Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

everlast75

Meanwhile, Rudy just can't help himself.Some of this interview is more than crazy



https://twitter.com/Olivianuzzi/status/1209174023944450053?s=19

looksee

Its absolutely useless looking for rationality or sense in US politics at the moment. How can anyone suggest that a person who could make the 'windmill' speech of yesterday is in any way fit to run a country? He has achieved cult status and the Republicans are putting party way before country. It is impossible to understand what is going on in the minds of the people who are backing him, is he being 'managed' to not do any serious damage, or is there an element of luck so far? The situation is frightening, democracy is gone. Who is actually pulling the strings?

everlast75

looksee wrote: »

Its absolutely useless looking for rationality or sense in US politics at the moment. How can anyone suggest that a person who could make the 'windmill' speech of yesterday is in any way fit to run a country? He has achieved cult status and the Republicans are putting party way before country. It is impossible to understand what is going on in the minds of the people who are backing him, is he being 'managed' to not do any serious damage, or is there an element of luck so far? The situation is frightening, democracy is gone. Who is actually pulling the strings?

With all due respect, i hope you are not trying to "both sides" this situation.

Trump supporters have resorted to their last line of defence, "this is boring" or "both sides are as bad as each other". They want people to disengage. They want people to lose interest because the more people learn about this "drug deal" (John Bolton) the worse it looks for Trump. So what they are doing is making it more tribal, while spinning more and more bull****. It's exhausting but for the sake of democracy, without any sense of hyperbole, the public had better stay clued in.

looksee

everlast75 wrote: »

With all due respect, i hope you are not trying to "both sides" this situation.

Trump supporters have resorted to their last line of defence, "this is boring" or "both sides are as bad as each other". They want people to disengage. They want people to lose interest because the more people learn about this "drug deal" (John Bolton) the worse it looks for Trump. So what they are doing is making it more tribal, while spinning more and more bull****. It's exhausting but for the sake of democracy, without any sense of hyperbole, the public had better stay clued in.

I don't think I gave that impression, did I? I am absolutely not defending him and I didn't mention the Democrats at all. I am left boggled by the total lack of integrity, honesty or sincerity on the part of Trump supporters. They have gone so far past rationality over him that you have to wonder what is making them tick? The man is so obviously not well (and thus not fit to be president) but his supporters don't even have any empathy with his state of mind. They are not seeing a person though, they are looking at the leader of a cult.

However as a non-American, living in Ireland, there does come a time when, like the UK, I feel I have to say, well just get on with it, you deserve what you get in terms of government. It is unfortunate that your machinations will have knock-on effects on other nations though.

everlast75

looksee wrote: »

I don't think I gave that impression, did I? I am absolutely not defending him and I didn't mention the Democrats at all. I am left boggled by the total lack of integrity, honesty or sincerity on the part of Trump supporters. They have gone so far past rationality over him that you have to wonder what is making them tick? The man is so obviously not well (and thus not fit to be president) but his supporters don't even have any empathy with his state of mind. They are not seeing a person though, they are looking at the leader of a cult.

However as a non-American, living in Ireland, there does come a time when, like the UK, I feel I have to say, well just get on with it, you deserve what you get in terms of government. It is unfortunate that your machinations will have knock-on effects on other nations though.

You're opening line is...

"Its absolutely useless looking for rationality or sense in US politics at the moment."

I accept you didn't mean Democrats in that, but that is what it sounded like.

That last line though - is it fair to say they deserve what they get? 3m people more voted for HRC and the population are being lied to and gaslighting is rampant. All politicians lie - but this is nothing like we have seen before. See McCarthy and his latest propaganda interview.

I'd say the Trump base (30%) deserve what they get. They know what he is.

The only pity is that one of the States can't secede, all Trump supporters move there and allow Trump to govern and ultimately take them down with him.

26000 Elephants

Carcharodon wrote: »

The impeachment charge is too boring, it needs to be sexier for the general public to be more engaged in, fight now its the same old same old, doesn’t matter what the charge is, it needed to be something that really stoood out, this charge falls reallly flat, sad but true

Yeah, if only they could amend the constitution to specify "really woke crimes and misdemeanors" instead if boring old "high crimes and misdemeanors" life would be much more interesting.

Bloody boomers, eh?

Just as well the impeachment inquiry is still very much alive: as soon as the SC puts an end to Trumps stonewalling on his financials, withheld WH documents and witnesses prevented from testifying, I'd say the publics need for 'sexier' will be met better than a 12 month pornhub subscription.

pixelburp

Sarcasm is all well and good but it's not without some truth; wiretaps and blowjobs are seedy and box office, and as blatantly illegal as the Ukrainian scandal is, it's illegality on the geopolitical stage, not the sordid one rubberneckers might gawp at. You're just not going to engage the American public on something that's so less illicit; any other country it'd be a mainstream scandal, but in America it'll struggle to get the public outraged.

Thargor

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Fox News is working overtime to undermine the House's Impeachment of the President..

The propaganda war is now in full swing. Truth is defined by one's beliefs and opinions. Lies have become the projectiles of day to day warring between the parties. Honesty is dead, and anyone who seeks truth can only be disappointed or duped.

Liars are sacrificing the rights of the people to the gods of power on the alter of spin and bull****..

Really? What lies are the non-Trump/Fox parties throwing in this contest?

weisses

everlast75 wrote: »

You're opening line is...

"Its absolutely useless looking for rationality or sense in US politics at the moment."

I accept you didn't mean Democrats in that, but that is what it sounded like

They could have had Bernie in the oval office now if it wasn't for the dirty political games that got Hillary the primaries.. Dems are perfectly able to abandon rationale.

In the end it takes two to tango

26000 Elephants

pixelburp wrote: »

Sarcasm is all well and good but it's not without some truth; wiretaps and blowjobs are seedy and box office, and as blatantly illegal as the Ukrainian scandal is, it's illegality on the geopolitical stage, not the sordid one rubberneckers might gawp at. You're just not going to engage the American public on something that's so less illicit; any other country it'd be a mainstream scandal, but in America it'll struggle to get the public outraged.

'Box office' has never been a standard to be reached in law. It's either legal or illegal. How its marketed, or more accurately, how you allow it be marketed to you, is entirely subjective. Trump could be reelected in the face of certain conviction on these charges, but that's down to the electorate. A reflection on what they hold important, not on the illegality or otherwise of his actions.

Leroy42

pixelburp wrote: »

Sarcasm is all well and good but it's not without some truth; wiretaps and blowjobs are seedy and box office, and as blatantly illegal as the Ukrainian scandal is, it's illegality on the geopolitical stage, not the sordid one rubberneckers might gawp at. You're just not going to engage the American public on something that's so less illicit; any other country it'd be a mainstream scandal, but in America it'll struggle to get the public outraged.

Yet we have already had affairs and cover up payments, convicted lawyers and convicted NSA.

And none of it has made a difference to the base.

The charge of 'boring' is just a line to try to drive a narrative that nobody cares, when it is totally irrelevant. Impeachment has nothing to do with popular support, it has to do with the constitution.

pixelburp

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yet we have already had affairs and cover up payments, convicted lawyers and convicted NSA.

And none of it has made a difference to the base.

The charge of 'boring' is just a line to try to drive a narrative that nobody cares, when it is totally irrelevant. Impeachment has nothing to do with popular support, it has to do with the constitution.

But faced against the nature of the melodramatic news cycle in America, it is boring because that's where the discourse has descended. I'm not disagreeing with the illegality of the act, nor indeed the need to pursue prosecution thereof, but in terms of engaging popular opinion against Trump I would totally understand why this impeachment might struggle.

America is still a heavily puritanical country at heart so sexual crimes and adventures will turn heads sooner than geopolitical ones. Polls still support impeachment, and partisanship will ensure the senate voted against it, but in terms of the news cycle? I doubt the great unwashed care past a certain point, or those already invested in the presidency.

listermint

weisses wrote: »

They could have had Bernie in the oval office now if it wasn't for the dirty political games that got Hillary the primaries.. Dems are perfectly able to abandon rationale.

In the end it takes two to tango

I'm sorry but this sort of crap needs to be called out. Let's say Bernie got through the Dems. He would have suffered the same level fest Corbyn got from the media in the UK abject lies and fear of socialism. On what planet do you think Bernie would have won against trunk given the scale of anti social ideas in the US media. Dominated by billionaires ..

Leroy42

pixelburp wrote: »

But faced against the nature of the melodramatic news cycle in America, it is boring because that's where the discourse has descended. I'm not disagreeing with the illegality of the act, nor indeed the need to pursue prosecution thereof, but in terms of engaging popular opinion against Trump I would totally understand why this impeachment might struggle.

America is still a heavily puritanical country at heart so sexual crimes and adventures will turn heads sooner than geopolitical ones. Polls still support impeachment, and partisanship will ensure the senate voted against it, but in terms of the news cycle? I doubt the great unwashed care past a certain point, or those already invested in the presidency.

The point is that it has nothing to do with it being boring, the previous scandals were brushed off.

It is all because the GOP, Fox and his supporters will never accept anything against him.

aloyisious

Carcharodon wrote: »

The impeachment charge is too boring, it needs to be sexier for the general public to be more engaged in, fight now its the same old same old, doesn’t matter what the charge is, it needed to be something that really stoood out, this charge falls reallly flat, sad but true

Recommendations?

EltonJohn69

everlast75 wrote: »

Meanwhile, Rudy just can't help himself.Some of this interview is more than crazy



https://twitter.com/Olivianuzzi/status/1209174023944450053?s=19

That was a great read

weisses

listermint wrote: »

I'm sorry but this sort of crap needs to be called out. Let's say Bernie got through the Dems. He would have suffered the same level fest Corbyn got from the media in the UK abject lies and fear of socialism. On what planet do you think Bernie would have won against trunk given the scale of anti social ideas in the US media. Dominated by billionaires ..

I don't think Bernie was as hated by the people as Hillary was. Many..many people would have voted for Bernie but instead voted Trump because they couldn't stand Hillary ... White working class voters in the swing states that voted Trump for instance

Sanders could have beaten Trump

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/11/09/bernie-sanders-donald-trump/93530352/


But kudos for completely missing the point I was making ... Next time you want to call out crap at least offer more then an ill informed opinion

Thargor

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/475701-trump-rails-against-windmills-i-never-understood-wind

His speech seems to be really deteriorating in recent weeks, the debates should be entertaining, I expect we'll see a total lockdown on any proper debate and it will be all pre-prepared statements and soundbites.

“I never understood wind,” Trump said, according to Mediaite. “I know windmills very much, I have studied it better than anybody. I know it is very expensive. They are made in China and Germany mostly, very few made here, almost none, but they are manufactured, tremendous — if you are into this — tremendous fumes and gases are spewing into the atmosphere. You know we have a world, right?”

“So the world is tiny compared to the universe. So tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything. You talk about the carbon footprint, fumes are spewing into the air, right spewing, whether it is China or Germany, is going into the air,” the president added.

StringerBell

weisses wrote: »

I don't think Bernie was as hated by the people as Hillary was. Many..many people would have voted for Bernie but instead voted Trump because they couldn't stand Hillary ... White working class voters in the swing states that voted Trump for instance

Sanders could have beaten Trump

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/11/09/bernie-sanders-donald-trump/93530352/


But kudos for completely missing the point I was making ... Next time you want to call out crap at least offer more then an ill informed opinion

I would also be quite sceptical that Bernie could have won the general in 2016 tbh.

Winning the nomination against Clinton would have been one thing but the actual general election is another thing entirely.

He might have a chance this time around, but being honest I don't think does. I would have been absolutely stunned if he managed it in 2016 though.

Gbear

StringerBell wrote: »

I would also be quite sceptical that Bernie could have won the general in 2016 tbh.

Winning the nomination against Clinton would have been one thing but the actual general election is another thing entirely.

He might have a chance this time around, but being honest I don't think does. I would have been absolutely stunned if he managed it in 2016 though.

It's worth drilling down into how it would've changed.

Where would he have done worse? Where would he have done better?

I do think he would've done better in the 3 key states that swung the election. What other swing states would he have contested that would've gone for Trump that went for Hillary?

It's not enough to use a broad brush to gauge it. Not when there was such a tiny margin.

hotmail.com

looksee wrote: »

Its absolutely useless looking for rationality or sense in US politics at the moment. How can anyone suggest that a person who could make the 'windmill' speech of yesterday is in any way fit to run a country? He has achieved cult status and the Republicans are putting party way before country. It is impossible to understand what is going on in the minds of the people who are backing him, is he being 'managed' to not do any serious damage, or is there an element of luck so far? The situation is frightening, democracy is gone. Who is actually pulling the strings?

You probably can't understand because you aren't American? Or don't live there?

Democracy is not gone. Soon, either next year or in 5 years, the Dems will be back in power and the other side will be giving out.

The windmill speech was hilarious, not frightening at all.

Water John

Oh, didn't realise it was a comedy sketch.

Leroy42

hotmail.com wrote: »

You probably can't understand because you aren't American? Or don't live there?

Democracy is not gone. Soon, either next year or in 5 years, the Dems will be back in power and the other side will be giving out.

The windmill speech was hilarious, not frightening at all.

Was he trying to be funny?

pixelburp

hotmail.com wrote: »

You probably can't understand because you aren't American? Or don't live there?

Democracy is not gone. Soon, either next year or in 5 years, the Dems will be back in power and the other side will be giving out.

The windmill speech was hilarious, not frightening at all.

It can be both. Barely intelligible nonsense rambling from the most powerful politician in the world is perversely amusing yes, but very disquieting at the same time. As to this "so it goes" attitude, a lot of change will persist past Trump, not least the various judicial appointments he has made throughout his term. It's not as ephemeral as you might like to claim.

aloyisious

hotmail.com wrote: »

You probably can't understand because you aren't American? Or don't live there?

Democracy is not gone. Soon, either next year or in 5 years, the Dems will be back in power and the other side will be giving out.

The windmill speech was hilarious, not frightening at all.

Given how the present administration and it's directly-linked party is handling nonpartisan politics and the follow-on effect that deliberate policy is having on the body public, how do you think things can improve by the mere changing of party governance from GOP to Dem without a wholesale change of attitude in the GOP?

You've mentioned the other side [which then would be the GOP] giving out and I cant help but think given its current attitude towards having a reasonable relationship in Congress and Senate with the Dems, its not good for the future of democracy in the US. Maybe we don't understand how democracy "work's" in the US but maybe we understand the fundamentals of it better than the GOP does.

Democracy is not something anyone should think Don has a right to make jokes about with the complicity of the GOP. The attitude displayed by the GOP leadership in the senate towards giving Don a free ride in the senate shouts out loud how it views its duty and obligations to defend the constitution, which at present stinks.

listermint

weisses wrote: »

I don't think Bernie was as hated by the people as Hillary was. Many..many people would have voted for Bernie but instead voted Trump because they couldn't stand Hillary ... White working class voters in the swing states that voted Trump for instance

Sanders could have beaten Trump

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/11/09/bernie-sanders-donald-trump/93530352/


But kudos for completely missing the point I was making ... Next time you want to call out crap at least offer more then an ill informed opinion

Missing the point ?

I knew what point your were trying to make..

It's utterly nonsense to have the opinion that Bernie would have made it to the White House. You clearly haven't a breeze of the level of money and resources that would have been throw to out him as a commie.


Kudos for coming in with pie in the sky fanciful notions of someone with social views making it past the corporate media mafia in the states.

hotmail.com

pixelburp wrote: »

It can be both. Barely intelligible nonsense rambling from the most powerful politician in the world is perversely amusing yes, but very disquieting at the same time. As to this "so it goes" attitude, a lot of change will persist past Trump, not least the various judicial appointments he has made throughout his term. It's not as ephemeral as you might like to claim.

And why we would care about judicial appointments?

pixelburp

hotmail.com wrote: »

And why we would care about judicial appointments?

Because you were the one saying his presence is transient, when his actions will affect the judiciary in the states up to and including the Supreme Court. His footprint will be larger than you claim, and not the rotating door you might think.

hotmail.com

aloyisious wrote: »

Given how the present administration and it's directly-linked party is handling nonpartisan politics and the follow-on effect that deliberate policy is having on the body public, how do you think things can improve by the mere changing of party governance from GOP to Dem without a wholesale change of attitude in the GOP?

You've mentioned the other side [which then would be the GOP] giving out and I cant help but think given its current attitude towards having a reasonable relationship in Congress and Senate with the Dems, its not good for the future of democracy in the US. Maybe we don't understand how democracy "work's" in the US but maybe we understand the fundamentals of it better than the GOP does.

Democracy is not something anyone should think Don has a right to make jokes about with the complicity of the GOP. The attitude displayed by the GOP leadership in the senate towards giving Don a free ride in the senate shouts out loud how it views its duty and obligations to defend the constitution, which at present stinks.

I find the admiration Irish people have for the US Constitution startling and weird.

The future of democracy. What about the present? Over 50% of the US electorate don't vote and corporations/donors give vast and disgusting sums of money to both parties. So let's not lecture about the future.

hotmail.com

pixelburp wrote: »

Because you were the one saying his presence is transient, when his actions will affect the judiciary in the states up to and including the Supreme Court. His footprint will be larger than you claim, and not the rotating door you might think.

The Supreme Court doesn't affect us though?