Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Professor Moriarty

Okay. I'm done being the Devil's advocate for removing the backstop.

Russman

lawred2 wrote: »

Exactly. It won't be seen as Ireland making brotherly concessions to the UK.. it'll be seen as another chest thumping victory over little ol Paddy.. Ireland folding under the 'they need us more than we need them' Brexiteer reality.

There is no upside for Ireland in such a move. Diplomatic relations with other EU members would be in tatters.. individuals and countries that have staked a lot personally and professionally in supporting the Irish backstop would find it very hard to reconcile any Irish solo run that threw the last three years back in their faces..

And all for what? Emboldening the likes of Mark Francois... No thanks

Absolutely agree with this. A GE in the UK where, in all likelihood the DUP won't hold the balance of power, solves all this. Even if the Brexit Party were in power they'd get rid of the north in a heartbeat to deliver Brexit.

All this because Cameron gambled and then May doubled down with her snap GE. Madness.

J Mysterio

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I'm as real as you can get. Yourself?

So if we have a chance to prevent a catastrophic crash out we should do nothing because DUP are mental and prop up the Tories? Or should we be pragmatic and appear magnanimous while possibly preventing the loss of 50,000 jobs, a 6 billion hole in public finances and instability in the North?

I dont think kicking the can down the road for 10 years is being pragmatic. I also wouldn't view that as 'magnanimous', but foolhardy.

I also dont think that the jobs in the North are - or would be - protected by a 10 year backstop. Remember, business wants certainty. Its precisely because of the risk to NI that we have insisted on the backstop anyway.

Whatever happens, their economy will still be a basket case, with all the public jobs, and will still need subvention. More uncertainty is less helpful, not more. NI needs stability, not can kicking.

Professor Moriarty

J Mysterio wrote: »

I dont think kicking the can down the road for 10 years is being pragmatic. I also wouldn't view that as 'magnanimous', but foolhardy.

I also dont think that the jobs in the North are - or would be - protected by a 10 year backstop. Remember, business wants certainty. Its precisely because of the risk to NI that we have insisted on the backstop anyway.

Whatever happens, their economy will still be a basket case, with all the public jobs, and will still need subvention. More uncertainty is less helpful, not more. NI needs stability, not can kicking.

Sorry, one last point that I should have made clear. The 50,000 job losses are in Ireland (ESRI suggests possibly 80,000). 40,000 is the estimate for NI.

kunst nugget

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Okay. I'm done being the Devil's advocate for removing the backstop.

Can't see the problem with playing devil's advocate in regards to the backstop. Reading the different replies and thinking about it a bit more helps to sharpen the mind in terms of its importance.

Professor Moriarty

kunst nugget wrote: »

Can't see the problem with playing devil's advocate in regards to the backstop. Reading the different replies and thinking about it a bit more helps to sharpen the mind in terms of its importance.

Indeed it certainly does inform - but it's tiring.

sink

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

To be frank, climate change will change everything. British and EU politics included. Brexit will be relatively unimportant in ten years time. But either way, IMO, they will end up with a soft Brexit that includes FoM and the CU. It's what the majority would settle for. Current bluff and bluster is about being elected PM by Tory party members. Also, if Britain were to dump the GFA unilaterally then we only have to look at history to understand that conflict in the North isn't confined to the North.

You seem to betting a lot on not much. You're voluntarily placing your head on the guillotine on the assumption that they won't drop it when you give them the rope in 10 years. You believe they won't drop because they either wont care enough to let go, or will have bigger problems to think about. Remember all they have to do is let go (i.e. nothing) for it to fall on our heads and they can walk away with their trade deal. We have to rely on them actively pursuing a replacement to the back stop when they have shown little interest to date.

jm08

Dytalus wrote: »

There's only so much the EU can do to fast-track Scottish membership though. Brexit, combined with independence, is going to do a number on Scotland's economy and make it very difficult to fulfill the criteria for EU membership.

On this point - Scotland is already an EU member so are well up to speed on EU membership standards, criteria etc.



I also think that Scotland's vast fishing grounds and natural resources will make a lot of countries very happy to welcome them back into the fold, though I think they may prefer to join Norway's club to protect these resources.

First Up

The Irish government has made the strategic decision that our future is unequivocally, unamiguously and unwaveringly as part of the EU.

Everything else follows from that; we advance our interests within the EU institutions and the other 26 members through negotiation and diplomacy, not with tantrums or threats and we have shown that we have the skills and self-confidence to make that work.

We have made that the cornerstone of our economic and political strategy and the world knows it.

It would be our policy anyway but the evident risks of depending on a chaotic, UK for anything makes it easier.

Sam Russell

The current UK Gov has a majority of, what, 3 of which the DUP is 10. There are at least 30 Tory MPs who are threatening 'bring BoJo down' if he tries to prorogue parliament, and, presumably, if he tries to go foe a No Deal exit.

There is also significant cries against BoJo for throwing the ambassador under the bus, including TM who has to recommend him the Her Maj to be the next PM.

I think we should keep planning and keep mum about the border. If it is needed, we will implement it, but only if it is needed, and we will have enough time to do so. I think Phil Hogan said the EU are prepared to back Ireland if it goes No Deal - which I take to be financial support. A No Deal is a declaration of trde war.

Remember, it is not Dover till the fat lady screams.

KildareP

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Perhaps. Or the lie that the backstop is the issue is exposed and the Tories go into meltdown because they can't agree on what happens next? Maybe Labour finally dump Corbyn and gets a leader who can unite the pro Europe voters?

A Tory meltdown will have The Brexit Party lined up and ready to take their seats.

(Well, I assume, perhaps it's saying something that the UK public is happy to send Farage & Co to the EU but not so willing to send them into Westminster)

I don't think a Tory meltdown will make the UK see sense and put in a non-Leave government.

I think the most difficult thing about all of this is trying to make sense out of something where, maybe, just maybe, there just isn't actually any sense to be made of it?

BonnieSituation

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Indeed. But only Ireland has a land border with Britain.

It has a land border with the United Kingdom. And that distinction is very important.

KildareP

Sam Russell wrote: »

The current UK Gov has a majority of, what, 3 of which the DUP is 10. There are at least 30 Tory MPs who are threatening 'bring BoJo down' if he tries to prorogue parliament, and, presumably, if he tries to go foe a No Deal exit.

There is also significant cries against BoJo for throwing the ambassador under the bus, including TM who has to recommend him the Her Maj to be the next PM.

I think we should keep planning and keep mum about the border. If it is needed, we will implement it, but only if it is needed, and we will have enough time to do so. I think Phil Hogan said the EU are prepared to back Ireland if it goes No Deal - which I take to be financial support. A No Deal is a declaration of trde war.

Remember, it is not Dover till the fat lady screams.

100%

Add to that the DUP have now had their bluff called on UK regulatory alignment and direct rule. If they object to the provisional decisions made in Westminster re: SSM and abortion, then they lose all and any authority to object to an NI-only backstop.

Last week a tribunal declared the ERG must publish all of their "findings" which were drawn up using taxpayers money.

In effect, all these volatile entities who claimed to hold all the cards are now being called to show that they do, in fact, have said cards.

Let's see their cards exposed before we start voluntarily giving up our own.

Enzokk

The Telegraph has a story that the talks with the USA is not going as well as the UK have hoped.

Leaked documents expose lack of progess in US-UK trade talks

Britain has failed to make meaningful progress towards a free trade deal with the United States amid “chronic” staffing shortages and communication breakdowns in Whitehall, according to a cache of documents seen by The Telegraph.

Details of meetings spanning two years show how overstretched departments have been working “at cross purposes” as transatlantic talks have repeatedly stumbled over politically sensitive topics such as rules on health, farming and the finance industry.

The article basically says that the UK is not ready for any levels of trade talks, never mind with the US. The US has started sending junior people to talks with the UK. The silver lining is that Liam Fox has had a meeting with Ivanka Trump so that must be good in discussing the trade deal for the future.

The last paragraph is interesting,

Documents show that throughout trade discussions, American officials have sought to draw Britain out of the EU’s sphere of influence. British negotiators said Washington had repeatedly “painted the EU Commission as the bad guys” as they sought to influence the post-Brexit legal system. American officials said “it was easier to change a regulation before it is finalised”.

As a lot of people have said, especially after the debate on Monday, Johnson seems like he will just be a lapdog for the US and this is actually what they are looking for. The UK could be in a lot of trouble in the next decade if they don't shake themselves out of this rut they are in right now. It could be worse I suppose, they could elect PM Farage later this year.

Enzokk

Not sure if anyone has seen the reaction to the Panorama story from last night but it seems like it could get worse for Labour, not better. Even before the program aired Labour sent out a memo to some of their sympathisers in the media and social media (I think) to try and get their message out ahead of the program.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1149002876485865475

You had the following articles appear yesterday as well from Owen Jones,

Where is the outrage about the Tory party’s Islamophobia?

He is certain that he did not receive the instruction from Labour to try and promote their message, but what a coincidence on the day the program on Labour antisemitism appeared he wrote a column on what they want sent out.

As a follow-up it seems like more than 30 whistleblowers will be testifying at the EHRC investigation into antisemitism in Labour. This is not good for Corbyn or the leadership office.

https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1149320720268320768

Labour antisemitism: 30 whistleblowers to give evidence to EHRC

More than 30 whistleblowers including current Labour members of staff will submit evidence to the equalities watchdog about antisemitism in the party, the Guardian understands.

The revelation comes after eight former members of staff went public alleging consistent interference in the disputes process by senior Labour aides in a BBC Panorama programme.

Labour has complained about the programme to the highest level of the BBC, claiming staff were disaffected and motivated by political opposition to Jeremy Corbyn.

The Jewish Labour Movement revealed on Thursday it had detailed witness statements from 30 former and current Labour members of staff that it was planning to submit to the Equalities and Human Rights Commission, which is investigating Labour’s handling of antisemitism in the party.

That is more than just a conspiracy in the civil service to try and undermine Corbyn, if it is true. We will have to wait for the investigation but the state of politics in the UK is really worrying. You will either have PM Johnson, or PM Corbyn or you could have PM Farage. Is this really the best they can do? No wonder Brexit is a mess.

Professor Moriarty

Enzokk wrote: »

Not sure if anyone has seen the reaction to the Panorama story from last night but it seems like it could get worse for Labour, not better. Even before the program aired Labour sent out a memo to some of their sympathisers in the media and social media (I think) to try and get their message out ahead of the program.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1149002876485865475

You had the following articles appear yesterday as well from Owen Jones,

Where is the outrage about the Tory party’s Islamophobia?

He is certain that he did not receive the instruction from Labour to try and promote their message, but what a coincidence on the day the program on Labour antisemitism appeared he wrote a column on what they want sent out.

As a follow-up it seems like more than 30 whistleblowers will be testifying at the EHRC investigation into antisemitism in Labour. This is not good for Corbyn or the leadership office.

https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1149320720268320768

Labour antisemitism: 30 whistleblowers to give evidence to EHRC



That is more than just a conspiracy in the civil service to try and undermine Corbyn, if it is true. We will have to wait for the investigation but the state of politics in the UK is really worrying. You will either have PM Johnson, or PM Corbyn or you could have PM Farage. Is this really the best they can do? No wonder Brexit is a mess.

No chance that some of the more centrist Labour MPs are behind this attempt to smear Corbyn? Not that I personally would have a problem with that. It's in Ireland's interest that Labour is led by a Starmer or Thornberry who at least have some charisma and who will fight from a pro EU position.

Enzokk

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

No chance that some of the more centrist Labour MPs are behind this attempt to smear Corbyn? Not that I personally would have a problem with that. It's in Ireland's interest that Labour is led by a Starmer or Thornberry who at least have some charisma and who will fight from a pro EU position.

It could be, but the most likely answer is he is an anti-Semite and his office is just following his lead. The amount of likes he has accidentally had on social media for antisemitic posts and his writing a foreword for a book that has antisemitic tropes in it cannot just be explained away by a conspiracy. It is the most simple explanation.

Jewish leaders demand explanation over Corbyn book foreword

ewish leaders have written to Jeremy Corbyn to express “grave concern” and demand an explanation after it emerged he wrote a glowing foreword for a century-old political tract that includes antisemitic tropes.

The book, Imperialism: A Study, written by John Atkinson Hobson in 1902, claimed European finance was controlled by “men of a single and peculiar race”. Corbyn described the book as “brilliant” and “very controversial”, the Times first reported.

He wrote the foreword when the book was reissued in 2011, four years before becoming Labour leader.

Hobson describes the financial system as controlled by people “united by the strongest bonds of organisation, always in closest and quickest touch with one another, situated in the very heart of the business capital of every state, controlled, so far as Europe is concerned, by men of a single and peculiar race, who have behind them many centuries of financial experience, they are in a unique position to control the policy of nations”.

Here is a bizarre clip of him leaving his house this morning. Some great interference run by the lady talking very loudly to create confusion.

https://twitter.com/DanielHewittITV/status/1149274788583608320

MrMusician18

Enzokk wrote: »

Not sure if anyone has seen the reaction to the Panorama story from last night but it seems like it could get worse for Labour, not better. Even before the program aired Labour sent out a memo to some of their sympathisers in the media and social media (I think) to try and get their message out ahead of the program.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1149002876485865475

You had the following articles appear yesterday as well from Owen Jones,

Where is the outrage about the Tory party’s Islamophobia?

He is certain that he did not receive the instruction from Labour to try and promote their message, but what a coincidence on the day the program on Labour antisemitism appeared he wrote a column on what they want sent out.

As a follow-up it seems like more than 30 whistleblowers will be testifying at the EHRC investigation into antisemitism in Labour. This is not good for Corbyn or the leadership office.

https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1149320720268320768

Labour antisemitism: 30 whistleblowers to give evidence to EHRC



That is more than just a conspiracy in the civil service to try and undermine Corbyn, if it is true. We will have to wait for the investigation but the state of politics in the UK is really worrying. You will either have PM Johnson, or PM Corbyn or you could have PM Farage. Is this really the best they can do? No wonder Brexit is a mess.

The problem I have with this anti sematism stuff is that if the allegations are true, it's a deep rooted problem that's been in labour for years, if not decades.

It just seems all too convenient that when the centerists are out of favour that all this seems to have been "discovered".

If/when Starmer or similar get the leadership, all this will melt away. Not because it's been dealt with but because it's being used as a means to crowbar Corbyn from the leadership.

Professor Moriarty

Enzokk wrote: »

It could be, but the most likely answer is he is an anti-Semite and his office is just following his lead. The amount of likes he has accidentally had on social media for antisemitic posts and his writing a foreword for a book that has antisemitic tropes in it cannot just be explained away by a conspiracy. It is the most simple explanation.

Jewish leaders demand explanation over Corbyn book foreword




Here is a bizarre clip of him leaving his house this morning. Some great interference run by the lady talking very loudly to create confusion.

https://twitter.com/DanielHewittITV/status/1149274788583608320

That's pathetic. He'd have more credibility if he came out of the house whistling with his fingers in his ears.

Professor Moriarty

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The problem I have with this anti sematism stuff is that if the allegations are true, it's a deep rooted problem that's been in labour for years, if not decades.

It just seems all too convenient that when the centerists are out of favour that all this seems to have been "discovered".

If/when Starmer or similar get the leadership, all this will melt away. Not because it's been dealt with but because it's being used as a means to crowbar Corbyn from the leadership.

Probably. But if it ultimately stops a crash out then it's all good.

volchitsa

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The problem I have with this anti sematism stuff is that if the allegations are true, it's a deep rooted problem that's been in labour for years, if not decades.

It just seems all too convenient that when the centerists are out of favour that all this seems to have been "discovered".

If/when Starmer or similar get the leadership, all this will melt away. Not because it's been dealt with but because it's being used as a means to crowbar Corbyn from the leadership.

I wonder if it's even worse than that, if it could in fact be a distraction by the media etc away from the disaster that is the Tory party. However bad they are, this is what you'd get if you vote Labour, kind of thing?

Zubeneschamali

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

But the real politik is that our leverage is pushing pushing towards a crash out which will seriously damage Ireland.

But the crashout in October is not the end, it is just the start of negotiations on a future FTA. Negotiations at which we will insist on a backstop, and we have an absolute veto.

So the crashout brings a hard border, but it cannot stand for long as the Brits need a trade deal.

Agreeing a hard border or a time limited backstop means the Brits get a FTA and have no motivation to get rid of the border, ever.

volchitsa

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Agreeing a hard border or a time limited backstop means the Brits get a FTA and have no motivation to get rid of the border, ever.

Which is of course exactly what the British are hoping to achieve: "it may be bad for us but it'll wreck the Irish economy first".

Seems to me that if we need to EU to carry out a financial equivalent of the Berlin air drops in order to stand up to the bully, then that's what's needed.

We can't sensibly do anything else but refuse to be bullied into doing what the British want. But I don't imagine that will be announced publicly by Ireland until it's actually required.

Enzokk

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The problem I have with this anti sematism stuff is that if the allegations are true, it's a deep rooted problem that's been in labour for years, if not decades.

It just seems all too convenient that when the centerists are out of favour that all this seems to have been "discovered".

If/when Starmer or similar get the leadership, all this will melt away. Not because it's been dealt with but because it's being used as a means to crowbar Corbyn from the leadership.

Well you need to look at what has changed in that time. I assume there was problems with antisemitism in the party before, but who was leader and what was his reaction to it. I am by no means a Corbyn hater and would have liked to see what he could do, but his and his office reaction to this has been appalling and his actions as linked in the previous post doesn't make me think he is just someone caught up in a storm around him. I think the reaction from the party is very much along the lines of their leader, unfortunately.

So I believe the problem has always been there to a degree but it is the reaction from the Leadership Office that has made it an easy target. That is not anyone fault but the person in charge. This has then allowed those who share this view to become emboldened, much like racists in the US has become more vocal since the election of Trump.

volchitsa wrote: »

I wonder if it's even worse than that, if it could in fact be a distraction by the media etc away from the disaster that is the Tory party. However bad they are, this is what you'd get if you vote Labour, kind of thing?

The media did not write the foreword or like the mural so I don't see how this is something they made. Corbyn made it easy for them.

volchitsa

Enzokk wrote: »

Well you need to look at what has changed in that time. I assume there was problems with antisemitism in the party before, but who was leader and what was his reaction to it. I am by no means a Corbyn hater and would have liked to see what he could do, but his and his office reaction to this has been appalling and his actions as linked in the previous post doesn't make me think he is just someone caught up in a storm around him. I think the reaction from the party is very much along the lines of their leader, unfortunately.

So I believe the problem has always been there to a degree but it is the reaction from the Leadership Office that has made it an easy target. That is not anyone fault but the person in charge. This has then allowed those who share this view to become emboldened, much like racists in the US has become more vocal since the election of Trump.





The media did not write the foreword or like the mural so I don't see how this is something they made. Corbyn made it easy for them.

Oh sure, I'm not saying it's invented, but there's plenty of anti semitism, and Islamophobia, in the Tory party too, and nobody seems exercised about that.

reslfj

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Sorry, one last point that I should have made clear. The 50,000 job losses are in Ireland (ESRI suggests possibly 80,000). 40,000 is the estimate for NI.

These figures are twice as high/bad for NI when seen in relation to the population sizes in the two part or the island.

• Most of the estimates of Brexit consequences for more countries, I have seen, do not take the much better situation for EU27 members future trading fully into account.
• EU27 member states continue to have a 446 million mill fully functioning internal market (SM) plus 14 million in EEA+Switzerland in SM except for farm/fish.
• EU27 EU27 member states continue to have about 60 of the worlds best FTA's, plus new ones being activated as I write (e.g. Canada, Japan, Korea, Singapore) Mercosur/Mercosul) and AU,NZ actively being negotiated now.
• EU27 member states continue to have the full world class negotiating power in trade dealing and the protection of the EU in trade disputes.
• EU27 member states continue to have had 3 1/2 years to seek no customers and new suppliers to replace lost sale to a post Brexit UK. Most products now coming from the UK can be second sources tariff free from the EU/EEA.
• EU27 member states continue to have 'Open Sky' for EU27 owned airlines, No quantitative restriction in permits long haul lorries driving in the EU27/EEA, all four freedoms - goods, services, people and capital - and a lot more

• The UK has nothing of substance now in terms of trading agreements.
• Trading 'gravity preferences' prevent the US from replacing the UK's market in Europe (MEGA does now, but in case MAGA in time will cease to apply)
• The UK export will face significant NTBs and many non zero WTO MFN tariffs that the UK exporters will have to pay themselves to stay competitive.
• The UK fish/farm product will pay very high WTO MFN tariffs into the EU27 market and will likely face logistical problems with delays and product freshness.
• The UK needs to build costly parallel regulatory structures in area upop area plus hugely extend its border custom processing capability.
• The UK's producers will have to follow EU's SM rules for all their export, as this is how EU always does business.

Specifically for Ireland it has - as a Brexit front line state - the full support of the EU logistically and financially as well as in creating new/replacement markets within the EU27.

Lars

Zubeneschamali

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That's pathetic. He'd have more credibility if he came out of the house whistling with his fingers in his ears.

It is indeed pathetic.


Corbyn has made it very clear for years and years on end that he will not answer questions on his doorstep under any circumstances. That is his home and that is his last word on the subject.



The only point in trying to doorstep him in this way is to gather a collection of clips of him not answering questions for propaganda purposes.

BluePlanet

Coveney proposing checks away from the border is already being played as a win for Brexit.

https://brexitcentral.com/the-irish-government-has-revealed-the-bad-faith-with-which-the-eu-has-treated-the-border-issue/

The declaration by the Irish Government yesterday that, in the event of a no-deal Brexit, it would not implement a “hard border” and that customs checks would, as has been argued by the UK Government for years, take place away from the border. It has at last admitted that it can live without such a border. This admission has revealed that the EU never actually needed the backstop. In that revelation it has proven itself to have always been in bad faith in its negotiations with the UK.

It's helping them make the case that the border issue is just a ruse.
Basically Coveney is now emboldening the No Deal Brexiteers

Christy42

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

But we could prevent a No Deal Brexit by saying that we are happy for there to be a time limited backstop. No reason why Brexiteers shouldn't support the existing WA then...

Certainly. And we would have just agreed to set up and maintain a hard border in ten years time for the foreseeable future.

This way we get the border sorted now. No deal is our leverage against the UK to uphold the gfa. If they can just leave the wa and keep the trade part after 10 years then that is what they will do. And we will not have any leverage to protect the border. Not like the UK will care about the north.

Professor Moriarty

reslfj wrote: »

These figures are twice as high/bad for NI when seen in relation to the population sizes in the two part or the island.

• Most of the estimates of Brexit consequences for more countries, I have seen, do not take the much better situation for EU27 members future trading fully into account.
• EU27 member states continue to have a 446 million mill fully functioning internal market (SM) plus 14 million in EEA+Switzerland in SM except for farm/fish.
• EU27 EU27 member states continue to have about 60 of the worlds best FTA's, plus new ones being activated as I write (e.g. Canada, Japan, Korea, Singapore) Mercosur/Mercosul) and AU,NZ actively being negotiated now.
• EU27 member states continue to have the full world class negotiating power in trade dealing and the protection of the EU in trade disputes.
• EU27 member states continue to have had 3 1/2 years to seek no customers and new suppliers to replace lost sale to a post Brexit UK. Most products now coming from the UK can be second sources tariff free from the EU/EEA.
• EU27 member states continue to have 'Open Sky' for EU27 owned airlines, No quantitative restriction in permits long haul lorries driving in the EU27/EEA, all four freedoms - goods, services, people and capital - and a lot more

• The UK has nothing of substance now in terms of trading agreements.
• Trading 'gravity preferences' prevent the US from replacing the UK's market in Europe (MEGA does now, but in case MAGA in time will cease to apply)
• The UK export will face significant NTBs and many non zero WTO MFN tariffs that the UK exporters will have to pay themselves to stay competitive.
• The UK fish/farm product will pay very high WTO MFN tariffs into the EU27 market and will likely face logistical problems with delays and product freshness.
• The UK needs to build costly parallel regulatory structures in area upop area plus hugely extend its border custom processing capability.
• The UK's producers will have to follow EU's SM rules for all their export, as this is how EU always does business.

Specifically for Ireland it has - as a Brexit front line state - the full support of the EU logistically and financially as well as in creating new/replacement markets within the EU27.

Lars

Excellent post.