Third Irish forestry fund.

Harry Palmr

Shaun73 wrote: »

The situation today, 6 August 2019, is that:

• There were no distributions in July.

• The 12,400 shareholders, on whose behalf the directors accepted the offer of AXA Investment Managers, have been told nothing by way of explanation either through correspondence or updating of the IFS website.

Well they have because I got a letter informing me of the delay due to the number of out of date details.

antietam1

Did everybody go into it to make money?
I was very interested in the environment and reforestation at the time, as well as
any nest egg considerations.

gordongekko

antietam1 wrote: »

Did everybody go into it to make money?
I was very interested in the environment and reforestation at the time, as well as
any nest egg considerations.

Ha ha ha

ForFsSake

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Well they have because I got a letter informing me of the delay due to the number of out of date details.

They wrote to those in one fund and did not write to those in the other 20 to 25 funds that are in the same boat. So 95% plus of people received no notification that they were not sending cheques in July as stated in the only letter we did get. They have a reason for choosing that one fund to write to but I can't remember what it is.

To not update the website so we don't have to resort to forums to find out if anything has changed is p*** poor but I wouldn't expect anything more from these people.

Hatters

The letter I received on the 15th May stated that once the Independent Persons Report was completed the directors will declare the dividend.... I just rand them and the audit is now completed but there was nor will be (surprisingly enough) NO declaration! Cheques will be issued on the 16th August by an external source as they can’t cope with the volume at Veon...all shareholders will simultaneously find out in keeping with company law???!!

Harry Palmr

antietam1 wrote: »

Did everybody go into it to make money?
I was very interested in the environment and reforestation at the time, as well as
any nest egg considerations.

Money Managed commercial forestry is not environmentally sound bar some carbon sequestration - the forests themselves are monoculture, with almost no eco diversity under that dark canopy and the side effect of adding acid to the soil, watercourses.

Shaun73

I stand corrected in relation to direct communication with shareholders. I am invested in five of the eighteen funds, which I regard as a representative sample. I have five almost identical letters dated 15 May 2019, which are signed by Paul Brosnan, Chairman. I have received no further communication.

I will rephrase my comment. The change is in italics.

The situation today, 6 August 2019, is that:

• There were no distributions in July.

• The great majority of the12,400 shareholders, on whose behalf the directors accepted the offer of AXA Investment Managers, have been told nothing by way of explanation either through correspondence or updating of the IFS website.

Shaun73

The italics didn't work.

"The great majority of"

Shaun73

I have been overtaken by an event. The following notice has just appeared on the IFS website.

DUE TO THE SHEER VOLUME OF CHANGE OF CONTACT DETAILS WE HAVE RECEIVED FROM SHAREHOLDERS WE HAVE HAD TO EXTEND THE DATE OF CHEQUE ISSUANCE FROM THE END OF JULY AS INITIALLY PLANNED.

CHEQUES DISTRIBUTIONS WILL NOW BE ISSUED ON FRIDAY 16TH AUGUST AND A DIVIDEND WARRANT WILL ACCOMPANY THE CHEQUE.

ForFsSake

Shaun73 wrote: »

I have been overtaken by an event. The following notice has just appeared on the IFS website.

DUE TO THE SHEER VOLUME OF CHANGE OF CONTACT DETAILS WE HAVE RECEIVED FROM SHAREHOLDERS WE HAVE HAD TO EXTEND THE DATE OF CHEQUE ISSUANCE FROM THE END OF JULY AS INITIALLY PLANNED.

CHEQUES DISTRIBUTIONS WILL NOW BE ISSUED ON FRIDAY 16TH AUGUST AND A DIVIDEND WARRANT WILL ACCOMPANY THE CHEQUE.

Baring in mind they have had a month to update their website and only did it today its likely they either got bored of answering calls asking the same questions or they read this forum and decided to make the change!

At least it brings some certainty to cheques going out Friday week.

antietam1

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Money Managed commercial forestry is not environmentally sound bar some carbon sequestration - the forests themselves are monoculture, with almost no eco diversity under that dark canopy and the side effect of adding acid to the soil, watercourses.

Would agree with you there, I had thought of investing in native hardwoods.
Pine forests are nice for us and maybe pine martins but very dead otherwise.

IrForestryQ

On the 97 prospectus it states once the trees are harvested and the land cleared then the land will be sold. Not before I assumed.

So if the trees are not all cleared there may be grounds to notify the Ombudsman or PSRA, or we do not get what was promised ie 500 = 30,000 or near that per share.

If it is gonna be a windfall and we do receive near to that, its fine. As the prospectus points out the projections are "reasonable" so there should be no reason for us to think or receive substantially less.

ForFsSake

IrForestryQ wrote: »

On the 97 prospectus it states once the trees are harvested and the land cleared then the land will be sold. Not before I assumed.

So if the trees are not all cleared there may be grounds to notify the Ombudsman or PSRA, or we do not get what was promised ie 500 = 30,000 or near that per share.

If it is gonna be a windfall and we do receive near to that, its fine. As the prospectus points out the projections are "reasonable" so there should be no reason for us to think or receive substantially less.

I think the reason I am apprehensive about whats coming is the 10 year funds massively underperformed and investors didn't get much more than their money back. I don't believe the management ever gave a real reason why. So I struggle to believe these ones could go that well when the others, covering 13 years of the same time period, didn't.

I hope your right though!

Harry Palmr

I'd like to think the poor returns from the likes of the 10th Fund were down to timing - post fiscal crash and all that. The annual update letters were clear enough - warning us of the "difficult trading environment" in the run up.

ForFsSake

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I'd like to think the poor returns from the likes of the 10th Fund were down to timing - post fiscal crash and all that. The annual update letters were clear enough - warning us of the "difficult trading environment" in the run up.

Makes sense - am hoping the same!

pauljw11

What is the latest here? We received a letter saying that cheques would be issued at the end of July, but no sign of it. Has anybody received one?

paris24

They were delayed. They are being posted on Friday 16th Aug - so presumably received by Monday 19th?

Shaun73

The stated reason for the delay in issuing cheques is "the sheer volume of change of contact details". There is another and different delay.
An excerpt from the FAQ supplement that accompanied the letters dated 15 May 2019, which were signed by Paul Brosnan, Chairman:

"Q. When can I get the latest set of Financial Statements?

Once the audited financial statements have been completed by Deloitte at the end of June they will be made freely available to download at the Irish Forestry Funds website"

Today is 13 August 2019. These financial statements have not been uploaded to the IFS website.

IrForestryQ

Very worrying that the accounts have not been posted on the website.

dan1981

The accounts for 2018 were only published for the various funds across the month of March this year.

As they've said to me and others they're not going to reveal final dividends until cheques are issued. This may be why nothing for the working year to date have been put online yet.

I don't particularly buy the argument that people cannot be told at this point - what I can only suspect is that it keeps people in the dark.

Hatters

It’s very annoying, the cheques are most likely printed by now, what difference does it make by not disclosing the dividend at this stage? Not even a leak! All Veon staff must have signed a non disclosure agreement! I’d love to know what Paul Brosnan is going to pay himself....

IrForestryQ

Looks like they invested in infrastructure to build more roads to harvest in 2018 so the land is very accessible now.

We better get what was promised in the prospectus maturity end. Doesn't make sense to sell for anything less this early if the fund was being managed with the best interests of investors in mind. As they stated in the FY 2018 theres massive demand for timber now so theres value to be had in the land.

I don't get why they are leaving it to the last minute to disclose the deal, most likely cuz people may kick up a fuss.

antietam1

The meeja could come in for a bit of criticism with all that summer bonanza stuff.
Anyway hope for the best.

Count Hairyfoot

So today's supposed to be the day. Anybody feeling confident?

dan1981

Cautiously optimistic that there will be some kind of return, just not optimistic that the return will actually be anywhere near what the returns were pitched at 20 years ago.

I did notice on the VEON careers page they make reference to managing 30,000 acres of forest with an estimated value of €100 million. A third of that land has now been sold - but the 20-year (to date) funds sold would be the majority of the sales I would have thought across the bulk of the funds- so would assume perhaps the funds have been sold for 80m? Who can say...

If they sold the whole thing to AXA for €100m and the Indo article (which they are now linking to from their own website) says investors put in a total of €40m the average investor is probably going to see a return of about 5%.

But this is all assumptive speculation in the absence of any communication.

Count Hairyfoot

I'm clueless at how these this are calculated. What would 5% work out at - assuming 3rd fund bought for 500 in 1998?

Tow

£500 at 5% over 20 years = £1,326.65 = €1,684.50

Year Year Interest Total Interest Balance
1 £25.00 £25.00 £525.00
2 £26.25 £51.25 £551.25
3 £27.56 £78.81 £578.81
4 £28.94 £107.75 £607.75
5 £30.39 £138.14 £638.14
6 £31.91 £170.05 £670.05
7 £33.50 £203.55 £703.55
8 £35.18 £238.73 £738.73
9 £36.94 £275.66 £775.66
10 £38.78 £314.45 £814.45
11 £40.72 £355.17 £855.17
12 £42.76 £397.93 £897.93
13 £44.90 £442.82 £942.82
14 £47.14 £489.97 £989.97
15 £49.50 £539.46 £1,039.46
16 £51.97 £591.44 £1,091.44
17 £54.57 £646.01 £1,146.01
18 £57.30 £703.31 £1,203.31
19 £60.17 £763.48 £1,263.48
20 £63.17 £826.65 £1,326.65

Using: https://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php

dan1981

Count Hairyfoot wrote: »

I'm clueless at how these this are calculated. What would 5% work out at - assuming 3rd fund bought for 500 in 1998?

I've been using a compound interest calculator on a site called MoneyChimp.

£500 (€634.87) over 21 years at 5% would now be €1,768.72. If it was at the value Irish Forestry/Veon was promoting it at (14.4%) it would be worth €10,706.10 now - and would be worth €35,930.69 at maturity in the full 30 years. That's why it's the next 9/10 years which are the most important to the trees given this is where all the value actually is.

Count Hairyfoot

Damn I'm not as clueless as I thought - I got that figure and foolishly assumed I couldn't be correct. At that return I'd have been better off spending the initial 500 on scratch cards.

Harry Palmr

The weather is so bad I'm not sure if the postie is late or has in fact gone past my door!