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Greystones school - gender neutral uniforms to be introduced.

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24567…31

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    #32
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    This nonsense is getting more and more retarded by the day.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #33
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    Gordon Attractive Deodorant wrote: »
    Let's think through a likely scenario. This was voted in by a school council. The students themselves voted it in and are therefore actively thinking about gender issues.

    Day 1, a boy lands in with a skirt. He's not taking the piss and genuinely feels more comfortable in the skirt. In a school culture where the students have voted in favour of gender neutrality, will this boy get slagged about this revealed preference? This is a mixed school, so not 100% laddish and girls may be more sympathetic to issues of gender. Also, teenage boys like to impress girls. I don't think it will be an issue .

    You're wrong unfortunately.


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    #34
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,117 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    A "gender-neutral uniform" does not mean that the students have to be neutral about gender or about their own gender identities. It just means that the uniform items that you can wear do not depend on the gender you identify with. Girls will be free to be girly girls and dress in the girliest possible fashion and likewise boys can identify and boys and dress as boyishly as they want. Even if no student in the school ever adopts a non-gendered or transgender identity there will be no need to change this rule.


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    #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd have no problem with this. It's highly unlikely that any boy will wear a dress anyway. My 4-year-old, however, would not be impressed as she loves having rules about what boys can and cannot wear or like "because they're boys". If this embrace of gender stereotypes is common the schools will have their work cut out.

    I would, however, feel we should stop projecting personal sexual identity crises which befall a small number of older, sexualised teenagers on to much younger kids and just let primary school kids be kids. I'd be fairly certain bullying is still the greatest impediment to the happiness of kids. To my shock it has been going on in crèche with 3-year-old children. If this change reduces bullying on even one child for his/her sexuality it will be worth it.


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    #36
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    lets see how many boys go to school in the skirts.


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    #37
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    I think we should go back to Greek and Roman times and everyone wears a toga. And the soldiers wear tunics with little leather skirts.


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    #38
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    lets see how many boys go to school in the skirts.

    Wonder if any lads would wear one just for the craic?


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    #39
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    mad muffin wrote: »
    I think we should go back to Greek and Roman times
    it was also quite normal for grown men to interfere with young lads back then


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    #40
    BookNerd
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭BookNerd


    My son was in a mixed primary school with twin girls, one of whom wasn't a just a "tomboy" as the school liked to put it, but was outright adamant she was a boy. From a very young age (pretty much as soon as she was verbal) she wanted to be called by a boys name, played with the boys, wore her hair short etc.
    At the time there was a "girls wear pinafores, boys wear trousers".
    The mother of this child had a nightmare daily trying to get the child into the pinafore. She ended up buying the trousers and just flouting the school rules for the sake of the child's happiness.
    All was fine until secondary school where there were no mixed schools and this child had to go to an all girls school where the uniform was a skirt.
    After much unhappiness on the child's part including self harming and suicidal tendencies, the childs mother moved her to a mixed school involving a 30-40 minute journey each morning.

    IMO there should be no segregation by gender in schools. It's outdated and can be harmful to children/teens who are identifying as a different gender to the one assigned at birth.
    Girls have been able to wear "boys" clothes for years and girls who identify as boys have been able to just fit into their schools as nobody will bat an eyelid at a girl with short hair wearing trousers. It's time we did the same for boys who are identifying as females and allow them to be who they want to be also.
    Isn't it just simple equality?


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    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    it was also quite normal for grown men to interfere with young lads back then

    Hello, David Norris!


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    #42
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,117 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    Wonder if any lads would wear one just for the craic?
    More likely to do that if it's forbidden that if it's permitted, to be honest.


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    #43
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Boys have rights too, a boy wearing a skirt should not be bullied at school. A skirt is just an item of clothing, no big deal. Target the bullys for the harassment they give, not the bullied.


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    #44
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    BookNerd wrote: »
    My son was in a mixed primary school with twin girls, one of whom wasn't a just a "tomboy" as the school liked to put it, but was outright adamant she was a boy. From a very young age (pretty much as soon as she was verbal) she wanted to be called by a boys name, played with the boys, wore her hair short etc.
    At the time there was a "girls wear pinafores, boys wear trousers".
    The mother of this child had a nightmare daily trying to get the child into the pinafore. She ended up buying the trousers and just flouting the school rules for the sake of the child's happiness.
    All was fine until secondary school where there were no mixed schools and this child had to go to an all girls school where the uniform was a skirt.
    After much unhappiness on the child's part including self harming and suicidal tendencies, the childs mother moved her to a mixed school involving a 30-40 minute journey each morning.

    IMO there should be no segregation by gender in schools. It's outdated and can be harmful to children/teens who are identifying as a different gender to the one assigned at birth.
    Girls have been able to wear "boys" clothes for years and girls who identify as boys have been able to just fit into their schools as nobody will bat an eyelid at a girl with short hair wearing trousers. It's time we did the same for boys who are identifying as females and allow them to be who they want to be also.
    Isn't it just simple equality?

    so you think there are so many transgender kids in the world that we should do away with the choice of segregated schools?


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    #45
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,184 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    mad muffin wrote: »
    I think we should go back to Greek and Roman times and everyone wears a toga. And the soldiers wear tunics with little leather skirts.

    I totally agree

    tenor.gif


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    #46
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    More likely to do that if it's forbidden that if it's permitted, to be honest.

    No, uniform in my school for lads was fairly strict - blazer, blue shirt with tie, and pullover, with grey or black slacks.

    7 years there, started aged 12, and left aged 18 and I never seen a lad wear a skirt in all them years.


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    #47
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Wibbs wrote: »
    This nonsense is getting more and more retarded by the day.

    You would think that those "enlightened" people who are pushing for these types of reforms in all aspects of our lives are the majority on this Island.
    They are not; they are a small vocal minority.

    There will be a push-back one of these days.


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    #48
    embers_fire
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭embers_fire


    Woke Hogan wrote: »
    Not doing something because you might get bullied is cowardice. Children should be taught to stand up to bullies not bend to their will.

    Not doing something because you might get bullied is sensible. Standing up to bullies can result in a child getting the crap knocked out of him repeatedly.
    What would you propose a bullied child would do? If he was wearing a skirt he'd probably be in the minority, he could be on his own against a gang of bigger kids.


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    #49
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,184 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    embers_fire wrote: »
    Not doing something because you might get bullied is sensible. Standing up to bullies can result in a child getting the crap knocked out of him repeatedly.
    What would you propose a bullied child would do? If he was wearing a skirt he'd probably be in the minority, he could be on his own against a gang of bigger kids.

    what would be sensible is for the school to stamp out bullying.


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    #50
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,184 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Kivaro wrote: »
    You would think that those "enlightened" people who are pushing for these types of reforms in all aspects of our lives are the majority on this Island.
    They are not; they are a small vocal minority.

    There will be a push-back one of these days.

    this was prompted by the students themselves.


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    #51
    Woke Hogan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭Woke Hogan


    embers_fire wrote: »
    Not doing something because you might get bullied is sensible. Standing up to bullies can result in a child getting the crap knocked out of him repeatedly.
    What would you propose a bullied child would do? If he was wearing a skirt he'd probably be in the minority, he could be on his own against a gang of bigger kids.
    It's cowardly. If you raise your child to kowtow to bullies, you are raising a coward.

    As for what the bullied child (and their parents) should do: go to the teachers, go to the other kids' parents, go to the police. There are different avenues.


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    #52
    BookNerd
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭BookNerd


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    so you think there are so many transgender kids in the world that we should do away with the choice of segregated schools?

    No, I think that there are a host of advantages and disadvantages to same sex schools for all kids. I personally would come down on being against segregation on the basis of gender in most aspects of life unless there is a safety/privacy issue (eg - prisons, wards in hospitals etc)


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    #53
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    this was prompted by the students themselves.
    Yep, and the next thing prompted by the students will be school attendance need not be mandatory.


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    #54
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,184 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Kivaro wrote: »
    Yep, and the next thing prompted by the students will be school attendance need not be mandatory.

    one has no effect on the running of the school and the other does. One does not have laws that make it mandatory and the other does. I'm sure you can see why the two might not be the same.


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wibbs wrote: »
    This nonsense is getting more and more retarded by the day.

    Knowing the lads that my daughter grew up with. I could see a bunch of them going into school wearing skirts just to be messers.


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    #56
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    I have no issue with it at all. However I would hope that any transgender males who are wearing skirts etc don't use it as an excuse to go to school with too much make up and treating it like a Saturday night Disco.

    The concept of a uniform is to reduce the competition of style and fashion on both the parents pockets and the teenagers minds. It can get out of hand. A uniform also conditions teenagers that society has rules and regulations and that learning conformity is part of growing up, not as a Nazi or anything but just that some humans actually like norms, they are comfortable with them.

    The Op is damn right about the bullying issue, however lets' be honest teenager's are bullying as a rule, it is part of growing up.

    Finally, I welcome this approach as a whole as it allows people to now really express themselves, this is a positive development. It is what freedom is about.


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    #57
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,055 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    “We have children who are questioning their sexual identity. It is happening at an earlier age. We want all our children to have a happy experience in school".

    It's a primary school FFS. Let children be children.

    If you think 10-12 year old kids are completely unaware of their sexual identity, you are in for a surprise should you ever become a parent.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #58
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,055 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    You realise we are talking about UNIFORMS!!!!

    True, you could extend that point to the whole idea of education.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #59
    BookNerd
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭BookNerd


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    However I would hope that any transgender males who are wearing skirts etc don't use it as an excuse to go to school with too much make up and treating it like a Saturday night Disco.

    I'd imagine the precedence would be set by the rules for all the girls in the school.
    Some schools don't have rules about tan, makeup etc. Others do. I would imagine any child identifying as female would be subject to the same rules as the other female students.


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    #60
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    Wonder if any lads would wear one just for the craic?

    Have you seen the scandalous prices of them skirts?!


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    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'd have no problem with this. It's highly unlikely that any boy will wear a dress anyway. My 4-year-old, however, would not be impressed as she loves having rules about what boys can and cannot wear or like "because they're boys". If this embrace of gender stereotypes is common the schools will have their work cut out.

    I would, however, feel we should stop projecting personal sexual identity crises which befall a small number of older, sexualised teenagers on to much younger kids and just let primary school kids be kids. I'd be fairly certain bullying is still the greatest impediment to the happiness of kids. To my shock it has been going on in crèche with 3-year-old children. If this change reduces bullying on even one child for his/her sexuality it will be worth it.

    I think we should stop projecting what we think gender is and just let people be.

    Your 4 year old didn't lick that off a stamp.


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