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Pro14 Season 2019-2020

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    #632
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    More people watching the less number of games = more money.

    Where do you get the dramatic increase in spectators needed for that?


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    #633
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,038 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    stephen_n wrote: »
    Are attendances not up overall, I seem to remember some marketing blurb at the end of last season suggesting that?

    i just had a quick look at this... but heres average attendances over the last 6 years

    18/19 8240
    17/18 8561
    16/17 8771
    15/16 8480
    14/15 8586
    13/14 8205

    The last two years might be slightly skewed by the addition of the two SA teams, especially the abysmal Kings attendances, but the trend certainly doesnt show that attendances are in any way significantly up on previous years.


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    #634
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    The average attendance at Pro14 games is always skewed by the games at the Aviva and Millennium, e.g. technically Dragons got 50,000 people to a home game last year when their "true" home crowd is somewhere between 3,000 and 4,000.


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    #635
    Rigor Mortis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,901 ✭✭✭Rigor Mortis


    Arguably the Welsh attendances are skewed in comparative terms, but not the overall average. Those people showed and paid an entry fee. They should be counted in the average.
    The Aviva does not skew average attendances upward any more than a home fixture v Zebre / Kings skews downward. 40k+ people want to watch a pro14 game.
    The Prem also has these big day fixtures in Twickenham. Quinns and Sarries both do this.


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    #636
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Think there was 75k or something at a Premiership game in Twickenham at some point over the Xmas period.


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    #637
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    Think there was 75k or something at a Premiership game in Twickenham at some point over the Xmas period.

    Yep, Harlequins v Leicester. Didn't the Prem also have a game in the States last season, or something?


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    #638
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,601 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    aloooof wrote: »
    Yep, Harlequins v Leicester. Didn't the Prem also have a game in the States last season, or something?

    I think it was a disaster right? Two years ago.


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    #639
    Exclamation Marc
    Registered Users Posts: 11,326 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    errlloyd wrote: »
    I think it was a disaster right? Two years ago.

    Newcastle played Sarries in Philadephia in 2017 with an attendance of around 6k in a 18.5k stadium.

    The year before, LI played Sarries in New York and I think the stadium was maybe 2/3 full.


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    #640
    Utah_Saint
    Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭Utah_Saint


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    More people watching the less number of games = more money.

    I have pitched this on here before. I believe the Rugby should try to emulate the NFL. Fewer games of much higher quality and a bigger spectacle. The only way this will happen is a euro league or at least a Brtian&Ireland league.

    Rugby in its current form is probably at or near its spectator ceiling. There are more and more sports competing for our attention and money. Plus parents are a little more reluctant to allow their kids to play a highly attritional sport where potential earnings; if turning pro across a 10year playing span no better than a Lawyer, banker or Developer.


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    #641
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,830 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Utah_Saint wrote: »
    Plus parents are a little more reluctant to allow their kids to play a highly attritional sport where potential earnings; if turning pro across a 10year playing span no better than a Lawyer, banker or Developer.

    I doubt many parents are thinking about earning potential of their child when bringing them along to play underage sport.


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    #642
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Utah_Saint wrote: »
    I have pitched this on here before. I believe the Rugby should try to emulate the NFL. Fewer games of much higher quality and a bigger spectacle. The only way this will happen is a euro league or at least a Brtian&Ireland league.
    fewer games will not drive up attendances at other games. If you reduce pro14 games you need to find other games for squad players. A European league wont happen and I dont think B&I will happen for while yet if ever...
    Rugby in its current form is probably at or near its spectator ceiling. There are more and more sports competing for our attention and money. Plus parents are a little more reluctant to allow their kids to play a highly attritional sport where potential earnings; if turning pro across a 10year playing span no better than a Lawyer, banker or Developer.
    I really dont see it near its ceiling. And you havent a notion if you think there is parents who will not let their kid play rugby because of potential earnings.


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    #643
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭OldRio


    [QUOTE=Utah_Saint;112176333

    Rugby in its current form is probably at or near its spectator ceiling. There are more and more sports competing for our attention and money. Plus parents are a little more reluctant to allow their kids to play a highly attritional sport where potential earnings; if turning pro across a 10year playing span no better than a Lawyer, banker or Developer.[/QUOTE]

    I have no such worries about my grandchildren playing rugby. I'd be a damn site more concerned if they became a Lawyer, banker or developer. Criminality does not run in the family 😀


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    #644
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,287 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Former Former wrote: »
    The average attendance at Pro14 games is always skewed by the games at the Aviva and Millennium, e.g. technically Dragons got 50,000 people to a home game last year when their "true" home crowd is somewhere between 3,000 and 4,000.

    The Aviva game isn’t really skewing the numbers as those people have paid for a ticket and attended.


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    #645
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,016 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    salmocab wrote: »
    The Aviva game isn’t really skewing the numbers as those people have paid for a ticket and attended.

    But Millennium Stadium is not a 'home' game for Dragons is it? Their ground holds c10,000 afaik. To count the Millenium double header each season in Dragons crowd figures is skewing the numbers IMHO.


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    #646
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,287 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    But Millennium Stadium is not a 'home' game for Dragons is it? Their ground holds c10,000 afaik. To count the Millenium double header each season in Dragons crowd figures is skewing the numbers IMHO.

    It’s the double header part that skews the numbers not the stadium


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    #647
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,016 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    salmocab wrote: »
    It’s the double header part that skews the numbers not the stadium

    So if there was a one off game at Millennium Stadium e.g. Dragons vs Cardiff similar to Twickenham's Christmas encounter and 30,000 turned up that wouldn't skew the numbers?


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    #648
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,287 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    So if there was a one off game at Millennium Stadium e.g. Dragons vs Cardiff similar to Twickenham's Christmas encounter and 30,000 turned up that wouldn't skew the numbers?

    No because 30,000 people turned up and bought a ticket. It’s how averages work, this argument of the average was x but that’s thrown because of one match in a different stadium doesn’t hold water just like all the other games the punters bought tickets and showed up.


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    #649
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,386 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    salmocab wrote: »
    No because 30,000 people turned up and bought a ticket. It’s how averages work, this argument of the average was x but that’s thrown because of one match in a different stadium doesn’t hold water just like all the other games the punters bought tickets and showed up.

    It does skew the number. There are different types of averages. It's like a company saying their average salary is 100k, but the CEO earns millions while most staff earn a lot less than the average.

    In this case, one or two fixtures are dragging the average up.

    It would be interesting to know how the median pro14 attendance compares to the mean.


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    #650
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    salmocab wrote: »
    No because 30,000 people turned up and bought a ticket. It’s how averages work, this argument of the average was x but that’s thrown because of one match in a different stadium doesn’t hold water just like all the other games the punters bought tickets and showed up.

    Yes, that's correct.

    The point was that using the average attendance as a gauge of public interest in the league is not really useful.

    The Dragons average home crowd is probably 8 or 9,000 - but the median is probably 4,000 and it's the latter which is more representative of how many people care about them. The average is meaningless.


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    #651
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,650 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    With talk around attendances, this is interesting.. https://twitter.com/EsportifIntel/status/1215250021173616642?s=19


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    #652
    Rigor Mortis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,901 ✭✭✭Rigor Mortis


    Eod100 wrote: »
    With talk around attendances, this is interesting.. https://twitter.com/EsportifIntel/status/1215250021173616642?s=19

    Nice to see the increase, but an average figure for Leinster which does not include our largest game of the season is meaningless. Good to see Beneton picking up and the SA teams


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    #653
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,830 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Rigor Mortis wrote: »
    Nice to see the increase, but an average figure for Leinster which does not include our largest game of the season is meaningless. Good to see Beneton picking up and the SA teams


    Leinsters average attendance in the RDS is up. That's good news. The Aviva game actually skews the figures as it's 2-3 times the normal attendance.


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    #654
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    It makes sense to be excluded here I think, as it's just Pro14 fixtures, and the Aviva game vs Munster hasn't taken place yet this season.

    It would actually skew the results to include it for 2018/19 as you wouldn't be comparing like-with-like.

    (At least, that's what it reads like; it's a little ambiguous if it is just Pro14 attendances or attendances for Pro14 teams, say).


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    #655
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,650 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    aloooof wrote: »
    It makes sense to be excluded here I think, as it's just Pro14 fixtures, and the Aviva game vs Munster hasn't taken place yet this season.

    It would actually skew the results to include it for 2018/19 as you wouldn't be comparing like-with-like.

    (At least, that's what it reads like; it's a little ambiguous if it is just Pro14 attendances or attendances for Pro14 teams, say).

    Yeah it is a bit unclear but much reading is that they're excluding Champions Cup afaik


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    #656
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,145 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Kings 10-0 cheetahs

    9 min in


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    #657
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Well that was some finish!


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    #658
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,016 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Well that was some finish!

    Pineaar was the difference.


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    #659
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Assuming Cheetahs get the maximum at home to the Kings that puts them seven points clear of Glasgow. They also end their season with another away game to the Kings. That leaves nine more games and six of those are at home. They should be finishing in the top three but the guaranteed derbies really imbalances things in their favour...


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    #660
    Bogwoppit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    Looking for some help to see if this is possible.

    I’m looking to take some clients out to the Ulster Leinster game at the end of the season, that’s easy enough to do.
    As it’s the last game of the regular season it’s likely that it will be a dead rubber and pretty low on the entertainment.
    I was thinking I could possibly try work out where the 2 teams would meet in the knockout stages and get them to a more meaningful match.
    I can’t find a fixture list for the play offs to attempt to work out the possibilities, am I being optimist about managing to do it?
    Thanks


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    #661
    ClanofLams
    Registered Users Posts: 4,210 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    Bogwoppit wrote: »
    Looking for some help to see if this is possible.

    I’m looking to take some clients out to the Ulster Leinster game at the end of the season, that’s easy enough to do.
    As it’s the last game of the regular season it’s likely that it will be a dead rubber and pretty low on the entertainment.
    I was thinking I could possibly try work out where the 2 teams would meet in the knockout stages and get them to a more meaningful match.
    I can’t find a fixture list for the play offs to attempt to work out the possibilities, am I being optimist about managing to do it?
    Thanks

    Assuming they come first and second they won’t meet until the final in Cardiff.


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