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Why is breastfeeding in public acceptable?
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jam_mac_jam wrote: »It is extremely rare to feed kids that long though. So not really what you are going to encounter in public or private.
Oh yeah, it would be rare. But I have seen it and I personally don't find it to be something to frown upon if a 2-3 year old kid is breastfed few times a day.0 -
I agree I think it would be none of my business.Gwen Cooper wrote: »jam_mac_jam wrote: »It is extremely rare to feed kids that long though. So not really what you are going to encounter in public or private.
Oh yeah, it would be rare. But I have seen it and I personally don't find it to be something to frown upon if a 2-3 year old kid is breastfed few times a day.0 -
So is this your real problem... Snobbery?
The educated white women like breastfeeding so it must be bad? Well Boo bloody hooo. Get over yourself. The poor brown women also breastfeed. Baby needs food. Woman makes milk. End of story. Doesn't matter how many degrees anyone has, or how threatened any incel dudes around are. Baby still needs food.
Good grief! Are there classes I can take in missing the point, or does it just come naturally to some posters here?
My point was that attachment parenting is popular among a certain class. You’ll note (maybe you missed that too) that I didn’t specify gender as it’s not depending upon gender. The philosophy was developed by a male paediatrician who had never either been pregnant, given birth nor breastfed, and it has been widely criticised for the impossible standards it places on women. Breastfeeding on demand is only one component of the wider philosophy of attachment parenting. Ironically enough, since you bring them up, it would align very neatly with incel thinking on women’s role in society as though their primary function is to be breeders and feeders.Breastfeeding is ok in public, because the alternative is imprisonment/banishment of women.
What? No it isn’t? No women are going to be imprisoned or banished from society for choosing not to breastfeed in public. To the best of my knowledge it hasn’t happened in Europe, the US, the Middle East or Africa. Perhaps you’re aware of a society where this has happened, maybe you could enlighten me?It's just not practical any other way. Let down reflex alone would be a good enough reason... Baby is crying for food, milk comes out like the nipple is a frikken showerhead. Absolutely no point in having a pumped bottle of pre-prepped breastmilk there, the woman will just be soaked either way.
And yet for many more women than not, it’s breastfeeding in public is considered impractical, and that’s why they choose either one, or a combination of the many, many more practical alternatives. Alternatives to breastfeeding which are more practical for them in their circumstances than breastfeeding. That’s why globally, rates of breastfeeding are as low as they are - because for the majority of women, breastfeeding is impractical when there are far more practical alternatives available to them.All this faffing with gear and covers and locations and cries, and worrying about who sees what. Who gives a shlt. Just Feed the damn baby.
Keep it simple.
Absolutely! That’s likely the only thing we’ll agree on - the vast majority of people simply don’t give a shìt about how other people choose to feed their babies. Some people do though, and they want other women to feed their babies the same way they do, by breastfeeding, and because the majority of women won’t and don’t want to, the same women claim that it must be anything from the invention of formula to the sexualisation of the breasts, to it being the patriarchy’s fault.
If you were to take a look at an actual patriarchal society such as Saudi Arabia where Western concepts of women’s rights don’t mean shìt, where educated white women are about as common a sight as an uncovered breast, breastfeeding rates have fallen dramatically in the last few years due to the influence of Western culture and the introduction of alternative and more practical means of getting nutrition into their children (infant mortality rates have risen dramatically in that time too), but they’ve a bit of catching up to do still with their more educated counterparts in the West in terms of women’s role in society and the education of women. Perhaps then like proponents of attachment parenting who appear to want to drive society backwards, attachment parenting will catch on again as by then it’ll be a new fad there too.
Meh, you’re right pwurple, I should probably have kept it simple. Perhaps then you wouldn’t have gone out of your way to misconstrue what I’d said.0 -
sbsquarepants wrote: »Jaysus - that kids a bit old for the tit isn't he!
Babies - let them at it, but that fella will clearly remember sucking the diddies off his ma, that shít just has to fúck you up! (although I must confess I would have a little nibble on them myself, she's pretty hot - but the important point is she's not my ma)
My mots cousin breastfed her daughter up to some stupid age, 5 or 6 - I always found it extremely weird!
There are no figures for it, and unquestionably it’s unusual, but it’s becoming a trend too -
Breastfeeding Older Children – It is More Common Than You Think
Can’t find the article online but I remember reading in one of those women’s magazines one woman’s story where she was still breastfeeding her child at ten years of age. Now that was unusual. Weird? Meh, I’ve seen worse :pac:0 -
Well, if they can't breastfeed in public, where do you suggest they do it?One eyed Jack wrote: »What? No it isn’t? No women are going to be imprisoned or banished from society for choosing not to breastfeed in public. To the best of my knowledge it hasn’t happened in Europe, the US, the Middle East or Africa. Perhaps you’re aware of a society where this has happened, maybe you could enlighten me?
Out of public = banished.
So, is it breastfeeding full stop you have a problem with. Not just in public. Feeding humans with human milk instead of the bovine version is weird for you?One eyed Jack wrote: »for the majority of women, breastfeeding is impractical when there are far more practical alternatives available to them.0 -
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Well, if they can't breastfeed in public, where do you suggest they do it?
Out of public = banished.
So, is it breastfeeding full stop you have a problem with. Not just in public. Feeding humans with human milk instead of the bovine version is weird for you?
I didn’t suggest any woman couldn’t breastfeed in public in the first place? Are you just not reading what I’ve written, because that’s the only conclusion I can think of. In none of my posts have I ever suggested that women shouldn’t breastfeed in public. That’s why I agreed with you when you said nobody cares. The vast majority of people actually don’t care about women who choose to breastfeed in public. They have more important things to be thinking about.
My issue is with being told I have an issue with something, in spite of the numerous number of times now I have clarified that I do not have any issue with women who choose to breastfeed in public.
At one point in this thread I was jumped on because I said I would support any woman who chose to breastfeed in public, and told by a two posters they wouldn’t want my support. I didn’t offer them any support, I pointed out that I would always ask a woman breastfeeding if there was anything I could do, and if there wasn’t, I’d leave her to it,
It appears to me as though some people want people to have issues with it, and that’s how they’re reading people’s posts, with that attitude in mind. I would suggest dropping your own preconceived notions and judgments about other people before you think it’s public breastfeeding you’re being criticised for. It’s not.0 -
One eyed Jack wrote: »I didn’t suggest any woman couldn’t breastfeed in public in the first place? Are you just not reading what I’ve written, because that’s the only conclusion I can think of. In none of my posts have I ever suggested that women shouldn’t breastfeed in public. That’s why I agreed with you when you said nobody cares. The vast majority of people actually don’t care about women who choose to breastfeed in public. They have more important things to be thinking about.
My issue is with being told I have an issue with something, in spite of the numerous number of times now I have clarified that I do not have any issue with women who choose to breastfeed in public.
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Dude, maybe it's because you're flipflopping around like a fish.
The title of the thread is "Why is breastfeeding in public acceptable". If you want to go off and discuss something else, perhaps this isn't the thread for it? Is your only point really that you don't care either way? Because you could have written that a lot more succinctly, than those essays above!At one point in this thread I was jumped on because I said I would support any woman who chose to breastfeed in public, and told by a two posters they wouldn’t want my support. I didn’t offer them any support, I pointed out that I would always ask a woman breastfeeding if there was anything I could do, and if there wasn’t, I’d leave her to it
I have no idea why you think any breastfeeding woman would need some random dude asking if he could help her breastfeed. :rolleyes: Naw lad, you're alright, she's got it.
:pac::pac::pac:0 -
One eyed Jack wrote: »I didn’t suggest any woman couldn’t breastfeed in public in the first place? Are you just not reading what I’ve written, because that’s the only conclusion I can think of. In none of my posts have I ever suggested that women shouldn’t breastfeed in public. That’s why I agreed with you when you said nobody cares. The vast majority of people actually don’t care about women who choose to breastfeed in public. They have more important things to be thinking about.
My issue is with being told I have an issue with something, in spite of the numerous number of times now I have clarified that I do not have any issue with women who choose to breastfeed in public.
At one point in this thread I was jumped on because I said I would support any woman who chose to breastfeed in public, and told by a two posters they wouldn’t want my support. I didn’t offer them any support, I pointed out that I would always ask a woman breastfeeding if there was anything I could do, and if there wasn’t, I’d leave her to it,
It appears to me as though some people want people to have issues with it, and that’s how they’re reading people’s posts, with that attitude in mind. I would suggest dropping your own preconceived notions and judgments about other people before you think it’s public breastfeeding you’re being criticised for. It’s not.
TBF that does not sum up your posts accurately - you joined in with some bonkers nonsense about babies being given "plant milk" before breastfeeding was invented, as evidence for your theory that breast feeding was not the natural way for huma babies to be fed.
How can you then expect anyone to think you don't have some issue with breastfeeding - I mean, WTF?? Where does that nonsense even come from?0 -
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One eyed Jack wrote: »I didn’t suggest any woman couldn’t breastfeed in public in the first place? Are you just not reading what I’ve written, because that’s the only conclusion I can think of. In none of my posts have I ever suggested that women shouldn’t breastfeed in public.
For someone who doesn't care, you certainly post very agitated, rambling, confused, ranting and lengthy posts about it.
I can't wait to see three pages of you not caring about this reply.
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How about we have a vote?
If you believe that One Eyed Jack has a serious problem with women who breastfeed in public, and is a bit of a mysoginist, generally, please, thank this post.0 -
If you believe that, as he claims, One Eyed Jack has no issues with women breastfeeding in public, please thank this post.0
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Dude, maybe it's because you're flipflopping around like a fish.
The title of the thread is "Why is breastfeeding in public acceptable". If you want to go off and discuss something else, perhaps this isn't the thread for it? Is your only point really that you don't care either way? Because you could have written that a lot more succinctly, than those essays above!
I didn’t want to discuss it at all in fact, because I figured the OP had to be trolling. I posted on the thread and you can read my very first post, to correct another poster who was trying to misrepresent my opinions from another thread months ago, which had literally nothing to do with this one.
I have written it succinctly in previous posts too -
It’s not the breastfeeding in public that’s disgusting, it’s the exhibitionism in public and the antagonistic attitude that some people have who appear to go out of their way to draw attention to themselves. If they aren’t getting it from the general public at large, they’re guaranteed to get it on social media - positive or negative attention, doesn’t matter, the point for them is that they’re getting attention.
I’m sure you won’t recognise yourself in this list, but this is the type of person I’m talking about -
Is Your Mother an Exhibitionist Narcissist?I have no idea why you think any breastfeeding woman would need some random dude asking if he could help her breastfeed. :rolleyes: Naw lad, you're alright, she's got it.
:pac::pac::pac:
Because some women do look like they need a hand, not with the breastfeeding itself obviously but maybe a cup of tea or a newspaper or just a chat to get something off their chest. I also said that in my experience it’s appreciated, so while you might have no idea why a woman who is not you might need support, you can only speak for yourself, because you sure as hell can’t speak on behalf of all women, nor are you representative of all women, and all I can say is thank fcuk for that.0 -
One eyed Jack wrote: »You’re taking the piss volchista? You have gone out of your way to misrepresent my opinions on numerous occasions. I couldn’t trust you to sum up even this sentence without misrepresenting what I’m saying to suit your own prejudices.
Ah the old "ad hominem" classic. Old, tired and unconvincing, you need to do better Jack.
You literally said this:One eyed Jack wrote: »They’d eat what they were given, or die. What they were given would likely have consisted of mainly plant based nutrition, including milk from plants like I suggested earlier, long before breastfeeding was a thing -
The Evolution of Diet
And then this in the same post. Which is ironic.One eyed Jack wrote: »I know what you mean - I can’t decide if I’m being trolled or not or are people actually pretending they aren’t aware of stuff that could have been learned from a secondary school science book.0 -
Ah the old "ad hominem" classic. Old, tired and unconvincing, you need to do better.
My thoughts exactly as I read your post.
I also said earlier I wouldn’t respond to you again, so we’re done here.
Done with this thread actually tbh as it’s going nowhere and shouldn’t even have gone this far, and wouldn’t have gone this far if I hadn’t constantly to correct posters misrepresenting what I’d said. It’s not trolling to correct people when they’re purposely misrepresenting what you’ve said.0 -
One eyed Jack wrote: »My thoughts exactly as I read your post.
I also said earlier I wouldn’t respond to you again, so we’re done here.
Done with this thread actually tbh as it’s going nowhere and shouldn’t even have gone this far, and wouldn’t have gone this far if I hadn’t constantly to correct posters misrepresenting what I’d said. It’s not trolling to correct people when they’re purposely misrepresenting what you’ve said.
I quoted - more than once - where you literally said that. You must be misrepresenting yourself.0 -
Every time I see a thread like this it reinforces my belief that the breastfeeding isn't the thing that outrages the male posters against it, it's the fact that the woman has dared to use her breasts for a purpose other than to give them a boner and their egos can't take that.
It's not only men who are outraged, there are women who are outraged at the idea too.One eyed Jack wrote: »The sheer volume of reactions it generates both positive and negative would suggest that people even in this country alone, are divided on the issue, but it shouldn’t surprise anyone that posters here would have overwhelmingly positive opinions about it and try to portray anyone who disagrees with the idea of it being appropriate behaviour in public as abnormal.
Nestle and their ilk (scum), did a great job of promoting their inadequate product and making people think that breastfeeding isn't essential. Breastfeeding in public should not be shunned. There are laws to protect women who chose to breastfeed. A law was created because such ignorant people exist. It's madness.One eyed Jack wrote: »Nature doesn’t have an intent. There’s no specific reason has ever been determined as to why humans breastfeed (plenty of various theories put forward though), but it’s certainly not something nature intended.
??? Seriously? No reason to breastfeed? That's a ludicrous statement.One eyed Jack wrote: »Breastfeeding has enjoyed the odd resurgence throughout history before being seen as something only commoners do. It’s why in Victorian times they had wet nurses (something else that’s enjoying something of a resurgence on social justice media), but for the vast majority of people it’s nothing more than an unusual trend that comes and goes - one minute it’s trendy and new and ‘in yer face ye old fogey’, the next its been consigned to history as a primitive practice.
Well you can thank snobbery for that, and in more recent times scumbag companies like Nestle also helped with the positioning of breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is far from an "unusual trend".One eyed Jack wrote: »That’s a belief based upon culture rather than having any scientific basis. Given that they are biologically referred to as secondary sexual characteristics in mammals and the fact that only in humans females are the breasts permanently enlarged, alternative evolutionary theories suggest that their permanently enlarged state evolved that way to attract attention from potential mates. Point being really that there isn’t any such thing as the breasts having a “primary function” from a biological perspective at least. As I pointed out earlier in the thread - humans were once lactose intolerant, but evolved to tolerate lactose in milk, and we’re the only species which drinks the milk of other mammals too.
Maybe it was an evolutionary mistake. It could be that simple. Breasts grow when producing milk, however much that may be depends on the person.Soy milk would likely have been just as popular as breastfeeding, if it didn’t taste like shìte.
Based on what exactly?One eyed Jack wrote: »Formula milk doesn’t grow on trees. There are dozens of species of plants in various parts of the world which humans evolved to derive nourishment from that are just as natural as breast milk.
What plants will give the same nourishment as breast milk? Any of those plants produce colostrum?The mental gymnastics you have to do to chastise others for the 1000s of other things they could mention which aren’t related, yet you’re clinging to the idea that because humans learned to breastfeed, it should still be practiced today when there are literally dozens of alternatives to breastfeeding, let alone choosing to breastfeed in public. That’s what we’re talking about - not just breastfeeding, but breastfeeding in public.
There is no need to do it, some women choose to do it, and when one is doing something in public, then they’re choosing to make it the public’s business, and they have no control over how the public react to that. You can of course tell people to mind their own business, but the fact is that they are minding their own business when a woman chooses to make her breastfeeding her child everyone’s business, by doing it in public.
Demanding that people shouldn’t react the way they do is no different to them demanding that you don’t breastfeed in public. Their reaction is perfectly natural to your assertion that what you’re doing is perfectly natural (not you specifically, I mean any woman who chooses to breastfeed in public).
What a completely nonsensical post. You don't "need" to... Tell that to a baby that wants to be fed. You are suggesting using formula or "one of dozens" of other options (which you haven't mentioned yet) as a substitute for breast milk. Just so some immature fool doesn't get offended?
Why should my child ingest something created in a factory, which has less nutritional value than breast milk when in public? Have you ever tried to heat a bottle up on a train or bus in -20 degrees? I highly doubt it somehow.One eyed Jack wrote: »Don’t address any of the points anyway whatever you do. Make a pointless post lamenting what you deem a pointless post, that’ll learn ‘em :rolleyes:
That's kinda ironic.One eyed Jack wrote: »If the objective is to nourish an infant, then yes, there are dozens of alternative sources, means, and methods of delivery than breastfeeding. Formula just happens to be considered the most convenient in Western society, that’s why it’s preferred over breastfeeding, women just don’t have the time or the inclination to be arsed, frankly. That’s the reality of modern living in Western society.
Dozens, so at least 24 options. Name one option that is as convenient as the breast?
Using a strawman to back up your silly argument. Time and can't be arsed. How condescending.One eyed Jack wrote: »I don’t know, “monkey see, monkey do” is a fairly valid assumption that applies in human and animal behaviour, only humans had the capacity throughout history to develop alternative means of nourishing their infants so we didn’t have to breastfeed.
Would you believe that it's mainly the infant that leads when it comes to breastfeeding? The woman doesn't need to do much at all. If you ever seen a 2-3 minute old child crawling on the mother to find the breast. It's amazing. Mother doesn't need to do anything but let it happen and support the weight of the child.Jenna James wrote: »I personally dislike it but I guess it's a right.
The taste? Or the idea of breastfeeding? Why?One eyed Jack wrote: »Even Facebook up until recently banned sharing photos of breastfeeding as it was considered a violation of the company’s community standards -
https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/11/facebook-breastfeeding-photo-ban-lifted-freethenipple-campaign-pictures_n_5484788.html?guccounter=1
Well if Facebook says so, then it must be bad... :rolleyes:
Your points seem very philosophical to be honest, plenty of fluff. There's not a lot in there that would suggest you know anything about breastfeeding. Regards one of your earlier points. What food could you give a cave baby, in the first 10 minutes of it's life?
Had a conversation at the weekend with some friends regarding the topic. Ireland is a shíthole when it comes to children. Such a backwards mentality. There's shag all facilities in comparison to our neighbors. A draconian view on raising children and their well being. Is it a wonder why we have so many feral beasts roaming the streets?0 -
Originally Posted by Neyite View Post
Every time I see a thread like this it reinforces my belief that the breastfeeding isn't the thing that outrages the male posters against it, it's the fact that the woman has dared to use her breasts for a purpose other than to give them a boner and their egos can't take that.
All joking aside, but do you actually believe that?0 -
Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »All joking aside, but do you actually believe that?
Out of curiosity, where do you think the objections to breastfeeding in public actually come from? In people's minds, I mean?0 -
Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »All joking aside, but do you actually believe that?
Hey man, I want you to know I feel your pain. Like the idea that some people on this board could be so dumb, is both physically and psychologically traumatic.
I sometimes spontaneously wonder if people like that are just making it up - like nobody could seriously be that dumb. And a lot of the time I do believe it is kind of half-trolling, but a scary amount of it is real.0 -
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Naya Elegant Performance wrote: »Nestle and their ilk (scum), did a great job of promoting their inadequate product and making people think that breastfeeding isn't essential. Breastfeeding in public should not be shunned. There are laws to protect women who chose to breastfeed. A law was created because such ignorant people exist. It's madness.
People were looking for alternatives to breast milk long before Nestle and other manufacturers ever became popular among new mothers who had paediatricians like Benjamin Spock telling them they know more than they think they do. It was demand rather than supply which drove the popularisation of alternatives to breast milk, and that was in a society of increasing industrialisation and an increase in women entering the labour market. It was essentially economic factors which drove the adoption of artificial alternatives to breast milk.Naya Elegant Performance wrote: »??? Seriously? No reason to breastfeed? That's a ludicrous statement.
I said there’s no specific reason has ever been determined as to why humans breastfeed. Plenty of theories put forward from an evolutionary perspective, such as the idea that humans had evolved with mammary glands and nipples before they were ever human, before evolution branched off into mammals, birds and amphibians. It’s a bit like the question of which came first - the chicken or the egg?Naya Elegant Performance wrote: »Well you can thank snobbery for that, and in more recent times scumbag companies like Nestle also helped with the positioning of breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is far from an "unusual trend".
I said - for the vast majority of people, it is an unusual trend, as opposed to the usual trend which is opting for artificial nutrition instead of breastfeeding. Of course we can thank snobbery for a lot of both it’s increase and decline, and we can also thank diets, disease and unsanitary conditions throughout history and cultures. Formula milk is a relatively recent idea in human history.Naya Elegant Performance wrote: »Maybe it was an evolutionary mistake. It could be that simple. Breasts grow when producing milk, however much that may be depends on the person.
See that right there is essentially the thing that bothers me the most, and it goes back to assuming all sorts about primary functions and so on. Evolution simply doesn’t make mistakes. Evolution is all about adaptation, each mutation is an adaptation. Humans as we appear today are but a blip in terms of the scale of evolution itself. That’s the theory behind natural selection. It’s been theorised that at some point men were able to nurse infants too, but for unknown reasons men’s mammary glands went the way of the Gartner’s duct in women.Naya Elegant Performance wrote: »Based on what exactly?
Based upon how evolution happens.Naya Elegant Performance wrote: »What plants will give the same nourishment as breast milk? Any of those plants produce colostrum?
None of them. I didn’t suggest that any of them would either. That’s kinda the point of suggesting that they are alternatives to human breast milk. In the story I linked to earlier of the woman who appeared on the cover of TIME magazine, circumstances called for her medical team to consider alternatives for the infant such as soy milk -
About 12 hours after my son was born, the doctor's debated whether to give soy or cow's milk formula to my baby. Many preemies have lactose intolerance and also sometimes soy allergies.
As was pointed out by another poster - it’s not recommended for infants before six months, but it’s an alternative, and just to clarify - I wouldn’t recommend it either.Naya Elegant Performance wrote: »What a completely nonsensical post. You don't "need" to... Tell that to a baby that wants to be fed. You are suggesting using formula or "one of dozens" of other options (which you haven't mentioned yet) as a substitute for breast milk. Just so some immature fool doesn't get offended?
Why should my child ingest something created in a factory, which has less nutritional value than breast milk when in public? Have you ever tried to heat a bottle up on a train or bus in -20 degrees? I highly doubt it somehow.
I think I’d sooner tell the person who is tasked with feeding the baby than telling the baby anything - point being that babies will ingest alternatives to breast milk. It has nothing to do with whether or not some immature fool gets offended. You’re offended at the suggestion of alternatives, but I wouldn’t call you an immature fool for it. The point is that it is about people knowing they have choices. Choices are good. It means not being limited to breastfeeding and feeling like shìte if it isn’t happening for any one of an infinite number of reasons.
I don’t know about you but where I come from, the physical and mental health of the person or people with responsibility for caring for the infant is of equal importance as the physical and mental health of the infant. If the physical and mental health of the people responsible for caring for the infant is compromised, that undoubtedly has a knock-on effect on the health of the infant. I haven’t ever tried to heat a bottle up at -20 degrees, but I have seen the guilt experienced by many women who have been unable to breastfeed for that same infinite number of reasons, which weren’t helped by their experiences of “overly enthusiastic” midwifes and family members and friends with a mixture of condemnation and coercion to try and get the women to breastfeed.
All that being said, I never said you should do anything. I’m saying that you’re failing to even consider any of the infinite number of reasons why women choose not to breastfeed, in favour of coming to the conclusion you have that it could only be because of the risk of offending some immature fool. There are plenty more reasons besides that. I would suggest it’s not even the main one. Many women themselves feel uncomfortable breastfeeding in public because it’s not something they normally do themselves or have ever done, until of course they gave birth. It’s the intimidation of it being a new experience and one that many women are just uncomfortable with. Even an immature fool like me can understand that much, and I’m not in the least bit offended by it :pac:Naya Elegant Performance wrote: »Dozens, so at least 24 options. Name one option that is as convenient as the breast?
I think it’s a question for every individual as to what option is more convenient for them, than someone else suggesting options that they deem to be the most convenient. Breastfeeding may be convenient for you, it may be inconvenient for someone who isn’t you. That shouldn’t be a hard concept to grasp, and yet for some people it is as they’re so myopically minded on the idea that “breast is best”, with no consideration given to the fact that other people are in different circumstances to them.Naya Elegant Performance wrote: »Using a strawman to back up your silly argument. Time and can't be arsed. How condescending.
It wasn’t a strawman, and it wasn’t intended to be condescending either. I’m not sure why you took it that way but it was a rather informal observation of a reality based upon my experience. When women I know have given birth, their lives don’t just stop to give them time to have their life revolve around their new infant. Breastfeeding takes a considerable amount of time that many women in my experience at least simply have said they don’t have time to devote the time and the effort necessary to do it. This is borne out by numerous surveys which see a significant drop-off in breastfeeding rates as soon as women leave the hospital after giving birth.Naya Elegant Performance wrote: »Would you believe that it's mainly the infant that leads when it comes to breastfeeding? The woman doesn't need to do much at all. If you ever seen a 2-3 minute old child crawling on the mother to find the breast. It's amazing. Mother doesn't need to do anything but let it happen and support the weight of the child.
I’d genuinely like to believe that, but would you believe that hasn’t been my experience? I’m afraid I haven’t been fortunate enough to witness the phenomenon you describe. It does sound amazing, nothing like the reality of witnessing my wife giving birth, and frankly it’s not something I ever want to witness again.Naya Elegant Performance wrote: »Your points seem very philosophical to be honest, plenty of fluff. There's not a lot in there that would suggest you know anything about breastfeeding. Regards one of your earlier points. What food could you give a cave baby, in the first 10 minutes of it's life?
Well of course there’s not a lot in my posts that would suggest I know anything about breastfeeding because the fact is, like most people - I don’t know a lot about breastfeeding. Like most people I haven’t studied the subject in any great detail, unlike the scientists and medical professionals who specialise in the subject. I don’t imagine a woman having given birth who chooses to breastfeed, makes her any more of an expert than I’m not. It gives her an insight into her own experience of the process certainly, and I would never deny she is an expert if the subject was herself. It doesn’t mean she is an expert on the subject of breastfeeding though. That would be like me suggesting I know more about adult congenital hip dysplasia than the world-renowned orthopaedic consultant who operated on me. The reality is of course that while I know what it’s like to experience the condition, I know as much about the condition itself as I do about breastfeeding - not a whole lot. In a similar fashion, because a woman gives birth doesn’t make her an expert on the subject of infant nutrition, childcare and human development, etc. The reality is that most parents will do what works for them in their circumstances as opposed to what works for someone who isn’t them, in other circumstances.0 -
Breastfeeding Is a Dynamic Biological Process—Not Simply a Meal at the BreastOne eyed Jack wrote: »
I said there’s no specific reason has ever been determined as to why humans breastfeed. Plenty of theories put forward from an evolutionary perspective, such as the idea that humans had evolved with mammary glands and nipples before they were ever human, before evolution branched off into mammals, birds and amphibians. It’s a bit like the question of which came first - the chicken or the egg?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3199546/
I think @one eyed Jack never had a breast milk ... Jealous much ?0 -
I not going to pretend to know the evolution of my mammary glands and neither did it matter a feck when I had my children.
I can only comment on my own and my friends experiences post childbirth.
There is definitely a physical sensation/compulsion in your boobs to breastfeed your newborn.
Once the milk had "come in" (depending on the mother this could take days) some did, some didn't and some just plain couldn't breastfeed.
It's a time in a woman's life when they really need support in all aspects, regardless of their choice to breastfeed or not.
People should really just mind their own business imo.0 -
Breastfeeding advocates cannot possibly compete with the huge IRISH manufacturers of formula milk; there simply isn’t the cash to advertise, and clearly the revenue globally from formula is far too lucrative for our government to do the right thing in a real campaign to promote it. Having said that, I breastfed my children for more than 2 years each, and I don’t remember a single occasion where anyone at all was bothered by it in public. I suspect that a few posters are just stirring, in the knowledge that they’ll get a reaction.
Advertising (although in theory regulated, to promote breast as best) uses subtle tricks to make the bottle look like the preferable option, otherwise it would be a pointless exercise. Look closely next time; the breastfeeding mother with her blouse pulled down awkwardly to one side, compared with the smiling relaxed bottle feeder!
Below is from 2015, taken from the Farmers Journal.
Ireland supplies 10% of all global infant milk formula – Bord Bia
Irish infant formula exports in 2015 reached €1.5bn and now account for 35% of all dairy exports.
Lorcan Allen on 13 Jan 2016
Infant formula exports to China grew by 25% in 2015 to reach €400m.
Infant formula produced in Ireland accounts for 10% of the global market, according to the latest export figures released by Bord Bia on Wednesday morning. The lucrative baby formula market, valued at in the region of $35bn in retail sales per annum, has expanded rapidly over the last decade as the rising middle classes in developing countries fuelled infant formula sales.0 -
Can't believe there is so much hot-headed debate about it really. Breastfeeding is perfectly grand, though some discretion is appreciated in some scenarios (that does not mean slinking off to the toilets). Is there really any more to say than that, from any angle of the argument?0
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This is some thread I think it should be closed for sheer stupidity. Humans can survive without breastfeeding but there isn't a reputable professional that rates supplements higher. Evolution is ALWAYS best.
The comments on males getting boners is disgusting and one of the reasons why males might prefer if it wasn't allowed, we are damned either way. But thankfully most people are not so stupid.
Anyway it is natural and should be fine in public, anyone that cares is a fossil.0 -
I breastfed my babies, I never got a negative comment or reaction from men but I did from other women.0
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TerrorFirmer wrote: »Can't believe there is so much hot-headed debate about it really. Breastfeeding is perfectly grand, though some discretion is appreciated in some scenarios (that does not mean slinking off to the toilets). Is there really any more to say than that, from any angle of the argument?
Maybe the person horrified at the sight of a baby being fed should go and eat their meal in the toilet, leave the kid where they are!
A while back I came home and my missus's friend was in the house, she had her new(ish) baby 3 or 4 months old on her lap. I hadn't seen the kid before so I automatically walked over to have a look. It was only when I bent over and rubbed his cheek that I realised she was actually breastfeeding him, a bit embarrassing for everyone but sure shít happens - even then I couldn't see much. You would really need to perv hard to be shocked or offended!0 -
Join Date:Posts: 25439
Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »All joking aside, but do you actually believe that?
When it's debated on here, pretty much yeah. Many of the same posters would yell "wahhhey" if a woman flashed her breasts on a night out. They like seeing the female characters topless on Game of Thrones. So why do those same people shudder with disgust when a woman gets her boobs out for a baby? Because it reminds them of the other, primary function of breasts and they don't like that reminder intruding on their fantasy.
I breastfed for a year. Did it as and when necessary wherever it was required. Whether that was out and about or at home. I never got any objection, and none of the disgust or vitriol in person that I encounter on here. In real life very few would vocalise what they post on here though.
It's the most instinctual thing humans can do. Immediately after birth, the nurse placed the baby on my chest and he immediately began rooting around looking for it - he didn't see other babies and decide he was going to try it, or attend la leche league meetings. He just instinctively knew what he needed to do, and it was pretty cool watching that.0 -
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One eyed Jack wrote: »It was essentially economic factors which drove the adoption of artificial alternatives to breastmilk feeding.
FYP. Economic factors meant women had less time to breast feed- the milk itself is still what is best for the baby.One eyed Jack wrote: »None of them. I didn’t suggest that any of them would either. That’s kinda the point of suggesting that they are alternatives to human breast milk. In the story I linked to earlier of the woman who appeared on the cover of TIME magazine, circumstances called for her medical team to consider alternatives for the infant such as soy milk -
About 12 hours after my son was born, the doctor's debated whether to give soy or cow's milk formula to my baby. Many preemies have lactose intolerance and also sometimes soy allergies.
Look at your own post. Where is the source? We don't know what that woman's circumstances were. Her baby was premature. The baby could have had any number of issues meaning that breastfeeding/ milk weren't possibilities for whatever reason.One eyed Jack wrote: »I don’t know about you but where I come from, the physical and mental health of the person or people with responsibility for caring for the infant is of equal importance as the physical and mental health of the infant. If the physical and mental health of the people responsible for caring for the infant is compromised, that undoubtedly has a knock-on effect on the health of the infant. I haven’t ever tried to heat a bottle up at -20 degrees, but I have seen the guilt experienced by many women who have been unable to breastfeed for that same infinite number of reasons, which weren’t helped by their experiences of “overly enthusiastic” midwifes and family members and friends with a mixture of condemnation and coercion to try and get the women to breastfeed.
We're getting somewhere now. Society needs to provide practical tools rather than the mammy midwife lecture on why it's "best". Lactation consultants etc. With help and proper understanding of how it works (for example it can and usually is DAYS before the milk comes in and that the baby doesn't starve in this time). I would wager a guess that most women are able, or else how would we have survived as a species, they are just unaware of how to do it.One eyed Jack wrote: »It wasn’t a strawman, and it wasn’t intended to be condescending either. I’m not sure why you took it that way but it was a rather informal observation of a reality based upon my experience. When women I know have given birth, their lives don’t just stop to give them time to have their life revolve around their new infant. Breastfeeding takes a considerable amount of time that many women in my experience at least simply have said they don’t have time to devote the time and the effort necessary to do it. This is borne out by numerous surveys which see a significant drop-off in breastfeeding rates as soon as women leave the hospital after giving birth.
My life certainly didn't stop. I had to go back at work when my baby was 3 months old but continued to feed with only breastmilk until 6 months and weaning onto solid food, supplemented until about 8 months- my commute was an hour each way. I made a choice to breastfeed and I was fully prepared for it, even though I'll admit it was difficult I'm glad I did it. But that was what I chose and I don't care what anyone else chooses. I won't be labelled as "judgy" just because someone else doesn't do it.One eyed Jack wrote: »I’d genuinely like to believe that, but would you believe that hasn’t been my experience? I’m afraid I haven’t been fortunate enough to witness the phenomenon you describe. It does sound amazing, nothing like the reality of witnessing my wife giving birth, and frankly it’s not something I ever want to witness again.
It's very common, it will happen in all straightforward cases if you let it. I didn't believe it until I saw it but my baby was latched on probably within 2 hours of me giving birth, suckling away at nothing :pac:One eyed Jack wrote: »Well of course there’s not a lot in my posts that would suggest I know anything about breastfeeding because the fact is, like most people - I don’t know a lot about breastfeeding.
You should have started and ended with this bit to be fair0
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