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America kills its 1,500th citizen

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    #32
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    After executing 1500 murderers, is there any evidence to suggest murder rates have fallen? I think not. Lock them up and throw away the key. Much better punishment


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    #33
    farmchoice
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭farmchoice


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    do you know why courts did not do it? Because they were already dead. It is very hard to appeal from the afterlife.


    i know and as others have said the American court system appears to be a bit of a disgrace.
    i was only answering the question ''how many executed people were later found innocent. i answered none.

    as others have pointed out many are suspected to be innocent.
    there have been numerous attempts to get someone legally declared innocent but without success.
    now not to be seen to defend the American court system but there does appear to be a lengthy appeal process up to and including the supreme court.


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    #34
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,180 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    farmchoice wrote: »
    i know and as others have said the American court system appears to be a bit of a disgrace.
    i was only answering the question ''how many executed people were later found innocent. i answered none.

    as others have pointed out many are suspected to be innocent.
    there have been numerous attempts to get someone legally declared innocent but without success.
    now not to be seen to defend the American court system but there does appear to be a lengthy appeal process up to and including the supreme court.

    which is not much good if evidence that shows you to be innocent does not appear until after you are executed.


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    #35
    farmchoice
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭farmchoice


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    which is not much good if evidence that shows you to be innocent does not appear until after you are executed.


    agreed and that is one of the many reasons why the death penalty is such a terrible thing.


    mind you the average length of time between sentencing and execution in the USA is 15 years.


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    #36
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    Yurt! wrote: »
    Murders are committed daily in death penalty states.

    How many sociopaths do you think have been dissuaded from murder because they stopped and thought 'god, on the one hand I'd love to brutally murder this person, but on the other hand, there is the death penalty.' ?

    In reality, the death penalty is there as a legacy of retributive pre-modern impulses.

    You are answering a question I did not ask. OP made a claim and I queried it.


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    #37
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    seamus wrote: »
    It seems to be the exact opposite IMHO.

    Those with a strong faith in a supreme being seem to be the most comfortable with death as a punishment for serious crimes.

    Not many atheists out blowing up places of worship or flying planes into buildings.

    Disgusting post.


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    #38
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Don't have a problem with people being executed.

    However I wouldn't be confident that the innocent would not get the rope or that people wouldn't be stitched up to ensure they got the rope.


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    #39
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,180 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Sonny noggs wrote: »
    Disgusting post.

    all that matters is is it true. and it is.


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    #40
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    I can’t condone taking a human life.

    I’m not religious at all so it’s not a god thing.

    There’s just no part of my brain that can make sense of why it’s ok to kill someone because they killed.

    It just seems archaic, barbaric and wrong to me.


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    #41
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    shamrock55 wrote: »
    We have 2 young felles here if they want 2 more

    Very funny.

    Google "George Stinney" and you will see that they have indeed put people as young as A and B to death. Although the perfunctory nature of Stinney's trial led to the verdict being overturned decades later. Bit too late for him, unfortunately.

    The relatives of the two girls for whose murder Stinney was convicted and killed were aghast at the reversal. "But he might have done it!" they cried. Well, he might. But isn't justice supposed to prove "beyond reasonable doubt"? Especially for capital offences?

    At least A and B had due process served: a trial lasting seven weeks and a jury deliberating for three days. And however low opinion we may have of them, and it's pretty damn low I can assure you, many of us wouldn't want to see them hung for it. We all had the opportunity to vote on capital punishment in 2001, and we voted overwhelmingly in favour of making it unconstitutional. 62 - 38%.

    Besides, the American state doing in 1500 of its citizens in 40-odd years is chickenfeed. Their police shoot dead 985 people on average every year, or at least that's the figure for the years 2015-2018 inclusive, according to the Washington Post police shootings database. At the time of writing, 425 people have been shot dead by US law enforcement already this year and we're not yet halfway through.

    The shootings database only records gunshot killings by police. Add in the odd over-enthusiastic choke hold, Rodney King style battering that does NOT go viral after being filmed and the old reliable "suspect fell down the stairs of the police station" and the number of fatalities at the hands of police is even higher.

    Good job they're so dismissive of "Big Government" in the USA, eh?


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    #42
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Sonny noggs wrote: »
    Disgusting post.

    I wonder is it too early to ponder the Pro-life movements feelings on the death penalty.
    Hmmmmmmmmmmmm


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    #43
    Elemonator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭Elemonator


    Peatys wrote: »
    We're better off without them.
    Wonder would Peter Casey run on a capital punishment ticket?

    Fair few could do with the rope

    Banned if you want membership of the European Union.


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    #44
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    I agree with capital punishment in certain scenarios. But I don't agree with spending decades in prison first.

    If convicted and not executed within 5 years it should become a life sentence.


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    #45
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    I wonder is it too early to ponder the Pro-life movements feelings on the death penalty.
    Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

    Yeah, killing unborn babies (or clumps of cells if that is your preferred terminology) is comparable to executing convicted criminals.


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    #46
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Sonny noggs wrote: »
    Yeah, killing unborn babies (or clumps of cells if that is your preferred terminology) is comparable to executing convicted criminals.

    Convicted indeed, but not all of them guilty.

    I would have thought if potential life is sacred, then a living persons life is sacred too. Surely your not suggesting us mere humans are qualified to make that judgement on whether or not a life should exist?


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    #47
    TeaBagMania
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭TeaBagMania


    1500? should be a hell of a lot more

    Not only should the death penalty be expanded to include other serious crimes it should be executed more swiftly (no pun intended) none of this BS of sitting on death row for 30 years while we feed and house your their sorry ass.

    If you're going to be a POS scumbag member of society we don't need you on this planet


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    #48
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    TeaBagMania wrote: »
    1500? should be a hell of a lot more

    Not only should the death penalty be expanded to include other serious crimes it should be executed more swiftly (no pun intended) none of this BS of sitting on death row for 30 years while we feed and house your their sorry ass.

    If you're going to be a POS scumbag member of society we don't need you on this planet
    We should make it so that if someone is found to be innocent after they're executed, then all members of the jury, and the judge who sentenced them, be put to death too.

    Seems fair, right? Life for a life.


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    #49
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Yurt! wrote: »
    In reality, the death penalty is there as a legacy of retributive pre-modern impulses.

    Think they call it old testament justice in the southern states. The good book states that it's a suitable punishment. I'd have it in Ireland for certain cases. Twas abolished in the 1960s, I see.
    seamus wrote: »
    We should make it so that if someone is found to be innocent after they're executed, then all members of the jury, and the judge who sentenced them, be put to death too.

    Say what?


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    #50
    TeaBagMania
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭TeaBagMania


    seamus wrote: »
    We should make it so that if someone is found to be innocent after they're executed, then all members of the jury, and the judge who sentenced them, be put to death too.

    Seems fair, right? Life for a life.

    You have one year to appeal and if no new evidence is found to exonerate its back to the gas chamber


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    #51
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    America tested nuclear weapons on its own land for decades. Probably far more than 1,500 people died due to radiation poisoning in Nevada, California, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Arizona downwind from those explosions


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    #52
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    America tested nuclear weapons on its own land for decades. Probably far more than 1,500 people died due to radiation poisoning in Nevada, California, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Arizona downwind from those explosions

    I never knew that. Christ, that's a daft thing to do.


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    #53
    The Rapture
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16 ✭The Rapture


    I laugh at how much we focus on the US when it comes to the death penalty.
    Meanwhile China execute multiples of the US all time amount in a single year & harvest those sweet sweet organs upon doing so.
    Maybe because it's all the way over there & they speak funny that we don't feel as engaged to protest.

    Anyway, I'm all for it, hang em high I say.


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    #54
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Late last night the United States ended the life of its 1500th citizen since the reinstatement of capital punishment in 1976. No sign of the intentional killing stopping

    And that's only its own citizens.


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    #55
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    TeaBagMania wrote: »
    You have one year to appeal and if no new evidence is found to exonerate its back to the gas chamber
    The average time in the US from conviction to exoneration for life sentences or death penalties, is 14 years.

    If you're comfortable putting innocent people to death, then the least you should have is the balls to put your own head on the chopping block when you make the mistake.

    If you send an innocent man to his death, you should be put to death. It's only fair.


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    #56
    The Rapture
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16 ✭The Rapture


    seamus wrote: »
    The average time in the US from conviction to exoneration for life sentences or death penalties, is 14 years.

    If you're comfortable putting innocent people to death, then the least you should have is the balls to put your own head on the chopping block when you make the mistake.

    If you send an innocent man to his death, you should be put to death. It's only fair.

    How would you feel about the Death Penalty to open & shut cases only ?
    Where we can be 100% sure of the guilty party.


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    #57
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    The Rapture wrote: »
    How would you feel about the Death Penalty to open & shut cases only ?
    Where we can be 100% sure of the guilty party.
    Tell us exactly under what circumstances you would be willing to bet your life on someone else's guilt. Don't give me examples of previous cases where you're sure, give me a way in which we can know for definite that someone on trial tomorrow is guilty.

    There is no magic formula where 100% guilt can be determined. This is why it's beyond a reasonable doubt rather than beyond all doubt.


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    #58
    The Rapture
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16 ✭The Rapture


    seamus wrote: »
    Tell us exactly under what circumstances you would be willing to bet your life on someone else's guilt. Don't give me examples of previous cases where you're sure, give me a way in which we can know for definite that someone is guilty.

    There is no magic formula where 100% guilt can be determined. This is why it's beyond a reasonable doubt rather than beyond all doubt.

    You go first


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    #59
    TeaBagMania
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭TeaBagMania


    seamus wrote: »
    There is no magic formula where 100% guilt can be determined.

    Wait, what?

    so if someone kills another in the presence of 10 eye witnesses its not 100% guilt?


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    #60
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,133 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    Wonder how many it is outside the country.

    1600 civilians in Raqqa alone
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48044115


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    #61
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,542 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    Gael23 wrote: »
    He planned a killing but he didn’t actually pull the trigger. Anyway clearly after killing 1500 people, execution isn’t a deterrent clearly
    Yurt! wrote: »
    Murders are committed daily in death penalty states.

    How many sociopaths do you think have been dissuaded from murder because they stopped and thought 'god, on the one hand I'd love to brutally murder this person, but on the other hand, there is the death penalty.' ?

    In reality, the death penalty is there as a legacy of retributive pre-modern impulses.

    I think it's more of a cost saving measure.
    In America Life is Life. You die in prison.

    In Ireland it costs around €60k per year to keep a person locked up.
    In America it's a €31k per year (Automation, Modernisation and Private Prisons cutting costs)

    You lock someone up for murder when they are 20 and they live til the are 78 which is the life expectancy in America.
    That works out nearly $1.8 Million to keep a person locked up for life.

    Bullet, Drugs, Electricity, Noose or whatever is far cheaper, and hence less of a burden on the Taxpayer.


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