Is this normal sibling stuff?

LolaJJ

I've got one sibling, an older sister.

Growing up she was wild, bullied me quite badly, especially about my weight, had the whole neighborhood join in, she got in to so much trouble generally my parents basically ignored me for 5 years. They absoutely did their best, but there was no roadmap and I was quiet and she kept them pretty busy with various expulsions and sexploits etc. All of this played out in my later teenage years with eating disorders etc... but thankfully around early-mid-twenties (I'm now in my thirties) we seemed to all clear the air, grow up and move on. I don't really have any lingering resentments. I don't agree with my sister on a lot of things but we're both old enough and wise enough to limit the exposure we have to each other, she also lives abroad now, which helps.

She got married a couple of years ago and her and her husband made the descison not to have children. Everyone, from the first day this was announced accepted it fully. No one has ever encouraged her to change her mind (In fact, I think the torture she put our parents through growing up even made them agree with her to a certain extent).

Nonetheless, she feels the need to actively speak at all given opportunities about how awful children are, how stupid the people are who have them, how the only people who have children are sheep, are ruining their lives, how mothers get depression, how it's effectively suicide etc. etc. I've always spoken up for people having personal choice and actually challenged her when her husbands sister had her first child and she refused to accompany him to go meet the baby (she's since fallen out with his sister who now has 3 children following the inconvenience of having children in her home when they went to visit her)

I was single for quite a few years with the exception of a few long-term on/off mistakes. I was never really in a position to be thinking about starting a familiy basically. So, I never gave it much thought. That all changed when I met my current partner a few years ago, and now this is something that's on the cards and something we are very excited about!!

She really likes my partner and always talks about how happy she is that I met him and I really think that's genuine.

My partner did really like her until we went for dinner with my long-term best mate who filled him in on how my sister was when we were kids and some of the things she said and did. He tries his best but finds it difficult to work through that. That said, she has no idea how he feels, he is always very polite to her.

I recently had an injury which involves a surgery in a few weeks... During a WhatsApp chat I asked "Did mum and dad tell you my news" to which she replied

"Please tell me you're not pregnant"

In that moment I felt incredble sadness and anger. Sad, because she is my only sibling and now she's said this, when we do (hopefully) eventually get pregnant there's going to be a good bit of negativity surrounding what should be a happy announcement.

Anger because I think she knows I want to have kids, so I feel some kind of malice was intended.

When I filled her in on the injury and operation.....her response was "Oh thank god, at least it can be fixed. I got such a fright thinking you might have womb-feces"

I just replied with a thumbs up, that was a few weeks ago and I haven't spoken to her since.

My mum said to just ignore it, don't poke the bear, you know what she is like etc.

My partner wasn't so kind in his words but really conveyed the same message.

My worry is that if this kind of attitude continues he won't be able to continue to be kind and nice to her and it will cause a massive family row. He has already said that if she ever says anything nasty to me or about us being pregnant in front of him he will not be able to hold back.

We're in our thirties, like, i can only imagine if we had something terrible like a miscarriage happen she would put her arm around me and tell me it was for the best. He would flip.

I don't mean to be worrying about all these uncertainties and maybe I should just ignore it and put it down to her being a bit of a cow at times but I also feel like I need to prepare myself for some kind of war. And I feel sad that my only sister won't be happy for me when we will be (hopefully) doing something that is perfectly normal and a happy time in most families.

Am I being silly getting caught up in this? Or is it justified to be upset? I guess when all of her remarks were directed generally towards the world it wasn't as hurtful, now they feel targetted and deliberately malicious

baby and crumble

I can very much understand where you're coming from and I would find it hard to keep listening to all that.

I know we can't speculate too much but honestly as i was reading the first thing that popped into my head was "She didn't choose not to have kids, she can't" because she seems to be protesting a bit too much, or something? I dunno, it's just a vibe I'm getting. If she's older than you and you're in your 30's then she probably got together with her man coming towards the end of the 'easier to get pregnant' years. So this whole thing could be some level of protection if that's the case.

You just never know, is what I'm trying to say. All you can do is your best to ignore it and don't let it sully your desire to have kids and be happy.

.......

Next time she says something like that via message just reply with "id rather you kept your offensive opinions to yourself, I really dont want to hear this kind of thing. Its childish and insensitive."

Oh and FWIW, I dont think referring to pregnancy as "womb feces" is normal or a sign of someone well adjusted.

antix80

Op. It's not normal sibling stuff.

At least, it's normal for siblings to be at each others throats when they're kids.

Well-balanced individuals should learn and grow. Others keep rehashing the same tensions and arguments from childhood.

Your sister is toxic. She's protesting too much, so maybe she secretly wants kids but is afraid to admit it and has herself backed into a corner so all she can do now is justify and defend her decision.

You worrying about miscarrying is a normal concern for a pregnant woman. But to invent a scenario where you're pregnant, miscarry, and your sister rubs it in... that can't be normal. Get some therapy to get over the issues you're experiencing and get on with your life. Learn to keep your sister at arm's length and don't worry about what she thinks.

ManOfMystery

"Womb feces" is an abominable comment to come out with.

I know a few people who don't have children - by choice - and aren't interested in children whatsoever. That doesn't mean they're vocal about it in the company of others; they keep their opinion to themselves because, one way or another, there's almost always going to be a family member somewhere who's pregnant or who already has kids. And they may have nieces and nephews and so on, and that's as much interaction as they want or desire with kids.

And as a father myself, yes it's hard work and yes it's challenging - but it's also one of the most natural and enjoyable things in the world. I mean, at the base level we are flesh and blood creatures and the need to procreate is genetically hardwired into most of us. So for someone to so vehemently and explicitly try and convince everyone that there's something fundamentally wrong in being a parent or wanting to be a parent - it's uncalled for, and also a bit strange. And I think she needs to be called out on that.

It's also entirely hypocritical. Your sister was a baby once; your mum and dad her parents. Does she wish they'd shared her beliefs? Does she wish she never existed?

Brego888

Personally id have it out with her about her comments now before you get pregnant.
You won't need to extra stress about how she will react or how your relationship will be once you actually are pregnant.

LolaJJ

baby and crumble wrote: »

I know we can't speculate too much but honestly as i was reading the first thing that popped into my head was "She didn't choose not to have kids, she can't" because she seems to be protesting a bit too much, or something? I dunno, it's just a vibe I'm getting.

I often think she protests to much but it's not an issue of can't. She went to have her tubes tied and was refused without her husbands permission, this was something we heard about for a long time, it is pretty archaic tbf. Anyway, he got a vesectomy.

antix80 wrote: »

Your sister is toxic. She's protesting too much, so maybe she secretly wants kids but is afraid to admit it and has herself backed into a corner so all she can do now is justify and defend her decision.

Yea, I suspect this at times...

antix80 wrote: »

You worrying about miscarrying is a normal concern for a pregnant woman. But to invent a scenario where you're pregnant, miscarry, and your sister rubs it in... that can't be normal. Get some therapy to get over the issues you're experiencing and get on with your life. Learn to keep your sister at arm's length and don't worry about what she thinks.

I wasn't inventing a scenario - I was more giving an example of the type of thing she would definitely do...like 100%

woodchuck

OP you really need to call her up on her comments then next time she says something negative about kids/pregnancy. Let her know that she's not going to have any/many friends left if she falls out with everyone who has kids! You can use her sister in law as an example. Let her know that she's headed in the same direction with you if she keeps it up. It's one thing having an opinion, it's another being openly judgemental of other peoples life choices.

antix80

LolaJJ wrote: »

I wasn't inventing a scenario - I was more giving an example of the type of thing she would definitely do...like 100%

I don't doubt it.. but it's still not healthy to think about it! It's not something you can prepare for. You just need to establish a healthier relationship with your sister. You can't change her but you can change how you interact with her.

Big Bag of Chips

I think in order to be controversial she "announced" that she didn't want children. She didn't get much of a backlash or reaction for her announcement so now has to go looking for a reaction in other ways.

She's your sibling, but that doesn't mean you have to be best buddies. If she wasn't your sister, would she be your friend? Would she be someone you'd have in your social circle and enjoy spending time with?

I have a friend who never wanted children. Never. Doesn't have them. But she doesn't go on about children like your sister does. Your sister seems obsessed. And I can only speculate that she is not fully comfortable with their decision but needs to continue being vocal about it to convince herself more than others. Because at the end of the day whether or not a couple want to have children is irrelevant to pretty much everyone else in their life.

I'd keep my distance from her. You don't have to be a part of her life. You don't have to listen to her bitching about others. You don't have to share news with her that you know she's going to scoff at.

She's your sister, but she seems like a fairly unpleasant person. Why put yourself in her path?

Edit : by the way, what's the problem with your bf potentially calling her out for being a nasty bitch? You're all afraid of 'poking the bear', you're afraid that he won't be able to continue to be kind? Why the fk should he continue to be kind to her when she is anything but. You and your parents might have come up with a way of dealing with her and that's fine if that's what you choose. But your bf is an adult, and more than entitled to stand up for himself and challenge someone who he feels is being nasty or rude towards him or people he cares about.

zoobizoo

ManOfMystery wrote: »

"Womb feces"

That is just wrong... whatever your take on kids.

You should have called her out on that because she will be offending people on an ongoing basis either those with kids, those who don't / can't have kids and want them / anyone who has miscarried (and it's a significant percentage) or just other decent human beings.


It's a terribly offensive immature attitude.

Another day

Has anyone ever told her how offensive she is? If not you need to. Her comments are disgusting and hurtful to some people. I would definitely tell her your plans to have children and that you do not welcome her comments. Better to do it now than when you do go ahead as that is the last thing you want to hear when all excited about impending arrival!

Alrigghtythen

You sister is not someone you should talk to about children. You can't control her reaction and should have no expections about how she would react to a miscarriage. Talk to her about other things. Talk to someone else about your pregnancy.

shesty

Offensive and immature (have sisters myself).Not normal behaviour.Sounds like someone who has just never matured really.Try not to discuss too much with her.And I am sorry but if or when you do have kids you may have to seriously restrict the interaction there because I would bet she will throw all of the toys out of her pram in order to redirect attention to herself and/or deal with her jealousy (sorry, that's what I see it as, in a warped way).She shouts so loudly about not wanting kids it suggests to me she is deeply insecure and quite possibly under it all maybe does want kids.

It's sad but I would step back.Don't poke the bear isn't necessarily something I would agree with, but I would think about taking the view that while standing up to someone like that is fine, they are clearly a lot of hassle and just wouldn't cop on ever...and therefore stress you do not need in your life.

rainbowtrout

ManOfMystery wrote: »

"Womb feces" is an abominable comment to come out with.

I know a few people who don't have children - by choice - and aren't interested in children whatsoever. That doesn't mean they're vocal about it in the company of others; they keep their opinion to themselves because, one way or another, there's almost always going to be a family member somewhere who's pregnant or who already has kids. And they may have nieces and nephews and so on, and that's as much interaction as they want or desire with kids.

I agree with all of this. And those that don't want to have children are usually happy for their friends and family that do want and go on to have children because they know it means a lot to them.

OP - your news, presumably, could have been about anything. A new job, an engagement, buying a house etc, yet your sister jumped to pregnancy straight away and made a nasty negative comment about it. If you were pregnant, she had her dig in before you even shared the news. Her behaviour is not normal. You do need to pull her up on her comments at the next opportunity. And if she continues, then limit your contact. You don't have to listen to that.

khaldrogo

Life is too fcuking short for this kind of Shiite........

When you get pregnant tell her the first word of negativity from her your hear will be the last you ever share.....and stick to it

ILoveYourVibes

Your sister just seems really unthinking and selfish and to be honest quite shallow.

I respect people's decision to not have children as being right for them. But to not comprehend the amount of joy a family brings and how it makes people grow and be less selfish etc is something else.

It tells me your sister isn't really that intelligent.


What a nasty thing to say.

But having said that. She is still your sister. And she will always be your sister. You have a buffer zone now with distance and perhaps that can mean you can actually be emotionally closer and last as a family with less exposure.

You are totally right to feel how you feel.

At the same time though. I have the feeling she isn't going to change as an adult. You could try letting her know how you feel but i have the feeling YOU HAVE tried this already. If you want to you can.

So my advise is ....just put up with her as best you can.

But that's just me. Siblings can be unbearable lumps sometimes.

Put off thinking about it for the time during your pregnancy anyway.

You don't have to tell her etc that you are pregnant. She will work it out.

Congratulations on your baby. I am so very happy for you. Don't let her spoil your joy.

LolaJJ

Thanks everyone, you've no idea how much I have gotten from all of your responses. I guess, my folks are in their 70's and there's only the two of us. As a family we have learned to tiptoe around her and not get drawn in to her weird way of thinking. Womb-Feces is the tip of the ice-berg. She has made several comments over the years about how IVF should be banned because it's people interfering with Natural Selection. She fell out with her long-term group of girl friends around the time of her wedding because they were sending too many photos of their babies in the group chat. As someone rightly noted, it's a total obsession with her.

We don't really ever challenge her, it just leads to a horrible row where we are exposed to all of her offensive and outraegous opinions and she will sotrm off/go quiet until one of us decides to offer an olive branch (she doesn't ever offer an olive branch). So we kind of go "well, it's personal choice isn't it" and change the record.

It took us a good 25+ years to learn to tolerate eachother and my parents get a lot of comfort from the fact that we get along now. From my side, If I am honest. I don't like her as a person at all.....the fact that my partner feels the way he does and is comfortable enough to speak about her the way he does with me only validates that for me.

He's got siblings and I am quite sad sometimes seeing how supportive they are of eachother, sad, that I don't have that. But if we are lucky enough to have a child it's a great blessing that they will have doting aunts and uncles on his side.

My instinct really is that when the time comes to make any announcements, I'm just not going to tell her or her husband (he just sits quietly and says nothing).

Thank you all for your opinions on this, my mum wants us all to get along and be happy, and like us all just wants an easy life so will always steer me away from getting upset. I think though, in the long-term this could blow up in to a big family arguement and I'm worried about upsetting my parents more than anything but the thoughts above (thank you) have really validated that any potential fall-out won't have been instigated on my side

Mollyb60

My husband and I also decided not to have kids and neither of us are the biggest fans of kids but I would NEVER call a baby "womb faeces". That is just a disgusting attitude to have and is clearly attention seeking behaviour from her. What a horrible person.

Unfortunately siblings don't always get on and if she causes you this much stress before you're pregnant it'll only increase when you do get pregnant. Especially if she continues with this horrible nasty behaviour. So I think what I'd do is just limit my contact with her. Pass yourself with her when at family things but don't seek out contact and make it clear to her that you won't tolerate her nastiness. Ignore her messages, don't answer calls or hang up if she starts in with the vitriol. I wouldn't even bother telling her if/when you do get pregnant. If she throws a strop about that then just say 'I'm well aware of your opinions about children so I didn't think you'd be interested in my news at all'. And leave it at that.

Pregnancy is supposed to be a happy exciting time. You deserve to enjoy it without her climbing on your back with her hatred. Best of luck.

Hannibal_Smith

Womb faeces is unbelievable! In the same way as people who want to have children need to accept that not everyone shares their view, she needs to accept that not everyone accepts her view. I know couples who decide not to have children, but I've never heard them talk like you're saying your sister does. And it does reek of over compensation.

She made a life choice that suited her and it doesn't or shouldn't have any impact on your life choices. I can understand your parents wanting to keep the piece, but she can not be allowed to continue to be so toxic.

I think it's really impressive that you've tried to do the best for your family by tolerating this. But your partner has a point in being angry. It's not normal behaviour from her at all. It's offensive and rude. Family dynamics differ in each family but don't feel you have to put up with nastiness to try and get it in your family.

Sometimes I think upset with family members comes from wanting them or the situation to change so that things can get better. But if those efforts are one-sided, sometimes I think you have to accept people are who they are and you have to manage your expectations relationship wise.

osarusan

Perhaps she thinks you share her position on people having kids. Next time it comes up make it clear that you actually don't feel the same as her, and that if and when you get pregnant you absolutely don't expect her to make similar comments.

And I wouldn't agree at all with the approach that you shouldn'e 'poke the bear', unless it makes the most sense for you, not her.

Ursus Horribilis

Be careful what you share with her. She is the sort of person you shouldn't confide in for anything personal.

zoobizoo

What I would also say is that it appears that if and when you get pregnant that it could be make or break for you and her....

Be prepared for her negativity but remember you don't have to justify your actions/decision.

If she doesn't respect that, you may have to cut ties - or she'll do it herself.




What does her husband think of her attitude & behaviour?

farmchoice

i'm sure others have pointed this out all ready but what she is doing is looking for attention.
this is what she has been doing all her life. simply ignore her comments and behavior no matter how much she provokes you, this will drive her mad of course, but if you give her the reaction she wants she will only push it even further.

valoren

I was angry at you while reading your post. Enabling such a twisted bitch as that with a thumbs up? For saying something so vile?

I would send her a message with the following foreshadowing any future pregnancy for you.

"Hey sis, I’ve been thinking about what you said a few weeks back. I know you thought I might have had 'womb feces' but seriously, a word of advice, while I'll let you off saying something so toxic, offensive and inappropriate to ME please don't go around telling other people who are pregnant that they have womb feces, FFS what the hell is wrong with you using language like that? Grow up. I wouldn't be surprised if they punched you in the face for saying such a cnutish thing to them. I know you hate kids and the thought of people having them grosses you out but cop the fcuk on with that sort of language and just mind your own business. Don't be a cnut (smiley face). It's for your own good".

If she get's uppity about it tell her to bluntly fcuk off. And when you do get pregnant and she inevitably does say something so insulting....well she can't say she wasn't warned. Personally speaking, if anyone referred to my unborn child as "womb feces" they wouldn't be saying it a second time especially if they got such a fair warming as the above.

the_pen_turner

the one thing to remember here is that everybody brings joy to your everyday life, some by entering and some by leaving.


she isnt bringing much joy to your life. kick her out of your life

SirChenjin

Believe me I understand why you don't rock the boat in relation to pretending that all is well for your parents sake.

But 'womb faeces'... That is so far beyond normal, I couldn't have responded with a thumbs up, I'm afraid.

Not sure I have a whole lot of advice but if you do have to reveal in the future that you are pregnant, you will need to tell her to get over her vile attitude, IMO.

Necro

LolaJJ wrote:

We don't really ever challenge her, it just leads to a horrible row where we are exposed to all of her offensive and outraegous opinions and she will sotrm off/go quiet until one of us decides to offer an olive branch (she doesn't ever offer an olive branch). So we kind of go "well, it's personal choice isn't it" and change the record.

Yeah, look OP I'll be blunt. This type of treatment is enabling your sister to do and say exactly what she wants with no repercussions at all.

Genuinely think about it, your opening post was all about her bullying you and your parents dancing to her tune for 5 or more years while she did whatever she liked basically.

It's not healthy for anyone, least of all yourself.

You shouldnt have to 'deal with' anyone, even family. There are lines and limits that people need to stay within for a reason.

She says things like 'womb faeces' because you guys won't give her the absolute Smackdown she has been asking for her entire adult life - and I'm not talking violence, just verbal.

So what if she goes silent and won't speak to any of you? At least you won't be subjected to her outrageous behaviour then. Let HER offer the olive branch when she steps out of line, not one of you just to keep the peace.

Life is far far too short to be dealing with someone like this, irregardless of blood or not.

From everything you've said and based off her behaviour you honestly might be better off just cutting ties completely with her tbh. She clearly doesn't care about you or your own feelings now (or in the past). Why should you worry about hers?

Another day

Your mum thinks you all should get along and leave her be. What happens when you do get pregnant? When your sister vents her spleen at you, degrades you? Your mother is so wrong and I feel that in time you are really going to suffer as a result. Which is why I think you need to have the conversation with her. And put her straight if you hear that kind of talk from her again she is gone from your life.

listermint

Sounds like you have supporting family on your partners side.

I'd concentrate my well being with them. Nastyness breeds contempt breeds loneliness. Your sister might realise that on her death bed. Or may never realise it at all.

weemcd

I don't know the details but your sister sounds like an incredibly nasty piece of work and you'd be better off shot of her and concentrating on the people worthwhile in your life. If and when you do have children you will not want her toxic presence around them, as you had growing up.

AlbionCat

I wanted to say that your partner is brilliant and very supportive. There are many that would not be prepared to say anything when to comes to there other family.

I found a strategy that works ( most of the time) with a racist parent. When they came out with a racist term that offended me, I would ask them to repeat it "sorry, I didn't catch that, could you say that again" followed along by the line "I really don't understand what you are trying to say to me, please explain". This usually puts them on the back foot most of the time and shuts them down. Occasionally I have resorted to the "I find that term offensive and I will not continue to talk to you if you continue to use it". And have hung up on them more than once. We do still speak to each other.

This method often works well, especially in a public space as the person suddenly finds themselves having to explain a derogatory term in front of others - thus exposing themselves for the bigot/idiot they are and others around will see.

I find the term "womb faeces" particularly cruel - and I am person who does not have kids, never wanted them and don't particularly like them, and spend much time avoiding places where they are. But without them we won't have the next generation to help us in old age, or to be next super scientist or world leader, so I think they are here to stay 😀

If your happy occasion arises and you are pregnant, I would simply not tell her. It really is none of her business anyway. I would also look at keeping her at arms length ( or at least 10ft barge pole length) and keep contact to a bare minimum. If you can find a way of doing this that keeps your parents happy, I strongly urge you to do so, otherwise, bite the bullet and move her out of life. Stress and strains like this are absolutely no good for anyone and their mental health, and when you are pregnant you will have enough on your plate with hormones,preparing for the arrival and so on.

I hope everything goes ok for you OP, no matter what, try and stay strong and talk to that lovely partner of yours.

I think it's time to stop offering olive branches, stop having chats, stop engaging, and stop enabling.
Distance yourself, say something isn't appropriate if it isn't, be civil if you're all with your parents, and leave it there.

while this applies to MILs, the situation here reminded me of it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/

And if your partner wants to tell her off, let him.

fallen01angel

Hi OP, I'm going to be blunt.....your sister is a horrible,twisted human being.
Why would you want to have anything to do with someone, who judging by your opening post made your childhood a living hell and has mentally scarred you.You and your parents march to her drum,your relationship is STRICTLY on her terms and that will never change.

I understand the fact that she's your only sibling but to be honest,I think you would have been better off as an only child. But you do have choices in this,you can a) do nothing and let her continue on being the absolutely vile human she is, b)contact your sister and lay all your cards on the table, let her know that you're not going to be putting up with any more of her cr*p or c) make the decision to cut the toxicity that is your sister out of your life. Plenty of people have done it,just because you share blood with someone, doesn't make them family.....

Big Bag of Chips

So what's going to happen within the family if you do have children? Will you not be allowed attend family events because she won't want you and your offspring there? Will she guilt your parents into not allowing you visit them for fear of upsetting her?

You've all tiptoed around her for her entire life and you've all inconvenienced yourselves and compromised yourselves for fear of upsetting her.

When will that stop? Will that stop?

wiggle16

She sounds like a thoroughly horrible yoke. I don't think any amount of good behaviour in other ways makes up for that kind of attitude. I'm not a "kid person" myself but refering to an unborn baby as womb faeces?? There is something seriously wrong with her.

I don't have any direct advice for you Lola but I think your sister is missing the irony of the fact that her carry on of being tiptoed around, wanting everything her own way is about as juvenile and childish a behaviour as you can get.

Actually no, I do have advice: tell her that. And let your partner put her in her place. If and when you do have children they will be miles better off without such a toxic person in their environment.

StinkyMunkey

Your sister is a total narcissistic, your need to accept she will never change.

Your best defence against this is to put no stock in what she says. In her mind the world revolves around her and this will always be the case.

Invest your time and effort in those who will support you and who have your best interests at heart.

Anyone who has kids will tell you that its like winning the lottery (granted I wanna kill the little ****s sometimes).

When you tell her your pregnant and she kicks off, either keep quiet and let it blow over or simply tell her that it's made you happy and that's what counts.