Unusual situation, anyone any advice/insights?

The_Conductor

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

One other consideration is whether tax is due on the inheritances.

+1
Regardless of whether, or not, the property is sold- subject to inheritance thresholds- inheritance tax is still due to be paid immediately- not when the asset is finally disposed of.

sunnysoutheast

Old diesel wrote: »

Am I going soft or am I the only one that would be happy to wait to get my inheritance from house sale if it prevented the tenant becoming homeless.

(Given that rent is actually being paid still).

The debt of the beneficiaries really shouldnt be the OPs problem.

I'd say you'd be the only one, yes. Maybe do a poll?!

Spanish Eyes

Thanks for all your comments, much appreciated.

The Inheritance tax is the responsibility of the beneficiary. The executor used to have secondary liability in the event that the benefiaries did not comply with the rules, but thankfully that is no longer the case.

I would just like to say that if anyone is thinking of making a will PLEASE appoint at least two executors. It is a difficult enough job, but having to do it on your own is hard work!

Anyway, I will get legal advice, will liaise with the council, and let the beneficiaries know the state of play. They already know verbally, but I will get my solicitor to put it in writing also.

If there are any developments, I will update the thread.

the_syco

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

But this has to be done, I am under a legal obligation to distribute the estate within a year, and that is nearly up now. Although the beneficiaries will not sue me (famous last words!), they all could do with a few bob and that is what their aunt wanted at the end of the day.

So, you intend on selling? Isn't selling a reason to evict? So start eviction proceedings. And then evict with a sheriff if they don't leave?

phildin

Regarding starting eviction proceedings, there's a few more steps before eviction can be considered, you have to issue a notice of termination listing the reason (selling in this case). This appears to have been done but the tenants are not moving and have been advised to not move by the council.

If the original notice was valid then the RTB should uphold it and issue a determination but you cannot do anything until the RTB hear the case and issue their determination.

If a determination is issued, hopefully the council will take the issue more seriously. If not, then the OP can look at going to court and present the RTB determination to a judge. The judge would likely issue a court order telling the tenants to leave by a certain date. The OP will have to wait for the order to be issued and for whatever date was specified on the order to pass.

If they ignore court the order and stay beyond the specified date then the OP can start talking about forced evictions with the sheriff. I don't know anything about this procedure but without first going through the RTB and then at least one court hearing, no eviction will be possible.

beauf

Old diesel wrote: »

Am I going soft or am I the only one that would be happy to wait to get my inheritance from house sale if it prevented the tenant becoming homeless.

(Given that rent is actually being paid still).

The debt of the beneficiaries really shouldnt be the OPs problem.

The issue will be the tax and the huge fines and penalties for not paying it on time.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/gift-and-inheritance-tax-cat/what-charges-are-there-for-late-filing.aspx

Would you be happy to pay those fines to prevent someone being homeless?

The irony here is that it's the govt and council causing the housing problem and the fine thorough over holding. It's also the govt who will get the money from the fine.

The only loser here is the new landlord/beneficiaries. Who could they sue? How much would it cost? It's a stalemate basically.

The beneficiaries might have to consider a loan to pay any taxes due to avoid the fine.

Even when the tenant leaves it might take a long time to sell the property. The rules on tax and fines are really out of touch with reality on this.

4ensic15

beauf wrote: »

The issue will be the tax and the huge fines and penalties for not paying it on time.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/gift-and-inheritance-tax-cat/what-charges-are-there-for-late-filing.aspx

Would you be happy to pay those fines to prevent someone being homeless?

The irony here is that it's the govt and council causing the housing problem and the fine thorough over holding. It's also the govt who will get the money from the fine.

The only loser here is the new landlord/beneficiaries. Who could they sue? How much would it cost? It's a stalemate basically.

The beneficiaries might have to consider a loan to pay any taxes due to avoid the fine.

Even when the tenant leaves it might take a long time to sell the property. The rules on tax and fines are really out of touch with reality on this.

The beneficiaries will have to pay tax on the value of their inheritance whether they have received any money or not. Unless they have plenty of cash in the bank they will have serious problems if they have a large tax liability and no funds to pay it.

Old diesel

beauf wrote: »

Old diesel wrote: »

Am I going soft or am I the only one that would be happy to wait to get my inheritance from house sale if it prevented the tenant becoming homeless.

(Given that rent is actually being paid still).

The debt of the beneficiaries really shouldnt be the OPs problem.

The issue will be the tax and the huge fines and penalties for not paying it on time.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/gift-and-inheritance-tax-cat/what-charges-are-there-for-late-filing.aspx

Would you be happy to pay those fines to prevent someone being homeless?

The irony here is that it's the govt and council causing the housing problem and the fine thorough over holding. It's also the govt who will get the money from the fine.

The only loser here is the new landlord/beneficiaries. Who could they sue? How much would it cost? It's a stalemate basically.

The beneficiaries might have to consider a loan to pay any taxes due to avoid the fine.

Even when the tenant leaves it might take a long time to sell the property. The rules on tax and fines are really out of touch with reality on this.

My thinking was that the Beneficiaries haven't actually got the inheritance yet.

Hence why the OP still has the legal issues.

Does the tax still apply if the beneficiaries have yet actually get the property into their hands yet.

Because if the Beneficiaries have actually taken control of the property that would turn the thread on its head entirely.

4ensic15

Old diesel wrote: »

My thinking was that the Beneficiaries haven't actually got the inheritance yet.

Hence why the OP still has the legal issues.

Does the tax still apply if the beneficiaries have yet actually get the property into their hands yet.

Because if the Beneficiaries have actually taken control of the property that would turn the thread on its head entirely.

Once the house is inherited the tax becomes due, whether or not anyone has got any money. Depending on the time in the year the inheritance may not have to be declared for few months and the money not paid for a further period. It is not when the beneficiaries get a cheque in their hand that they are deemed to have got an inheritance. It is from the date of death (in most cases).

Old diesel

Old diesel wrote: »

Am I going soft or am I the only one that would be happy to wait to get my inheritance from house sale if it prevented the tenant becoming homeless.

(Given that rent is actually being paid still).

The debt of the beneficiaries really shouldnt be the OPs problem.

I got this a bit wrong as it seems the inheritance tax becomes due faster then I would have thought.

Apologies

devlinio

My parents had a tenant not pay rent. She was in receipt of rent allowance. She destroyed the house, my parents had no rent for 4 months, and it cost 10K and 3 months of us working on it to bring it up to scratch. She refused to acknowledge the notice, and Threshold advised her to stay (shower of bastards). She moved out when my parents paid her back her deposit of 1K.

So 15K out of pocket, but they have had two different tenants in that house for the last 6 years, with no issue. 99% of tenants will be great.

bingbong500

The_Conductor wrote: »

If the tenant decides they can't find alternate accommodation- they could potentially play the system-

I'm sure you are actually aware that many people evicted in this way actually cannot find alternative accomodation and have no wish to play any system. What would you do if you have a house, are evicted from it, and there is nowhere who will take you as a tenant for a rent you can afford?
What should someone do in that situation?

4ensic15

bingbong500 wrote: »

I'm sure you are actually aware that many people evicted in this way actually cannot find alternative accomodation and have no wish to play any system. What would you do if you have a house, are evicted from it, and there is nowhere who will take you as a tenant for a rent you can afford?
What should someone do in that situation?

That is like saying that if you have no money for food you can just go into shops or restaurants and help yourself for free.

Old diesel

bingbong500 wrote: »

The_Conductor wrote: »

If the tenant decides they can't find alternate accommodation- they could potentially play the system-

I'm sure you are actually aware that many people evicted in this way actually cannot find alternative accomodation and have no wish to play any system. What would you do if you have a house, are evicted from it, and there is nowhere who will take you as a tenant for a rent you can afford?
What should someone do in that situation?

What if the person who owns or is managing the property can't actually afford to have someone overstay in the property.

What if the landlord actually needs to live in it ASAP.

It's a real mess though because frequently the option is to rock up to the council homeless section and end up getting into emergency accommodation.

The problem with people overstaying (in general) is that that being able to do it for a long period of a year or more is added risk for the landlord.

That risk might mean he sells up and NO ONE can then rent it. It's also a disincentive to a new buy to let investor.

The_Conductor

Ironically- in both Galway and Dublin (don't know about Cork)- property owners who sought to move back into their own, sole, property- have ended up in emergency local authority accommodation- when their tenants refused to vacate the units they were in. I wish I were joking. The system doesn't work.

beauf

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I am the executor of a relative's will. The property is to be sold and proceeds divided. Probate has been granted.

....

What do you think? Ask any questions you wish. I am just so frustrated.

I think this is going to be more common. The system has no means to handle this situation.

At this point the beneficiaries have to accept that it's not going to be sorted for a long time. You the executor might consider if you are not getting anything. It might be a consideration to renunciate.

bingbong500

4ensic15 wrote: »

That is like saying that if you have no money for food you can just go into shops or restaurants and help yourself for free.

It isn't, but tbh if you are actually starving I have no moral issue with you stealing a loaf of bread from Tesco.

The point being that you can be doing the "wrong thing" for non bad reasons. And you didn't answer me: what would you do? Would you leave your rented home with nowhere to go? Then what?

I'm not saying its good to do it, or that it doesn't completely suck for the landlord. I'm just saying that its understandable when people have no other options, and most of us would do the exact same if we had nowhere else to go.

None of us would say "alright mate, fair enough, it's your house after all, I'll take a sleeping bag and find a nice doorway....."

4ensic15

bingbong500 wrote: »

It isn't, but tbh if you are actually starving I have no moral issue with you stealing a loaf of bread from Tesco.

The point being that you can be doing the "wrong thing" for non bad reasons. And you didn't answer me: what would you do? Would you leave your rented home with nowhere to go? Then what?

I'm not saying its good to do it, or that it doesn't completely suck for the landlord. I'm just saying that its understandable when people have no other options, and most of us would do the exact same if we had nowhere else to go.

None of us would say "alright mate, fair enough, it's your house after all, I'll take a sleeping bag and find a nice doorway....."

All right. You are a dishonourable thief.

bingbong500

4ensic15 wrote: »

All right. You are a dishonourable thief.

I am? In what way? I'm not OP's tenant! Not that I agree with the premise that the tenant is either dishonourable or a thief, but still, the point stands.

Still didn't answer the question I note.

4ensic15

bingbong500 wrote: »

I am? In what way? I'm not OP's tenant! Not that I agree with the premise that the tenant is either dishonourable or a thief, but still, the point stands.

Still didn't answer the question I note.

What question?

BarryD2

beauf wrote: »

The reality is we are being priced out of our cities and towns. In many cases people will not be able to afford to live in the places they grew up in.

What, you don't say! It's been like that for years, if you want to pay your own way you just find somewhere you can afford and get on with it. Only the entitled insist on being housed in the places they grew up in..

Re OP, my sympathies are with you, thankless task.

Old diesel

4ensic15 wrote: »

bingbong500 wrote: »

I am? In what way? I'm not OP's tenant! Not that I agree with the premise that the tenant is either dishonourable or a thief, but still, the point stands.

Still didn't answer the question I note.

What question?

I think he wants to know what you would do if your choice was homelessness or overstaying.

bingbong500

4ensic15 wrote: »

What question?

The one I asked. What would you personally do if you are evicted from your rented home and you cannot find anywhere else to rent? You have no family who can put you up. What do you personally do?

It's easy to condemn others who are having a tough time.

4ensic15

bingbong500 wrote: »

The one I asked. What would you personally do if you are evicted from your rented home and you cannot find anywhere else to rent? You have no family who can put you up. What do you personally do?

It's easy to condemn others who are having a tough time.

Go to the relevant authorities. I wouldn't steal somebodys property from themj.

bingbong500

4ensic15 wrote: »

Go to the relevant authorities. I wouldn't steal somebodys property from themj.

And if the "relevant authorities" tell you they cannot help you, or advise you to over hold on the property, what do you do then?

I'm truly interested.

4ensic15

bingbong500 wrote: »

And if the "relevant authorities" tell you they cannot help you, or advise you to over hold on the property, what do you do then?

I'm truly interested.

The authorities are there to help. There are hostels and various charities. Whatever happened I wouldn't steal.

bingbong500

4ensic15 wrote: »

The authorities are there to help. There are hostels and various charities. Whatever happened I wouldn't steal.

In an ideal world they are. But they don't always. You'd move to as hostel, just like that? What if you had 3 kids in the near by school? Would you just say sure, a hostel would be fab for me and the kids, 35 miles away from their school, and 20 miles from my work in the opposite direction.They don't need to go to school, they can just stay here in our one bedroom along with all our worldly belongings, all day every day.

Could you maybe find out what you are talking about before judging people in difficult situations so harshly? You might have heard of a little thing called a housing crisis and record levels of homelessness....?

bingbong500

BarryD2 wrote: »

What, you don't say! It's been like that for years, if you want to pay your own way you just find somewhere you can afford and get on with it. Only the entitled insist on being housed in the places they grew up in..

Re OP, my sympathies are with you, thankless task.

Do you understand that there are people who are already nowhere near where they grow up, who had somewhere they could afford, but who cannot find anywhere else once they get evicted?
What do you do when there is nowhere you can afford? You have a job, kids in school, you can't just up and away to a small house in Leitrim which is in your budget, because then you have no job.

You need to understand that there are good people doing everything right who are still becoming homeless because they get evicted. The system is ****ed, stop blaming the victims of it.

4ensic15

bingbong500 wrote: »

In an ideal world they are. But they don't always. You'd move to as hostel, just like that? What if you had 3 kids in the near by school? Would you just say sure, a hostel would be fab for me and the kids, 35 miles away from their school, and 20 miles from my work in the opposite direction.They don't need to go to school, they can just stay here in our one bedroom along with all our worldly belongings, all day every day.

Could you maybe find out what you are talking about before judging people in difficult situations so harshly? You might have heard of a little thing called a housing crisis and record levels of homelessness....?

Housing crisis my ass. It doesn't justify stealing. It is precisely because of overholding and non payment of rent that there is a housing crisis. people who might rent out a property are leaving the property empty,because of people like you who think that some random stranger should house you and your progeny at his own expense.

bingbong500

4ensic15 wrote: »

Housing crisis my ass. It doesn't justify stealing. It is precisely because of overholding and non payment of rent that there is a housing crisis. people who might rent out a property are leaving the property empty,because of people like you who think that some random stranger should house you and your progeny at his own expense.

It's the people who can't afford homes and become homeless that caused the housing crisis?

Lol. If you say so mate. Must be nice on your planet.