Changing career help?

emilymemily

I am a qualified teacher, I have an undergrad in Fine art and a recognised postgrad in teaching, I have years of experience teaching adults, elderly, young children, teenagers and special needs. Im professional, empathetic, considerate, very knowledgeable in my subject area and love working with people, im inclusive, honest and hardworking.

I have been casually subbing a long time but have had nothing stable, ive been messed around by schools and education departments and centers - Offered jobs only for them to give the job to somebody else known to the employer and given no apology or explanation, called into work only to find out they double booked subs and told to go home, offered a position only for the position to change last minute and hours reduced and no work and no pay over Summer and holidays. Its a nightmare. I have applied to over 10 teaching positions in the last couple of weeks and haven't been contacted for a single interview. I cant keep this up any longer.

Ive applied to administration jobs, receptionist jobs, jobs in shops, cafes, hotels and get nothing. I had one interview a few months ago but one look at my cv, they questioned why I had put so much time and effort into pursuing art, teaching and working with young people to change paths now? Told me I should continue to pursue this, when I explained my experience of teaching and difficulty in securing full time roles adding all the skills ive gained from my teaching and educational experience which are transferable to the job I was interviewing for, they didnt want to know, said id be better off to stay on that path. I feel like im pigeon holed by employers.

I come from a very working class family, I was entitled to all the grants to attend college and thought that by going to college I was bettering myself and giving myself a chance of getting out of poverty, how wrong was I. No employer will give me a chance because of my degrees and teaching experience. Maybe its a case of them thinking I will leave the job if a better position came up and see me as unreliable in that way but its frustrating.

Ive applied to art galleries as I have a Fine art degree but apparently theyre looking for years of gallery experience and a masters in museum practice and management - or none of that as long as you know someone in charge. - The masters still wont guarantee a job.

I ran childrens art class's for a couple of years to add to my cv but the cost of insurance, rent and art materials on top of it all meant I was losing money.

I worked in Summer camps but this option isnt feasible long term, also, similarly to subbing, I was messed around by managements so much it made the experience not worth it and pay was very low. I can see why these jobs are aimed towards teenagers and young people who dont have responsibilities and just want a bit of work experience.

Ive thought about going back to college to do a masters but dont know what I would do? Im terrible at maths so thats not an option but as far as I can tell, almost anything outside maths/science related areas are dead ends and securing any work involves a great amount of luck and nepotism.

I considered a Fetac level 5 or 6 but again, in what? Most are aimed at students progressing to third level, a degree in most subject areas seems to be the minimum requirement, and not just any degree will do, it has to be a specific degree tailored specifically to that subject area, even if skills from other degrees are transferable, it doesnt matter to employers, they want to see that youve dedicated 4 years + of your life to that specific subject.

Ive considered childcare and special needs but its very similar to teaching, I know from working in schools, SNA's and childcare assistants are struggling to get secure, permanent positions and are often covering sick leaves, maternity leaves and day to day cover.

I then considered doing a fetac 5 or 6 in beauty therapy, ive always been obsessed with beauty products, skin care, makeup, I go for facials and have always considered doing a massage therapy course but im not sure if jobs prospects in this area are good either?



Can I have some suggestions or advice? Im lost, I dont know what to do anymore and feeling very disillusioned and worn down.

stefanovich

emilymemily wrote: »

I am a qualified teacher, I have an undergrad in Fine art and a recognised postgrad in teaching, I have years of experience teaching adults, elderly, young children, teenagers and special needs. Im professional, empathetic, considerate, very knowledgeable in my subject area and love working with people, im inclusive, honest and hardworking.

I have been casually subbing a long time but have had nothing stable, ive been messed around by schools and education departments and centers - Offered jobs only for them to give the job to somebody else known to the employer and given no apology or explanation, called into work only to find out they double booked subs and told to go home, offered a position only for the position to change last minute and hours reduced and no work and no pay over Summer and holidays. Its a nightmare. I have applied to over 10 teaching positions in the last couple of weeks and haven't been contacted for a single interview. I cant keep this up any longer.

Ive applied to administration jobs, receptionist jobs, jobs in shops, cafes, hotels and get nothing. I had one interview a few months ago but one look at my cv, they questioned why I had put so much time and effort into pursuing art, teaching and working with young people to change paths now? Told me I should continue to pursue this, when I explained my experience of teaching and difficulty in securing full time roles adding all the skills ive gained from my teaching and educational experience which are transferable to the job I was interviewing for, they didnt want to know, said id be better off to stay on that path. I feel like im pigeon holed by employers.

I come from a very working class family, I was entitled to all the grants to attend college and thought that by going to college I was bettering myself and giving myself a chance of getting out of poverty, how wrong was I. No employer will give me a chance because of my degrees and teaching experience. Maybe its a case of them thinking I will leave the job if a better position came up and see me as unreliable in that way but its frustrating.

Ive applied to art galleries as I have a Fine art degree but apparently theyre looking for years of gallery experience and a masters in museum practice and management - or none of that as long as you know someone in charge. - The masters still wont guarantee a job.

I ran childrens art class's for a couple of years to add to my cv but the cost of insurance, rent and art materials on top of it all meant I was losing money.

I worked in Summer camps but this option isnt feasible long term, also, similarly to subbing, I was messed around by managements so much it made the experience not worth it and pay was very low. I can see why these jobs are aimed towards teenagers and young people who dont have responsibilities and just want a bit of work experience.

Ive thought about going back to college to do a masters but dont know what I would do? Im terrible at maths so thats not an option but as far as I can tell, almost anything outside maths/science related areas are dead ends and securing any work involves a great amount of luck and nepotism.

I considered a Fetac level 5 or 6 but again, in what? Most are aimed at students progressing to third level, a degree in most subject areas seems to be the minimum requirement, and not just any degree will do, it has to be a specific degree tailored specifically to that subject area, even if skills from other degrees are transferable, it doesnt matter to employers, they want to see that youve dedicated 4 years + of your life to that specific subject.

Ive considered childcare and special needs but its very similar to teaching, I know from working in schools, SNA's and childcare assistants are struggling to get secure, permanent positions and are often covering sick leaves, maternity leaves and day to day cover.

I then considered doing a fetac 5 or 6 in beauty therapy, ive always been obsessed with beauty products, skin care, makeup, I go for facials and have always considered doing a massage therapy course but im not sure if jobs prospects in this area are good either?



Can I have some suggestions or advice? Im lost, I dont know what to do anymore and feeling very disillusioned and worn down.

You just need a chance to prove yourself. What I have found is that lots of people have talents they were unaware of. You just need to get yourself in the door of a good company.

Going back to education can be a good option but I think you need a job.

What about working in an office environment. Procurement or logistics?

emilymemily

stefanovich wrote: »

You just need a chance to prove yourself. What I have found is that lots of people have talents they were unaware of. You just need to get yourself in the door of a good company.

Going back to education can be a good option but I think you need a job.

What about working in an office environment. Procurement or logistics?

Ive applied to office work but not getting the jobs. I can apply for the jobs till im blue in the face but cant make the employers hire me. My lack of trying/applying to different positions isnt the issue. Im doing everything in my power.

stefanovich

emilymemily wrote: »

Ive applied to office work but not getting the jobs. I can apply for the jobs till im blue in the face but cant make the employers hire me. My lack of trying/applying to different positions isnt the issue. Im doing everything in my power.

Could you get someone to look at your CV? Maybe there are issues there?

I'm sure you're a beauty but just looking the part can help sometimes. Put on nice clothes and get a nice haircut.

Are you okay with a computer? You need to keep going and do not give up.

There are a lot of idiots out there who like employing other idiots. There are also nice genuine people who will give other's a chance.

emilymemily

stefanovich wrote: »

Could you get someone to look at your CV? Maybe there are issues there?

I'm sure you're a beauty but just looking the part can help sometimes. Put on nice clothes and get a nice haircut.

Are you okay with a computer? You need to keep going and do not give up.

There are a lot of idiots out there who like employing other idiots. There are also nice genuine people who will give other's a chance.

Yes I have had my cv checked by an employment advisor, I had the principal of the school I worked in check my applications for feedback and I contacted an interview coach.



I can use a computer, its a basic requirement for any teaching position and would have had to have computer skills to complete both an art course and a teaching course. I regularly use power point, excel, Microsoft word, interactive white board etc.

When going for an interview I dress appropriately and professionally. I am clean and take care of my appearance.

stefanovich

emilymemily wrote: »

Yes I have had my cv checked by an employment advisor, I had the principal of the school I worked in check my applications for feedback and I contacted an interview coach.



I can use a computer, its a basic requirement for any teaching position and would have had to have computer skills to complete both an art course and a teaching course. I regularly use power point, excel, Microsoft word, interactive white board etc.

When going for an interview I dress appropriately and professionally. I am clean and take care of my appearance.

You sound like you'd be an asset to any company.

Just keep going and don't give up. I know this doesn't sound like good advice but if you give up you have 0 chance. Not sure why people are turning you down, must be tough.

Have you tried a recruitment agency? Maybe you could get your foot in the door somewhere.

emilymemily

stefanovich wrote: »

You sound like you'd be an asset to any company.

Just keep going and don't give up. I know this doesn't sound like good advice but if you give up you have 0 chance. Not sure why people are turning you down, must be tough.

Have you tried a recruitment agency? Maybe you could get your foot in the door somewhere.

Thanks, I dont know why either, im so despondent now, just dont know what to do anymore. I am tired of filling out essay length applications that wont even be read. Im going around in circles.

Would you or anyone else have information on recruitment agencies and how I can get in touch with one?

stefanovich

emilymemily wrote: »

Thanks, I dont know why either, im so despondent now, just dont know what to do anymore. I am tired of filling out essay length applications that wont even be read. Im going around in circles.

Would you or anyone else have information on recruitment agencies and how I can get in touch with one?

There should be loads. Depends on where you live. I think this could be a really good solution for you.

OMM 0000

You're all over the place.

Nothing wrong with that, but let's try to fix it.

Do you want to be a teacher?

Do you just want a stable job, any job?

Do you want to work in an art gallery or museum?

Do you want to run a children's art class?

Do you want to go back to college?

Do you want to work in childcare?

Do you want to work in the special needs area?

Do you want to work in the beauty industry?

I don't expect you to answer these questions, but you can see why I asked them right? It seems you want to do everything, but also want to do nothing.

Let's start at the beginning.

What do you actually want to do?

emilymemily

OMM 0000 wrote: »

You're all over the place.

Nothing wrong with that, but let's try to fix it.

Do you want to be a teacher?

Do you just want a stable job, any job?

Do you want to work in an art gallery or museum?

Do you want to run a children's art class?

Do you want to go back to college?

Do you want to work in childcare?

Do you want to work in the special needs area?

Do you want to work in the beauty industry?

I don't expect you to answer these questions, but you can see why I asked them right? It seems you want to do everything, but also want to do nothing.

Let's start at the beginning.

What do you actually want to do?

I want to teach art - thats what im trained to do, I also need to be able to financially support myself, job security is a necessity. Ideally id teach special needs as I loved it.

As much as I want to teach, I cant get a job in this area so I need to look at other options.

What potential jobs could I be looking at with an art degree - Museum/Gallery work - cant get a job in this area either.

So I started looking at roles related to my experience - Sna/childcare - Again this option isnt feasible and leaves me back at square one - Insecure employment and open to being messed around by schools.

Desperation for a job - any job meant I applied to cafe's, shops, office work etc - we all need to work and earn a living, even if that means moving away from what im trained in.

This didnt work out, it seems like my level of education or area of study is off putting for employers.

So I started looking at other options, what am I interested in, something I would be good at - Beauty therapy, would it get me a job? I dont know, so might not be worth pursuing.

I would want to go back to college if it opened up opportunities for me. I dont want to make an expensive mistake and finish the course to be in the same position.

OMM 0000

OK - so your dream job is to teach art to people with special needs?

I don't know this area well, but it sounds like something a volunteer does, or something a very few lucky folk do for payment.

Are you single?

How old are you?

What are your commitments?

Professional cert in financial advice.
Multiple choice exams.... Two modules and you get the certificate. Do 6 and it's a professional diploma, qualified financial advisor.

Just a suggestion....but it's a route to getting an actual real job without too much effort.
https://www.lia.ie/courses/professional-certificate-in-financial-advice

OMM 0000

I'm not criticising you being helpful, but "working in an art gallery" vs. "working as a financial advisor".

****... that's a depressing alternative.

emilymemily

OMM 0000 wrote: »

OK - so your dream job is to teach art to people with special needs?

I don't know this area well, but it sounds like something a volunteer does, or something a very few lucky folk do for payment.

Are you single?

How old are you?

What are your commitments?

Art teachers are employed in special needs schools, post primary schools, employed by ETB's payed 45 euro an hour working 22hours a week in adult education centers, prisons, special needs facilities, mental health facilities, colleges, adult education, Further ed settings, Youthreach among many other placements. It's a taught subject like any other on the education curriculum.

r93kaey5p2izun

Have you tried applying to the civil service?

Nobelium

emilymemily wrote: »

I want to teach art - thats what im trained to do, I also need to be able to financially support myself, job security is a necessity. Ideally id teach special needs as I loved it.

As much as I want to teach, I cant get a job in this area so I need to look at other options.

What potential jobs could I be looking at with an art degree - Museum/Gallery work - cant get a job in this area either.

So I started looking at roles related to my experience - Sna/childcare - Again this option isnt feasible and leaves me back at square one - Insecure employment and open to being messed around by schools.

Desperation for a job - any job meant I applied to cafe's, shops, office work etc - we all need to work and earn a living, even if that means moving away from what im trained in.

This didnt work out, it seems like my level of education or area of study is off putting for employers.

So I started looking at other options, what am I interested in, something I would be good at - Beauty therapy, would it get me a job? I dont know, so might not be worth pursuing.

I would want to go back to college if it opened up opportunities for me. I dont want to make an expensive mistake and finish the course to be in the same position.

No 1 thing to decide is are you tied to living in a particular area ?
That will determine everything else.

If you are not it's much easier. . .the world is your oyster, and you can go to wherever your interests are in demand and further opportunities / training / experience is available.

If you are tied to staying locally, you'll have to cut your cloth to suit the employment available nearhand, and then work out what you need to get a job nearby, and then work towards that, even if it takes a few years. Don't worry about a "career" but rather a locally available job you'd be happy doing for a few years, and then you can always get another one or see where it goes.

OMM 0000

emilymemily wrote: »

Art teachers are employed in special needs schools, post primary schools, employed by ETB's payed 45 euro an hour working 22hours a week in adult education centers, prisons, special needs facilities, mental health facilities, colleges, adult education, Further ed settings, Youthreach among many other placements. It's a taught subject like any other on the education curriculum.

OK.

So what are you doing wrong?

Why can't you get one of these jobs?

I'm not giving out, just curious what the current barrier is.

stefanovich

Augeo wrote: »

Professional cert in financial advice.
Multiple choice exams.... Two modules and you get the certificate. Do 6 and it's a professional diploma, qualified financial advisor.

Just a suggestion....but it's a route to getting an actual real job without too much effort.
https://www.lia.ie/courses/professional-certificate-in-financial-advice

Just illustrates what a scam that job is.

Mrs OBumble

Write yourself a dumbed-down CV to use for admin and retail work. Say you went to college - but not what you did. Use small words. Describe your duties in simple terms. Make yourself look like the person they want to hire.

To find teaching jobs - you need to be networking, not just submitting applications. What are you doing on this front?

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Write yourself a dumbed-down CV to use for admin and retail work. Say you went to college - but not what you did. Use small words. Describe your duties in simple terms. Make yourself look like the person they want to hire.

You’re joking, yea?

stefanovich

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

To find teaching jobs - you need to be networking, not just submitting applications. What are you doing on this front?

Networking? My god that sounds like an awful nepotistic career choice.

OMM 0000

stefanovich wrote: »

Networking? My god that sounds like an awful nepotistic career choice.

I agree with Mrs OBumble.

You have to make your jobs / promotions happen.

Waiting for them to be handed to you is a high risk strategy.

If the OP could somehow become "friends" with the head of art in a special needs school, it'd only be a matter of time before she could get a job there.

Nobelium

stefanovich wrote: »

Just illustrates what a scam that job is.

Isn't a scam. How well and how ethical someone decides to do that job isn't related to the training.

stefanovich

Nobelium wrote: »

Isn't a scam. How well and how ethical someone decides to do that job isn't related to the training.

True true.

stefanovich

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I agree with Mrs OBumble.

You have to make your jobs / promotions happen.

Waiting for them to be handed to you is a high risk strategy.

If the OP could somehow become "friends" with the head of art in a special needs school, it'd only be a matter of time before she could get a job there.

Jobs for the girls. Make sure you brown nose your way into teaching. It'll set you up for a life in politics.

emilymemily

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Theres no 'head of art' in any school, just like theres no head of English, or head of Maths or History. Teachers are employed by a panel of people from the ETB and includes the Principal of the school or Coordinator of the education center.
Unfortunately in teaching, its all about who you know, being related to or friends with the Principal is a sure way of getting a teaching job. Ive no doubt this is a contributory factor to the current teaching crisis. What im finding is, in my own experience this is common across the board, no matter the sector, nepotism is the only way to get a foot in most places.

stefanovich

emilymemily wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Theres no 'head of art' in any school, just like theres no head of English, or head of Maths or History. Teachers are employed by a panel of people from the ETB and includes the Principal of the school or Coordinator of the education center.
Unfortunately in teaching, its all about who you know, being related to or friends with the Principal is a sure way of getting a teaching job. Ive no doubt this is a contributory factor to the current teaching crisis. What im finding is, in my own experience this is common across the board, no matter the sector, nepotism is the only way to get a foot in most places.

So go find something else to do. Search for recruitment agencies in your area and ask them for advice.

emilymemily

stefanovich wrote: »

So go find something else to do. Search for recruitment agencies in your area and ask them for advice.

This is the point of the current thread - changing career. I am trying to find something else to do.

I have had a meeting with a local guidance counselor but found her useless, I explained how I needed a job - any job, any wanted information on how I could transfer my skills into another environment and what would be my best move, in terms of job security and finding something I would be even semi suited to - ie, nothing involving maths and something people orientated.
She was fixated on the art degree and sent me emails for short term - non paid or little paid artistic projects. Its frustrating, its like my degrees are holding me back, no body can see past them.

I will make an appointment with a local requirement agency, thank you.

Nobelium

emilymemily wrote: »

This is the point of the current thread - changing career. I am trying to find something else to do.

I have had a meeting with a local guidance counselor but found her useless, I explained how I needed a job - any job, any wanted information on how I could transfer my skills into another environment and what would be my best move, in terms of job security and finding something I would be even semi suited to - ie, nothing involving maths and something people orientated.
She was fixated on the art degree and sent me emails for short term - non paid or little paid artistic projects. Its frustrating, its like my degrees are holding me back, no body can see past them.

I will make an appointment with a local requirement agency, thank you.

No harm to them, but If a career guidance Councillor was good at finding jobs they wouldn't be one ...

Blaizes

Bite the bullet and go abroad is my advice. Loads of jobs in UK, Middle East, South East Asia etc. Recruitment system for teachers is a mess here. Am a post primary sub and totally get what you are saying, If you don’t have ties and still want to teach why stay here ? Abroad you’ll have a proper job, job security, paid holidays, regular money etc. When settled you could even consider adding another teaching subject. Loads of agencies and schools looking for teachers you’ll be snapped up. Much better than being in situation you are now currently in as you are in no mans land and just can’t move forward with your life.

stefanovich

stefanovich wrote: »

Just illustrates what a scam that job is.

Indeed, most if them are essentially desk based sales reps. Decent cash though all considered.

knipex

emilymemily wrote: »

This is the point of the current thread - changing career. I am trying to find something else to do.

I have had a meeting with a local guidance counselor but found her useless, I explained how I needed a job - any job, any wanted information on how I could transfer my skills into another environment and what would be my best move, in terms of job security and finding something I would be even semi suited to - ie, nothing involving maths and something people orientated.
She was fixated on the art degree and sent me emails for short term - non paid or little paid artistic projects. Its frustrating, its like my degrees are holding me back, no body can see past them.

I will make an appointment with a local requirement agency, thank you.

It sounds like your CV is built and written around your first desire, a job teaching art.

Unfortunately that CV isn't going to come across well for an admin role.

You need multiple versions of your CV specifically tailored to the sector \ industry that you are applying to.

The principle liked your CV because its designed for teaching positions and that's what they would be recruiting for.

Also bear in mind that you are effectively starting your career again so will have to get a relatively junior position and build up.

whoopsadaisy

Difficult situation. My advice first of all would be to alter your CV to the most basic version, so it's targetting a wide audience. Remove any opening paragraphs that detail your love of art or teaching - if you're applying for a receptionist or a retail position, having a CV where your education, career history and interests / skills / hobbies are all directed in one field, and that field is irrelevant to the job you're applying, employers are going to overlook you.

Once you've stripped it down to the basic then you can tailor it to different fields. Make a list of the types of jobs or industries you want to apply to, then make a slightly different CV for each one, highlighting relevant skills / experiences and why you want to work in that area.

Add a covering note with each application. Don't make it long - just why you're interested and why you think you might be a good candidate. Short and sweet.

OK, now the CV is done, you need to find the right jobs. Where are you looking? I tend to find irishjobs and jobs.ie the best. LinkedIn and Indeed are the worst culprits for leaving up old ads - if an ad is still live 30+ days, yes do still apply because you never know, but be realistic here, you could be wasting your time, so keep refreshing the job ads and applying for the most recent, relevant ones.

Upload your basic CV to the job databases - irishjobs, Monster, Indeed. Recruiters can find you this way. Change your LinkedIn tagline to seeking new opportunities and connect with recruiters

On topic of recruiters, if you see a job ad you're interested in through an agency, get in touch with them, call them. Explain your situation and ask for advice - what industries are busy at the moment? Where do you think I would have the best luck? Ask them for CV advice too.

I wouldn't rule out temping either as this could get you early office / administration experience that would then stand to you on your CV. Most of the larger agencies do temp positions.

Mrs OBumble

emilymemily wrote: »

Unfortunately in teaching, its all about who you know, being related to or friends with the Principal is a sure way of getting a teaching job. Ive no doubt this is a contributory factor to the current teaching crisis. What im finding is, in my own experience this is common across the board, no matter the sector, nepotism is the only way to get a foot in most places.

It's a good start that you know this.

Now get busy applying the information to getting yourself employed.

Start with your classmates / friends from teacher-school (whereever that was for you). Tell them that you're looking and specifically ask them to let you know of anything they hear about - and when they do, ask them to put in a good word for you. Ditto friends of the family, the people from any volunteer activities you've don't, etc. Anyone even might be in a position to help.

And be careful that you specifically ask them to help. People are mighty thick, and won't join the dots and let you know just because they know you're looking, they need to be clearly asked, and then reminded every few months.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

You’re joking, yea?

Nope. Not even slightly. I have three versions 1) proper professional CV, 2) senior admin CV (uses big words, and a few job titles), and 3) really basic one pager: no job titles and very basic job descriptions make with short words.

All tell the truth. But do it in ways that the target audience will understand. Think "made changes on the computer" vs "analysed requirements for order-entry system re-engineering, worked with team to implement a solution that gave a 50% performance increase"

stefanovich

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Start with your classmates / friends from teacher-school (whereever that was for you). Tell them that you're looking and specifically ask them to let you know of anything they hear about - and when they do, ask them to put in a good word for you. Ditto friends of the family, the people from any volunteer activities you've don't, etc. Anyone even might be in a position to help.

Are people in the profession actually okay with this? Why can't it be changed?

spurious

Unfortunately, there are next to no real jobs in teaching at the moment, as the OP and many others find every year.

The perception out there is that you get a 30 grand job straight out of college, get home at 4 every day and have four months off. The reality is much more like the OP describes, being messed about, short term, low paying contracts and always someone else getting the job.

Many schools in the country have only one Art teacher. Even if all of them had two, that's still a pool of well under 2000 jobs. How many are doing the teaching course every year? People in situ are not retiring at a quick enough rate to absorb all the new teachers, not just in Art, but in almost all subjects. With places like Hibernia pumping out teachers to beat the band, there is a crazy over-supply.

OP, I think it would be well worth your while going to a recruitment agency. They will know what is out there and there may well be an opening that you are ideal for.

OMM 0000

I think people should consider looking beyond Ireland. It's a small country.

There are all sorts of opportunities (e.g. art teacher) in Asia, etc.

If you've little or no attachments then the UK or Middle East should be considered if you want to teach art. If you've only one subject you can teach, especially art, you're in a very niche area. So, as you have found, prospects here will not be good.

I'd also rehash your CV. You're right, employers are going to think you'll only be biding your time for your "ideal job". The good news is that you should be able to find waiting staff roles. There's a severe lack of staff to fill these roles with effective full employment out there. So, as been said above, tailor your CV, galling as that may be, you might be intimidating hiring staff as it stands.

Finally, a post grad computer related could be the way to go. Computer programming is more a language than numbers.

Good luck.

LotharIngum

OP, I started out my main career as a teacher but I couldn't hack the non stop contact with the kids and then bloody homework and all the other crap you have to do at night. yes the holidays were great, but by God the rest would kill you. I easily did more hours than my wife who works in IT does, even though I left the school at 3pm most days. When I tell her this she laughs and thinks teachers don't work at all.
It was the evening work with teaching that sapped me. Trust me its a good thing you are getting out of it.

When I left school I went off to Spain and worked in holiday resort for the summer, then went to Italy and got a job in a factory. Then went to Greece and worked on a ferry. But I came back to Ireland when I met my wife. She is Irish and I was born in Germany, but came to Ireland when I was 10. I then resat my leaving cert and got into teaching through st pats. Got a job in a Dublin school handy enough after subbing for a year.

So one day I just decided I was leaving teaching and I got a job working laboring on a building site. That was great for a while, but winter came and I had enough of that too.


I then decided to go into marketing and it was such a good fit for me. I did a 6 month course in marketing and finance and got a job straight out of that, maybe paying half what I got as a teacher but I loved it. Soon enough, within 3 years the wages were far better than they were for teaching. The hours were less and the craic was far better. IVe been in that for about 12 or 13 years now and I think im just going to quit when I get to 15 years and go and live in Spain for a year and then after that travelling the world. All when the kids are in uni of course. I have to convince the other half of that, but I will win out

I decided a long time ago that toiling away in a job you don't like, or even if you like it, is just for the money to live and nothing else. And moving career is actually far easier than you think. I would have thought the moves I did were impossible, but when I tried it out it was so easy. Chin up and just do what you feel like doing and more importantly, change it if it isn't right for you. You'll be so much happier.

OMM 0000

Deleted User wrote: »

Computer programming is more a language than numbers.

I don't really agree with this.

Computer programming is the ability to think logically and creatively in an obsessively step by step way. And that's just for the basics. When you get to real-world software engineering, you start dealing with all sorts of design patterns which are very abstract.

One of the problems with 99%+ programming books is they just teach the basics. You still have years of study and practice ahead of you before you won't feel like a terrible programmer. Even then, most programmers are not very good, and for certain, most people either can't program, or will be very bad at it.

The reason computer science is often attached to maths departments is because the obsessive step by step thought process is required in both disciplines.

Mrs OBumble

stefanovich wrote: »

Are people in the profession actually okay with this? Why can't it be changed?

Who knows. But it's true in most every field.

Why should it be changed? I'd rather someone who comes with a recommendation than a randomly who can pull off a good interview. Either might be useless, but there's a lower chance with the recommended

stefanovich

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Who knows. But it's true in most every field.

Why should it be changed? I'd rather someone who comes with a recommendation than a randomly who can pull off a good interview. Either might be useless, but there's a lower chance with the recommended

This is not a normal recommendation that any employer would request though.

You are basically asking for people to make friends with other teachers so they can get into the club.

How about judging people based on their ability and performance rather than their ability to ingratiate and brown nose? This question is somewhat rhetorical as I know that performance is held in low regard in the public service.

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I don't really agree with this.

Computer programming is the ability to think logically and creatively in an obsessively step by step way. And that's just for the basics. When you get to real-world software engineering, you start dealing with all sorts of design patterns which are very abstract.

One of the problems with 99%+ programming books is they just teach the basics. You still have years of study and practice ahead of you before you won't feel like a terrible programmer. Even then, most programmers are not very good, and for certain, most people either can't program, or will be very bad at it.

The reason computer science is often attached to maths departments is because the obsessive step by step thought process is required in both disciplines.

It's notions like this that puts people off the IT industry.

Not every development job is at the cutting edge of technology.

A lot of development work is relatively straight-forward enhancements to existing systems and bug fixing. You don't need to be a genius or Bill Gates to do this grunt work which is every bit as vital to the industry.

Many people from other backgrounds (I know a guy with a history background) can switch to programming seamlessly.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Who knows. But it's true in most every field.

Why should it be changed? I'd rather someone who comes with a recommendation than a randomly who can pull off a good interview. Either might be useless, but there's a lower chance with the recommended

On the other hand, a lot of jobs come with the stipulation that canvassing will disqualify.

Your best friend could turn out to be a complete idiot in work. If you hire him or her, that leaves a bad impression on you as well.

LimeFruitGum

I have a few friends who went into teaching after college, some of them did manage to get out for the same reasons as OP. I ended up in a company years ago and bumped into a Science teacher from my school. She was there as a HR rep. I did a double-take when I first saw her in the canteen.

Is it remotely possible to add another subject to the mix, even if it was just up to Junior Cert level?

I have recently switched industries but it took me several months. I had to rewrite my CV to get seen; I had to strip out all the niche industry terms from the last 15 years and recast it for a new audience. Still the same STAR examples but expressed in a way that made sense to someone who never worked in my old industry.

OMM 0000

salonfire wrote: »

It's notions like this that puts people off the IT industry.

Not every development job is at the cutting edge of technology.

A lot of development work is relatively straight-forward enhancements to existing systems and bug fixing. You don't need to be a genius or Bill Gates to do this grunt work which is every bit as vital to the industry.

Many people from other backgrounds (I know a guy with a history background) can switch to programming seamlessly.

Design patterns are a basic aspect of software development.

They are not cutting edge.

If you do not know how to recognise design patterns, how can you expect to competently enhance existing code?

A huge part of software development is understanding what the programmers before you (who wrote the code you're staring at) were thinking.

This is one of the major problems with software development at the moment. People think the barrier to entry is easy (just read "Javascript in 24 Hours"!) and don't respect what a difficult skill proper software development is.

GalwayGrrrrrl

Have you looked at occupational therapy as a career? My mother is a retired art teacher and she always wished she’d been an OT instead. OTs work in different settings, hospitals, day centres, outpatient settings, and work with a variety of adults and children, mental and physical health difficulties etc. There were issues a few years ago with new graduates finding it hard to get intern placements so see if that’s improved but it could be a good side step career for you that would use your teaching and art talents. I work in a hospital that employs an OT assistant that is unqualified (supervised by an OT) so keep an eye out for that type of thing, network with your local hospital employees for opportunities.

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Design patterns are a basic aspect of software development.

They are not cutting edge.

If you do not know how to recognise design patterns, how can you expect to competently enhance existing code?

A huge part of software development is understanding what the programmers before you (who wrote the code you're staring at) were thinking.

This is one of the major problems with software development at the moment. People think the barrier to entry is easy (just read "Javascript in 24 Hours"!) and don't respect what a difficult skill proper software development is.

Nonsense.

Yes, it is difficult and only people with a particular logical way of thinking can work on it.

But to suggest you need to spend years on studying software engineering theory to get a job is simply not true.
A basic understanding of classes and Entities and Relationships will get you by.

Otherwise, how do you think people from a non-IT background can switch to it relatively quickly?

If you want to work at Google, your point is correct.

But for the more relatively basic applications - like you will find in a finance company for example - its perfectly manageable to maintain and enhance without all the frilly nonsense you mention about patterns.

With the demand for developers out there as well, any idiot can get a job in it quite frankly. Even by just reading Javascript in 24 Hours.
IT is a good choice with good salaries if you have the aptitude for it.

OMM 0000

salonfire wrote: »

Nonsense.

Yes, it is difficult and only people with a particular logical way of thinking can work on it.

But to suggest you need to spend years on studying software engineering theory to get a job is simply not true.
A basic understanding of classes and Entities and Relationships will get you by.

Otherwise, how do you think people from a non-IT background can switch to it relatively quickly?

If you want to work at Google, your point is correct.

But for the more relatively basic applications - like you will find in a finance company for example - its perfectly manageable to maintain and enhance without all the frilly nonsense you mention about patterns.

With the demand for developers out there as well, any idiot can get a job in it quite frankly. Even by just reading Javascript in 24 Hours.
IT is a good choice with good salaries if you have the aptitude for it.

Look, it's clear you don't know what you're talking about, so I'm not going to carry on with this ridiculous line of thought.

For the record I am a CTO in Japan, have previously worked in multiple countries at either a CTO or director of software engineering level, I have over 20 years IT experience, a masters in computer science, and I've hired hundreds of software developers, and managed hundreds of them over the past few years.

I understand you're entitled to give your opinion on things, but it's obvious you don't have any real understanding of software development.

You can have the last word on this as I'm not going to continue this conversation with you.

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I have over 20 years IT experience,

Funny enough, the longer someone is in IT and the higher up they are I do wonder how out of touch they are with the newer developments and requirements. Not saying that's true in your case.

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Look, it's clear you don't know what you're talking about, so I'm not going to carry on with this ridiculous line of thought.

For the record I am a CTO in Japan, have previously worked in multiple countries at either a CTO or director of software engineering level, I have over 20 years IT experience, a masters in computer science, and I've hired hundreds of software developers, and managed hundreds of them over the past few years.

I understand you're entitled to give your opinion on things, but it's obvious you don't have any real understanding of software development.

You can have the last word on this as I'm not going to continue this conversation with you.

Then you should know that the industry is full of people without degrees and masters as well then.

Just because you don't consider them as software engineers doesn't mean they aren't working away in programming and computing.