Ireland- Minimumwage Land

Franz Von Peppercorn II

_blaaz wrote: »

I think its like 55% population earn under 28K

Low wages,crap conditions and poor job security are hallmark of irish economy for large tracts of people under 30....theres a huge age divide,

That <28k is all income not wages. It’s what most of us will be earning when retired. Average wages are >40k.

Yurt2

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

That <28k is all income not wages. It’s what most of us will be earning when retired. Average wages are >40k.

A lot of f*ckery goes on around stats with the 'average salary' in Ireland. Of more interest to people and policy makers should be the median salary, which is where most workers will be clustered around.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-64-of-workers-in-ireland-earn-less-than-the-average-salary-4562071-Apr2019/

d8491prj5boyvg

Assetbacked wrote: »

This is the cost of unrestrained and dogmatic "growth", particularly in Dublin. We are beyond full capacity in terms of infrastructure yet there is no sign of an end to more jobs and immigration of workers to Dublin. As a result, workers are getting more and more hammered. A slowdown would be most welcome for those already secure.

FYP. Damn those whipper snappers looking for what the rest of us have, taking up space on our LUAS.

d8491prj5boyvg

Yurt! wrote: »

A lot of f*ckery goes on around stats with the 'average salary' in Ireland. Of more interest to people and policy makers should be the median salary, which is where most workers will be clustered around.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-64-of-workers-in-ireland-earn-less-than-the-average-salary-4562071-Apr2019/

Agreed. Also, part time workers skew these statistics downwards. We all interpret these figures relative to full-time employment. A large chunk of workers are part-time through choice.

kneemos

Sasha Early Litterbug wrote: »

Agreed. Also, part time workers skew these statistics downwards. We all interpret these figures relative to full-time employment. A large chunk of workers are part-time through choice.

Nearly half a million part time employed.

https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/part-time-employment

LirW

Sasha Early Litterbug wrote: »

Agreed. Also, part time workers skew these statistics downwards. We all interpret these figures relative to full-time employment. A large chunk of workers are part-time through choice.

Not always by choice. There are a fair share of fields that do an awful lot of job sharing or solely give out part time work (a lot of people in Aldi for example are on part time contracts) or 0-hour contracts.

I think there are a lot of people out there in established careers that struggle to understand that there are entire fields that build their businesses around precarious work.

cgcsb

D3V!L wrote: »

Sorry I'm going to be flamed for this but why would anyone think that they're entitled to get more than the bare minimum for an unskilled job !!

Of course you can't afford a house, car and the luxury of daily trappings. That's not what it's meant for.

Most posters here are ignoring the fact that only 7% of workers are on the minimum wage and an all time low of 4.4% of workers are underemployed(i.e. working less hours than they'd like to). They're pushing a narrative more and more people working less and less hours for min wage, because they 'know somone' that happened to, ignoring the statistics of course. There has never been a society in human history where the bottom 7% of earners can buy a home, unless you count economies built on a layer of slave labour where they aren't counted as earners or citizens.

kneemos

LirW wrote: »

Not always by choice. There are a fair share of fields that do an awful lot of job sharing or solely give out part time work (a lot of people in Aldi for example are on part time contracts) or 0-hour contracts.

I think there are a lot of people out there in established careers that struggle to understand that there are entire fields that build their businesses around precarious work.

Employees market.

_blaaz

cgcsb wrote: »

Most posters here are ignoring the fact that only 7% of workers are on the minimum wage and an all time low of 4.4% of workers are underemployed(i.e. working less hours than they'd like to). They're pushing a narrative more and more people working less and less hours for min wage, because they 'know somone' that happened to, ignoring the statistics of course. There has never been a society in human history where the bottom 7% of earners can buy a home, unless you count economies built on a layer of slave labour where they aren't counted as earners or citizens.

What are the statistics for people under 30??....its tough going out there for people.my age anyway in terms of pay/job security



This notion that the countrys booming and its ok to screw over young people with sh1t wages is going to come back to haunt the state....theres a generation there ripe for picking for extremists who will eventually tap into it

cgcsb

_blaaz wrote: »

Hardly much point in expecting people.to work a job,if you cant have a reasonable lifestyle off it??



Whats point of that kind of job that deosnt pay enough to live off...you'd be better off on the dole in many cases

because different folks have different expectations. When I was working 3 days a week for min wage while in college for example, my expectation wasn't that it'd give me life long comfort. Similarly the 45 year old woman rejoining the workforce after her children became teenagers, didn't have those expectations as a secondary bread winner within her household. IF you want all min wage workers to afford a high standard of living, you might get used to your latte costing €18, which of course will put upward pressure on your wages to and indeed everyones.

cgcsb

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's true we've more children homeless today.

The tens of thousands of children getting bet and raped senseless daily in 1950s institutions were, in fact, homeless. There are now far less of them and they often are accommodated in hotels and are perfectly safe.

_blaaz

IF you want all min wage workers to afford a high standard of living, you might get used to your latte costing €18, which of course will put upward pressure on your wages to and indeed everyones.

Just aswell i dont drink latte then....but as i said whats point expecting people to work jobs that dont offer any significant improvement in lifestyle over the dole??



Seems a system failure to think people should work for crap pay to provide others with cheap lattes?

cgcsb

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If people want it, and it's a vote winner and it's the right thing to do for the country then why don't they do it?

I suspect it's because politicians are beholden to old people who vote most reliably. And old people don't have a clue about the hardships faced by young people in terms of job security, wage growth vs cost of buying a house or having a family.

I suspect that if a politician actually p dry opposed a massive programme of house building, on the scale that's needed to actually fix the problem, they would be branded loony left.

They're voters mostly own homes. The problem for FFG is that the babyboomer homeowners have pulled up the ladder and there's a generation of middle class people who can't afford to house themselves. They've made the mistake of pinning themselves to an ageing/dying demographic at the expense of younger voters.

cgcsb

_blaaz wrote: »

What are the statistics for people under 30??....its tough going out there for people.my age anyway in terms of pay/job security



This notion that the countrys booming and its ok to screw over young people with sh1t wages is going to come back to haunt the state....theres a generation there ripe for picking for extremists who will eventually tap into it

The problem isn't wages, it's the cost of housing.

cgcsb

_blaaz wrote: »

Just aswell i dont drink latte then....but as i said whats point expecting people to work jobs that dont offer any significant improvement in lifestyle over the dole??

That's a false assumption though. The dole is €203 p/w or €880 per month. A 39 hour week at min wage gives you about €1600, almost double the dole.

_blaaz wrote: »

Seems a system failure to think people should work for crap pay to provide others with cheap lattes?

The pay isn't crap though, it's the second highest in Europe.

Auguste Comte

cgcsb wrote: »

The problem isn't wages, it's the cost of housing.

Exactly, it's the policy of privatising essential public services eg, housing, health care etc.

These are now products to be sold for the maximum price that the "market" can bear leaving those at the bottom of the financial ladder struggling.

cgcsb

If a full time worker on the min wage could realistically expect to be housed within the M50 by DCC in a one bed, for say €300 p/m, 4 or 5 weeks after applying then this thread wouldn't exist.

_blaaz

cgcsb wrote: »

That's a false assumption though. The dole is €203 p/w or €880 per month. A 39 hour week at min wage gives you about €1600, almost double the dole.



The pay isn't crap though, it's the second highest in Europe.

Do you know anyone on min wage that regularly gets a 39 hour week....i dont

_blaaz

cgcsb wrote: »

They're voters mostly own homes. The problem for FFG is that the babyboomer homeowners have pulled up the ladder and there's a generation of middle class people who can't afford to house themselves. They've made the mistake of pinning themselves to an ageing/dying demographic at the expense of younger voters.

This is mind boggling...they should been party of power for next 30 years....instead theyve thrown FF a lifeline

somefeen

_blaaz wrote: »

Do you know anyone on min wage that regularly gets a 39 hour week....i dont

I know an entire warehouse full of lads doing 50 - 60 hours on minimum wage.
I don't know if that's somehow worse because at min wage you need to take all the hours you legally can to earn something decent.

cgcsb

_blaaz wrote: »

Do you know anyone on min wage that regularly gets a 39 hour week....i dont

I don't have to, I know from the CSO that the proportion of workers on the min wage is 7.6% and the proportion of workers who are underemployed is 4.4%. Given that the are not mutually exclusive groups, one can deduce that the numbers are very small.

LirW

kneemos wrote: »

Employees market.

I don't know if you've been job searching lately, yes there are jobs, plenty of them and honestly a lot of them come with absolute sh1te contracts.
I've been super lucky to score something quite alright just recently but I interviewed for some really crappy jobs that still are not unskilled by the way.
And now imagine how it it outside of Dublin. The amount of companies that aren't willing to pay good staff more than a tenner per hour is crazy.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Yurt! wrote: »

A lot of f*ckery goes on around stats with the 'average salary' in Ireland. Of more interest to people and policy makers should be the median salary, which is where most workers will be clustered around.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-64-of-workers-in-ireland-earn-less-than-the-average-salary-4562071-Apr2019/

He also did that trick of moving from average wages to median income. Obviously we do need an median salary/wages worked out by the cso though.

Geuze

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

_blaaz wrote: »

I think its like 55% population earn under 28K

Low wages,crap conditions and poor job security are hallmark of irish economy for large tracts of people under 30....theres a huge age divide,

Some household gross income data published today.


https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-gpii/geographicalprofilesofincomeinireland2016/

Median hh gross income = 45,256 in 2016.

This is household data.

This is incomes data, not just labour earnings.

Geuze

Yurt! wrote: »

A lot of f*ckery goes on around stats with the 'average salary' in Ireland. Of more interest to people and policy makers should be the median salary, which is where most workers will be clustered around.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-64-of-workers-in-ireland-earn-less-than-the-average-salary-4562071-Apr2019/

Median earnings were 41,829 in 2014.

See here, but you'll have to do some digging:

https://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do?dataset=earn_ses_annual&lang=en

That's for FT workers in the sectors:

Industry, construction and services (except public administration, defense, compulsory social security)

Geuze

Sasha Early Litterbug wrote: »

Agreed. Also, part time workers skew these statistics downwards. We all interpret these figures relative to full-time employment. A large chunk of workers are part-time through choice.

Median earnings for FT workers in 2014 was 41,829.

James Brown

amcalester wrote: »

I’m still no closer to understanding what you’re saying.

You said people should shoot higher than minimum wage.
I said it's not so easy to move up and gave an example of a 16 year old leaving school early for a minimum wage job.
Then you cited stats saying some of them weren't working, for reasons best beknownst to yourself.

*******

Anyone with any kind of a full time job should be able to fend for themselves without state aid. That's the goal, not giving out that they get too much state aid. Or they are pretending, self entitled or some other apologist Tory shyte.

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cgcsb wrote: »

The pay isn't crap though, it's the second highest in Europe.

This means very little when the 'cost of living' index is double 10 other EU countries. The only place higher is a couple of very small unique states (Lux/Swiss) or a few nordic states: Iceland, Norway and Denmark.

And it's 13th for purchasing power (including the whole continent with russ & ukraine), hence that's why shopping on Amazon.de is more bang per buck.

Yurt2

Geuze wrote: »

Median earnings were 41,829 in 2014.

See here, but you'll have to do some digging:

https://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do?dataset=earn_ses_annual&lang=en

That's for FT workers in the sectors:

Industry, construction and services (except public administration, defense, compulsory social security)

Still not exactly a national median figure if it excludes a large sector of the workforce and also excludes part time workers.

The CSO figures released today paint a less rosy picture.

It's still beyond me why the CSO don't just publish the median on an individual basis. Almost every national stat agency (UK, US, NZ) does so.

Any calculations I've see by third party economists the figure is in or about 35k. Obviously that deserves an asterisk as it's not the CSO compiling and publishing.

cgcsb

Tate Sticky Pear wrote: »

This means very little when the 'cost of living' index is double 10 other EU countries. The only place higher is a couple of very small unique states (Lux/Swiss) or a few nordic states: Iceland, Norway and Denmark.

And it's 13th for purchasing power (including the whole continent with russ & ukraine), hence that's why shopping on Amazon.de is more bang per buck.

And this is why I say that the cost of housing is the problem, everyone should have access to housing for less than 30% of their income as a minimum.