America kills its 1,500th citizen

Gael23

Late last night the United States ended the life of its 1500th citizen since the reinstatement of capital punishment in 1976. No sign of the intentional killing stopping
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/20/18692915/marion-wilson-death-penalty-georgia-1500-execution-us-1976

GreeBo

In fairness that guy must have been ancient if he was the 1,500th citizen.

Sonny noggs

What crimes did the person commit, OP? Or is that not relevant?

Kivaro

Welcome to the Current Affairs forum.

Gael23

Sonny noggs wrote: »

What crimes did the person commit, OP? Or is that not relevant?

He planned a killing but he didn’t actually pull the trigger. Anyway clearly after killing 1500 people, execution isn’t a deterrent clearly

FunLover18

Sonny noggs wrote: »

What crimes did the person commit, OP? Or is that not relevant?

It's not relevant, the death penalty is abhorrent.

Peatys

We're better off without them.
Wonder would Peter Casey run on a capital punishment ticket?

Fair few could do with the rope

facehugger99

I'm surprised it's so few TBH given they've over 2 million people incarcerated.

Works out around 35 people a year, or 0.0015% of the prison population.

I don't agree with Capital punishment though.

weldoninhio

Gael23 wrote: »

He planned a killing but he didn’t actually pull the trigger. Anyway clearly after killing 1500 people, execution isn’t a deterrent clearly

Wilson was indicted for multiple counts — malice murder, felony murder, armed robbery, hijacking a motor vehicle, possession of a firearm during the commission of a crime and possession of a sawed-off shotgun — and was sentenced to death on November 7, 1997. (Butts, who was also convicted of murder, was executed last year.) Him and his buddy murdered a prison officer.

shamrock55

We have 2 young felles here if they want 2 more

gibgodsman

Boy A could do with it

Sonny noggs

Gael23 wrote: »

He planned a killing but he didn’t actually pull the trigger. Anyway clearly after killing 1500 people, execution isn’t a deterrent clearly

He has been locked up for decades. He committed his crime before most of the 1500 were executed. So I'm not sure how you can say ‘isn’t a deterrent clearly’ based on this one case?

Yurt2

Sonny noggs wrote: »

He has been locked up for decades. He committed his crime before most of the 1500 were executed. So I'm not sure how you can say ‘isn’t a deterrent clearly’ based on this one case?

Murders are committed daily in death penalty states.

How many sociopaths do you think have been dissuaded from murder because they stopped and thought 'god, on the one hand I'd love to brutally murder this person, but on the other hand, there is the death penalty.' ?

In reality, the death penalty is there as a legacy of retributive pre-modern impulses.

topper75

^^^^^^
Following this logic, they shouldn't be locked up in prison either :-)

Hector Savage

Gael23 wrote: »

Late last night the United States ended the life of its 1500th citizen since the reinstatement of capital punishment in 1976. No sign of the intentional killing stopping
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/20/18692915/marion-wilson-death-penalty-georgia-1500-execution-us-1976

approached Donovan Corey Parks, an off-duty corrections officer, in a Walmart store. They asked Parks for a ride, and witnesses saw the three men get in Parks’s car together. Shortly after, Parks was found face-down, dead on a residential street.

so they executed a murderer, boo f*cking hoo!

Yurt2

topper75 wrote: »

^^^^^^
Following this logic, they shouldn't be locked up in prison either :-)

Modern prison systems, as you know, trend towards rehabilitation rather than being punitive (although that is still an element of every prison system ever, and will remain so).

There is quite a moral, ethical and philosophical leap from denying an individual's liberty for transgressing society's rules (something almost everybody agrees with), to taking their life (something a minority in this country would probably agree with). So no, following my logic, no, I'm not opposed to prison.

Time

Gael23 wrote: »

He planned a killing but he didn’t actually pull the trigger. Anyway clearly after killing 1500 people, execution isn’t a deterrent clearly

It’s not supposed to be a deterrent, capital punishment is recognition that some crimes are so serious that people deserve to die for them

reg114

I would have no problem if they brought back capital punishment here but the Irish judiciary are a joke as it is. The crazy part is the length of time people are on death row, the justice should be swifter , indeed cases where capital punishment is the sentence should be fast tracked. At the moment you just have lawyers appealing over and over drawing out the entire process for years making the situation worse for the families of the victims and costing the tax payer millions of dollars. Yes there will be miscarriages of justice but that has always been and will always be the case and is no justification for not having the death penalty. Is the death penalty a deterrent ? Those 1500 criminals executed could have killed many people who are alive today.

I find the argument on whether to have the death penalty or not depends on your stance on the existence of a higher power or not. It seems generally (but not all cases) that those who believe in a god find the notion of the death penalty repugnant. Personally if the crime is of a hideous nature that it denudes the victim of their humanity such as rape or murder then I have zero problem with that individual being removed from the face of the planet.

Theboinkmaster

Gael23 wrote: »

Late last night the United States ended the life of its 1500th citizen since the reinstatement of capital punishment in 1976. No sign of the intentional killing stopping
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/20/18692915/marion-wilson-death-penalty-georgia-1500-execution-us-1976

How many of those 1,500 were found to be non-guilty after they were killed?

Boxing.Fan

Some people deserve to die for their crimes.

Guy:Incognito

Gael23 wrote: »

He planned a killing but he didn’t actually pull the trigger. Anyway clearly after killing 1500 people, execution isn’t a deterrent clearly

It might not be a deterrent but it damn sure sorts out the chances of reoffending.

How many serious criminals here have gone on to rape or murder after release?
It's all well and good till you're the victim of someone that shouldnt be outside a prison or alive at all.

Guy:Incognito

reg114 wrote: »

It seems generally (but not all cases) that those who believe in a god find the notion of the death penalty repugnant.

Which is funny given how much death and destruction would that cvnt would have on his conscience if he existed.

Day Lewin

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It might not be a deterrent but it damn sure sorts out the chances of reoffending.

How many serious criminals here have gone on to rape or murder after release?
It's all well and good till you're the victim of someone that shouldnt be outside a prison or alive at all.

It's the one way to guarantee that a proven very dangerous person will not re-offend.

Its tragic in a way, a human life lost: but after a criminal killing, a judicial process, appeals etc. exhausted: and with the intention to keep the rest of population safe. Arguably can be deserved.

farmchoice

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

How many of those 1,500 were found to be non-guilty after they were killed?

firstly let state i'm totally against the death penalty.
to answer your question as far as i know, none. now many have been declared innocent whilst on death row and there are cases where the evidence suggests those executed may well have been innocent, but i suppose this is just an opinion, but there have been no cases of someone being exonerated by a court after an execution. I'm talking post 1976 here.



this is from memory so I'm open to correction.

seamus

reg114 wrote: »

It seems generally (but not all cases) that those who believe in a god find the notion of the death penalty repugnant.

It seems to be the exact opposite IMHO.

Those with a strong faith in a supreme being seem to be the most comfortable with death as a punishment for serious crimes.

Not many atheists out blowing up places of worship or flying planes into buildings.

Turtyturd

Wonder how many it is outside the country.

RobbieTheRobber

farmchoice wrote: »

firstly let state i'm totally against the death penalty.
to answer your question as far as i know, none. now many have been declared innocent whilst on death row and there are cases where the evidence suggests those executed may well have been innocent, but i suppose this is just an opinion, but there have been no cases of someone being exonerated by a court after an execution. I'm talking post 1976 here.



this is from memory so I'm open to correction.

Wikipedia says the following have been executed since 1976 and later found innocent

Carlos DeLuna was executed in Texas in December 1989 for stabbing a gas station clerk to death. Subsequent investigations cast strong doubt upon DeLuna's guilt for the murder of which he had been convicted.[24][25] His execution came about six years after the crime was committed. The trial ended up attracting local attention, but it was never suggested that an innocent man was about to be punished while the actual killer went free. DeLuna was found blocks away from the crime scene with $149 in his pocket. From that point on, it went downhill for the young Carlos DeLuna. A wrongful eyewitness testimony is what formed the case against him. Unfortunately, DeLuna’s previous criminal record was very much used against him.[26] The real killer, Carlos Hernandez, was a repeat violent offender who actually had a history of slashing women with his unique buck knife, not to mention he looked very similar to Carlos DeLuna. Hernandez did not keep quiet about his murder; apparently he went around bragging about the killing of Lopez. In 1999, Hernandez was imprisoned for attacking his neighbor with a knife.[27]

Jesse Tafero was convicted of murder and executed via electric chair in May 1990 in the state of Florida for the murders of two Florida Highway Patrol officers. The conviction of a co-defendant was overturned in 1992 after a recreation of the crime scene indicated a third person had committed the murders.[28] Not only was Tafero wrongly accused, his electric chair malfunctioned as well – three times. As a result, Tafero’s head caught on fire. After this encounter, a debate was focused around humane methods of execution. Lethal injections became more common in the states rather than the electric chair.[29]

Johnny Garrett of Texas was executed in February 1992 for allegedly raping and murdering a nun. In March 2004 cold-case DNA testing identified Leoncio Rueda as the rapist and murderer of another elderly victim killed four months earlier.[30] Immediately following the nun's murder, prosecutors and police were certain the two cases were committed by the same assailant.[31] The flawed case is explored in a 2008 documentary entitled The Last Word.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution#United_States

Jesse Tafero *****ng hell innocent and they botched the execution of him three times. I feel like crying for the man!

Theboinkmaster

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Wikipedia says the following have been executed since 1976 and later found innocent



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution#United_States

Jesse Tafero *****ng hell innocent and they botched the execution of him three times. I feel like crying for the man!

Thanks - that's 3 too many and shows why death penalty is ridiculous.

farmchoice

none of those people were posthumously found Innocent but it looks like they may well have been.
it is suspected they may have been innocent on review of the evidence or after someone uncover new evidence. but it was not courts doing this.

ohnonotgmail

farmchoice wrote: »

none of those people were posthumously found Innocent but it looks like they may well have been.
it is suspected they may have been innocent on review of the evidence or after someone uncover new evidence. but it was not courts doing this.

do you know why courts did not do it? Because they were already dead. It is very hard to appeal from the afterlife.

RobbieTheRobber

farmchoice wrote: »

none of those people were posthumously found Innocent but it looks like they may well have been.
it is suspected they may have been innocent on review of the evidence or after someone uncover new evidence. but it was not courts doing this.

American courts are a disgrace though. You can't just overturn a conviction by proving innocence.

Herrera v. Collins, 506 U.S. 390 (1993), was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States ruled by 6 votes to 3 that a claim of actual innocence does not entitle a petitioner to federal habeas corpus relief by way of the Eighth Amendment's ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrera_v._Collins

Gael23

After executing 1500 murderers, is there any evidence to suggest murder rates have fallen? I think not. Lock them up and throw away the key. Much better punishment

farmchoice

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

do you know why courts did not do it? Because they were already dead. It is very hard to appeal from the afterlife.

i know and as others have said the American court system appears to be a bit of a disgrace.
i was only answering the question ''how many executed people were later found innocent. i answered none.

as others have pointed out many are suspected to be innocent.
there have been numerous attempts to get someone legally declared innocent but without success.
now not to be seen to defend the American court system but there does appear to be a lengthy appeal process up to and including the supreme court.

ohnonotgmail

farmchoice wrote: »

i know and as others have said the American court system appears to be a bit of a disgrace.
i was only answering the question ''how many executed people were later found innocent. i answered none.

as others have pointed out many are suspected to be innocent.
there have been numerous attempts to get someone legally declared innocent but without success.
now not to be seen to defend the American court system but there does appear to be a lengthy appeal process up to and including the supreme court.

which is not much good if evidence that shows you to be innocent does not appear until after you are executed.

farmchoice

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

which is not much good if evidence that shows you to be innocent does not appear until after you are executed.

agreed and that is one of the many reasons why the death penalty is such a terrible thing.


mind you the average length of time between sentencing and execution in the USA is 15 years.

Sonny noggs

Yurt! wrote: »

Murders are committed daily in death penalty states.

How many sociopaths do you think have been dissuaded from murder because they stopped and thought 'god, on the one hand I'd love to brutally murder this person, but on the other hand, there is the death penalty.' ?

In reality, the death penalty is there as a legacy of retributive pre-modern impulses.

You are answering a question I did not ask. OP made a claim and I queried it.

Sonny noggs

seamus wrote: »

It seems to be the exact opposite IMHO.

Those with a strong faith in a supreme being seem to be the most comfortable with death as a punishment for serious crimes.

Not many atheists out blowing up places of worship or flying planes into buildings.

Disgusting post.

Danzy

Don't have a problem with people being executed.

However I wouldn't be confident that the innocent would not get the rope or that people wouldn't be stitched up to ensure they got the rope.

ohnonotgmail

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Disgusting post.

all that matters is is it true. and it is.

The Bishop Basher

I can’t condone taking a human life.

I’m not religious at all so it’s not a god thing.

There’s just no part of my brain that can make sense of why it’s ok to kill someone because they killed.

It just seems archaic, barbaric and wrong to me.

Snickers Man

shamrock55 wrote: »

We have 2 young felles here if they want 2 more

Very funny.

Google "George Stinney" and you will see that they have indeed put people as young as A and B to death. Although the perfunctory nature of Stinney's trial led to the verdict being overturned decades later. Bit too late for him, unfortunately.

The relatives of the two girls for whose murder Stinney was convicted and killed were aghast at the reversal. "But he might have done it!" they cried. Well, he might. But isn't justice supposed to prove "beyond reasonable doubt"? Especially for capital offences?

At least A and B had due process served: a trial lasting seven weeks and a jury deliberating for three days. And however low opinion we may have of them, and it's pretty damn low I can assure you, many of us wouldn't want to see them hung for it. We all had the opportunity to vote on capital punishment in 2001, and we voted overwhelmingly in favour of making it unconstitutional. 62 - 38%.

Besides, the American state doing in 1500 of its citizens in 40-odd years is chickenfeed. Their police shoot dead 985 people on average every year, or at least that's the figure for the years 2015-2018 inclusive, according to the Washington Post police shootings database. At the time of writing, 425 people have been shot dead by US law enforcement already this year and we're not yet halfway through.

The shootings database only records gunshot killings by police. Add in the odd over-enthusiastic choke hold, Rodney King style battering that does NOT go viral after being filmed and the old reliable "suspect fell down the stairs of the police station" and the number of fatalities at the hands of police is even higher.

Good job they're so dismissive of "Big Government" in the USA, eh?

RobbieTheRobber

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Disgusting post.

I wonder is it too early to ponder the Pro-life movements feelings on the death penalty.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Elemonator

Peatys wrote: »

We're better off without them.
Wonder would Peter Casey run on a capital punishment ticket?

Fair few could do with the rope

Banned if you want membership of the European Union.

BrokenArrows

I agree with capital punishment in certain scenarios. But I don't agree with spending decades in prison first.

If convicted and not executed within 5 years it should become a life sentence.

Sonny noggs

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I wonder is it too early to ponder the Pro-life movements feelings on the death penalty.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Yeah, killing unborn babies (or clumps of cells if that is your preferred terminology) is comparable to executing convicted criminals.

RobbieTheRobber

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Yeah, killing unborn babies (or clumps of cells if that is your preferred terminology) is comparable to executing convicted criminals.

Convicted indeed, but not all of them guilty.

I would have thought if potential life is sacred, then a living persons life is sacred too. Surely your not suggesting us mere humans are qualified to make that judgement on whether or not a life should exist?

TeaBagMania

1500? should be a hell of a lot more

Not only should the death penalty be expanded to include other serious crimes it should be executed more swiftly (no pun intended) none of this BS of sitting on death row for 30 years while we feed and house your their sorry ass.

If you're going to be a POS scumbag member of society we don't need you on this planet

seamus

TeaBagMania wrote: »

1500? should be a hell of a lot more

Not only should the death penalty be expanded to include other serious crimes it should be executed more swiftly (no pun intended) none of this BS of sitting on death row for 30 years while we feed and house your their sorry ass.

If you're going to be a POS scumbag member of society we don't need you on this planet

We should make it so that if someone is found to be innocent after they're executed, then all members of the jury, and the judge who sentenced them, be put to death too.

Seems fair, right? Life for a life.

Berserker

Yurt! wrote: »

In reality, the death penalty is there as a legacy of retributive pre-modern impulses.

Think they call it old testament justice in the southern states. The good book states that it's a suitable punishment. I'd have it in Ireland for certain cases. Twas abolished in the 1960s, I see.

seamus wrote: »

We should make it so that if someone is found to be innocent after they're executed, then all members of the jury, and the judge who sentenced them, be put to death too.

Say what?

TeaBagMania

seamus wrote: »

We should make it so that if someone is found to be innocent after they're executed, then all members of the jury, and the judge who sentenced them, be put to death too.

Seems fair, right? Life for a life.

You have one year to appeal and if no new evidence is found to exonerate its back to the gas chamber

rossie1977

America tested nuclear weapons on its own land for decades. Probably far more than 1,500 people died due to radiation poisoning in Nevada, California, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Arizona downwind from those explosions