convey that you are very fearful and your kids certainly do pick up on things like that.

Covert surveillance while they play with friends??? thats actually disturbed. why arent you up front and tell them that you are watching them?

kids have to be allowed the space to learn independence and the responsibilities that come with that..... they need to be allowed to make mistakes and suffer the consequences.

if you dont allow your kid to go to the shop on their own until they are 12 years of age then you are severely stiffing them.
At that age they are preparing to go to secondary school... and discos etc... and if they havent even got the confidence to walk un-escorted at that age then im afraid for them as to how they will interact with their peers, makes new friends and survive in the much more socialised world that comes with being that age.

B_ecke_r

it's not so long ago kids were left sitting in the car with a bottle of Red Lemonade and crisps while parents were in the pub all day.

while I agree it's a non issue leaving a 9 year old in a car for 10 minute shop run, I also agree that a 9 year old shouldn't dictate they're not going somewhere.

LegacyUser

My mums a GP and often we'd be going somewhere and she'd get a call to see someone straight away. She'd leave me in the car while she ran into the nursing home, patients house etc etc and I was younger than 9. It was daylight, she locked the car but left the car keys. I'd sit there happy out for 15 mins listening to the radio. My mum knew she could trust me but she'd never have done the same with my brother. Parents know their own kids, some you know are sensible and can be trusted while others .... not so much. My brother is an adult now and I still think my mum would think twice before leaving him on his own!

Tombo2001

What is the problem with an 11 year old going to the shop on their own?

What is the reason for not allowing it?

Genuine question.

Tombo2001

B_ecke_r wrote: »

it's not so long ago kids were left sitting in the car with a bottle of Red Lemonade and crisps while parents were in the pub all day.

while I agree it's a non issue leaving a 9 year old in a car for 10 minute shop run, I also agree that a 9 year old shouldn't dictate they're not going somewhere.

We all know that......the issue is - how do you deal with that.

sydthebeat

B_ecke_r wrote: »

while I agree it's a non issue leaving a 9 year old in a car for 10 minute shop run, I also agree that a 9 year old shouldn't dictate they're not going somewhere.

a nine year old shouldnt be ordered around for a pointless 10 minute shop n dash.... what exactly is achieved by making them do something they dont want to do at that age?? they are expressing independence in a very, very minimal way... and that should actually be encouraged to happen, and framed with conditions obviously.

B_ecke_r

I agree, but it's a fine line for parents.

next time they could be parked somewhere unsafe for example and it's better if they go in.

I walked home from school when I was that age, stayed in the car regularly and walked to the shop every sunday for the papers.

nthclare

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Are you brilliant in every way or just parenting?

I don't understand what your post is about.

Why ask me a question about my abilities outside of parenting.

I never said I was a brilliant parent.

I think you're just being pedantic to be honest, you're not really interested in how good I am outside parenting.

I think my post triggered you in ways.

Telpis

meeeeh

I think it's ok to give in to 9 when you are happy enough to do so. Once you give in because they kick up too much fuss otherwise then you are loosing control. But in the end it's balancing act, you give in sometimes and hold your ground other times. I'm fairly strict about accesss to internet and what they are allowed to access (parental controls on everything). You judge each situation separately, each activity separately and hope you won't screw up.

sydthebeat

B_ecke_r wrote: »

I agree, but it's a fine line for parents.

next time they could be parked somewhere unsafe for example and it's better if they go in.

I walked home from school when I was that age, stayed in the car regularly and walked to the shop every sunday for the papers.

exactly, and that would be the perfect example of teaching the the conditions of their independence.

say the argument goes "but i was allowed to stay in the car last time"
the new response isnt "well im saying you have to come with me now".. thats pointless...
the new response is the explanation as to why this situation is different.
"im going to be gone for much longer"
"i wont be able to see the car from where im going but i am able from the supermarket"
"you dont know this area, so if you get out of the car looking for me you could get lost"
etc etc

give the kids some credit with an explanation, rather than a blunt order... cos we all know how "cos i said so" will be reacted to ........