"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

IrishAlice

Deleted User wrote: »

It drove Dany mad.

The ending was so bad that there was almost no point to any of it really.

Bran had no interest in ruling at all, became the king.
Jon and Bran were heavily involved in the white walker story, but Arya killed the NK... probably her first time seeing a White Walker.
Jaime was bad, then good, then bad again, then dead.
Tyrion just made lots of mistakes over and over again.
Arya’s whole story was a bit meh overall.
1 dragon killed Cersei forces.
The Unsullied and Dothraki just sail away with nothing to really fight for anymore.
Wildlings just head back home.
Everyone just sorta accepts Bran as King and life goes on.

The fan theories were more clever and complex than the actual writing in the end.

I feel it's a bit more nuanced than the above.

Bran had no interest in ruling and didn't seek power, which may make for a just ruler.

Arya trained with the faceless men to become a deadly assassin, Beric was kept alive by the Lord of Light so he could save Arya and she could fulfill her destiny.

Jaime didn't become bad again, his love of Cersei and their bond proved too strong for him to deny.

Tyrion made lots of mistakes but as hand of the king has been given an opportunity to right the wrongs.

The unsullied are finally free men, the dothraki will return to their own way of life.

From a fan point of view I thought Jon was short changed the most but he did always say he never wanted to sit on throne and living beyond the wall with the wildlings is probably a good ending for him.

I actually though Jon and Sansa would end up together and rule the North together. Assuming cousins is acceptable in the North.

NuMarvel

pah wrote: »

The fact that the options to choose from were

Loved it
It was fine
Disappointed
Hated it

Says a lot in itself.

Normal options would be

Amazing
Great
Good
Ok
Poor

Twitter only allows four choices in a poll, so you're a bit limited from the get go.

Drumpot

I enjoyed that.

Was a shame that they decided to finish it off so quickly but luckily for me I was able to enjoy what we got.

Its so ironic that Tyrion finding Jamie was the bit that got me the most when you think about the start of the show when I wouldnt of bet I would care much for these guys.

Thought Jons ending was very apt, he belonged with the Wildlings and he actually got exactly what he wanted. (once he realised he Dany had to be killed).

The death scene was handled brilliantly, nothing I would change on that, really enjoyed that. Didnt know what the Dragon was gonna do and since Jon is of fire I presumed he would be grand.

RickBlaine

Within less than two hours of screentime, Dany went from being one of the show's heroes to being killed as a villain. That is an insanely short timeframe for GoT.

Imagine how better it would have been if Dany's downfall was given as much time to gradually develop over many seasons as Theon or Jaime's redemptions.

Like much of this season, Dany's death felt very rushed. She was a core character since the first episode and her death should have had more impact, but it didn't. I think she needed to face the consequences of her actions, like Littlefinger last season. Jon stabbing her was like if Arya had suddenly cut Littlefinger's throat without any of the preceding dialog. It was just too sudden for such an important character.

A vast majority of this season's problems is due to this (and last) season's reduced runtime. It is crazy to think that this was requested by D+D and not mandated by HBO. Usually it is the network that is pulling the purse strings and forcing creators to amend their story accordingly. The only explanation is that they simply lost interest in the story, perhaps getting distracted by the shiny new Star Wars trilogy being dangled in front of them. For a show where duty is one of the primary themes, it is pretty bloody reckless and selfish of them to abandon their responsibilities like this. Even if they had lost interest, they could still remain as showrunners but hire other writers to finish the show.

It is a shame the Game of Thrones reputation has been tarnished.

meeeeh

IrishAlice wrote: »

I actually though Jon and Sansa would end up together and rule the North together. Assuming cousins is acceptable in the North.

Ewww. They were brought up as siblings...

Anyway Jon never wanted to rule and he doesn't have to now. The ending some want to see for him would be something he'd hate.

Am I the only one who finds it amusing that something like one couple survived in the whole series (Sam and Gilly). I guess dating is hard.

Utopia Parkway

Honestly thought they wrapped it up about as well as they could have. Impossible to keep everyone happy as everyone has a different interpretation on who should live or die and who should sit on the iron throne. Many people won't have wanted Bran to be King or for Jon to be sent back to the Night's Watch. So when it happens it's understandable that some fans are going to be pissed. My only complaint is they really should have made it a full season of 10 episodes with a few longer ones mixed in. The shortened season did them no favours and led to a feeling of everything being rushed to a conclusion. The show is always better when it's given time to breathe.

All a bit sad at the end with all the Stark's going their separate ways possibly to never see each other again. Some of them at least. Which followed the last little bit of classic Thrones humour with Tyrion, Ser Davos, Bronn and Sam, bickering around the table about brothels.

pah

leggo wrote: »

That isn’t a way people have read polls ever, but whatever gets you through your day quicker pah. :pac:

78% of people thought it was fine - at best.

From a poll that you linked to.


Anyway, I find Chris Stuckmann and I have similar taste and as always a genuine and honest review. No years of fan baggage here either as he only started watching the series this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u_zNDQIeHk

And then there's this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvBxxCdS98E

thomond2006

No return from Daario Naharis at all. Pity. I had hoped he would have infiltrated the Golden Company at the time.

Skylinehead

thomond2006 wrote: »

No return from Daario Naharis at all. Pity. I had hoped he would have infiltrated the Golden Company at the time.

They were pretty irrelephant in the end.

kowloon

Deleted User wrote: »

The Ironside Throne

That'll be the spinoff series.

J. Marston

If only they had done season 8 as build-up to and blow off to the battle with the Night King and season 9 as the battle for the throne.

Instead they wedged the lot into 6 episodes.

shrewdness

Just watched it, need some time to process. First impressions are that while it wasn't the best episode you could get, I thought they tied it all together pretty fine in the end. The big, shocking moments have already happened in this season, the finale was always going to be mostly about tieing together the loose ends.

Jon killing Dany didn't come as a great shock at all, I thought maybe it happened a bit quick, but then they needed the majority of the episode to finish up everyone's story. Bran becoming King felt a bit strange at first, but someone else's point of him not wanting to be King would make him a good ruler, makes sense on reflection. Sansa got what she wanted with the North becoming it's own kingdom and her the Queen. Arya went off exploring like she always wanted. It felt like Jon was dealt the harshest hand here, but once he got to Castle Black and seen Tormund and Ghost again, he seemed more at home again. This seems to be where he is most comfortable, and as Tormund says, the "real north" is in him. I wasn't sure what was going on the end there, was that him deserting the nights watch to go further north to live with the wildings, or is he just escorting them?

Sansa telling Edmure to sit down got the biggest laugh of the episode. Interesting to see Bronn and Tyrion back on good terms now the war has ended. From a cutthroat sellsword to Lord of Highgarden and Master of Coin, quite the journey for ol Bronn. Thought Peter Dinklage was excellent throughout, as he has been for the entire show. Quite funny in comparison how Sam says he wasn't mentioned in the Song of Ice and Fire.

While it certainly wasn't the strongest season, I wouldn't be criticising it nearly as strongly as many seem to be. I feel it will age better as a binge watch over a couple of sittings, without the huge expectations there were leading into the final season.

Sad Professor

It was a rather perfunctory final episode in many ways. Just did what it needed to do and not much else. And I'm fine with that. My greatest fear was that this episode would have last minute battles and god knows what else going on in it, but thankfully they didn't make that mistake. If the previous 5 episodes (and most of season 7) were climax, this was mostly denouement. While my preferred ending would have been Dany imprisoning Jon and Tyrion and ruthlessly cementing her rule, I'm happy enough with the ending we got. The real ending was last week's episode, which (unlike many people here) I thought was excellent.

Contrary to those who think they needed another season or two or three to tell the story, I think the biggest mistake they made was splitting what was probably meant to be a single season in half with a 2 year gap between them. I blame HBO rather B&W for this. They love dragging out the final seasons of their shows.

Arbitrary

Drumpot wrote: »

I enjoyed that.

Thought Jons ending was very apt, he belonged with the Wildlings and he actually got exactly what he wanted. (once he realised he Dany had to be killed).

The king of the real north.

peddlelies

Pile of shíte.

Greyworm "It's not enough!!" After Bran appoints Tyrion hand as his punishment. Then it just cuts to another scene and nothing happens?

The Dothraki and unsullied were basically nodding to Jon Snow walking along on the docks after he murdered their queen. They even spent a solid 10 minutes on the stairs part showing how fired up they were, then nothing? After a decade or more of following her, they just accept it and move on? They don't try take the crown/city for themselves, or get revenge? Gee I guess instead they decided to sail somewhere else for whatever reason like nothing had happened.

Season 8 has been truly awful, it has soiled the entire show for me. The writers should hang their heads in shame. Big frown at how Bronn just appears at the end too. I see the IMDB rating is hovering around 5 for that episode, seems about right.

Edit: Forgot this

Tyrion - "Bran will you take the throne?"

Bran - "Why do you think I came?"

Ohhhh - How mysterious!

vetinari

Clareman wrote: »

So Jon starts the show wanting to join the Night Watch which is he able to join then get out of but his punishment is to go back to it? Grey Worm is happy out killing people that fought in another army rather than hold them as prisioners but he's ok keeping the killer of his queen as a priosioner as well as someone else who was sentenced to die.

I can buy this angle. A good portion of the army at Kings Landing were northeners who were loyal to Jon. It would have started an instant battle if Jon was executed without some sort of trial.


I did think the Dothraki and Unsullied got short thrift again from a story telling perspective though. Is it presumed that the Dothraki left with the Unsullied?

GSPfan

One little thing I seen someone mention earlier about Tyrian not being mentioned in the book Sam gives him.
I don’t think this is a spoiler for the books as it’s nothing to do with plot but Tyrian is described in very unflattering terms from a physical appearance in GRRM’s books so I think it was a light hearted attempt to save Tyrians feelings by saying he wasn’t mentioned. It’s also a very meta comment about the book not being finished just like in real life.

Tazzimus

vetinari wrote: »

I can buy this angle. A good portion of the army at Kings Landing were northeners who were loyal to Jon. It would have started an instant battle if Jon was executed without some sort of trial.


I did think the Dothraki and Unsullied got short thrift again from a story telling perspective though. Is it presumed that the Dothraki left with the Unsullied?

Except if you believe Greyworm from episode 4 I think, half the Dothraki and Unsullied survived, that's about 45k troops. The North had about 20k ish I think, Dany definitely had the bigger army of the two.

FunLover18

Nice to see Brienne return the favour and fill in Jaime's entry.

eric hoone

I liked Jon's ending with him going beyond the wall to take his uncle Benjens role it seemed

is_that_so

vetinari wrote: »

I can buy this angle. A good portion of the army at Kings Landing were northeners who were loyal to Jon. It would have started an instant battle if Jon was executed without some sort of trial.


I did think the Dothraki and Unsullied got short thrift again from a story telling perspective though. Is it presumed that the Dothraki left with the Unsullied?

They seemed to be still hanging around as the Unsullied set off on their ship and Jon headed for his.

Lionbacker

I feel quite sad for Dany in all this.
She happened to land in Westeros at the worst possible time, with Winter arriving & the army of the dead marching south beyond the wall. The resulting war in which Jon evetually persuades Dany to help with, direcly results in the deaths of 2 of her dragons, Jorah & Mellisande. Also not to mention Jon's lineage is discovered during all of that.

All this culminated in her descent into madness & ultimately her demise, all without getting to achieve her life's ambition of sitting on the iron throne.
If only the white walkers slept for another 10 years, everything could have worked so much better for her.

MisterAnarchy

Whatever about the faults in that episode and series 8 I must say that the scene with Jon reunited with Ghost brought a tear to my eye .

J. Marston

Lionbacker wrote: »

I feel quite sad for Dany in all this.
She happened to land in Westeros at the worst possible time, with Winter arriving & the army of the dead marching south beyond the wall. The resulting war in which Jon evetually persuades Dany to help with, direcly results in the deaths of 2 of her dragons, Jorah & Mellisande. Also not to mention it is that time where Jon's lineage is discovered.
All this culminated in her descent into madness & ultimately her demise, all without getting to achieve her life's ambition of sitting on the iron throne.
If only the white walkers slept for another 10 years, everything could have worked so much better for her.

The north are a miserable shower.

She brings her dragons, her Unsullied, her khalasar and gives them all the dragonglass from Dragonstone to save them from certain doom and what's her thanks? The cold shoulder from everyone and sass from Sansa.

They win the battle with her armies suffering heavy losses and she loses her closest friend. What's the reaction? "Well done, Jon!"

Fire and blood was right, Dany girl.

shrewdness

Thought Jon's real lineage would have played a bigger part in the end. Seems like that was really just a tool to get Dany to feel a bit more paranoid, and for Jon to question if she is the right leader. But then if he was presumed to be a better leader, as Tyrion and Varys believed, it didn't come to light when all's said and done.

Foxtrol

So that’s it all over. Having slept on it I’m satisfied, which is generally a good sign for a finale. It tied up things, with parts great, others fine, others poor. I learned halfway through Lost to not expect answers to everything and that not everything from earlier in shows will play a part in the endgame and I feel this has helped me to avoid a lot of frustration some are feeling, always seeming worse in shows with fantasy elements.

One thing I really struggle with is the Unsullied and Dothraki holding Jon prisoner post the death of Dany, especially given the new emo Grey Worm. Thought it would have made much more sense for him to escape KL before they notice she is dead and then return with the leaders of the other houses to negotiate for Tyrion and KL. It would make Jon accepting a return to the Wall a bigger ‘punishment’ as part of the peace deal.

After thinking on it I understand more how the Bran and Sansa endings work, but to make it easier they needed a few additional pieces of disagreement from the other heads of the houses. Most of those heads are new to their role and their houses are extremely weak, so an alliance under one very knowledgeable king, that isn’t power-hungry, would be beneficial to all. Also, between her experience, alliances, and how little the north would bring to the table in an alliance, I feel Sansa could have made a much stronger case to be given independence.

During the episode Tyrion much more eloquently restated most of my feelings from the thread for last week’s episode regarding Dany’s turn. I don’t understand how some here are surprised by Jon struggling to kill Dany, he has always been a man of duty along with a man who struggled to hurt the ones he loved.

I want to say the season needed more time, but I fear that time wouldn’t have been spent wisely. The show gave me so much joy, however with the last 2 seasons coming closer to a normal level TV show, with amazing production. I know this understandably leaves a bitter taste in the mouths of some, but I’ll look back on it fondly.

And it really didn't make sense for Varys to be so full of contempt, he'd betray her and go for Jon. That's the sort of thing that takes more time.

Foxtrol

J. Marston wrote: »

If only they had done season 8 as build-up to and blow off to the battle with the Night King and season 9 as the battle for the throne.

Instead they wedged the lot into 6 episodes.

Wouldn't have given them that much extra time, but agree that 2 center points in one short season destroyed focus.

Take out the necessary zombie quest from season 7 and have the battle for winterfell as the finale. Do 6 episodes in season 8 dealing with the fallout and KL.

I think that the Jon/Dany love story was supposed to be central to the ending/story. They were supposed to be properly in love.
Jon being a Targaryen and having a claim was supposed to sort of tear them apart.
Dany was supposed to be broken hearted that Jon no longer wanted her and turned mad queen.
Jon was probably supposed to be devastated about having to kill her.
I think thats kind of what they were going for.

Unfortunately, I just don't think that any viewer felt any sort of emotion to that love story. Its something that just wasn't developed enough for the viewer to be invested in.

If they had of built the relationship a bit more, gotten married and Jon somehow made her pregnant and then had to kill her, I imagine that would have made for a very sad, emotional ending.

The way it turned out though, I felt nothing. It was like he was just a bit relieved to get rid of his psychotic missus.

Foxtrol

Lionbacker wrote: »

I feel quite sad for Dany in all this.
She happened to land in Westeros at the worst possible time, with Winter arriving & the army of the dead marching south beyond the wall. The resulting war in which Jon evetually persuades Dany to help with, direcly results in the deaths of 2 of her dragons, Jorah & Mellisande. Also not to mention it is that time where Jon's lineage is discovered.
All this culminated in her descent into madness & ultimately her demise, all without getting to achieve her life's ambition of sitting on the iron throne.
If only the white walkers slept for another 10 years, everything could have worked so much better for her.

Sad but it was a demise of her own making. She went from nothing to ruling Slavers Bay in Essos and, despite what her advisers told her, that wasn't enough for her, she wanted what she believed she was entitled to in Westeros.