Vegan and vegetarian meals kill more animals than you think

ILoveYourVibes

I just found this out this is really interesting.


I am a vegetarian myself.

But read this

Published figures suggest that, in Australia, producing wheat, rice and other grains results in:

at least 25 times more sentient animals being killed per kilogram of usable protein
more environmental damage, and
a great deal more animal cruelty than does farming red meat.

How is this possible?

Agriculture to produce wheat, rice and pulses requires clear-felling native vegetation. That act alone results in the deaths of thousands of Australian animals and plants per hectare. Since Europeans arrived on this continent we have lost more than half of Australia’s unique native vegetation, mostly to increase production of monocultures of introduced species for human consumption.


Rabbits mice insects etc all would eat vegetables rains etc are all killed in thousands to produce rice wheat potatoes and vegetables.

If you have ever lived near a farm or on one. You know.

Grazing on the other hand occurs on primarily native ecosystems. These have and maintain far higher levels of native biodiversity than croplands. The rangelands can’t be used to produce crops, so production of meat here doesn’t limit production of plant foods. And you don't need to protect grazing land from mice and rabbits etc by killing them.

Its the same with fruits. Even organic fruits. Lots of animals who would feed on them have to be killed to ensure they grow.

If you have a veggie stir fry versus one steak on a place ..the veggie stir fry has actually killed more animals than the steak.


Still not eating meat though i just don't like it.

Thelonious Monk

God not this again.

ILoveYourVibes

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

God not this again.

OOOPS

AngryHippie

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Published figures suggest that, in Australia, producing wheat, rice and other grains results in:

I'll read them
Post a link

marklazarcovic

Nobody gives a fcuk

AngryHippie

Theres always 1

ILoveYourVibes

AngryHippie wrote: »

I'll read them
Post a link

Austrailia

https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/science-technology/vegetarian-dilemma


Others.

http://www.anthropocenemagazine.org/2018/07/how-many-animals-killed-in-agriculture/

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/mice-the-biggest-losers-w-vegetarianism/4660498

I don't mean it as an attack on Vegans etc. It's just interesting to me.

ILoveYourVibes

AngryHippie wrote: »

Theres always 1

Hi Angry Hippie. I take it you choose to be vegetarian? I am sorry you feel personally attacked it was not my intention.

I am veggie myself.

ILoveYourVibes

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Nobody gives a fcuk

I understand your sentiment. Today everything is so political its exhausting.

But I would wager vegans themselves care.

As a veggie i care.

fergiesfolly

You start to think, the only way for us to save the planet, is to get the hell off of it.

evolving_doors

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Nobody gives a fcuk

You obviously do :pac:

ILoveYourVibes

fergiesfolly wrote: »

You start to think, the only way for us to save the planet, is to get the hell off of it.

I think its more about balance. Humans tend to come up with extreme solutions.

Noted though. We do have to live!

Hoboo

Why is there so much anger?

ILoveYourVibes

Hoboo wrote: »

Why is there so much anger?

Ooops. I am not angry :P whether you are veggie or not...no reason to be angry.

Apologies if it came off this way. There is too much of that in the world.

Hoboo

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Ooops. I am not angry :P whether you are veggie or not...no reason to be angry.

Apologies if it came off this way. There is too much of that in the world.

Not anger from you, directed AT you. Found the post quite interesting, yet some of the responses, and first thing in the morning. It's Friday, and a fine looking one at that.

ILoveYourVibes

Hoboo wrote: »

Not anger from you, directed AT you. Found the post quite interesting, yet some of the responses, and first thing in the morning. It's Friday, and a fine looking one at that.

Oh thank you I am glad you found it interesting. It was something i was reading.

Ah i understand what you mean.

Very true gorgeous Friday ! :P

I think it's the quick snap response based on a twitter environment etc.

Also perhaps they are not angry. When you are short etc it can come across as anger.

Thank you for being so kind though. I appreciate it.

KungPao

We are a cancer on the planet. The sooner antibiotics stop working and we die off, the better.

ILoveYourVibes

KungPao wrote: »

We are a cancer on the planet. The sooner antibiotics stop working and we die off, the better.

I feel guilty now!

conor2469

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If you have a veggie stir fry versus one steak on a place ..the veggie stir fry has actually killed more animals than the steak.

An interesting concept, not true though. What percentage of crops grown are directly consumed by humans?

There are lots of different articles with percentages, I'm going to grab the first one I found in google:

https://www.vox.com/2014/8/21/6053187/cropland-map-food-fuel-animal-feed

Article starts off with:

Just 55 percent of the world's crop calories are actually eaten directly by people. Another 36 percent is used for animal feed.

So according to this article, if you eat animal products then you are doing 36% more harm than people who abstain from them.

Don't feel guilty OP.

OEP

conor2469 wrote: »

An interesting concept, not true though. What percentage of crops grown are directly consumed by humans?

There are lots of different articles with percentages, I'm going to grab the first one I found in google:

https://www.vox.com/2014/8/21/6053187/cropland-map-food-fuel-animal-feed

Article starts off with:

Just 55 percent of the world's crop calories are actually eaten directly by people. Another 36 percent is used for animal feed.

So according to this article, if you eat animal products then you are doing 36% more harm than people who abstain from them.

Don't feel guilty OP.

So it could be argued that eating Irish meat would kill less wild/native animals than being a vegetarian would, given that Irish meat is primarily fed on grass rather than a grain based diet like lots of other countries.

Something that should be looked at is alternative feeds for animals, such as insects. Insects thrive in confined environments, can feed off waste organic matter and have a high dry protein content. If we were to use this as animal feed, or at least supplement animal feed with this, then we could reduce the reliance on grains and other crops to be used as animal feed - thus reducing the environmental impact.

conor2469

OEP wrote: »

So it could be argued that eating Irish meat would kill less wild/native animals than being a vegetarian would, given that Irish meat is primarily fed on grass rather than a grain based diet like lots of other countries.

No because in winter we do have to put our livestock in sheds and feed them silage and cattle feeds which are plants that had to be harvested

Melanie McGrane

Can't believe this! Here was me thinking I was doing 'clean eating' and saving animals by being vegetarian. What a frost!

OEP

conor2469 wrote: »

No because in winter we do have to put our livestock in sheds and feed them silage and cattle feeds which are plants that had to be harvested

Yes, for approx 25% of the year. So that's 1/4 of the impact that feeding animals in say the US has, where it's pretty much grain all year round. Silage also has a much smaller impact than feeding grains.

conor2469

OEP wrote: »

Yes, for approx 25% of the year. So that's 1/4 of the impact that feeding animals in say the US has, where it's pretty much grain all year round. Silage also has a much smaller impact than feeding grains.

In Ireland, when cows are confined they are fed hay, silage and cattle feeds. So we need to harvest enough to feed this livestock for 25% of year, thats a lot, not as much as the US, but still a lot.

dodderangler

KungPao wrote: »

We are a cancer on the planet. The sooner antibiotics stop working and we die off, the better.

People like you really pïss me off. Always complaining about humans this and that and what are you doing to save this planet??
Would you ever cop onto yourself.

Fr_Dougal

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I feel guilty now!

802 posts in 24 days...that must be some sort of boards.ie record.

OEP

conor2469 wrote: »

In Ireland, when cows are confined they are fed hay, silage and cattle feeds. So we need to harvest enough to feed this livestock for 25% of year, thats a lot, not as much as the US, but still a lot.

Not that much really. My argument isn't that we're not feeding them, it's that feeding them for this portion of the year could be having less of an impact on native/wild animals than if we were to grow crops to feed everyone as a vegetarian.

The crux of your point was that feeding animals uses 36% of crops grown globally, but that ratio doesn't apply to the Irish system of animal production - which brings us back to my argument about eating Irish meat.

Of course I don't have numbers to back this up, but some knowledge of meat production in Ireland vs the rest of the world, and using your figures and the OP's, makes it a reasonable argument.

kneemos

conor2469 wrote: »

In Ireland, when cows are confined they are fed hay, silage and cattle feeds. So we need to harvest enough to feed this livestock for 25% of year, thats a lot, not as much as the US, but still a lot.

Silage and hay comes from the same grass they eat in the summer.
That's a neutral effect.

conor2469

OEP wrote: »

Not that much really. My argument isn't that we're not feeding them, it's that feeding them for this portion of the year could be having less of an impact on native/wild animals than if we were to grow crops to feed everyone as a vegetarian.

The crux of your point was that feeding animals uses 36% of crops grown globally, but that ratio doesn't apply to the Irish system of animal production - which brings us back to my argument about eating Irish meat.

Of course I don't have numbers to back this up, but some knowledge of meat production in Ireland vs the rest of the world, and using your figures and the OP's, makes it a reasonable argument.

Here are some rough figures I grabbed off google, these are rough estimates and I'm crap at maths but it gives some idea


Say a cow eats 11 kilos per day
they are slaughtered at 12-14 months.
They are in 25% of the year = 91 days

91x11 = 1001kg of feed over winter per head.
Each cow produces 195 kg of retail cuts (Google said so, feel free to correct)

So 1001kg of harvested plants eventually converts into 195 kg of retail cuts of meat
5kg of harvested plants made 1 kg of meat.

I still cant see how an Irish steak is less harmful to the environment and wildlife than the equivalent calories in plants is.

To put it in perspective (Yes more google figures, but use them as a rough estimate)
Say A human eats 2.25 kilo a day
2.25 x365 = 821 kg per year

kneemos wrote: »

Silage and hay comes from the same grass they eat in the summer.
That's a neutral effect.

Not necessarily, the grass is mown and made into bales, surely this would be regarded as harvesting? Similar to how grains are harvested.

ILoveYourVibes

conor2469 wrote: »

An interesting concept, not true though. What percentage of crops grown are directly consumed by humans?

There are lots of different articles with percentages, I'm going to grab the first one I found in google:

https://www.vox.com/2014/8/21/6053187/cropland-map-food-fuel-animal-feed

Article starts off with:

Just 55 percent of the world's crop calories are actually eaten directly by people. Another 36 percent is used for animal feed.

So according to this article, if you eat animal products then you are doing 36% more harm than people who abstain from them.

Don't feel guilty OP.

Awh thanks
Guilt is a wasted emotion. And its not healthy ..all the negativity waits for it.

Did anyone ever you guys guilt was a useless emotion when you were little? Like a priest or something?

If you have to do something you just do it with joy in your heart.

Guilt is a funny one. I have a captured wild rabbit that I have been feeding and tickling under the chin for some time now which I plan to off gut and eat probably this weekend or next. And some people I know tell me I should feel guilty about this somehow.

Yet they are off buying their vacuum packed Lamb Steaks from New Zealand.

I can not figure where the guilt is meant to come from here.