Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

check_six

aloyisious wrote: »

Simple question to the GOP Senators: All your president had to do was say to his AG "I have been told that high profile US citizens have been involved in deals with a Ukraine firm and that one of the citizens has boasted that he got the corruption prosecutor fired for looking into the firm's affairs. I want you to contact the Ukraine AG, inform him of the story, ask him if he is aware of it and tell him the US will assist at formal inter-state level if they might wish to talk to any US citizen/s". Tell him I have instructed you to keep me updated on the matter and Ukraine's response". Now why do you think your president did not do that instead of launching a private investigation by his lawyer into another country's internal business?

What Don and Rudy hatched up and went forward with, private investigation wise, was totally unnecessary and avoidable. All else followed on from their joint actions.

You know if he wanted to be sneaky and machiavellian about it he would never have been called out for his actions. There would not be such a big obvious corrupt action to hang an impeachment from. It could have been done in a much more subtle fashion.

Why was it done in such a blatant manner? Is it just a lifetime of getting away with obvious scams? Does he just not know what is and is not legal? Is this hubris? An elaborate trolling exercise?

Why do we never see some cunning sneaky manoeuver? Fundamentally, why is every single action done in the most stupid manner possible? All the corruption is thrown right in our faces.

peddlelies

Should have hired a shady firm like Fusion GPS to do all the digging. What's unbelievable to me is that the firms head, Glenn Simpson, met before and after the meeting with that Russian lawyer on the very day she ended up in Trump tower. Coincidences apparently, I find it hard to believe.

Igotadose

aloyisious wrote: »

Bloomberg HD Sky channel 502. This is another link I got from the Net.. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-12/fed-to-adjust-limit-for-some-daily-overnight-repo-operations. Just copy and re-open on another page if it doesn't open for you here.

Bloomberg have a cookies notice on it when it opens but it doesn't stop reading the content online.

If it doesn't work, try this. Fed Aims Half-Trillion Dollar Funding Hose ... - bloomberg.com
Ignore the yahoo item at top of page and open the Bloomberg one under it.

Thanks, it's indeed what I thought, repos being financed by the Fed due to lack of liquidity in the market. This is economically very scary - the amount seems way more than is normally done (atop what I think were 3 interventions already by the Fed.) FWIW, this IS the Fed's job, but the credit market shouldn't seize up so badly. Here's an analysis from earlier this year when the Fed did another intervention: https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/15/federal-reserve-funding-markets-071142


This has nothing to do with tax-cut induced stock buybacks, this is in my opinion more fundamental. Banks are being demanded of credit. They don't have enough money on hand to issue credit, the overnight rate goes up. Fed intervenes - but why is the credit demand spiking so much more than in the past? The 'spiking' that drove this recent and earlier intervention were credit for corporations paying taxes. Scary stuff.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-repo-tools-explainer/repo-is-wall-streets-big-year-end-worry-why-idUSKBN1YG1UE

Itssoeasy

I see that the trump White House is further restricting the official who are listening in on his calls.

everlast75

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I see that the trump White House is further restricting the official who are listening in on his calls.

Why would he have a problem with people listening to his perfect calls?

Dohnjoe

Pretty sure the play from Trump's camp will be to continue to treat and label the whole process as a partisan witch-hunt, but heavily emphasize that the only legitimate part in all of it will be the senate vote - which will admonish Trump. Then they will celebrate that as a victory, on top of the "victory" against Muellers investigation

Itssoeasy

everlast75 wrote: »

Why would he have a problem with people listening to his perfect calls?

well because going on the one from July 25th of this year he's liable to far from perfect calls and put his foot in it. I wonder when trump is talking about a perfect call is he talking about the quality of the phone line ?

aloyisious

Igotadose wrote: »

This has nothing to do with tax-cut induced stock buybacks, this is in my opinion more fundamental. Banks are being demanded of credit. They don't have enough money on hand to issue credit, the overnight rate goes up. Fed intervenes - but why is the credit demand spiking so much more than in the past? The 'spiking' that drove this recent and earlier intervention were credit for corporations paying taxes. Scary stuff.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-repo-tools-explainer/repo-is-wall-streets-big-year-end-worry-why-idUSKBN1YG1UE

If all is rosy in the economy, then the corporations should be in profit without any cashflow problems to pay corporations taxes and have no need for credit from the banks to pay the taxes [or so I would have thought]. The banks would be reasonably well off with lodgements from the profitable corporations and should have no need for Fed top-ups. If I read your post above correctly, the corollary is that all is not right in the garden [chaunchy gardener]. It'd put a different slant on why Don insisted the corporations [read businesses] get tax reductions, and why he's been on the Fed chairman's back so much, it wasn't for buy-backs. it was because they are cash deficient. It looks like Don may be in charge of yet another company going into bankruptcy, only this time it's the US nation. No wonder the GOP are sticking with him, they put him in the job and fessing-up is something they wont do.

26000 Elephants

House Mazars and Deutsche Bank subpoena cases will be heard together with arguments in March. Not ideal for getting an impeachment case to the Senate, but absolutely horrific for Trump’s re-election chances. Looks like he will avoid impeachment on Ukraine, though.
Still waiting to hear on Manhattan DA Deutsche Bank case.

aloyisious

The USSC has agreed to hold a hearing on Don's tax return papers and their handover [per federal court order] to the investigating NYC DA and Don's supposed presidential immunity from letting the people see what's in them. The beauty of this move is, in it being a gamble, that should the USSC rule against him, the appeal case he lodged with the NY appeals court also to overturn the federal court ruling will be voided. On the face of it, he's taking an all or nothing risk with his "presidential immunity" claim on the returns, unless he's presenting different appeal claims to both courts.

26000 Elephants

Some people seem to be missing an important point in these appeals, and suggest that there is some 'fundamental constitutional' issue to be decided here: THERE IS NOT!

So far 11 justices have unequivocally found that the records must be turned over. The only reason it is being heard by the SC is because TRUMP has referred it there if there was a fundamental issue in question, it would have been referred by a court. Anyone pushing the 'fundamental' wheeze is just parrotting a Trump talking point.

If this was so important, why isnt it being heard immediately? As with Bush v. Gore? What is so urgent before the SC that they have to wait until March to hear argument and June before they make a decision?

The answer is simple - this is nothing more than politics. The US system of separation of powers has already failed. While I still believe they will find against Trump, the damage has already been done.

TomOnBoard

After the last week or so, I am sick of it all... The Republican members of Congress (both Houses) are now so far down the road of cultish devotion to Trump that there is no saving them. And Barr's swipe-back at the IG is disgusting and a disgrace. The whole lot of them are simply a den of thieves and charlatans and are demonstrating absolutely no redeeming features. The US Constitutional Republic is failing abysmally and it's 3 principal pillars are broken and will remain so for a generation.

Sadly, it's cancerous effect is also spreading to other places, with populist, Orwellian propagandist 'leaders' lying straight to voters' faces and guffawing like frat house idiots while they do so.

stefanovich

everlast75 wrote: »

Why would he have a problem with people listening to his perfect calls?

National security. Personal privacy.

stefanovich

Democrats are completely aware that this will fail. Pure pantomime leading up to the election with the hope it will damage Trump. They should really focus on fielding an candidate that could actually win. Trump 2020.

aloyisious

I'm looking for a link to USSC cases it has decided on since Oct 6th, 2018 AND a link on which the names of those USSC Justices who heard and voted on the cases are listed since Oct 6th 2018.

I see that it takes 4 USSC Justices to issue a writ of certiorari to let an appeal be heard before the USSC so I presume at least 4 members decided to let Don's appeal proceed to March 2020. Is there a link naming those USSC Justices who agreed to the writ?

Leroy42

stefanovich wrote: »

Democrats are completely aware that this will fail. Pure pantomime leading up to the election with the hope it will damage Trump. They should really focus on fielding an candidate that could actually win. Trump 2020.

So they should simply accept it and move on? Congress and the Senate, being one of the 3 pillars, have a duty to act to balance the other arms of the state.

What you seem to be suggesting is that anything is allowed as all that matters is who wins next time.

I do wonder, will the likes of Trumpers and GOP be so accepting when (and it is when not if) a DNC president of Senate happens. Will the likes of Fox News be so accepting of a Senate majority SNC leader claiming that the DNC President can do whatever they like and they will protect them.

duploelabs

stefanovich wrote: »

National security. Personal privacy.

He's a public servant, everything he does has to be recorded. That Ukraine call was one of many that had no security concerns but were moved to a codeword secure server for some unknown reason

PropJoe10

stefanovich wrote: »

Democrats are completely aware that this will fail. Pure pantomime leading up to the election with the hope it will damage Trump. They should really focus on fielding an candidate that could actually win. Trump 2020.

By not acting, they'd be giving license to all future presidents - Republican and Democrat - to act like a King and do whatever they want. Trump deserves impeachment in the House, regardless of whether the Senate removes him or not.

stefanovich

stefanovich wrote: »

National security. Personal privacy.

He refused to use a secured phone when he started as president, preferring to use his personal unsecured phone. I'm not sure if this is still the case though. Trump does not give two sh!ts about national security or anything else.

moon2

stefanovich wrote: »

Democrats are completely aware that this will fail. Pure pantomime leading up to the election with the hope it will damage Trump..

unfortunately you're probably right. Whether or not Trump can, or did, break the law or commit impeachable offenses is a partisan issue.

The fact so many people are comfortable calling the result in favour of Trump despite the evidence, and his continuing actions, really speaks volumes.

Leroy42

McConnell has already come out and said that he will be working with the WH to ensure that they are working together. This is effectively the senior judge in the impeachment trial openly saying that he is working to make sure the charged will get off!

Given that the DNC can only really bring the case and let the GOP do whatever they choose.

Igotadose

Leroy42 wrote: »

McConnell has already come out and said that he will be working with the WH to ensure that they are working together. This is effectively the senior judge in the impeachment trial openly saying that he is working to make sure the charged will get off!

Given that the DNC can only really bring the case and let the GOP do whatever they choose.

Nit: the DNC aren't bringing any case here. It's the House of Representatives

Yer Trump fans would probably disagree.

Not exactly sure what McConnell's role will be during the trial - not good, I'm sure. Chief Justice Roberts of the SCOTUS presides as the only judge.

Dohnjoe

stefanovich wrote: »

Personal privacy.

The US president is a public servant. Conducting completely private calls with foreign leaders would lack any accountability whatsoever and serve only the private interests of the president. Everything has to be recorded, in this case by teams of note-takers.

pixelburp

Plus, every document and communication that passes the President's desk (so to speak) HAS to be recorded and filed. It's simply the nature of the job and "personal privacy" doesn't exist for the US President, just ain't an option. None of this is negotiable, or at least it wasn't until the current president pushed the boundaries by saying "no" to having his phone vetted (and, in one of my favourite stories from this term, had to be asked repeatedly not to tear up documents after reading; aides having to rummage through the bin to sellotape docs back for the aforementioned recording).

aloyisious

Igotadose wrote: »

Not exactly sure what McConnell's role will be during the trial - not good, I'm sure. Chief Justice Roberts of the SCOTUS presides as the only judge.

Shepherd for the GOP flock to stop any going astray.

TomOnBoard

aloyisious wrote: »

Shepherd for the GOP flock to stop any going astray.

As I see it, Chief Justice Roberts will be the Judge... Moscow Mitch was supposed to be the 'independent and non-partisan" Foreman of the Jury. ..


The problem for me is that the Foreman of the Jury is in daily contact, on a secretive basis, with the defendant, his lawyers, and a tax-payer funded national bureaucracy and the totality of that involvement has given rise to a total rejection by that jury of the case against Trump, before a single word of evidence has been presented to them...

Water John

What ever way the Senate votes, Trump will have been only the third POTUS to be impeached. Impeachment is decided by the House of Reps.

eire4

PropJoe10 wrote: »

By not acting, they'd be giving license to all future presidents - Republican and Democrat - to act like a King and do whatever they want. Trump deserves impeachment in the House, regardless of whether the Senate removes him or not.

Your absolutely right and what is happening now has been set up in a way with precedent. Ford pardoned Nixon after he resigned instead of Nixon being charged and put on trial. That clearly sets the precedent.

aloyisious

Telling it like it is: Senator Lindsay Graham says he wont pretend to be an honest juror at Don Trump's trial before the senate and listen to any evidence given, its partisan. Congressman Jeff Van Drew [D] New Jersey is mentioned in The Guardian as meeting with Don Trump on Friday and talked about switching parties. The NJ seat is apparently in a Pro-Don area and Jeff might lose the seat in next Novembers elections. He's argued in the past that it was better to let the public decide on Dons fate at the next election instead of making it a partisan impeachment issue in the congress and senate.

StringerBell

Leroy42 wrote: »

McConnell has already come out and said that he will be working with the WH to ensure that they are working together. This is effectively the senior judge in the impeachment trial openly saying that he is working to make sure the charged will get off!

Given that the DNC can only really bring the case and let the GOP do whatever they choose.

Its actually even worse than that, McConnell has already come out and said Trump will not be removed under any circumstances. This should actually lead to his own impeachment for breaching his oath but obviously won't.